What would you say?

[jimmygun]

What would you say to a friend that just told you they had lost their faith? Would you be consoling? Would you try to be a guide to their new path? Would you take advantage of their vulnerability?

I have been thinking lately that a lot depends on how I act toward the neophyte skeptic that would influence their future. Maybe I would scare them off with too much fervor, maybe I would push them away with the wrong methods. Do I have an agenda that is self serving and puts them off?

[Marquis de Carabas]

Be supportive but not heavy-handed. Give them some websites and/or the names of some books on skepticism. Let them know you're there to talk and listen should they feel the need. Encourage them to think for themselves. That's the point after all, isn't it?

Or scream "Heathen!" and beat them, your call.

[sparklecat]

As someone currently going through that... listen to them. Just hear what they have to say, listen when they're upset, let them talk about their questions, and be a general voice of reason. Don't push your views on them, just discuss issues and help them come to their own conclusions. Best thing you can do, and what I'm grateful to some of my friends for doing. :)

Justine

[Yahweh]

Marquis de Carabas has the right idea (no, not the part about clubbing the heathen, ignore that), be supportive but not heavy-handed. That is the best advice that can be given.

The process of losing faith is a tirelessly slow one (however gaining faith can happen in an instance given that you witness a miracle performed by god, and he announces you as the new messiah... but that never seems to happen anymore).

If that person wants information about losing faith, I say bring 'em on over the Randi boards.

[Mr Clingford]

Originally posted by Yahweh
(however gaining faith can happen in an instance given that you witness a miracle performed by god, and he announces you as the new messiah... but that never seems to happen anymore).
What does this mean?

Also, what does losing faith mean? If it means I am troubled by some 'things' and have questions, then ask away

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Mr Clingford
(however gaining faith can happen in an instance given that you witness a miracle performed by god, and he announces you as the new messiah... but that never seems to happen anymore).
------------------------------------------------------
What does this mean?
I just have a subtle sense of humor. I throw in a joke here are there in just about all of my posts.

I was making reference to the notion that if the Christian God wanted nobody to question his existence, he could probably take a few minutes out of his day and perform an undeniable miracle for everybody on the planet to witness.

The Messiah part was due to the fact that Jesus of Nazarene (Nazareth?) was not the first spiritual leader who claimed to be devine (Note: We dont know much about the life of the actual historical Jesus, we cant be sure if he ever claimed to be of some devine nature), there were quite a few prophets/spiritual teachers/self-proclaimed god-men before Jesus, it just so happens that the Jesus we all know and love was the first to make it big (his message of universal love and kindness to all people and your fellow man was what made him particularly popular). You can also interpret it to refer to the part where the Biblical Yahweh told Moses he was to lead the Jews.

Also, what does losing faith mean? If it means I am troubled by some 'things' and have questions, then ask away
While technically, "faith" means "belief in something without evidence", most people associate "religious faith" with a different context than the dictionary definition. I tend to use "losing faith" and "losing religious ideals" synonomously.

[Mr Clingford]

Originally posted by Yahweh

I was making reference to the notion that if the Christian God wanted nobody to question his existence, he could probably take a few minutes out of his day and perform an undeniable miracle for everybody on the planet to witness. What kind of a miracle? Some atheists would probably still deny God's existence!

The Messiah part was due to the fact that Jesus of Nazarene (Nazareth?) was not the first spiritual leader who claimed to be devine (Note: We dont know much about the life of the actual historical Jesus, we cant be sure if he ever claimed to be of some devine nature), there were quite a few prophets/spiritual teachers/self-proclaimed god-men before Jesus, it just so happens that the Jesus we all know and love was the first to make it big (his message of universal love and kindness to all people and your fellow man was what made him particularly popular). You can also interpret it to refer to the part where the Biblical Yahweh told Moses he was to lead the Jews.
You know, I think I was being picky! bUT WHAT WAS THE MIRACLE THAT jESUS (arse!) witnessed that led him to realise he was divine?

