1 Cup of Flour + Grease Fire > Stick of Dynamite

[Typicallucas]

Hard to believe, but since I got it in a chain email it must be true:

"Also, do not throw sugar or flour on a grease fire. One cup of either creates the explosive force of two sticks of dynamite."

Be afraid, be very very afraid!

[Madalch]

Hard to believe, but since I got it in a chain email it must be true:

"Also, do not throw sugar or flour on a grease fire. One cup of either creates the explosive force of two sticks of dynamite."

Be afraid, be very very afraid!

Actually, yes, be afraid. Sugar and flour are flammable. When it's finely divided, it has a great deal of surface area, and becomes a lot more reactive.

A cup of normal sugar is fairly safe. A cup of flour is a lot more finely powdered, and may result in a large conflagration when tossed on a grease fire. (Accent on the "may". I'm not trying it, but feel free to ask Mythbusters to deal with it.)

Numerous explosions have destroyed mills and sawmills with nothing more than very fine sawdust or flour suspended in the air.

I know from personal experience that iron can be powdered sufficiently fine to catch fire when poured in air.

[runnah]

Good thing I have a forman grill!

The key to this idea is they you are adding an fuel soucre in areosal form. Sugar is granualar and would react excitedly. Flour I honestly am not sure about since I am not sure if it would be combustable in that form or not. I would bet no.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Flour I honestly am not sure about since I am not sure if it would be combustable in that form or not. I would bet no.

Don't try this at home! ;)

In coffee can, poke a hole near the bottom that you can fit the nozzle of a tire pump into. Fill the can about 1/3 with flour and put a lit candle into the flour. The push hard on the pump to fluff the flour up.

ETA: The fire plume in my avatar is a similar principle. I'm using kerosene (paraffin). You can actually extinguish the torch (burning coleman fuel) in an open container of kerosene. To do the plume I have to pretty well atomize the stuff to get the droplets small enough. (Even so, it's messy--a lot of the kerosene just falls to the ground unburnt.)

But I suspect "the explosive force of two sticks of dynamite" is a bit of hyperbole!

[Robster, FCD]

Well, I'll have to try this... at home.

Any powder in the air can be highly explosive.

[runnah]

Well the biggest factor is the method of delivery. If you do the method above you be fubar'd. But odd re he average kitched grease fire is going to invoved dumping a canister of flour onto the fire. If the volume is enough and there isn't enough distance to mix with the air the fire would suffocate.

Betty Crocker is going to be banned from air travel.

[blutoski]

Actually, yes, be afraid. Sugar and flour are flammable. When it's finely divided, it has a great deal of surface area, and becomes a lot more reactive.

I know from personal experience that iron can be powdered sufficiently fine to catch fire when poured in air.

Yep. I grew up in a neighbourhood that's sitting in the shade of grain elevators here in North Vancouver, and one of the loudest noises I've ever heard was when a spark destroyed one of the silos.

I suspect that while a normal cup of sugar is not very dangerous, icing sugar would be somewhat risky.

Two sticks of dynamite? Not sure about that.

[blutoski]

Also: an experiment I've done to demonstrate the benefit of increasing surface area (and the purpose of a carbeurator) is to put lighter fluid in a paint can.

First, I do it with the fluid poured onto the bottom of the can.

Small pop.


Then, I do it with the same volume of lighter fluid, but I close the lid and shake it first.

Bang.

[Madalch]

Well the biggest factor is the method of delivery. If you do the method above you be fubar'd. But odd re he average kitched grease fire is going to invoved dumping a canister of flour onto the fire. If the volume is enough and there isn't enough distance to mix with the air the fire would suffocate.

That would depend on how much flour is involved, and how close you get to the fire as you dump it. If you stand back and throw the flour on, then you'll be mixing the flour quite nicely with the air as it goes to the fire- BOOM!

This isn't a dependable way to create an explosion (as I've tried it several times, for the purposes of demonstrating such a thing), but it's still dangerous. Even if you've got a 5% chance of an explosion and a 50% chance of smothering the fire, there are much better ways to deal with the grease fire.

[Uncayimmy]

When I was a lad, soda cans were made of tin (or some other stuff material rather than aluminum like today). We would use can openers to take the tops and bottoms off of several cans. For the last can we would only take off the top, then use a nail to punch a small hole in the bottom.

Next we would use duct tape to connect the cans into a longer tube with the last can being on one end. We'd squirt some lighter fluid in the end, spin it around to get it to vaporize, then hold a match up to the end by the hole.

