20 years ago today, the man taught a tanks to play

[MG1962]

No one knows who he was, his fate, anything other than this monumental display of courage and defiance, forever frozen in time

http://www.atasite.org/i/dfa6cdc039609c3695e07233a0fa9f28/TankMan2.jpg

[Safe-Keeper]

[/URL]Today? The tank man made his miraculous stand on June 5th, did he not? Either way, :(.

[URL="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/"]This (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/) should be mandatory viewing at all schools.

[BenBurch]

And to this day, nobody knows his name.

And in China, you cannot find this image, or even any mention of the uprising.

Unhistory.

[tomwaits]

Every once in awhile, someone will come out and claim that they know what happened to him: either he was executed, he's still in prison, he fled to Taiwan, or he's still living like a normal citizen in Beijing.

In other words, he's lost to history.

[BenBurch]

Every once in awhile, someone will come out and claim that they know what happened to him: either he was executed, he's still in prison, he fled to Taiwan, or he's still living like a normal citizen in Beijing.

In other words, he's lost to history.

Some day, On that spot, There will be a statue of him, even though the face may need to be blank.

[madurobob]

Am I the only one humming Sgt Pepper after reading that thread title?

[Safe-Keeper]

What is amazing, if The Tank Man is to be believed, is how amazingly little we Westerners know about the events of those days and weeks. In so many peoples' heads, not to mention in school textbooks and documentaries, the whole event is reduced to a small number of students gathering on Tienanmen square, which was then the site of a massacre after the Tank Man had briefly stopped the tank. Which is, if the documentary is right (and I have no reason to believe it isn't, what with the interviews with the students and journalists who were there) akin to saying that the entirety of WWII in Europe took place between September 1939, when the war started with the Normandie landings, to 1940, when the Dunkirk evacuation took place.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Some day, On that spot, There will be a statue of him, even though the face may need to be blank.

Wouldn't it get hit by cars turning left?

[Monketey Ghost]

Who among us would ever muster the courage to match this? His name and fate deserve to be known, and as history honors the unknown soldier so too should the tank man be honored.

[BenBurch]

Who among us would ever muster the courage to match this? His name and fate deserve to be known, and as history honors the unknown soldier so too should the tank man be honored.

Maybe a statue should be built somewhere else.

Like across from the Chinese embassy in DC...

[applecorped]

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=104&pictureid=853


Nearly 46 years ago. June 11, 1963. Thích Quảng Đức

[MG1962]

Today? The tank man made his miraculous stand on June 5th, did he not? Either way, :(.

This (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/) should be mandatory viewing at all schools.

June 5th in China is June 4th In America :)

[MG1962]

What is amazing, if The Tank Man is to be believed, is how amazingly little we Westerners know about the events of those days and weeks. In so many peoples' heads, not to mention in school textbooks and documentaries, the whole event is reduced to a small number of students gathering on Tienanmen square, which was then the site of a massacre after the Tank Man had briefly stopped the tank. Which is, if the documentary is right (and I have no reason to believe it isn't, what with the interviews with the students and journalists who were there) akin to saying that the entirety of WWII in Europe took place between September 1939, when the war started with the Normandie landings, to 1940, when the Dunkirk evacuation took place.

Thats a very good point - over time we have evolved a very distorted view of those events - the slaughter in the square was indeed the focal point, but there was extreme unrest in many other parts of the country. I recall one chilling news report of a train driver who was executed for treason for refusing an order to drive his train through a mass of protesters surrounding a rail station.

There was an extremely good doco made by the BBC? That showed a lot of interviews with students who survived as well as replaying live interviews in the square at the time.

[Redtail]

Thats a very good point - over time we have evolved a very distorted view of those events - the slaughter in the square was indeed the focal point, but there was extreme unrest in many other parts of the country. I recall one chilling news report of a train driver who was executed for treason for refusing an order to drive his train through a mass of protesters surrounding a rail station.

I was taught that the tanks never stopped and the guy was pulled out of the way at the last second. That it just looked like they stopped because it was a photo. It wasn't until college that that bit of wrong was corrected.

There was an extremely good doco made by the BBC? That showed a lot of interviews with students who survived as well as replaying live interviews in the square at the time.
IIRC someone posted that here a while back.

[Foolmewunz]

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/candlelight-vigil/photo//090604/481/c60c49c003c74662818e135cf582832b//s:/ap/20090604/ap_on_re_as/as_china_tiananmen


I got wind of this on the TV last night and took a taxi over AND I COULDN'T GET INTO THE PARK it was so crowded.

Meanwhile, all week, there have been reports out of Beijing that the square was stocked with police, both uniformed and not, waiting for even a single sign or banner to unfurl. They interviewed man-in-the-street types, and you have to recognize the totality of the Chinese clampdown... people had heard that "um, uh, something about a demonstration, I think, but I don't know much about it" had occurred there twenty years ago.

