New Zealand world's most peaceful nation!

[Undesired Walrus]

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/03/new-zealand-rated-most-peaceful-us-83rd/?feat=home_headlines

Americans pining for a peaceful existence might consider moving to New Zealand, the most peaceful nation on Earth, according to the 2009 Global Peace Index released Tuesday by an Australian-based research group that counts former President Jimmy Carter, Ted Turner and the Dalai Lama among its endorsers.


US at 83rd, and UK at 35rd or something, citing crime and terrorism as the less peaceful qualities the two countries possess.

[IMST]

If you people keep calling America unpeaceful, we'll come over there and *********** kill you.

[Fnord]

How can New Zealand claim to be peaceful, when the War of the Rings was fought there?

Hmm?

:p

[Undesired Walrus]

I was relatively surprised that Somalia - consistently voted as the most dangerous nation on Earth - only came third or something from bottom, with Iraq topping the bottom.

[tomwaits]

How can you "top the bottom"?

[Cleon]

How can you "top the bottom"?

There are a bunch of websites, and a few forum members, who can help you figure it out.

[IMST]

How can you "top the bottom"?

You see, when two men love each other very much...

[shadron]

You see, when two men love each other very much...

I guess that that could lead to a peaceful environment, yes. ...uh, maybe?

The comments are outstandingly funny:


Get a grip. No, it is because we are left to clean up behind every liberal bleeding heart who appeases rogue regimes, and when payment comes due it is Americans who have to shed blood to protect those knuckle headed morons who think everyone in the world wants to sit in a circle with them singing campfire songs. How long would New Zealand last without the nations such as US, Britain, Australia, Japan, .Canada, that rally to the "peaceful" nation's defense?

I'd rather have freedom than be "peaceful" like some of the countries on the list. I've spent time in New Zealand and could tell you the main reason it is so peaceful but that wouldn't be politically correct.


It's pretty easy to be peaceful when you don't have to provide a national defense. Maybe they should average our military size over the number of countries that rely on us for their protection.


Your comment re Limbaugh is so ridiculous I don't even know where to start except to say that I doubt if the people who commit the gang violence that is the main cause of our violence problems in the U.S. ever listened to Limbaugh in their lives. Too bad they don't because they might live responsible, productive lives if they did.My only question is, where on the list is Brazil?

[dahduh]

It's not surprising New Zealand is the world's most peaceful nation: most of the population are sheep.

[Oliver]

99. http://www.visionofhumanity.org/images/gpi/countries/52/small/iran.gif (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/results/iran/2009/) Iran (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/results/iran/2009/)

.
.
.

141. http://www.visionofhumanity.org/images/gpi/countries/55/small/israel.gif (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/results/israel/2009/) Israel (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/results/israel/2009/)


Funny ****. (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/results/rankings/2009/) :popcorn1

[Oliver]

Wait, there`s more ...
Vision of Humanity (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/about/about.php)
Why peaceful NZ leads the world (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/news/136/why-peaceful-nz-leads-the-world/)
NZ the world's most peaceful nation: study (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/news/135/nz-the-worlds-most-peaceful-nation-study/)

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Psh, those kiwis just aren't important enough to invade :p .

As for the rest of them, isn't it obvious that we are protecting those Eurocommies with our military?

Also, I hear kiwis are the worst car drivers in the world, so that should balance things out.








But to be serious, congrats. Someone showed those Icelanders!

[dudalb]

Like anybody heard of New Zealand before Peter Jackson came along...

[lionking]

Seriously for a moment, an almost meaningless ranking table. And Jimmy Carter, Ted Turner and the Dalai Lama among the endorsers of the ranking organisation? That alone enough to destroy it's credibility.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I guess that that could lead to a peaceful environment, yes. ...uh, maybe?

The comments are outstandingly funny:

My only question is, where on the list is Brazil?

The whole list is here:
http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/results/rankings.php


The comment about nations like Canada and Japan making it possible for NZ to be so peaceful is pretty funny considering Canada ranks number 8 and Japan number 7. :covereyes

[BPSCG]

Any idiot could tell you the poll's invalid because there's no Planet X option. Maybe Jimmy Carter could get an idiot to help him out.

[Dorian Gray]

New Zealand also has no natural predators, so it's peaceful in the animal kingdom as well.

[stilicho]

Seriously for a moment, an almost meaningless ranking table. And Jimmy Carter, Ted Turner and the Dalai Lama among the endorsers of the ranking organisation? That alone enough to destroy it's credibility.

I was wondering about that too. Not to mention it's in the Washington Times.

Did you all know that Prison Planet says the US is a police state because you have to produce a driver's licence and registration when you're pulled over speeding through a school zone? I think it's somewhere in the Road To Tyranny series.

[stilicho]

Canada ranks number 8...

Awesome! We're at war and we rank number 8? So do we shoot up to -50 once we pull our troops out?

[BTMO]

We keep the civil war, gang, tribal and ethnic violence away from the tourist facing areas.

It just seems to make more sense that way...