Ka-boom! We could even shoot objects with it.

[fuelair]

Don't try this at home! ;)

In coffee can, poke a hole near the bottom that you can fit the nozzle of a tire pump into. Fill the can about 1/3 with flour and put a lit candle into the flour. The push hard on the pump to fluff the flour up.

ETA: The fire plume in my avatar is a similar principle. I'm using kerosene (paraffin). You can actually extinguish the torch (burning coleman fuel) in an open container of kerosene. To do the plume I have to pretty well atomize the stuff to get the droplets small enough. (Even so, it's messy--a lot of the kerosene just falls to the ground unburnt.)

But I suspect "the explosive force of two sticks of dynamite" is a bit of hyperbole!Make that a feces-load of hyperbole and you are about there.:D

[TjW]

When I was a lad, soda cans were made of tin (or some other stuff material rather than aluminum like today). We would use can openers to take the tops and bottoms off of several cans. For the last can we would only take off the top, then use a nail to punch a small hole in the bottom.

Next we would use duct tape to connect the cans into a longer tube with the last can being on one end. We'd squirt some lighter fluid in the end, spin it around to get it to vaporize, then hold a match up to the end by the hole.

Ka-boom! We could even shoot objects with it.

Google "potato cannon".

[Stellafane]

"...do not throw sugar or flour on a grease fire...

Shucks, that just about eliminates all my best recipes.

[LTC8K6]

You'll get a "whoosh" and a ball of flame, which is quite dangerous, but it will be nothing like setting off a stick of dynamite in your kitchen...

[tsig]

You'll get a "whoosh" and a ball of flame, which is quite dangerous, but it will be nothing like setting off a stick of dynamite in your kitchen...

First you have to dynamite your kitchen to get a fair comparison. :p

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

I once put out a grease fire with salt. I worked great.


This makes me think of the warning our teacher gave us in welding class back in high school; a cigarette lighter will explode with the force of two sticks of dynamite if a spark hits it. It would blow your leg off. The Mythbusters showed us that this just isn't so.

It would seem that "two sticks of dynamite" is the metric used for such things.

[tesscaline]

I once put out a grease fire with salt. I worked great.Salt isn't flammable the way sugar and flour are... In fact, salt is the recommended way to put out grease fires in the kitchen.

[Madalch]

Salt isn't flammable the way sugar and flour are... In fact, salt is the recommended way to put out grease fires in the kitchen.
Or sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Neither salt nor soda are flammable at all, even under extreme conditions.

[LTC8K6]

First you have to dynamite your kitchen to get a fair comparison.

I have a fair comparison from a misspent youth and a few years in the US Army. Mostly from the misspent youth. :D

[Miss_Kitt]

I doubt the dynamite thing, but flour explosions are amazingly destructive!! IIRC, powdered milk is also a Bad Thing to toss towards an open flame.

I have used the baking soda method myself! My stepmom had just set the stovetop on fire with a good-sized splash of grease from the cast-iron skillet...ah, memories. Childhood is so precious!! I was 11 or 12 years old.

[LTC8K6]

The best stuff for a nice "whoosh" is non-dairy creamer... :D

[Aitch]

IIRC at least one custard factory in the UK has been destroyed by this.

Let's face it, a cloud of finely divided organic material in the air is the basis of a crude fuel-air bomb. :cool:

BTW am I the only person who finds the phrase custard factory smile-inducing?

[Modified]

I wouldn't be surprised if the potential explosiveness of a cup of flour, if you got all of it suspended in the air in an ideal volume, was equal to two sticks of dynamite or more. That isn't going to happen if you're throwing a cup of flour on a grease fire though.

[Biff Starbuck]

Make that a feces-load of hyperbole and you are about there.:D

Coming from a person named Fuelair, it has to be true :D

Seriously though, it is the same principle. And I agree with Fuelair's analysis of his cousin flower-air-fireball's capabilities.

A cloud of a combustible substance such as kerosene or flower spread out over a large volume of air to create explosive combustion works well. It is a great, low order, explosive, along the lines of heaving explosives with slower blast waves. They tend to create large overpressure and blast waves rather than an abrupt shock wave with higher brisance, or shattering effect...