Where's Aurora? I'd like to know what the younger population thinks and what she's experienced this week.

[Marquis de Carabas]

bpz102bDzH4

[Madouc]

Foolmewunz - I got in! It was swelteringly hot, but unbelievably beautiful sitting in the sea of 150,000 candles. I'm glad this corner of China can still remember.

[MG1962]

I was taught that the tanks never stopped and the guy was pulled out of the way at the last second. That it just looked like they stopped because it was a photo. It wasn't until college that that bit of wrong was corrected.




For anyone interested here is the entire encounter as captured on video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV-tk8CrqCQ

In the comments there is an interesting note thanking the tank driver - who knows what trouble he had to deal with as a result of choosing not to simply run this guy over

[Foolmewunz]

To me, with my blatant Sinophilia, this is just so Chinese. A guy who was probably on his way home and just felt that he had to do something, and didn't even bother handing off his shopping to someone else..... just walked in front of a procession of tanks. It's one of the most indelible memories of my life.

[Foolmewunz]

Foolmewunz - I got in! It was swelteringly hot, but unbelievably beautiful sitting in the sea of 150,000 candles. I'm glad this corner of China can still remember.

Yay! Good on ya. I wish I'd planned for it, but I was battling bureaucracy all day and by the time I felt guilty for not being there, I could only make it down in time to be told there was no room in the park. I milled about, though and ran into a couple of people I hadn't seen in a while - which always happens at this sort of an event for some reason.

Astonishingly young crowd where I was. Did you note the same? And quite a few people speaking Putonghua/Mandarin.

[Marquis de Carabas]

The New York Times published a never before seen photo (http://tinyurl.com/qkcdkh) of Tank Man yesterday.

[Foolmewunz]

The New York Times published a never before seen photo (http://tinyurl.com/qkcdkh) of Tank Man yesterday.

Wow! It just became more indelible (indelibler?).... I didn't think that was possible. Thanks, Marquis.

[Madouc]

I guess I was a young person at the vigil (I was only 6 in '89), but my mum also comment on the plethora of young 'uns. Most people sitting around me were under 30, with even a few primary school aged kids, as well as an elderly man who had to be helped up for the "guk gung". And a sprinkling of gweilos too.

[Damien Evans]

[/URL]Today? The tank man made his miraculous stand on June 5th, did he not? Either way, :(.

[URL="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/"]This (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/) should be mandatory viewing at all schools.

Today is the 5th of June.

[wollery]

And to this day, nobody knows his name.

And in China, you cannot find this image, or even any mention of the uprising.

Unhistory.Completely untrue.

Everyone here knows about it.

[Foolmewunz]

Completely untrue.

Everyone here knows about it.

Just to clarify... you mean the incident/the history, and not that everyone knows who he is.

I concur. But try to get 'em to say that on camera to a CCTV reporter....

[The Central Scrutinizer]

If I impeded traffic like that, I would get a ticket. :mad:

[Marquis de Carabas]

If I impeded traffic like that, I would get a ticket. :mad:
No, if you impeded traffic like that, nobody would bother to stop.

[tomwaits]

To me, with my blatant Sinophilia, this is just so Chinese. A guy who was probably on his way home and just felt that he had to do something, and didn't even bother handing off his shopping to someone else..... just walked in front of a procession of tanks. It's one of the most indelible memories of my life.


That's my favorite part of the entire incident. He's not a student protester or anything...just some dude who was getting groceries.

[MG1962]

That's my favorite part of the entire incident. He's not a student protester or anything...just some dude who was getting groceries.

I agree, thats what makes what he did so special. He could be anyone of us

[BenBurch]

I agree, thats what makes what he did so special. He could be anyone of us

I hope I could be that brave.

[aerosolben]

Boston Globe covered the anniversary in The Big Picture (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/remembering_tiananmen_20_years.html) today. Nice big photos from the original protests (including the new one of Tank Man) and anniversary commemorations.

[tomwaits]

For the posters in China: is this forum going to be blocked?

[Foolmewunz]

For the posters in China: is this forum going to be blocked?

I doubt it. I can backdoor into Google.CN, and while I can't read Chinese, I found 24 million hits for "Tank Man" (compared to 35 million on the HK site), and there's another backdoor that found 16 million. They just effectively repress any teachings about it in school (especially from the pro-democracy slant) and aren't out there promoting it as a national day of remembrance.

[wollery]

For the posters in China: is this forum going to be blocked?Nah, this is all over the Chinese blogs and forums.

