70 reasons to Fisk

[NWO Sentryman]

Now that i have been listening to the other JREFers, i have decided to bring this up again for a good old fashioned fisking.

I will be doing this fisking across 7 posts (ten for each)

http://independentsunbound.blogspot.com/2007/06/70-reasons-to-doubt-official-story-of.html

1. The president of the United States, when informed that a second plane had struck the World Trade Center, continued to read about a pet goat.

Yes, but the President is supposed to remain calm in this sort of situation, while the Secret service arrange a plan. What was he supposed to do? cause a panic? Arouse more suspicion?

2. This same president was moved from his high rise hotel in Genoa Italy two months previously for security reasons, because of a known al Qaeda plot for hijacking and "crashing an airliner into the Genoa summit of industrialized nations." The assumption in July 2001 was that there existed a plot that "terrorists would try to crash a plane to kill Bush and other leaders" (LA Times, 9-27-01).

Em, completely different situations. How does a hotel with other leaders compare with a school? Next.

3. The Secret Service did not secure the president, even though his location was publicly disclosed in the press for days before the school photo op on 9/11. This was a break in standard operating procedures that left the president vulnerable in the middle of a purported "attack" on America.

Emm, how would terrorists know which school he is in? Bush was in a very developed region, and a terrorist cannot tell schools from the Sky. the Secret Sevice probably decided that it was best to stay there as they already had apparatus for security. Also, the president was already secure

. NORAD has told three different and conflicting stories explaining why no jet fighters intercepted any of the four hijacked airliners.

And your source is david ray griffin? And that 7 minutes quote came form a computer game. As for the three claims, they could have been updating. For example. Is loose change conflicting with itself when it gets to 2nd edition?

5. Vice President Richard Cheney was placed in charge of anti-terrorism training and military preparedness exercises by Bush on May 8, 2001. This gave him command authority during the 9/11 attacks because as many as nine war game exercises involving military and intelligence agencies were occurring simultaneously.

Em, this is just attempting to reach a foregone conclusion. It could just as easily be coincidence. Why would this be signs of a conspiracy? It would only be suspicious if it were days before, but not months. Also, there is no evidence that Cheney was in charge of military infrastructure.

6. The military's "Air Piracy" regulations were rewritten on June 1st 2001 to require the "Secretary of Defense" to give "approval" for military escort aircraft in the event of a hijacking. Donald Rumsfeld gave no "approval" that day.

Rumsfeld would have to confirm that flights were hijacked. Then they would have to give orders to intercept and destroy, which could take far longer than ten minutes. Also, there were exceptions.


7. More than an hour and fifteen minutes after the first hijacking was reported by FAA, the US military headquarters at the Pentagon was struck without any defensive action taken to stop the attack. The impact was on the west side, for some reason the only side that had been "hardened" with blast-proof windows and specially reinforced walls. None of the highest ranking military leadership were located on that side.

Ever considered that the miltiary brass could have been meeting elsewhere? Could have been at home?

SAMS could only cover a minimum height. The hijacked plane could have flown under the minimum height. SAM sites and radar are not omniscient, despite what spy movies want you to believe.

8. (TRANSCRIPT) Air Force General Richard Myers: "When it became clear what the threat was, we did scramble fighter aircraft, AWACS, radar aircraft and tanker aircraft to begin to establish orbits in case other aircraft showed up in the FAA system that were hijacked..."
Senator Carl Levin: "Was that order that you just described given before or after the Pentagon was struck? Do you know?"

Air Force General Richard Myers: "That order, to the best of my knowledge, was after the Pentagon was struck."

Reality intrudes. It became "clear what the threat was," the moment the first hijacked airliner struck the North Tower at 8:45am. This congressional testimony is inexcusable and grounds for investigation into criminal negligence, dereliction of duty, and treason.

No. They have to confirm what had happened, and it takes a while to scramble fighters. Confirmation could take a long time as they have to search through every aircraft that had ever been there. By that logic, we should have fired nukes at the first alarm. They have to be checked and double checked.

9. "President Bush personally asked Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle Tuesday to limit the congressional investigation into the events of September 11..." ..."Tuesday's discussion followed a rare call to Daschle from Vice President Dick Cheney last Friday to make the same request."

We do not know what they asked to limit. How does that assume they did it.