As for the relative damage of the two? I think I need to see the Mythbusters blow up some kitchens :) At home, I think you would get a fireball of a giant flame that would scare the heck out of you, and even make possibly a small boom. In a grain elevator, I think the particulates are much more dispersed, and since they are in contained cylinder, it is the grain silo that explodes when it bursts, rather than a massive blast wave coming from the grain. It is like putting match heads into an improvised pipe bomb. Matches are safe and burn at a controlled rate, but if you contain the gas produced by them, BOOM! The steel pipe can't hold it any more. Fire crackers are the same thing. The smokeless powder on the ground just makes a poof of fire, but wrapped tightly in paper, they make a bang.

[dahduh]

do not throw sugar or flour on a grease fire. One cup of either creates the explosive force of two sticks of dynamite.

Hey, I've just [I]got[i] to try this! Be right back...

[technoextreme]

Cn a grain elevator, I think the particulates are much more dispersed, and since they are in contained cylinder, it is the grain silo that explodes when it bursts, rather than a massive blast wave coming from the grain.
Just as a side note it happens in factories on a pretty regular basis so it doesn't matter of the shape of the container. The structure needs to be enclosed but otherwise.

[Biff Starbuck]

Just as a side note it happens in factories on a pretty regular basis so it doesn't matter of the shape of the container. The structure needs to be enclosed but otherwise.

Good point. I did not mean to imply the cylindrical shape of grain silos, pipe bombs, or firecrackers was necessary for the explosion, those just were my examples. What it is it with phallic shaped objects and explosions? :)

I guess for intentionally made bombs and firecrackers, you get greater burst resistance from a sphere or cylinder which would make a bigger bang when the container did catastrophically fail (or succeed in exploding :) ), but for an unintended dust explosion the shape of the container is more of a side note.

[borealys]

The best stuff for a nice "whoosh" is non-dairy creamer... :D

Somebody's seen that Mythbusters episode, methinks.

[Gilmar]

Flour power.

[LTC8K6]

Somebody's seen that Mythbusters episode, methinks.

Long before Mythbusters...used to throw creamer on the stove...

[LTC8K6]

Grain silos and elevators and piping are generally full of inert gases these days.

[Aepervius]

All hydrocarbon based substance which are finely powdered or hydrocarbon liquid finely "misted" have the potential to make an explosion. Why do you think our automobile engine are called "explosion engine". The gas is mixed with air in a fine mist and sparked. Same for sugar, flour, etc.... Mixing combustible with comburant and then sparking is always quite impressive (depending on the combustible quantities naturally).

To compare the explosive power you could as a very simple (and very approximate) take the whole cup of flour as being fully burned and calculate the amount of joules generated, then do the same with your average dynamite stick.

Wiki : A stick of dynamite contains roughly 2.1 million joules of energy. The energy density (joules/kilogram) of dynamite is approximately 7.5 megajoules/kilogram. I will take sugar because I have no idea how much energy is flour... Assuming the sugar you have a 4000 calorie per gram or roughly 16 kj per gram. So unless I have one zero too much, this is 16 megajoule per kilo. TWICE as energetic than dynamite per kilogram.

So assuming perfect combustion in both case, 2 stick being roughly 500 gram of dynamite, will deliver as much energy as 250 grams of sugar assuming the sugar is finely dispersed with oxygen and 100% burned.

So yes, ad-hoc a big cup of sugar thrown on a fire can ahve as much energy as 2 stick of dynamite if the condition are PERFECT (finely powdered and finely thrown into a mist).

[LTC8K6]

Having seen many examples of cups of sugar and flour thrown into the air above a fire, I very much doubt the energy claims, and the recent Mythbusters episode seems to bear this out.

[Whiplash]

Hey, I've just [I]got[i] to try this! Be right back...


Woah, this guy never came back.. I hope he's ok!

[Aepervius]

Having seen many examples of cups of sugar and flour thrown into the air above a fire, I very much doubt the energy claims, and the recent Mythbusters episode seems to bear this out.

I don't trust mythbuster, I trust numbers and chemistry. As I said, if there is a perfect combustion, 7.5 mj per kg for dynamite, 16 mj per kg for sugar. If I made any error anywhere, please tell.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Well, I'll have to try this... at home.

Any powder in the air can be highly explosive.Baking soda works quite nicely putting out a grease fire. I have tested it.

[Whiplash]

That makes sense to me, a little baking soda in some water always puts grease fires out in my stomach.

[rjh01]

It may not work unless you know what you are doing. You must get the fuel at the right % with the oxygen. Get too much fuel or air and it will absorb too much heat for it to explode.

