Scrap the Constitution???

[St_Hereticus]

In an interview with the men's magazine Cigar Afficianado, General Tommy Franks said that in the event of a major WMD attack on either the U.S. or one of its allies, that kills lots of people, the Constitution would likely be scrapped in favor of a more military form of government: Gen. Franks Doubts Constitution Will Survive WMD Attack (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/11/20/185048.shtml)

Given what I've read about Operation Northwoods (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html), I wouldn't put it past our government to engineer such an occurance in order to institute martial law, as I suspect they engineered, or at least provoked and then allowed, 9/11.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I greatly fear for the future of our great Republic!

[Ed]

Originally posted by St_Hereticus
In an interview with the men's magazine Cigar Afficianado, General Tommy Franks said that in the event of a major WMD attack on either the U.S. or one of its allies, that kills lots of people, the Constitution would likely be scrapped in favor of a more military form of government: Gen. Franks Doubts Constitution Will Survive WMD Attack (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/11/20/185048.shtml)

Given what I've read about Operation Northwoods (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html), I wouldn't put it past our government to engineer such an occurance in order to institute martial law, as I suspect they engineered, or at least provoked and then allowed, 9/11.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I greatly fear for the future of our great Republic!

I think that the downside of such a conspiracy would outweigh any perceived benefit.

[Suddenly]

There is a difference between prediction and advocacy. If Franks was saying that this is a likely result, that's one thing. If he is saying that this is the result he would want to bring about, I wonder if he isn't in violation of his oath. That whole "defend the constitution against foreign and domestic enemies" thing.

[The Fool]

Sorry folks, any news item from newsmax is automatically ignored by this fool........ I believe you can judge a site from the adds it runs, Newsmax has dropped its "miracle water machine" (maybe RichardG, another newsmax fan, purchased the last one) They now are advertising a brilliant credit card debt removal service...

I quote...



The theory of debt reduction we employ is founded in law and has had excellent results at arbitration and within the courts. The end result is that we are able to eliminate almost any unsecured credit debt issued by national banks – including credit cards and lines of credit such as VISA, Master Card and American Express. After the process, in most of the cases that we have seen, not only is the debt eliminated, but you will end up with an arbitration award in the amount of the last balance. (In other words if you owed $5,000 dollars on a VISA card, after the process, not only will the debt be eliminated but the bank that issued the VISA will owe you $5,000!)


cool, they can have my cards..... What sort of person do they imagine will swallow this stuff? Newsmax....what a joke.

[DavidJames]

"What sort of person do they imagine will swallow this stuff? Newsmax....what a joke."

I would say they know their readers quite well.

[Gem]

I believe you can judge a site from the adds it runs

Or by the books they sell.

Also, I don't think the government would "scrap" the constitution. It's too obvious and even if a nuke explodes in New York, they aren't likely to "scrap" it openly.

Gem

[St_Hereticus]

Originally posted by The Fool
Sorry folks, any news item from newsmax is automatically ignored by this fool........ I believe you can judge a site from the adds it runs, Newsmax has dropped its "miracle water machine" (maybe RichardG, another newsmax fan, purchased the last one) They now are advertising a brilliant credit card debt removal service...

I quote...



The theory of debt reduction we employ is founded in law and has had excellent results at arbitration and within the courts. The end result is that we are able to eliminate almost any unsecured credit debt issued by national banks – including credit cards and lines of credit such as VISA, Master Card and American Express. After the process, in most of the cases that we have seen, not only is the debt eliminated, but you will end up with an arbitration award in the amount of the last balance. (In other words if you owed $5,000 dollars on a VISA card, after the process, not only will the debt be eliminated but the bank that issued the VISA will owe you $5,000!)


cool, they can have my cards..... What sort of person do they imagine will swallow this stuff? Newsmax....what a joke.

Isn't that an ad hominem fallacy?

[Zep]

Lessee.men's magazine Cigar AfficianadoAm I right in assuming this is NOT one of the more respected US news journals?

[Tony]

Originally posted by Zep
Lessee.Am I right in assuming this is NOT one of the more respected US news journals?