[a_unique_person]

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/03/new-zealand-rated-most-peaceful-us-83rd/?feat=home_headlines



US at 83rd, and UK at 35rd or something, citing crime and terrorism as the less peaceful qualities the two countries possess.

A simple explanation.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/10/13/1191696214489.html



New Zealand women have the most sexual partners in the world, according to a global sex survey reported on Saturday.
They have an average of 20.4 sexual partners, according to a survey by condom-maker Durex - well above the global average of 7.3.

[Dorcas]

"according to a survey by condom-maker Durex"

righty-oh.

[BTMO]

A simple explanation.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/10/13/1191696214489.html

I'm not saying nothing.....

:bgrin:

[gumboot]

Like anybody heard of New Zealand before Peter Jackson came along...

I had... :boxedin:

[gumboot]

Awesome! We're at war and we rank number 8? So do we shoot up to -50 once we pull our troops out?

New Zealand's at war too...

[gumboot]

"according to a survey by condom-maker Durex"

righty-oh.

Durex's annual sexual wellness survey has long been regarded as a worthy piece of data.

What's particularly interesting is not only that NZ women have the most sexual partners of any women in the world, but that NZ is the only country in the world where women have more partners on average than men.

[Damien Evans]

New Zealand's at war too...

With who?

[Doctor Evil]

With who?

Hobbits

[Georg]

With who?

Taliban. As far as I know NZ troops are active in Afghanistan.

[lionking]

If 140 troops is defined as "at war" I suppose they are.:rolleyes:

[Georg]

I´d say they are. Especially when considering N.Z. only has a handful of citizens and sheep aren´t really that useful in a war as far as I know.....

[Kevin_Lowe]

Durex's annual sexual wellness survey has long been regarded as a worthy piece of data.

What's particularly interesting is not only that NZ women have the most sexual partners of any women in the world, but that NZ is the only country in the world where women have more partners on average than men.

Is that because your lesbians are unusually adventurous, or because your gays aren't getting around as much?

[Damien Evans]

Taliban. As far as I know NZ troops are active in Afghanistan.

Ah yes, now I remember...


They sent 10 men and a canoe over there, as the joke went at the time.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Is that because your lesbians are unusually adventurous, or because your gays aren't getting around as much?

Either way, great reason to migrate!

[IMST]

I´d say they are. Especially when considering N.Z. only has a handful of citizens and sheep aren´t really that useful in a war as far as I know.....

I'd say they serve a damn useful function if it keep the soldiers hands off the local population. Hearts and minds, people.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Awesome! We're at war and we rank number 8? So do we shoot up to -50 once we pull our troops out?

I think it's 8 because we only shoot at non-Canadians outside of the country. :covereyes

[MG1962]

I´d say they are. Especially when considering N.Z. only has a handful of citizens and sheep aren´t really that useful in a war as far as I know.....

You have never seen the All Blacks in action - Seriously you dont need an army when those guys are in a mood - which is fairly often

[Georg]

You have never seen the All Blacks in action - Seriously you dont need an army when those guys are in a mood - which is fairly often


Well, I wrote

I´d say they are.


which means I agree, so no argument here.
I haven´t seen the All Blacks in a live game in a stadium, but I spent 7 1/2 months in N.Z., so I do know/have seen a bit about them and again agree that they can be quite scary......

I'd say they serve a damn useful function if it keep the soldiers hands off the local population. Hearts and minds, people.


:D

[gumboot]

There's 157 New Zealand troops in Afghanistan at the moment plus the crew of a frigate (178) and the crew of our fleet supply ship (60) in the gulf.

Further, while we're comparing, let's not forget that Canada has over 8 times the population of NZ, and in the early days of Afghanistan when Canada weren't involved we had Special Forces troops operating in the country.

;)

[stilicho]

There's 157 New Zealand troops in Afghanistan at the moment plus the crew of a frigate (178) and the crew of our fleet supply ship (60) in the gulf.

Further, while we're comparing, let's not forget that Canada has over 8 times the population of NZ, and in the early days of Afghanistan when Canada weren't involved we had Special Forces troops operating in the country.

;)

I understand that. NZ has never shied away from a call to duty that I know of. It's been politically convenient to ignore our responsibility in Canada and Harper's minority government has to tread carefully among the folks who don't appreciate our duty to contribute. Don Cherry still commemorates each fallen soldier on HNIC:

http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/attachments/month_0903/don_cherry_RR00WrlLElFJ.jpg

It's not commonly recognised in our media, but ships such as HMCS Vancouver have been regularly attached to American battle groups such as that led by the John C Stennis since before 9/11. I can't find the exact dates, but Canadian vessels have been stationed in the Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea since Gulf One.

You can find the missions of various Canadian vessels in combat situations here: http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/cms/0/0_eng.asp

But, yeah, it's great to be peaceful and at war at the same time.