[aerosolben]

I doubt it. I can backdoor into Google.CN, and while I can't read Chinese, I found 24 million hits for "Tank Man" (compared to 35 million on the HK site), and there's another backdoor that found 16 million. They just effectively repress any teachings about it in school (especially from the pro-democracy slant) and aren't out there promoting it as a national day of remembrance.

Nah, this is all over the Chinese blogs and forums.

That's a bit of a surprising answer. From my link: "Access to many popular websites was suddenly blocked by the Chinese government two days before the 20th anniversary of the crackdown, including YouTube, Blogspot, Tumblr, Livejournal, Flickr, Twitter and Bing. (REUTERS/Stringer)".

[Delvo]

How is it possible for the end of this story to be unknown? It was being watched both in person and on camera.

[MG1962]

How is it possible for the end of this story to be unknown? It was being watched both in person and on camera.

Because no one knows who he was. This was not some high ranking offical or rock star or activist. It was a guy walking home from doing his shopping who on the spur of the momment decided, enough was enough. After the events of June 5th there was a massive media clampdown and the authorities went into high gear. So even if he tried to tell his story there was no way to be heard

It has even been suggested that the people who run out and grab the guy were not innocent bystanders or friends, but security agents who knew the event was being filmed.

[Foolmewunz]

That's a bit of a surprising answer. From my link: "Access to many popular websites was suddenly blocked by the Chinese government two days before the 20th anniversary of the crackdown, including YouTube, Blogspot, Tumblr, Livejournal, Flickr, Twitter and Bing. (REUTERS/Stringer)".

Every time someone farts downwind, there's a report from Reuters or AFP or AP that the net is being shut down. Quite often it's a particular blog or site and equally often it lasts for a few hours. And more often than not it's some overzealous bureaucrat.

[Delvo]

Because no one knows who he was.That wouldn't answer my question, which I had asked based on the impression from above in this thread that nobody even knew whether he'd eventually just left or the tanks had turned to go around him, rolled over him, shot him, waited until the police arrested him, given up and turned around, or floated away on giant lily pads. Even if nobody knew who "that guy" was, they would have observed that "that guy" was finally shot or whatever.

However, the answer to my question seems to be in this next bit you wrote:It has even been suggested that the people who run out and grab the guy were not innocent bystanders or friends, but security agents who knew the event was being filmed.So he was seen being pulled out of the tanks' way by some other people on foot. Somehow some comments in this thread gave me the impression that even that bit of info wasn't known. (And until that, I had been under the impression that the front tank had paused only briefly before killing him and continuing.)

How long did the tanks wait before he was removed?

[Redtail]

That wouldn't answer my question, which I had asked based on the impression from above in this thread that nobody even knew whether he'd eventually just left or the tanks had turned to go around him, rolled over him, shot him, waited until the police arrested him, given up and turned around, or floated away on giant lily pads. Even if nobody knew who "that guy" was, they would have observed that "that guy" was finally shot or whatever.

However, the answer to my question seems to be in this next bit you wrote:So he was seen being pulled out of the tanks' way by some other people on foot. Somehow some comments in this thread gave me the impression that even that bit of info wasn't known. (And until that, I had been under the impression that the front tank had paused only briefly before killing him and continuing.)

How long did the tanks wait before he was removed?

A good few minutes. IIRC He jumped up on the tank and pounded on the turret.

ETA: Here's a good documentary about him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB70mWXrzEE&feature=PlayList&p=E085CEEBD944E54B&index=0&playnext=1

[MG1962]

A good few minutes. IIRC He jumped up on the tank and pounded on the turret.

ETA: Here's a good documentary about him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB70mWXrzEE&feature=PlayList&p=E085CEEBD944E54B&index=0&playnext=1

From the time the tanks stops too when he is whisked away - 1 minute and 17 seconds. The time he stood in the street waiting for the tanks to get to him, anybodys guess

[Redtail]

From the time the tanks stops too when he is whisked away - 1 minute and 17 seconds. The time he stood in the street waiting for the tanks to get to him, anybodys guess

:eye-poppiI stand corrected. I never looked at the time. It seems longer when a guy is facing down a tank with shopping bags.

[wollery]

:eye-poppiI stand corrected. I never looked at the time. It seems longer when a guy is facing down a tank with shopping bags.Which raises the question - why did the tank have shopping bags?







I'll get me coat

[Redtail]

Which raises the question - why did the tank have shopping bags?







I'll get me coat

You sir have obviously never tried to put groceries in the barrel of a cannon.





Scary enough, I have....

[MG1962]

:eye-poppiI stand corrected. I never looked at the time. It seems longer when a guy is facing down a tank with shopping bags.

No problem, time does have a tendency to slow down when you are to face with oblivion.

[dafydd]

Pedant and musician mode on.Shouldn't it be It was 20 years ago today,the man taught the tank to play? Scans better,and I don't know what a tanks is.