10. The Project For a New American Century, which wrote of the need for a "catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor," had members throughout the top of the government on 9/11 including Cheney, Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith, Bolton, Armitage, Abrams, Wurmser, as well as Bush's brother, the governor of Florida, Jeb.

Quote mine of the decade. read the full text. It talks about military preparedness as well as references to previous events in history.

Note to JREFers, this is just a first attempt at a fisking. PM me if you have any further knowledge.

[thought_fugitive]

Kind of unnecessary to be honest.

[Dave Rogers]

It's been pointed out many times before, but (5) and (6) are simply not true. Cheney was in charge of consequence management for a hypothetical WMD attack - in other words, co-ordinating the emergency services - and there's never been any evidence that this involved any military command authority; and the June 2001 rewrite of the air piracy regulations actually introduced exceptions to the rule, in existence at least since 1997, that the Secretary of State was to approve all requests for military assistance.

As a general rule, it's a good idea to check that truther claims are actually true before bothering to respond to them. Most of the time they aren't. http://www.911myths.com/ is one of the best places to start looking.

Dave

[beachnut]

...
Rumsfeld would have to confirm that flights were hijacked. Then they would have to give orders to intercept and destroy, which could take far longer than ten minutes.

SAMS could only cover a minimum height. The hijacked plane could have flown under the minimum height. SAM sites and radar are not omniscient, despite what spy movies want you to believe.
... When were hijacked planes shot down in the past? How would you know a plane was going to hit a building? What building? Try again on this one.

What SAMs? What are you talking about?

[dudalb]

I love the way that website claims to be "the voice of Indenpendent voters" when I bet that 90% of the Indpendent voters would consider them to be nutjobs.

[defaultdotxbe]

Emm, how would terrorists know which school he is in? Bush was in a very developed region, and a terrorist cannot tell schools from the Sky. the Secret Sevice probably decided that it was best to stay there as they already had apparatus for security.
to expand on this:

1: because the president was not in immediate danger (there had not been any direct threats to him or his location) the secret service could not move him without his permission, if he wanted to stay he stayed

2: the school was already a secure location (it would have been secured by the secret service prior to the presidents arrival)

3: since the school was already secure it would be preferable to keep the president there until more is known about the situation, rather than move him to an unsecured public street

[NWO Sentryman]

A fisking (Part 2)


11. Four days before 9/11, Jeb Bush activated the Florida National Guard, "Based on the potential massive damage to life and property that may result from an act of terrorism at a Florida port." (Executive Order 01-261).

And that is related to 9/11 How?


12. On 9/11 Jeb Bush declared a "State of Emergency" in Florida (E.O. 01-262). "I hereby delegate to the Department of Law Enforcement the operational authority to coordinate and direct the law enforcement resources and other resources of any and all state, regional and local governmental agencies..." And by 2am on 9/12/01, Jeb Bush was reported to have confiscated the police records in Venice, FL related to the Huffman Aviation flight school. Two rental trucks full of these records drove onto a C-130 military aircraft at Sarasota Airport and flew out with Jeb Bush aboard.


Of course you'd do that. The USA had just been attacked by four planes. It would be taken away to be investigated.


13. Huffman Aviation flight school, where Mohamed Atta and other alleged hijackers trained, had a Lear jet seized by the DEA with "43 pounds of heroin" onboard. No one was ever prosecuted in connection with the "biggest drug seizure in central Florida history."

And When was this?


14. The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks on the United States ("9/11 Commission") was a blatant and obvious cover-up under the control of Bush administration member and "Executive Director" Phillip Zelikow. This cover-up can be proven easily with one example: the time of Dick Cheney's arrival at the Presidential Emergency Operations Center ("PEOC bunker"). Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta testified under oath that Cheney was present at 9:20am and issuing "orders" related to the plane that struck the Pentagon. Mineta's testimony was completely omitted from their final report, and a fraudulent time of 9:58am for Cheney's arrival was given instead (book pg 40 / .pdf file pg 57).


15. The 9/11 Commission was originally only given $3 million to investigate the greatest terrorist attacks on US soil in our history. The Bush administration then witheld requested documents forcing the Commissioners to issue subpoenas to FAA and the Department of Defense.

And how is that suspicious? What good would witholding documents do if subpoenas are issued? Orginally 3 million, then what was the final grant?