[six7s]

Psh, those kiwis just aren't important enough to invade :p .New Zealanders? Perhaps

However, Reagan et al were quite keen to retain New Zealand as a base for the US fleet

However, in 1985 David told Goliath to piss off... and Kiwis today overwhelmingly support the stance we adopted in 1985, even though it costs us dearly in terms of exports



www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/David_Lange
(http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/David_Lange)
International affairs

Lange made his name on the international stage with a long-running campaign against nuclear weapons. His government refused to allow nuclear-armed ships into New Zealand waters, a policy that New Zealand continues to this day. The policy, developing in 1985, had the effect of prohibiting United States Navy ships from visiting New Zealand. This displeased the United States and Australia: they regarded the policy as a breach of treaty obligations under ANZUS and as an abrogation of responsibility in the context of the Cold War against the Soviet bloc.

After consultations with Australia and after negotiations with New Zealand broke down, the United States announced that it would suspend its treaty obligations to New Zealand until the re-admission of United States Navy ships to New Zealand ports, characterising New Zealand as "a friend, but not an ally". The perceived "crisis" made front-page headlines for weeks in many American newspapers, and media quoted many United States Cabinet members as expressing a deep sense of "betrayal".

Erroneous claims sometimes suggest that David Lange withdrew New Zealand from ANZUS. His government's policy may have prompted the US's decision to suspend its ANZUS Treaty obligations to New Zealand, but that decision rested with the U.S. government, not with the New Zealand government.




OeHTziiFVx0
David Lange - Oxford Union Debate, 1 March 1985
There is an argument in defence of the possession of nuclear weapons which holds that the terror created by the existence of those weapons is in itself the fulfilment of a peaceful purpose: the argument advanced here tonight that that 50 million killed over four years by concerted war in a conventional sense in Europe, and the argument that somehow the existence of this mutually assured destruction phenomenon has since that time preserved this planet from destruction.

It is I think probably an example of northern hemisphere or European arrogance that we overlook now the 30 million people in this world who have died in wars since then - while we are apparently beset from the two super-powers by a system designed to have people stop killing each other.

I believe that the fear they inspire is not a justification for their existence.

INTERJECTION: Sir, the one area of the world do you refer to then? How have those casualties in that area defended by nuclear deterrence? Namely Europe. Not one of those 30 million lived in Europe.

Have you considered the proposition for one moment that that war, that cost those casualties might have entrenched within people the yearning for peace, the growth of democratic institutions, the accountability of political representatives, so that none wishes to wage in conventional or nuclear terms, any war? Why attribute to the presence of that awesome potential clash of firepower a stability which your politicians have been arguing they created?

You can't have it both ways! Either you are hailing a new, United Europe, matching to glory and to the exclusion of certain primary production from other countries …

Or you have it there simply because you have counterpoised this terrible means of destruction … I'm want to pass over ... yeah?


INTERJECTION: Mr Lange Sir, if I may address you as 'mate', perhaps. You talk about the quality of rationality. Now I've heard many reasons advanced for keeping American sailors out of ports - it usually has something to do with the honour of the women involved, or the property value of the ports. What I should like to know, sir, is why you don't do the honourable and the consistent thing, and pull out of the ANZUS alliance. For whether you are snuggling up to the bomb, or living in the peaceful shadow of the bomb, New Zealand benefits, sir. And that's the question with which we charge you. And that's the question with which we would like an answer, sir.

And I'm going to give it to you if you hold your breath just for a moment … I can smell the uranium on it as you lean forward!

I want to pass over here the preparations which are constantly being made for the winnable or even survivable nuclear war. I would ignore those and wholeheartedly embrace the logic of the unthinkable war if it could be established that the damage which could result from the collapse of that logic could be confined to nuclear weapon states. Unfortunately and demonstrably, it would not. We in New Zealand, you know, used to be able to relax a bit, to be able to think that we would sit comfortably while the rest of the world seared, singed, withered. We were enraptured!

[BTMO]

One of the big time wanks of all time, and one thing I *don't* like about living in NZ.

Fearmongering as policy, and luddite medievalism embraced as a status symbol.

Seriously - when was the last time a nuclear powered ship leaked *anything* radioactive in harbour, and when was the last time one was nuked in harbour?

[six7s]

One of the big time wanks of all time, and one thing I *don't* like about living in NZ.

Fearmongering as policy, and luddite medievalism embraced as a status symbol.Maybe you'd be happier to live in a country where tombstones are status symbols

The issue is peace... what is there to fear about that?

[paximperium]

Peace? Hah.

New Zealand's eugenics program against millions of their own population and wholesale slavery and slaughter is truly horrendous. Stripping them of all they are worth, herding them with dogs and slaughtering them in abattoirs. Murderers.

Free the Sheep!!! Rise up and destroy your oppressors!

[BTMO]

Maybe you'd be happier to live in a country where tombstones are status symbols

The issue is peace... what is there to fear about that?

NZs stand is on a propulsion system, and a particular type of weapon - which the US haven't carried on their ships for donkey's years.

At the same time, NZ maintains an armed force of its own - which is *just* as capable as killing as nuclear weapons, though admittedly in retail rather than wholesale volumes.

It isn't about "peace".

It is about fear of the nuclear bogeyman.