If you want this to work try it with pure oxygen. Just about anything will explode or burn rapidly using pure oxygen. They found this out to the cost of human lives in the space race.

[rjh01]

In Australia they put certain information for the benefit of people who are on diets on the packets of food. I have a packet of plain flour. It says there are 1,490kj per 100 grams. Someone want to work out if this is more energy than sugar?

ETA
Sugar has 1,700 kj per 100 grams. This is 1.7 Mj per Kilogram, not 16 megajoule per kilo as in post 32. So something is wrong somewhere.

[Redtail]

Actually, yes, be afraid. Sugar and flour are flammable. When it's finely divided, it has a great deal of surface area, and becomes a lot more reactive.

A cup of normal sugar is fairly safe. A cup of flour is a lot more finely powdered, and may result in a large conflagration when tossed on a grease fire. (Accent on the "may". I'm not trying it, but feel free to ask Mythbusters to deal with it.)

Numerous explosions have destroyed mills and sawmills with nothing more than very fine sawdust or flour suspended in the air.

I know from personal experience that iron can be powdered sufficiently fine to catch fire when poured in air.

What he said. I don't know if 1cup= 2sticks of dynamite but it could very well go boom.

[Aepervius]

In Australia they put certain information for the benefit of people who are on diets on the packets of food. I have a packet of plain flour. It says there are 1,490kj per 100 grams. Someone want to work out if this is more energy than sugar?

ETA
Sugar has 1,700 kj per 100 grams. This is 1.7 Mj per Kilogram, not 16 megajoule per kilo as in post 32. So something is wrong somewhere.

1,700 kj per 100g is 17,000 kj per 1000g or 1kg. So it is 17 MJ.Kg-1. My 16 was approximated so it is OK. You made an error going to 1.7 MJ per Kg.

[rjh01]

Yes you are right. I lost a zero.

[Dave Rogers]

I don't trust mythbuster, I trust numbers and chemistry. As I said, if there is a perfect combustion, 7.5 mj per kg for dynamite, 16 mj per kg for sugar. If I made any error anywhere, please tell.

This appears to me mathematically correct, and intuitively right - explosives containing their own oxidiser will generally have a lot lower energy density than substances that combust in air. However, what this doesn't address is the claim in the chain e-mail that the flour or sugar has "the explosive force of two sticks of dynamite". This, I think, is quite cleary bunk. A dispersion of flour in air will certainly explode - I saw it demonstrated at a kids' talk in the Science Museum last year - but it won't release energy as rapidly as dynamite, and hence the instantaneous peak pressure (which is the closest quantity I can envisage to the intended meaning of the term "explosive force") will be very much less.

Dave

[ponderingturtle]

That would depend on how much flour is involved, and how close you get to the fire as you dump it. If you stand back and throw the flour on, then you'll be mixing the flour quite nicely with the air as it goes to the fire- BOOM!

I would expect more of a Foom, as it would lack the containment for a boom.

Might be a good way to set your house of fire though.

[Aepervius]

This appears to me mathematically correct, and intuitively right - explosives containing their own oxidiser will generally have a lot lower energy density than substances that combust in air. However, what this doesn't address is the claim in the chain e-mail that the flour or sugar has "the explosive force of two sticks of dynamite". This, I think, is quite cleary bunk. A dispersion of flour in air will certainly explode - I saw it demonstrated at a kids' talk in the Science Museum last year - but it won't release energy as rapidly as dynamite, and hence the instantaneous peak pressure (which is the closest quantity I can envisage to the intended meaning of the term "explosive force") will be very much less.

Dave


Good call. The speed is different mostly because it has to go from one side of the cloud of flour/sugar to the other. Now if they had compared a cloud of TNT to a cloud of sugar, or sugar packed with oxidizer ...:)

[Cuddles]

In fact, salt is the recommended way to put out grease fires in the kitchen.

Just a slight point in the interests of safety - the actual recommended way to put out a grease fire in the kitchen is with a fire blanket. If you don't have one, you should get one. They're not expensive, and in many locations you may even be able to get one free from your local council or fire department.

Things like salt and baking soda can work in a pinch if you don't have anything better, and assuming you actually have enough, but they shouldn't be relied on as your first option.

[LTC8K6]

Finely powdered aluminum is often used to make big bangs...

[LTC8K6]

Whoosh! not foom... :D

[rjh01]

Actually if you do not have fire blanket and you have a fire do this.