Its not a news journal, it's a cigar magazine.

[Dancing David]

They can pry the Constitution from my cold dead hands, the military is sworn to defend the constitution for a reason.

Frag the bastid!

[BTox]

Originally posted by St_Hereticus
Given what I've read about Operation Northwoods (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html), I wouldn't put it past our government to engineer such an occurance in order to institute martial law, as I suspect they engineered, or at least provoked and then allowed, 9/11.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I greatly fear for the future of our great Republic!

Woowoo!

BTW, my neighbor believed the Clinton admin actually conducted the Oklahoma City bombing so they could go after right-wing militia. Equally lunatic rantings, IMO.

[Skeptic]

There is a difference between prediction and advocacy. If Franks was saying that this is a likely result, that's one thing. If he is saying that this is the result he would want to bring about, I wonder if he isn't in violation of his oath.

FWIW, the link from newsmax.com says that Gen. Franks "expressed his worries" that this will happen, and had not advocated it.

Then again, any site that advertises the "eliminate credit card debt" scam or books like "Clinton--Evil American King" cannot be taken too seriously in their alleged "summary" of what Franks said.

[BTox]

Originally posted by Skeptic
[B]Then again, any site that advertises... books like "Clinton--Evil American King" cannot be taken too seriously in their alleged "summary" of what Franks said.

C'mon, that book sounds like a nice piece of historical non-fiction. ;)

They also advertise a bunch of ridiculous health scams, such as seasilver, coral calcium and the like.

[Zep]

Tony: Its not a news journal, it's a cigar magazine.<h1>DER!!</h1>So I'll read it when I take up smoking cigars, NOT when I want to read about US politics.

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by Zep
<h1>DER!!</h1>So I'll read it when I take up smoking cigars, NOT when I want to read about US politics.

You gotta admit though, if something weird happens and Franks takes over the country and then tries to conquor the world it seems somehow right that future historians will note he tipped his hand in a cigar magazine.

[Michael Redman]

The President can currently decide that the Constitution does not apply to an individual if he deems it to be in the interest of the State to deny the individual's Constitutional rights.

The scrapping is well underway.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Suddenly
There is a difference between prediction and advocacy. If Franks was saying that this is a likely result, that's one thing. If he is saying that this is the result he would want to bring about, I wonder if he isn't in violation of his oath. That whole "defend the constitution against foreign and domestic enemies" thing.
From reading the article, I suspect it's a prediction, offered as a warning. This is a significant quote from the General::

“It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event somewhere in the Western world – it may be in the United States of America – that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass, casualty-producing event. Which in fact, then begins to unravel the fabric of our Constitution. Two steps, very, very important.”

My emphasis

[St_Hereticus]

Originally posted by Zep
Lessee.Am I right in assuming this is NOT one of the more respected US news journals?

Actually, this is one of the reasons that I like to post such articles here - to let people know what's going on, and to get an assessment of the source, since I don't always know the reliability of these things, being less well-read than many of you. I appreciate the feedback!

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by BillyTK

From reading the article, I suspect it's a prediction, offered as a warning. This is a significant quote from the General::



Sounds like somebody with poor reading comprehension got a hold of a copy of the remark on a slow news day. These remarks are pretty harmless. Franks needs some seasoning if he wants to get into politics, he should have known to toss in a "but I will be at the forefront of defending the Constitution if, god forbid, this came to pass" or some such. Make it real clear that he isn't going to be pulling a Al Haig if someone accidently mixes ammonia and chlorine bleach together...

[St_Hereticus]

Originally posted by Zep
Lessee.Am I right in assuming this is NOT one of the more respected US news journals?

Actually, this is one of the reasons that I like to post such articles here - to let people know what's going on, and to get an assessment of the source, since I don't always know the reliability of these things, being less well-read than many of you. I appreciate the feedback!

[shanek]

Originally posted by St_Hereticus
In an interview with the men's magazine Cigar Afficianado, General Tommy Franks said that in the event of a major WMD attack on either the U.S. or one of its allies, that kills lots of people, the Constitution would likely be scrapped in favor of a more military form of government:

All I have to say here is, watch the movie The Siege.