[six7s]

It is about fear of the nuclear bogeyman.Evidence?

[BTMO]

Evidence?

"And I'm going to give it to you if you hold your breath just for a moment … I can smell the uranium on it as you lean forward!"

[six7s]

Free the Sheep!!! Rise up and destroy your oppressors!The sheep are revolting!

0gEDUDmZkyc
Violence of the Lambs

[six7s]

Evidence?

"And I'm going to give it to you if you hold your breath just for a moment … I can smell the uranium on it as you lean forward!"Another windy day in Wellington, huh?

If you have anything other than flatulent waffle for consideration, please provide it

[BTMO]

You could also have a read through the appropriate legislation (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1987/0086/latest/DLM115116.html?search=ts_act_nuclear_resel&sr=1), which includes this line (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1987/0086/latest/DLM115147.html?search=ts_act_nuclear_resel): "Entry into the internal waters of New Zealand by any ship whose propulsion is wholly or partly dependent on nuclear power is prohibited."

I struggle to understand how a ban on a propulsion system is a peace initiative - especially when the *only* country to actually commit what I consider an act of war in NZ is quite welcome to bring their ships in...

[six7s]

I struggle to understand how a ban on a propulsion system is a peace initiativeTry thinking

[BTMO]

Try thinking

O.. kay.

A nuclear powered research icebreaker (ie, not a warship) is prohibited from entering NZs inshore waters, but a conventially powered French navy frigate (ie, a warship) isn't.

Explain that one to me.

Oh, and "try thinking" isn't an argument. Do try harder.

[six7s]

It isn't about "peace".Really?

JREF Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events » New Zealand world's most peaceful nation!

O.. kay...

:rolleyes:

[BTMO]

Really?

JREF Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events » New Zealand world's most peaceful nation!

O.. kay...

:rolleyes:

Sooo... keeping US ships out (and that is the practical effect of the ban) is the *one* defining thing that makes NZ the most peaceful nation in the world?

Oh, and you didn't address my other points...

[six7s]

Sooo... keeping US ships out (and that is the practical effect of the ban) is the *one* defining thing that makes NZ the most peaceful nation in the world?No... why you infer that is your problem

Oh, and you didn't address my other points...Because I think that they are both pointless and off-topic

[paximperium]

O.. kay.

A nuclear powered research icebreaker (ie, not a warship) is prohibited from entering NZs inshore waters, but a conventially powered French navy frigate (ie, a warship) isn't.

Explain that one to me.

Oh, and "try thinking" isn't an argument. Do try harder.
There are nuclear powered ice breakers?

[Toke]

There are nuclear powered ice breakers?

Yes, the soviet union had some. They may still be around.

[BTMO]

No... why you infer that is your problem

Because I think that they are both pointless and off-topic

In a discussion that includes NZs nuclear ship policy (which you introduced, I hasten to add) where I raised a question ON NZs nuclear ship policy is off-topic and pointless?

Wow.

Really.

[Toke]

I notice Denmark is high on the list too, not too surprising.
New Zealand and the nordic countries have similiar corruption levels too.

Guess it could be a nice place to live, the shenery is more varied than denmark.
Do you have black bread? (rugbrød)

[paximperium]

Yes, the soviet union had some. They may still be around.
Can I buy one? I really want a used Soviet era nuclear ice breaker coming into my nation's shores.

[BTMO]

I notice Denmark is high on the list too, not too surprising.
New Zealand and the nordic countries have similiar corruption levels too.

Guess it could be a nice place to live, the shenery is more varied than denmark.
Do you have black bread? (rugbrød)

You can get it at the supermarkets. It is more likely to be imported German pumpernickel than Scandinavian rugbrød though.

Interesting aside - when my Norwegian friend lived here, he used to import all sorts of interesting things to eat from home.

The wierdest one (that I developed a taste for) was brown cheese.

It tasted, looked and felt a bit like window putty, but there was just something about it that I liked...

[Toke]

Can I buy one? I really want a used Soviet era nuclear ice breaker coming into my nation's shores.
Yes, it would give a nice glow to the evenings.:D


They are still in use, you may be able to rent a trip on one.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_powered_icebreaker

[paximperium]

You can get it at the supermarkets. It is more likely to be imported German pumpernickel than Scandinavian rugbrød though.

Interesting aside - when my Norwegian friend lived here, he used to import all sorts of interesting things to eat from home.

The wierdest one (that I developed a taste for) was brown cheese.

It tasted, looked and felt a bit like window putty, but there was just something about it that I liked...
You should then try "Stinky tofu"...it is basically cheese made from soy. It smells like feet and taste scrumptious...like most cheeses.

[BTMO]

You should then try "Stinky tofu"...it is basically cheese made from soy. It smells like feet and taste scrumptious...like most cheeses.

I am philosophically opposed to soy.

It is used by hippies to make things that resemble food. I'd rather just eat food...

;)

I will keep an eye out for it!

[Toke]

You can get it at the supermarkets. It is more likely to be imported German pumpernickel than Scandinavian rugbrød though.