1. Grab a phone either cordless or mobile (cell phone to you USA people). Disregard if this cannot easily be done. Time limit 10 seconds.
2. GET OUT OF THE HOUSE. TAKE ONLY what is more valuable than you, plus the phone from step 1.
3. Call the fire brigade. You can either use the phone you took from step 1 or go to the neighbours house and get them to call the fire brigade.

I would not bother to use any type of fire extinguisher. If it is the wrong type or not used correctly you will only make things worse. That means big $.

[LTC8K6]

Put the lid on it first and calm down... :)

[ponderingturtle]

Actually if you do not have fire blanket and you have a fire do this.

1. Grab a phone either cordless or mobile (cell phone to you USA people). Disregard if this cannot easily be done. Time limit 10 seconds.
2. GET OUT OF THE HOUSE. TAKE ONLY what is more valuable than you, plus the phone from step 1.
3. Call the fire brigade. You can either use the phone you took from step 1 or go to the neighbours house and get them to call the fire brigade.

I would not bother to use any type of fire extinguisher. If it is the wrong type or not used correctly you will only make things worse. That means big $.

Is a dry chemical ABC extiguisher going to cause that much problems?

[Biff Starbuck]

Is a dry chemical ABC extiguisher going to cause that much problems?

I think the biggest problem would be an old-fashioned extinguisher with water.

For a dry chemical or CO2 extinguisher, I think the main risk is being too close to the burning liquid and sending a shower of hot grease spraying everywhere. Ideally, I think you would want to be far enough away to put the powder or CO2 cloud on the flames, but avoid splashing or spreading the fire.

I have been to occupational safety classes where we practiced putting out burning diesel fuel with dry chemical extinguishers, and everyone successfully and safely put out the flames by starting a good distance away and slowly moving close enough for the powder to reach the base of the flames.

[Lensman]

In coal mines, the greatest explosion fear is of a coaldust explosion - more violent than a gas explosion.
In the School of Mines where I spent the first year of my apprenticeship, they had a small test chamber where they could show you the difference between a gas explosion & one of coaldust - BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG difference indeed!
Stonedust barriers were the preferred method of combatting any unintentional explosion.

Stone Dust usage (http://www.dmm-pitwork.org.uk/html/sdust.htm)

[HeyLeroy]

Well, I'll have to try this... at home.

Any powder in the air can be highly explosive.

Especially gunpowder!

Back in the early days of the David Letterman show he had a running segment called something like "What do you want to see dropped off a ten-storey building?".

They took a bag of flour, cut a corner off and poured in a little gasoline. They lit the bag and over the side it went.

Biggish fireball ensued.

[tesscaline]

Actually if you do not have fire blanket and you have a fire do this.

1. Grab a phone either cordless or mobile (cell phone to you USA people). Disregard if this cannot easily be done. Time limit 10 seconds.
2. GET OUT OF THE HOUSE. TAKE ONLY what is more valuable than you, plus the phone from step 1.
3. Call the fire brigade. You can either use the phone you took from step 1 or go to the neighbours house and get them to call the fire brigade.

I would not bother to use any type of fire extinguisher. If it is the wrong type or not used correctly you will only make things worse. That means big $.Your set of solutions is an overreaction. If the fire is small enough (i.e. a tsp or so of grease spilled on the stove top) there is no reason you should not attempt to put it out on your own. In fact, not putting it out on your own would be rather negligent and cause much more loss of property and danger to human life than necessary.

Not every fire has to be life threatening. Having worked in a professional kitchen (where, thanks to people who were learning on the job, something caught fire every single day), most fires aren't. Accidentally leave a towel over a burner? drop it in the sink and turn the faucet on. If a sink isn't close enough, drop it in the pot of liquid you more than likely have on the stove. If you don't have a pot of liquid on the stove, drop it on the floor and stamp on it. Have splash over from your pan, and get a bit of grease on fire? pour salt or baking soda over it (why this and not a fire blanket? because it takes too long to go get one in a professional kitchen, and in the time taken to go get one the fire could spread). Have your pan catch on fire unintentionally? Throw the lid on it and move it off it's heat source (the burner).

It's people who react the way you suggested that end up making those tiny little fires I cited above into full building blazes -- simply because they were to freaked out to exercise a little bit of common sense instead of running around like a chicken with its head chopped off.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Put the lid on it first and calm down... :)No kidding.

There is a time to exit and a time to reach for the lid or the baking powder or the fire extinguisher that is intended for grease fires which you could have placed in your kitchen along with your smoke detector.