16. So many lies were told by Bush administration officials regarding warnings before the attacks, that it is difficult to count them. Ari Fleischer's two word response, "No warnings," aboard Air Force One on 9/11, sums up the administration's claim.

Bush received a memo based on clinton-era intelligence that something big would happen involving al-qaeda and airplanes. But it did not say when or how.


17. Contrary to the Bush administration's claim: "Newspapers in Germany, France, Russia and London reported in the months before September 11th of a blizzard of warnings delivered to the Bush administration from all points on the compass. The German intelligence service BND warned American and Israeli agencies that terrorists were planning to hijack commercial aircraft and use them as weapons to attack important American targets. Egypt warned of a similar plane-based plot against Bush during the G-8 summit in Genoa last June [2001], a warning taken so seriously that anti-aircraft batteries were placed around Columbus Airport in Italy. Last August [2001], Russian intelligence services notified the CIA that 25 terrorist pilots had been trained for suicide missions, and Putin himself confirmed that this warning was delivered 'in the strongest possible terms' specifically regarding threats to airports and government buildings." -Newsweek, May 20, 2002

Any links to those reports? All they said was that planes were going to be used for something, but what, they did not know.


18. In July of 2001, CIA Director George Tenet and CIA counterterrorism chief J. Cofer Black claim to have made a detailed presentation and warned National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Attorney General John Ashcroft of imminent attacks on US soil by Al Qaeda operatives. This was also omitted from the 9/11 Commission Report.

The 9/11 commission was to investigate the events leading up to and including September 11. Not to investigate the US Gvoernment, although ti blasted the Intel services for failure.


19. Many more warnings stretching back to the early 1990s were known to intelligence agencies and to FBI. These warnings expose as a lie National Security Advisor Rice's response: "I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center, take another one and slam it into the Pentagon; that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile."


Em, they involved hijackings, not piledriving planes into buildings. Hijacking is different from using as a missile.

20. March 7, 2001: "The Russian Permanent Mission at the United Nations secretly submits "an unprecedentedly detailed report" to the UN Security Council about bin Laden, his whereabouts, details of his al-Qaeda network, Afghan drug running, and Taliban connections to Pakistan and the ISI. The report provides "a listing of all bin Laden's bases, his government contacts and foreign advisers," and enough information to potentially locate and kill him. It is said to contain an "astonishing degree of information." The US fails to use the information in any noticable manner. Alex Standish, the editor of the highly respected Jane's Intelligence Review, concludes that the attacks of 9/11 were less of an American intelligence failure than the result of "a political decision not to act against bin Laden." [Jane's Intelligence Review, 10/5/2001; Times of India, 10/8/2001]

And that proves 9/11 was an inside job how?

[jhunter1163]

We see a lot of this kind of thing from Truthers, applying 9/12 thinking to 9/11. The idea of using a hijacked plane as a weapon, though it might have been considered by military planners, simply wasn't in the public consciousness on 9/11. When the planes were hijacked, the passengers assumed they were going to Cuba or something and didn't do anything about it. This was a one-time thing for al-Qaeda. The passengers would now surely stop a hijacking attempt, should one be tried.

[Tweeter]

to expand on this:

1: because the president was not in immediate danger (there had not been any direct threats to him or his location) the secret service could not move him without his permission, if he wanted to stay he stayed

2: the school was already a secure location (it would have been secured by the secret service prior to the presidents arrival)

3: since the school was already secure it would be preferable to keep the president there until more is known about the situation, rather than move him to an unsecured public street

Wrong.
How was the building secure from planes?
He put innocent children at risk, or did he?

[BigAl]

Wrong.
How was the building secure from planes?
He put innocent children at risk, or did he?

Florida has damn few visual navigation aides. The Bad Guys didn't know the location in advance to get the GPS coordinates.

Finding a low building in a state as flat and featureless as Florida while flying at 500MPH at altitude is a very different proposition compared to following a major river until the tallest building in the world shows up in your windshield and the pilot doesn't have to dive. In Florida the pilot might hit the wrong building.

[Klimax]

Florida has damn few visual navigation aides. The Bad Guys didn't know the location in advance to get the GPS coordinates.

Finding a low building in a state as flat and featureless as Florida while flying at 500MPH at altitude is a very different proposition compared to following a major river until the tallest building in the world shows up in your windshield and the pilot doesn't have to dive. In Florida the pilot might hit the wrong building.

Not that the pilot would complain too much.