Interesting aside - when my Norwegian friend lived here, he used to import all sorts of interesting things to eat from home.

The wierdest one (that I developed a taste for) was brown cheese.
It tasted, looked and felt a bit like window putty, but there was just something about it that I liked...

It is called myseost (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunost), and is a absolutely disgusting, sweet cheese.
I throught you were a nice guy!:D

[BTMO]

It is called myseost (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunost), and is a absolutely disgusting, sweet cheese.
I throught you were a nice guy!:D

Yep, weird stuff alright - but ... strangely compelling!

[paximperium]

I am philosophically opposed to soy.

It is used by hippies to make things that resemble food. I'd rather just eat food...

;)

I will keep an eye out for it!
It's not really a hippie thing. I believe it is a traditional Chinese concoction that's used in their traditional dishes.

[Toke]

Yep, weird stuff alright - but ... strangely compelling!

Like trainwrecks.:D

[BTMO]

Like trainwrecks.:D

Exactly like train wrecks. Even down to the corpse goo...

[paximperium]

Do you Danes and New Zealanders often sit around and talk cheese and bread all day?:boxedin:

[Toke]

Perhaps you would love the swedish speciality Surströming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surstr%C3%B6mming). It´s fermented fish on a can.

I have never tasted it, it might be good, will try find it this weekend on a trip to Malmö.

[Toke]

Do you Danes and New Zealanders often sit around and talk cheese and bread all day?:boxedin:

Don´t you have patients to cut up, or something?:D

[paximperium]

Don´t you have patients to cut up, or something?:DNot really...sooooo...how's the weather? Want to talk guns or world war 2?

[BTMO]

Ooooh! Guns, please!

;)

I was going to mention one more Scandinavian "delicacy" that I have yet to try - and it may be something I *never* try - lutfisk.

Basically, it is fish that is steeped in lye until it turns to soap. Apparently, it isn't as appetising as it sounds...

[Toke]

Ooooh! Guns, please!

;)

I was going to mention one more Scandinavian "delicacy" that I have yet to try - and it may be something I *never* try - lutfisk.

Basically, it is fish that is steeped in lye until it turns to soap. Apparently, it isn't as appetising as it sounds...

One of the chief engineers on my ship tell horror stories of chrismas on the Copenhagen-Oslo ferry where he had to dress up and eat the stuff.

[Toke]

Not really...sooooo...how's the weather? Want to talk guns or world war 2?

I had a bb gun as a kid, and can tell the dangerous end on most firearms.:D

[SatanicSheep]

Not to take anything away from NZ, but this survey sucks.

It doesn't take into consideration a host of cultural differences between different countries and differing definitions of what constitutes peace.

Here's some of my personal observations. I live in South Korea which was ranked at 33. Gun ownership is indeed low here. Who needs guns when I just saw the neighborhood tank convoy roll past the artillery range which I can see from my office window. In the last month we have been threatened by a nuclear weapon test and seven long range missiles. We keep the peace by creating the most fortified border in the history of the world with hundreds of thousland of people striking a taekwondo pose staring across the world's biggest minefield.

We also have a low prison population thanks mainly to the fact that the major duties of the police here seem to include smoking and text messaging. Beating your wife black and blue or cold cocking a guy in the bar are seen as "not that big of a deal" and people tend to arrive at private monetary agreements to rectify legal problems. Even when something does make it to court if the defendant is reasonablly embrassed and humiliated then that is seen as punishment enough.

This survey just smacks of that "happiness index" crap.

[Toke]

It doesn't take into consideration a host of cultural differences between different countries and differing definitions of what constitutes peace.
Have you read through the parameters they use?

[six7s]

Not to take anything away from NZ, but this survey sucks.

It doesn't take into consideration a host of cultural differences between different countries and differing definitions of what constitutes peace.If you have more than mere anecdotes to define what constitutes peace, then please do so... I'm sure that the "international panel of experts including academics and leaders of peace institutions" will receive your insight and expertise with all due respect

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/about-gpi/overview.php

About the GPI

<snip/>

The index is composed of 23 qualitative and quantitative indicators from respected sources, which combine internal and external factors ranging from a nation’s level of military expenditure to its relations with neighbouring countries and the level of respect for human rights. These indicators were selected by an international panel of experts including academics and leaders of peace institutions.

As before, the GPI has been tested against a range of potential “drivers” or potential determinants of peace – including levels of democracy and transparency, education and material wellbeing. The GPI brings a snapshot of relative peacefulness among nations while continuing to contribute to an understanding of what factors help create or sustain more peaceful societies.

<snip/>

Defining peace

The concept of peace is notoriously difficult to define. The simplest way of approaching it is in terms of harmony achieved by the absence of war or conflict. Applied to nations, this would suggest that those not involved in violent conflicts with neighbouring states or suffering internal wars would have achieved a state of peace. This is what Johan Galtung defined as a “negative peace” - an absence of violence. The concept of negative peace is immediately intuitive and empirically measurable, and can be used as a starting point to elaborate its counterpart concept, “positive peace”: having established what constitutes an absence of violence, is it possible to identify which structures and institutions create and maintain peace?