I'm all for not trying to put out a fire if you don't know what you are doing and that includes understanding when you can and when you cannot intervene with what you have at hand. The Great White concert night club fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire) that burned 100 people alive took less than 2 minutes from start to total flash over. I watched the whole video which has been turned into a fire training film. There are stacks of people stuck in the windows unable to get out and in another minute you see nothing but flames where the people were. One minute earlier (literally) the camera man was making his way out the exit filming the scene behind him. At that point people leaving weren't even running yet. It's a shame we haven't done more to teach people how fast a fire can spread.

But, if you know how to and can put out a grease fire before it ignites anything outside the pan, you should.

[ElectricVoodoo]

Flour dust while pensile in the air is explosive (as with many other fine powders which are flammable in the air in dust form). The knowledge isn't anything new; hundreds of years ago any source of flame was banned from flour mills and continues today.

During my internship a fellow was brought into emergency with severe burns to his head, face, neck, arms and hands after trying to put out a fire in a restaurant kitchen with flour. While the injuries alone were non-life threatening, the risk for infection was great. His only luck was that he did not lose his eyesight, for there was only very minor damage to the sclera.

The bottom line is don't throw flour into any fire. Human curiosity often prevails but I implore anyone reading this not to further burden the health care system with preventable injuries.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Woah, this guy never came back.. I hope he's ok!
Meh. Eyebrows are over-rated anyway.

[Holler Hoojer]

All hydrocarbon based substance which are finely powdered or hydrocarbon liquid finely "misted" have the potential to make an explosion. Why do you think our automobile engine are called "explosion engine". The gas is mixed with air in a fine mist and sparked. Same for sugar, flour, etc.... Mixing combustible with comburant and then sparking is always quite impressive (depending on the combustible quantities naturally).

To compare the explosive power you could as a very simple (and very approximate) take the whole cup of flour as being fully burned and calculate the amount of joules generated, then do the same with your average dynamite stick.

Wiki : A stick of dynamite contains roughly 2.1 million joules of energy. The energy density (joules/kilogram) of dynamite is approximately 7.5 megajoules/kilogram. I will take sugar because I have no idea how much energy is flour... Assuming the sugar you have a 4000 calorie per gram or roughly 16 kj per gram. So unless I have one zero too much, this is 16 megajoule per kilo. TWICE as energetic than dynamite per kilogram.

So assuming perfect combustion in both case, 2 stick being roughly 500 gram of dynamite, will deliver as much energy as 250 grams of sugar assuming the sugar is finely dispersed with oxygen and 100% burned.

So yes, ad-hoc a big cup of sugar thrown on a fire can ahve as much energy as 2 stick of dynamite if the condition are PERFECT (finely powdered and finely thrown into a mist).

You have several too many zeros.

[rjh01]

Your set of solutions is an overreaction. If the fire is small enough (i.e. a tsp or so of grease spilled on the stove top) there is no reason you should not attempt to put it out on your own. In fact, not putting it out on your own would be rather negligent and cause much more loss of property and danger to human life than necessary.

Not every fire has to be life threatening. Having worked in a professional kitchen (where, thanks to people who were learning on the job, something caught fire every single day), most fires aren't. Accidentally leave a towel over a burner? drop it in the sink and turn the faucet on. If a sink isn't close enough, drop it in the pot of liquid you more than likely have on the stove. If you don't have a pot of liquid on the stove, drop it on the floor and stamp on it. Have splash over from your pan, and get a bit of grease on fire? pour salt or baking soda over it (why this and not a fire blanket? because it takes too long to go get one in a professional kitchen, and in the time taken to go get one the fire could spread). Have your pan catch on fire unintentionally? Throw the lid on it and move it off it's heat source (the burner).

It's people who react the way you suggested that end up making those tiny little fires I cited above into full building blazes -- simply because they were to freaked out to exercise a little bit of common sense instead of running around like a chicken with its head chopped off.

The difference between you and most other people is that you deal with fire on a daily basis. You know how to react. Most other people have never seen a fire threaten them. Then if they try to put it out they are putting their own lives plus the house at risk if they fail.

At work we are told if there is a fire - get out. Do not bother to fight it. If you can cover it with a bin do so, but that is it. And I am in charge of 100 people in any sort of building emergency at work.