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by Mr Clingford
What kind of a miracle? Some atheists would probably still deny God's existence!


If so, then it must be a pretty lame God. Being omniscient, God knows exactly what sort of miracle will be required in order to convince a non-believer. Being omnipotent, he has the capability of providing it. If the supposed miracle does not convert the non-believer, then the only one to blame is God.

If God exists, then he apparantly doesn't care if I believe in him or not. He created me a rational, thinking being, and then requires "faith" to see him? He won't get it from me, and he knows it. Given that he hasn't done anything to change it (e.g. provide material evidence), I can only conclude that he really doesn't want to. Who am I to disagree with God? Isn't that a sin? Thus, I always figure if God exists, then it would be a sin for me to believe in him.

[Mr Clingford]

I don't think God is interested in us believing in his existence but in us experiencing relationship and love; he is not about proving an axiom.If God exists, then he apparantly doesn't care if I believe in him or not There might be some problems with meanings; for me 'believe in him' means more 'believe he exists'. Before i was a Christian (BTW I believe that not only Xtians will be with God) I never doubted the existence of God - it was only after my conversion that I doubted it.

God does care that we respond to him but doesn't want to force us. I think God wants us to respond to love - you can't be forced to love. I am afraid that I may not be clear here as I do not have answers, only thoughtsHe created me a rational, thinking being, and then requires "faith" to see him? Would you unpack this a bit please

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by Mr Clingford
I don't think God is interested in us believing in his existence but in us experiencing relationship and love;


How can you experience "relationship and love" with something you don't believe exists? Or do you not mean "relationship and love" with God, but others? And if that is the case, then what does God have to do with it?


he is not about proving an axiom. There might be some problems with meanings; for me 'believe in him' means more 'believe he exists'.


That's what I mean, too. But clearly you believe in God. What led you to that belief? Apparently something happened that was sufficient to make you believe in God. Thus, God provided you with what you need to believe he exists.



God does care that we respond to him but doesn't want to force us. I think God wants us to respond to love - you can't be forced to love. I am afraid that I may not be clear here as I do not have answers, only thoughts Would you unpack this a bit please

I have standards that I hold in my life before I accept something to be true. For example, if you cupped your hands and claimed you had a leprechaun inside them, I would not believe it. OTOH, if you showed me that leprechaun, I would believe it. Thus, there is a threshold of evidence that I require before I can believe something to be true. What that threshold is, I really can't say, but it doesn't matter because God is omnipotent, and thus knows exactly what it will take to get me to believe. He obviously hasn't provided it, yet, so I am only left to conclude that IF he exists, he either doesn't want me to believe, or doesn't care. I suppose there is a third option, that he wants me to be someone I am not (have a different standard for belief), but he was the one who created me this way, so that is his call.

It's not an issue of "forcing" me to believe anything. It is an issue of providing what is needed for me to chose to believe. Of course, given the whole omnipotence thing, it sort of leads to a contradiction, because he knows exactly what will take to get me to believe, but if you are going to go in that direction, then nothing we do is of a free choice and it is all pre-ordained. Assuming that you don't want to run that path, then ultimately the belief in God, given the proper evidence for his existence, would be my choice and not be forced in any way.

[Julia]

When someone expresses that they feel a loss of faith, I believe they are also expressing that they are in a crisis-mode. When we question something that we once felt secure with, then we are standing on a pretty wobbley foundation.

That would make me cautious. I don't believe I would want to do much more than listen, unless it is made quite clear that they want a certain type of feedback.

[rustypouch]

"Have a trophy."

[plindboe]

Originally posted by Mr Clingford
God does care that we respond to him but doesn't want to force us. I think God wants us to respond to love - you can't be forced to love. I am afraid that I may not be clear here as I do not have answers, only thoughts.


Do you mean that faith in God is our way of responding to God's love for us? If so, where do you see this love?

[EdipisReks]

all you need to solve your dilemma is one word: Cthulhu.