How long untill...

[Correa Neto]

someone say that its an alien face?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3256228.stm

[arcticpenguin]

That's an alien face!

How long was that? 3 minutes?

[Andonyx]

Okay just to be a negative nelly...

That kind of looks like a big fat chunk of rock to me. So just like we can say the thing on Mars is a coincidentally arranged pile of dust...what scientific means can we use to say this is definitely the work of an ancestor?


"This is not just a fortuitous bone shoved into a hole in a rock. Whether the Neanderthal artist saw a rock that looked like a face and modified it, or conceived the thing from the start - who knows? Either way it is pretty sophisticated."

I mean who's to say really? So they used tools on it to shape it. Maybe it's a decorative rock holder. Maybe the guy just really needed a place to shove his rock. Maybe the kids made it for him class for father's day?

I'm just not sure that we should jump to the conclusion that it is supposed to be a face...

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by Andonyx
Okay just to be a negative nelly...

That kind of looks like a big fat chunk of rock to me. So just like we can say the thing on Mars is a coincidentally arranged pile of dust...what scientific means can we use to say this is definitely the work of an ancestor?

Actually the current state of evidence is clearly in support of the theory that Neanderthals are not ancestors of modern humans.

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=15326&highlight=neanderthal

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin

Actually the current state of evidence is clearly in support of the theory that Neanderthals are not ancestors of modern humans.

Smart Alek.

[pupdog]

That picture of the head looks like you need a bit of imagination to see it. How about rock carvings of dinosaurs & mammoth? See
http://www.jackcuozzo.com/bernifal.html

[Correa Neto]

Hmmm... I see the head of a snapper turtle on the left with its gapping mouth ready to eat a small fish...

Uh... Noah surely must have had a lot of problems to handle the dinosaurs on the ark. Maybe he dumped them on the sea for misbehaving and that´s why there are no more dinos around (except those who adpated to the water, like nessie, champ, ogopogo, etc.). BTW, I can hardly imagine Noah & co. raising a tyrannosaur...

Edited to add an OT rant- I´ve done a lot of spelunking, and there are plenty of caves open for public visitation without artificial lights. So, the guy´s rant is pointless. There are plenty of evidence on how people could go deep in to caves without electric light. Indians went deep into Mammoth cave using small sticks of wood that can still be found in some places at the cave´s floor. No need for the "large fires" or infrared vision... The description of the visit to the cave is, well... Stupid and idiotic. There are cave paintings of lizzards here in Brazil. If there are few in Europe, chances are that lizzards were not that important for food for that people.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Andonyx
Okay just to be a negative nelly...

That kind of looks like a big fat chunk of rock to me. So just like we can say the thing on Mars is a coincidentally arranged pile of dust...what scientific means can we use to say this is definitely the work of an ancestor?

From the article:
The mask was found during an excavation of old river sediments in front of a Palaeolithic cave encampment. Tool and bone discoveries suggest Neanderthals used the location to light a fire and prepare food.

Triangular in shape, the object shows clear evidence, the researchers say, of having been worked - flakes have been chipped off the block to make it more face-like.

If the "mask" was found at or near an area that had been the home of some family of Neaderthals, then it is possible the "mask" is more than an chance formation.

However, if it is shown not to be the handywork Neanderthals, it would prove the existence of Intelligent Design and therefore existence of the Christian God.

(Note: That last paragraph is for satirical value only, dont take it seriously.)

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by Yahweh


From the article:


If the "mask" was found at or near an area that had been the home of some family of Neaderthals, then it is possible the "mask" is more than an chance formation.

However, if it is shown not to be the handywork Neanderthals, it would prove the existence of Intelligent Design and therefore existence of the Christian God.

(Note: That last paragraph is for satirical value only, dont take it seriously.)

Oh no I don't doubt that it was shaped that way by Neanderthals. (Actually I don't really doubt the conlusions of the scientists that much, that's their thing man, not mine.)

But I'm saying maybe it was just a tool pouch. I mean the rock was shoved into another hole, it didn't form there, so somebody did it on purpose. But it seems like saying it was a purposefully constructed face is jumping to conlusions.

I'm just saying we are skeptical when nutjobs immediately assume any remotely familiar shape in dust from other planetary bodies must have been created by intelligent life...

Then it seems to me that the assumption that this is some form of artistic representation of the human form is a bit bold, especially since it contradicts some long-standing thought about when artistic expression entered the primate-on-down (thanks AP) culture.

[tracer]

The real problem with trying to piece together how the Neanderthal lived, what kinds of tools they used, whether they had art, etc., is that most artifacts are not going to survive for thousands of years.

We think of the Neanderthal as "stone age" because stone tools and carvings are what have survived. But how do we know they didn't write most of their interesting stuff down on paper? Paper wouldn't survive for 28,000 years, y'know.

[Hand Bent Spoon]

^Because early writings invariably occur painted on rock, carved into rock, or formed into clay. Natural 'papers' like papyrus come next in development, then paper much, much later. It's a logical progression, just like writing itself starts out simple (marking the contents of jugs for example) and then becomes more complex (the latest King novel for instance).

To say the neanderthals had paper is just speculation with zero evidence to support it. I don't believe any neanderthal writings on rock or in clay have ever been found, much less any paper making tools or surviving fragments. To say they had paper is not unlike saying they had PDAs. After all, we can't prove neanderthals didn't have PDAs can we? We just know there is no evidence for that, and it is therefore highly unlikely.

And when we get new evidence of how neanderthals lived? We change our model of what they were like. That's science.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Hand Bent Spoon
To say the neanderthals had paper is just speculation with zero evidence to support it.
Speaking of which, Neanderthals were known to fly (using their big red wings) and prey on small mammals and young bigfoots...

[Thanz]

From the article:
"It should finally nail the lie that Neanderthals had no art," Paul Bahn, the British rock art expert, told BBC News Online. "It is an enormously important object."
Lie? It's no lie, buster. That's no mask. It's a rock with a bone through it. It's not art. The neanderthals had no art! Hear me? NO ART FOR NEANDERTHALS!!

PHHHHPPPPTTTTTTTTTTT! :p

That's what I think of your "enourmously important obect". And you're a poopy-head.




Sorry for that outburst. You just don't know how much you have invested in the fact that neanderthals had no art until someone calls it a LIE and then purports to end it!! Of all the nerve! Oh crap, there I go again....

[Ed]

Originally posted by Yahweh

Speaking of which, Neanderthals were known to fly (using their big red wings) and prey on small mammals and young bigfoots...

Which they would wing with their laser rifles ...