I laugh when I see a movie where they put out a fire with a CO2 extinguisher. The secret with those is that you must get real close to the fire to put it out. Plus keep your hands away from the where the CO2 leaves the extinguisher. It is rare for the movies to get it right. So why should anyone else?

Use the wrong type of extinguisher then you will do no good. I bought an dry chemical extinguisher many years ago. That is good for liquid and electrical fires. But if I had a paper fire it would not be so good. Then if there is smoke that is poisonous. No I think it is not much better than an expensive paper weight.

[tsig]

Grain silos and elevators and piping are generally full of inert gases these days.

Must be hard on the workers.:D

[LTC8K6]

AFAIK, it's now common to store and move the stuff using nitrogen.

[tesscaline]

The difference between you and most other people is that you deal with fire on a daily basis. You know how to react. Most other people have never seen a fire threaten them. Then if they try to put it out they are putting their own lives plus the house at risk if they fail.I'm sorry but, while I appreciate the idea that you think I'm unique in some extraordinary way, I'm really not special in the least. "Most other people" do deal with fire on a daily basis. You know, what with cooking meals and whatnot. Every single person should have enough wherewithal to be able to put out a teeny little fire on their stovetop. If they don't, they shouldn't be using said stovetop. My knowledge about how to put out stove fires has nothing to do with my culinary background (for the record, I haven't worked in a professional kitchen for a number of years now). These are simplistic bits of knowledge that I was taught as a child before I was allowed to use our house stove. My mother has never worked in a professional kitchen, and she was taught the same as a child. Same with my father. And his mother, and so on and so on.

[Cuddles]

Is a dry chemical ABC extiguisher going to cause that much problems?

The big problem with chemical and powder extinguishers is that, even assuming you use them correctly and in the right situation, they make one hell of a mess. Obviously that's not a reason not to use one if you don't have to, but if it's a choice between one of them and a blanket, or simply a lid and moving off the heat, the extinguisher should really be the last resort.

(why this and not a fire blanket? because it takes too long to go get one in a professional kitchen, and in the time taken to go get one the fire could spread)

Fair enough. I was thinking more of a home kitchen, where I can reach a fire blanket just by turning around, but am unlikely to even have enough salt to put out a fire big enough to warrant attention in the first place.

At work we are told if there is a fire - get out. Do not bother to fight it. If you can cover it with a bin do so, but that is it. And I am in charge of 100 people in any sort of building emergency at work.

Sorry, but if that is actually the official position at your workplace, they are seriously negligent. Every workplace should have the relevant types of fire extinguisher easily accessible from anywhere in the building, and everyone should have training in how to use them, including proper hands-on training and not just theory.

Obviously this doesn't mean everyone should become gung-ho firefighters if a fire does occur, but proper procedure would be to alert the building there is a fire, tackle it if at all possible, and then leave if either it is not possible for you to put it out or if your first attempt to do so fails. As Skeptichick says, if you just run away without making any effort to put it out, you can easily end up losing the whole building and putting many lives at risk due to something as easily contained as a single piece of paper burning in a bin.

[rjh01]

Just occurred to me why there is a difference of opinion as to what to do in a fire at work. In Australia buildings are very safe in a fire. If you start a fire on one floor it will take a long time for it to get to another floor. As in, practice never. The fire brigade will turn up within minutes and be able to put out the fire, which will still be confined to one floor. Between one floor and another is concrete.

Fire fighters have had years of training before they fight their first fire. People like us have little hope. On one training session they showed us a youtube of workers trying to put out a grass fire outside the building. It was very funny. Things went very wrong. Pity I cannot find it to show it to you.

[Salerio]

Sorry, but if that is actually the official position at your workplace, they are seriously negligent. Every workplace should have the relevant types of fire extinguisher easily accessible from anywhere in the building, and everyone should have training in how to use them, including proper hands-on training and not just theory.

Obviously this doesn't mean everyone should become gung-ho firefighters if a fire does occur, but proper procedure would be to alert the building there is a fire, tackle it if at all possible, and then leave if either it is not possible for you to put it out or if your first attempt to do so fails. As Skeptichick says, if you just run away without making any effort to put it out, you can easily end up losing the whole building and putting many lives at risk due to something as easily contained as a single piece of paper burning in a bin.

We had a similar policy when I worked in a large engineering company. At the induction meetings we were told that there was a deliberate policy of always and only placing fire-extinguishers at the exit doors. The principle being that when you reach the appliance you grab it, turn around and think "sod this" hit the fire button and leave.