[shanek]

Originally posted by St_Hereticus
Isn't that an ad hominem fallacy?

The Fool excels at those.

[Zep]

Originally posted by Suddenly
You gotta admit though, if something weird happens and Franks takes over the country and then tries to conquor the world it seems somehow right that future historians will note he tipped his hand in a cigar magazine. I imagine it will be the first source that historians will go to, naturally! :)

Wasn't this mixing politics and cigars business tried once before? Some recent presidential intern or other was involved with one in some way...

[The Fool]

Originally posted by St_Hereticus


Isn't that an ad hominem fallacy?

Do you think that the products advertised on the site speaks to the credability of the site? Have you looked at the newsmax site? Unfortunately you are too late to pick up one of the miracle water polarising purifiers, Newsmax is a joke.....

[The Fool]

Originally posted by shanek


The Fool excels at those.
Thank you.... If you need any pointers just ask, your current habit of just lurching from thread to thread calling people liars and bigots could do with a bit of polish.....

[Skeptic]

Wasn't this mixing politics and cigars business tried once before? Some recent presidential intern or other was involved with one in some way...

There is also Castro, and, further back, Churchill (who of course was not a dictator, but was a powerful man), etc.

Come to think of it, "Cigar Affictionado" would probably be VERY interested what kind of cigar the coming "dictator of the USA" is going to smoke...

[Skeptic]

Originally posted by shanek


The Fool excels at those [ad hominem attacks--Sk.].

Boom, another irony meter gone.

I'd trade it in, but apparently the warranty only allows a replacement if you bring in one in perfect working condition.

Ah well.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by shanek


All I have to say here is, watch the movie The Siege.
Why? Is General Franks' interview in there as well?

[Ed]

Originally posted by Tony


Its not a news journal, it's a cigar magazine.

Well.... It is a slick, hyper upscale publication, think Architectural Digest.

I have no reason to think that their reporting is anything other than professional.

[shanek]

Originally posted by BillyTK
Why? Is General Franks' interview in there as well?

No; it's a very good movie that examines the use of martial law to combat terrorism and the diminishing of freedom.

[Zep]

Originally posted by shanek
No; it's a very good movie that examines the use of martial law to combat terrorism and the diminishing of freedom. But it's still a movie...

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by St_Hereticus

Given what I've read about Operation Northwoods (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html), I wouldn't put it past our government to engineer such an occurance in order to institute martial law, as I suspect they engineered, or at least provoked and then allowed, 9/11.


Hoo boy.

So I don't know the first thing about whatreallyhappened.com. Never heard of it before. So I go to the home page. I click on a random story link. (http://www.unknownnews.net/031204a-gh.html) This takes me to unknownnews.net which I have also never heard of.

From the story:


They own the government and own the press. They write the laws to suit their crimes. This is the America that I see as I consider the rubber bullet welts on my back, courtesy of the Miami police.

It is fear, fear mixed with machismo that has raised these welts on my back. Those uniformed, legalized brutes in Miami were responding to months of indoctrination. Months of drills. Months of purposefully-instilled apprehension.

Rubber bullet welts. He complaining about rubber bullet welts. Yes, our country is so evil we hoard our lead jealously. Don't waste it on malcontents. And we drill, drill, drill, for months so's we don't accidentally kill anyone, because that's just too much paperwork when you kill someone.

All kinds of paranoid, fun stuff at whatreallyhappened.com. I did a search for anything they might have to say about UFOs but came up empty. But it just kinda felt like one of those, you know?

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by shanek


No; it's a very good movie that examines the use of martial law to combat terrorism and the diminishing of freedom.
Excuse me if I'm a little skeptical about a "Hollywood blockbuster" starring Bruce Willis?

[Tony]

Originally posted by BillyTK

Excuse me if I'm a little skeptical about a "Hollywood blockbuster" starring Bruce Willis?


It wasnt a blockbuster. The movie sucked.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Tony



It wasnt a blockbuster. The movie sucked.
I meant in style, not sales, but thanks for the tip; I won't be rushing down to Blockbusters to rent it out.