<snip/>

Measuring states of peace

The difficulties in defining the concept of peace may partly explain why there have been so few attempts to measure states of peace across nations. This project has approached the task on two fronts – the first aim is to produce a scoring model and global peace index that ranks 144 nations by their relative states of peace using 23 indicators. The indicators have been selected as being the best available datasets that reflect the incidence or absence of peace<snip/>

[SatanicSheep]

Have you read through the parameters they use?

Yeah and they don't seem to be consitantly applied.

The criminality thing is one of the biggest flaws considering cultural differences in the perception of severity and enforcement of laws.

It seems that the survey was created with spurious association in mind.

Take Costa Rica for example. I'm sure they scored high because of their pacifist constitution and low military spending, but how does this negate the serious crime problem in that country?

[SatanicSheep]

If you have more than mere anecdotes to define what constitutes peace, then please do so... I'm sure that the "international panel of experts including academics and leaders of peace institutions" will receive your insight and expertise with all due respect

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/about-gpi/overview.php


I see. My empirical observations on "negative peace" are less than legitimate because you assume I am not an academic and/or a leader of a "peace institution."

They're trying to measure blood pressure with a ruler.

[George152]

New Zealand also has no natural predators, so it's peaceful in the animal kingdom as well.

That -was- true until the people arrived.

[six7s]

I see. My empirical observations on "negative peace" are less than legitimate because you assume I am not an academic and/or a leader of a "peace institution." Huh?

If you have anything worthy of being described as "empirical observation" then, please, post it

Meanwhile...

Your anecdotes are anecdotes


This survey just smacks of that "happiness index" crap.
Your constructive criticism is on a par with your 'happiness index' (whatever that is)

[SatanicSheep]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_National_Happiness

Similar imprecise indicators.

No I won't indulge you. You can argue with yourself about the differences between anecdotes and empiricism.

This survey is full of imprecise and incosistant indicators and you seem to be fine with it because it carries Jimmy Carter's (or whoever) seal of approval.

[six7s]

...you seem to be fine with it because ...Conclusions are something you jump to with ease, huh?

[SatanicSheep]

So then we're in agreement that ambiguous concepts like peace don't become more precise because of the endorsement of "international peace experts?"

[vIQleS]

NZs stand is on a propulsion system, and a particular type of weapon - which the US haven't carried on their ships for donkey's years.

At the same time, NZ maintains an armed force of its own - which is *just* as capable as killing as nuclear weapons, though admittedly in retail rather than wholesale volumes.

It isn't about "peace".

It is about fear of the nuclear bogeyman.

I wholeheartedly agree...

The kneejerk ban on anything 'noocleer' (including cheap, efficient power generation) is shortsighted, anacronistic, and just plain silly.

[six7s]

NZs stand is on a propulsion system, and a particular type of weapon - which the US haven't carried on their ships for donkey's years.

At the same time, NZ maintains an armed force of its own - which is *just* as capable as killing as nuclear weapons, though admittedly in retail rather than wholesale volumes.

It isn't about "peace".

It is about fear of the nuclear bogeyman.I wholeheartedly agree...Fascinating... and maybe even relevant... at least in another thread...

Or maybe I'm just too dim to join the dots to notice the relevance to this thread

Please, don't hesitate to explain if/how/where etc you (vIQleS and BTMO) are applying critical thinking skills to the GPI methodology (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/about-gpi/methodology.php) and/or rankings (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/results/rankings.php)


The kneejerk ban on anything 'noocleer' (including cheap, efficient power generation) is shortsighted, anacronistic, and just plain silly.

Please explain:
why you use the term "kneejerk" how the now 25-year-old legislation has proven to be shortsighted anachronistic just plain silly

[gumboot]

That -was- true until the people arrived.

More accurately, it only became true after humans arrived, assuming it was ever true, which is wasn't.

We've had plenty of predators, they're just not mammals. World's largest eagle, for one.

[vIQleS]

Please explain:
why you use the term "kneejerk"

Well - I wouldn't want to be off topic...

Kneejerk:

An unequovical and outright ban on anything nuclear? not just weapons, but engines and power generation as well...

"Nuclear = bad" = kneejerk.


Please explain:
how the now 25-year-old legislation has proven to be [LIST] shortsighted anachronistic just plain silly

I have no proof, but from my limited understanding of the topic:

Power shortages and global warming (preventing us - quite rightly - from using fossil fuels the way we used to).
Economic whatever - cheaper prices would be nice right now. If we'd invested in cheap efficient nuclear power early on, then we could have had functional and high-tech NPP by now.

Anachronistic?

I would have thought that was fairly self-explanatory:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ei=4XAxSrisEcygmAeW6oG1Bw&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=define%3Aanachronistic&spell=1

There's no reason to have a ban on nuclear engines or power in this day and age. Indeed, the fact that it is a 25-year-old law kind of proves my point... (when was the last time anyone sat down and said "hang on - do we really need this law?")