It was strongly emphasized that the only fire we should ever tackle on our own was a waste bin filled with paper if someone dropped a cig end in (no smoking ban in those days). Anything else calls for an evacuation.

[ponderingturtle]

The big problem with chemical and powder extinguishers is that, even assuming you use them correctly and in the right situation, they make one hell of a mess. Obviously that's not a reason not to use one if you don't have to, but if it's a choice between one of them and a blanket, or simply a lid and moving off the heat, the extinguisher should really be the last resort.

Sure, but as it was run and wait for your house to catch fire more while waiting for the fire department it is much better to have to clean up a mess than replace a kitchen.

[Toke]

At smokediving course we saw what happens with a pot of burning oil if you add a cup of water (with a long stick). It gave an impressive fireball, the message was "do not do this at home".
You are supposed to turn off the heat and put a lid on.

Powderextinguisers are fine for solids and liquids, but tend to total cars and swichtboards due to the corrosive nature of the powder.
Swichtboards tend to have an CO2 extinguiser next to them.

[Dr H]

This makes me think of the warning our teacher gave us in welding class back in high school; a cigarette lighter will explode with the force of two sticks of dynamite if a spark hits it. It would blow your leg off.

And weld your contact lenses to your corneas. ;)

[King of the Americas]

You guys are fishing in the wrong pond...

Finely ground uncooked popcorn has the big bang you are looking for. The information I've seen suggested a 5X dynamite explosion of equal amounts by weight.

Ol'Redenbacher was the real threat!

[ponderingturtle]

You guys are fishing in the wrong pond...

Finely ground uncooked popcorn has the big bang you are looking for. The information I've seen suggested a 5X dynamite explosion of equal amounts by weight.

Ol'Redenbacher was the real threat!

Why would someone ever grind popcorn? Just use dent corn and be done with it.

[Whiplash]

This makes me think of the warning our teacher gave us in welding class back in high school; a cigarette lighter will explode with the force of two sticks of dynamite if a spark hits it. It would blow your leg off. The Mythbusters showed us that this just isn't so.


I missed this post earlier. Something like this happened to me. I was playing a game on my computer, and I lit a cig and was smoking it, and put my lighter down next to the ashtray. After a bit, I kind of threw it quickly into the ashtry (was trying to play game at the same time) and didn't think about it. It apparently had not gone in well, rolled out, and was sitting with the chery of the cig right on the lighter.

A few seconds later, KAPOW, right under my chin.

No damage, nothing missing. But it scared the hell out of me.

[King of the Americas]

Why would someone ever grind popcorn? Just use dent corn and be done with it.

Why would someone try to light "sugar"?

For the fun of it, of course...

"Dent corn" doesn't have the bang that popcorn can yield.

[ponderingturtle]

Why would someone try to light "sugar"?

For the fun of it, of course...

"Dent corn" doesn't have the bang that popcorn can yield.

Doesn't make any sense the difference in popcorn is the thickness of the outer casing, premitting it to build up steam pressure until it ruptures.

[ElectricVoodoo]

Doesn't make any sense the difference in popcorn is the thickness of the outer casing, premitting it to build up steam pressure until it ruptures.

When Little Billy comes home from school asking "What's the Big Bang Theory?" you can give him a visual.

[technoextreme]

I don't trust mythbuster, I trust numbers and chemistry. As I said, if there is a perfect combustion, 7.5 mj per kg for dynamite, 16 mj per kg for sugar. If I made any error anywhere, please tell.
Well that is just great. Where are your numbers and chemistry? Your missing a bunch. Under the right conditions you can turn it into rocket fuel but there is no way in hell that isn't happening without an oxidizer:
http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/How-to-make-sky-rockets/sugar-rocket-motor.asp

[Beerina]

Actually, yes, be afraid. Sugar and flour are flammable. When it's finely divided, it has a great deal of surface area, and becomes a lot more reactive.

Same as a coal mine explosion, or grain silo, or fuel-air device, where the explosive liquid is distributed as per an atomizer. The latter turned out to be very difficult to achieve in practice for large volumes of explosive, and hence the daisycutter and MOAB bombs were actually just gigantic piles of high explosives.

The Rooskie's new superbomb claims to be a fuel-air device. True, or a lie as per Cold War days?

[Ness36]

I got a miniature taste of this by sprinkling cornstarch into a frying pan, The part that missed the pan and got near the gas burner flame made a nice WOOOSH sound and burned up immediately. I was suprised!