'Just plain silly' is a jugement based on my values and beliefs - I don't think I need to justify that... I'll retract it if that makes you feel better.

You know, in the 29 years and 36 months that I've lived in NZ, not one person has ever even tried to explain to me why we don't allow 'nuclear'...

Perhaps you can enlighten me: "Why not?"

[megaresp]

Do you have black bread? (rugbrød)
Sure...leave it out for a few days...it'll turn black.

[six7s]

Well - I wouldn't want to be off topic...

Kneejerk:

An unequovical and outright ban on anything nuclear? not just weapons, but engines and power generation as well...

"Nuclear = bad" = kneejerk.Please cite the relevant legislation that bans nuclear power

(I haven't found any searching at www.legislation.govt.nz (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/results.aspx?search=ts_act_nuclear_noresel))

[vIQleS]

Please cite the relevant legislation that bans nuclear power

(I haven't found any searching at www.legislation.govt.nz (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/results.aspx?search=ts_act_nuclear_noresel))

Oh - fair enough then...

What about engines and whatnot then? I don't particularly care about ships (american or otherwise) per se, but I'm still not sure why.

I still maintain that the scare-mongering that's going on (laws like ours, groups like greenpeace etc) is a bad thing. Can you imagine what would happen if someone did try to build a nuclear power plant (in NZ)?

[six7s]

Can you imagine what would happen if someone did try to build a nuclear power plant (in NZ)?I don't have to imagine

Nor do I need to promote a kneejerk attitude

I can do some research

Try it

It doesn't hurt

[six7s]

I still maintain that the scare-mongering that's going on (laws like ours, groups like greenpeace etc) is a bad thing. You persist in alluding to some mysteriously invisible bunch of laws?

Why?

[vIQleS]

You persist in alluding to some mysteriously invisible bunch of laws?

Why?

I was asuming that that was what the thread had morphed into...

Are you saying that the ban on nuclear ships etc is not a law? If so then I apologize for my choice of wording.

You seem upset - may I ask why?

Do you think that banning nuclear power sea vessels (do we do that at least?) is a good and sensible policy?
(if it is a policy. if not then substitute the appropriate word or term)

You don't have to imagine? Who has tried to build a NPP in NZ and when?

[six7s]

Are you saying that the ban on nuclear ships etc is not a law?Yes and No

There IS legislation banning nuclear powered ships and nuclear bombs

The etc does not, AFAIK, extend to land-based power stations

You seem upset - may I ask why?You can ask

You can also try reading what is written instead of going off on tangents and jumping to conclusions

[vIQleS]

Perhaps I'm missing your point then - could you please clarify what it is that I'm not getting...

And if you wouldn't mind also answering the above question - that's really all I'm talking about...

ETA: Nothing - I still don't get what I'm not getting...

There is a law that prohibits nuclear powered ships. Do you think that it is a good idea and a sensible law?

[six7s]

Perhaps I'm missing your point then - could you please clarify what it is that I'm not getting...Four minutes after posting, I edited my post above for (hopefully) clarity

And if you wouldn't mind also answering the above question - that's really all I'm talking about...You want me to go off on a tangent about you thinking I'm upset? :confused:

If so, get real - and stop trying to derail this thread

[six7s]

Who has tried to build a NPP in NZ and when?Google.co.nz: Results (country:NZ) 1 - 10 of about 10,800 for New Zealand Nuclear Power electricity. (http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=New+Zealand+Nuclear+Power+electricity&btnG=Search&meta=cr%3DcountryNZ)

Seriously... try doing some research

[paximperium]

Let's be clear. NZ has legislation banning nuclear ships and weapons from its shores that was implemented about 2 decades ago? Yes?

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

We also have a low prison population thanks mainly to the fact that the major duties of the police here seem to include smoking and text messaging. Beating your wife black and blue or cold cocking a guy in the bar are seen as "not that big of a deal" and people tend to arrive at private monetary agreements to rectify legal problems. Even when something does make it to court if the defendant is reasonablly embrassed and humiliated then that is seen as punishment enough.


Don't forget the other duty of Korean police: letting themselves get manhandled by random people.

I loved living in Korea, but yeah -- to rank them that far ahead of the U.S. in "peacefulness" is absurd, and says a lot about the "system" that this organization is employing.

[six7s]

Let's be clear. NZ has legislation banning nuclear ships and weapons from its shores that was implemented about 2 decades ago? Yes?Yes

New Zealand Nuclear Free Zone, Disarmament, and Arms Control Act 1987 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1987/0086/latest/DLM115116.html)

also

Nuclear-Test-Ban Act 1999 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1999/0010/latest/DLM19382.html)

[six7s]

...says a lot about the "system" that this organization is employing.Yeah... it says they have devised and refined a methodology that produces results that can surprise those acquainted solely with anecdotal evidence

[paximperium]

It actually sounds more like NZ protecting themselves during the Cold War than any specific knee jerk reaction:

"No nukes here...please don't nuke us".:eek:

[The Painter]

I think this is very funny. People are fighting in a thread about the most peaceful nation. It kind of reminds me of that scene in Dr. Strangelove.

Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.

[SatanicSheep]

Yeah... it says they have devised and refined a methodology that produces results that can surprise those acquainted solely with anecdotal evidence

AKA Imprecise "measurement" of a subjective concept, producing results that don't reflect reality.

[Beerina]

How can New Zealand claim to be peaceful, when the War of the Rings was fought there?

Hmm?

:p



Those are editorial errors. They meant to print pieceful. As in:

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll38/Gnurl/PetaWilson1.jpg

and

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll38/Gnurl/Xena.jpg

[six7s]

Yeah... it says they have devised and refined a methodology that produces results that can surprise those acquainted solely with anecdotal evidenceAKA Imprecise "measurement" of a subjective concept, producing results that don't reflect reality.Please cite your sources that use precise measurements to produce results that do reflect reality.

Thank you in advance :)

[SatanicSheep]

I'm not in the buisness of quantifying the unquantifiable.

[Damien Evans]

I'm not in the buisness of quantifying the unquantifiable.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/adeptusmoronicus/thread_necromancer.png?t=1250435046

[Toke]

Nice one:D

[D'rok]

I think it's 8 because we only shoot at non-Canadians outside of the country. :covereyes

Goes down to Jane and Finch to test out Gord's theory.

;)

ETA: Dammit. I've fallen under the Necromantic spell.

[SatanicSheep]

No not "nice one", lame one. The rebuttal is in the form a Magic card...

So the post was 2 months old, the survey is still a steaming pile...

[Toke]

No not "nice one", lame one. The rebuttal is in the form a Magic card...

Not quite a magic card:D

So the post was 2 months old, the survey is still a steaming pile...
We have noticed you don't like the conclusion.

[SatanicSheep]

You and the mouse in your pocket should notice that the conclusion is irrelevant considering the survey is meaningless.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

You're meaningless!

*snap* *snap* *snap*



... What's this thread about?

[Toke]

You and the mouse in your pocket should notice that the conclusion is irrelevant considering the survey is meaningless.
Your father is a hamster, and your mother smells of elderberries.

[slingblade]

* slingblade checks pics of gorgeous Kiwi women

I'm packed. Where do I catch the boat or whatever?

[Darth Rotor]

Really?

JREF Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events » New Zealand world's most peaceful nation!

O.. kay...

:rolleyes:
I love the smell of unranium on the forum, it smells like stupidity.

Nuclear propulsion isn't inherently non-peaceful. Nuclear weapons? OK, that's not peaceful. I do understant that NZ chose to adopt a Zero Risk policy. Even if a risk is negligible, it is greater than zero. Unfortunately, there is a bit more to the policy than Zero Risk. :p

For example, an initial matter of port visits by US Navy ships had NOTHING to do with nuclear propulsion, but the stated policy of "deny/confirm" regarding tactical nuclear weapons. "We are a nuclear capable ship, but will not confirm nor deny existence of tactical nuclear wespons on this ship." (Also a lovely bit of politics.)

Removal of tactical nukes from US Navy ships was accomplished by GHW Bush, executive order, in 1991. When is the last time a US warship visited a New Zealand port?

Reading your inputs, on this topic, it appears that New Zealand loves woo, so I tentatively conclude that woo is the key to world peace, if we would all merely emulate the Woo Zealanders. (Modest humorous content in previous sentence.)

That bellicose French nation uses nuclear power for about 70% of its electrical power needs. It's a marvel that New ZEaland doesn't boycott them as well!!!!!!

DR

[six7s]

I love the smell of unranium on the forum, it smells like stupidity.

Nuclear propulsion isn't inherently non-peaceful. Nuclear weapons? OK, that's not peaceful. I do understant that NZ chose to adopt a Zero Risk policy. Even if a risk is negligible, it is greater than zero. Unfortunately, there is a bit more to the policy than Zero Risk. :p

For example, an initial matter of port visits by US Navy ships had NOTHING to do with nuclear propulsion, but the stated policy of "deny/confirm" regarding tactical nuclear weapons. "We are a nuclear capable ship, but will not confirm nor deny existence of tactical nuclear wespons on this ship." (Also a lovely bit of politics.)

Removal of tactical nukes from US Navy ships was accomplished by GHW Bush, executive order, in 1991. When is the last time a US warship visited a New Zealand port?

Reading your inputs, on this topic, it appears that New Zealand loves woo, so I tentatively conclude that woo is the key to world peace, if we would all merely emulate the Woo Zealanders. (Modest humorous content in previous sentence.)

That bellicose French nation uses nuclear power for about 70% of its electrical power needs. It's a marvel that New ZEaland doesn't boycott them as well!!!!!!

DRI tentatively conclude that stream-of-consciousness word salad makes you fart... a smell I can live without in the morning, thanks all the same

[Darth Rotor]

I tentatively conclude that stream-of-consciousness word salad makes you fart... a smell I can live without in the morning, thanks all the same
Sorry if you can't keep up, try again next time.