Can hypnosis work for memory recall?

[RexStevens]

Howdy ya all! My name is Rex Stevens I am a Viet Nam vet, 14 yrs in recovery
from alcohol abuse,And currently under counseling for ptsd.I drive a cab in Houston, Texas.I was here a while back and was told by a friend (who is a member),here is the greatest collection of minds in the planet,So I was, and still am in aw.Its like going to the greatest library in the land,only the books can talk.Back before I was seeking the answer to the following question.Can Hypnosis work for memory recall.As I am attempting to do what no vet in his right mind would do.That's recall what I can not remember.And I got a couple of good answers warning me of the dangers.The above is on the more serious side.Anyway I got invited back,but you notice they did not offer me cookies and they kept the goat away.(they told him one word,Tacos,well you don't see him)Now on the lighter side.Here goes,ya all better go tinkle now,Pause.How come alien abductions only happen in the USA,are the aliens prejudice or what.See what happens when a cab driver has to much time on his hands.Thank you ya all have a blessed day.

Split from: Looks like Korey Rowe was... right (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=113706)

[Minadin]

Hello Rex and welcome to the forum. I am not sure why you posted in this particular thread but thanks for bumping it, because it is a classic.

In any case, regarding hypnosis and repressed memories - there are a number of good threads regarding this subject - a quick search of the forums reveals discussions such as this:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=34188

Here's the whole list of what Google popped up:

Forum google Search on 'hypnosis' and 'memories' (http://www.google.com/custom?q=hypnosis%2C+memory&cof=S%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fforums.randi.org%3BAH%3Acente r%3BLH%3A75%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fforums.randi.org%2F images%2Fmisc%2Fsearchlogo.gif%3BLW%3A849%3BAWFID% 3A31746880203d5407%3B&domains=forums.randi.org&sitesearch=forums.randi.org)

Regarding the UFO phenomenon being more or less a purely 'American' thing, I seem to recall that a lot of the best crop circles happened in Britain. Also, it could be that it's simply more acceptable to talk about things like alien abduction in the USA than it is in other places, I am not sure. Then again, isn't David Icke from Britain? He's one of the main proponents of the fantasy that alien reptilian shape-shifters are already in control of most of the governments on planet Earth . . .

I hope all of your fares tip generously.

Regards,

Minadin

[RexStevens]

Dear Mr.Minadin Thank you for the information that you left for me.I posted in the wrong Place. I am rather new It won't happen again.

[Minadin]

Hey Rex, I saw that you had a low post count and fairly recent join date and suspected that you might be new.

I understand that you may be interested in a number of different paranormal / alternative beliefs and there is a lot of information on this forum about a large number of topics, ranging from cryptozoology (Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, Chupacabra) to paranormal (phychics, dowsing, ghosts) government conspiracy theories (9/11, JFK Assassination, Moon Landing Hoax, Roswell) magic, mentalism and a large number of related topics as well.

The site is run by a foundation that promotes skepticism as a rule, so most of the veteran posters here are typically not very likely to believe in these things in the absense of any verifiable evidence, though that doesn't stop us from discussing them at (occasionally great) length. We're also constantly confronted by believers who are more interested in convincing us of some wild theory that they can't back up rather than having a productive discussion about the facts we can all learn from, so please excuse any . . . curtness . . . on the part of the posters you meet here.

If you're willing to set aside some of your preconceptions and examine different subjects you find interesting with a critical eye, you will find this to be a most enlightening forum where you can learn a great deal. There is a wealth of intelligent and knowledgeable contributors here with some measure of expertise and experience in a myriad of subjects. I read more than I post, because of that, and I learn something interesting and new almost every day.

For instance, I recently discovered how to slice a banana without peeling it (great prank for the step-kids).

[Kariboo]

Hi Rex and welcome

First off I am sorry to hear you suffer prom PTSD, and wishing you a speedy recovery. As to the use of hypnosis (or guided imagination) to recover those memories: as far as I am aware the scientific research supports the idea that those recovered memories are not reliable. In the worst case it can give you traumatic memories that were not there before.

From what is known about memory is that repeated trauma leads to increased memory recall (invasive thoughts/reliving etc as often seen in PTSD). In general traumatic events are easily recalled, however surrounding information (for instance what color shoes was your attacker wearing? is not always formed because the person is preoccupied with other tasks (getting away or remembering the gun etc). Memories that have disappeared (after head trauma f.i.) or were never formed cannot be recalled.

Any memory that you would have after hypnosis would not be reliable. Memories like that are very influenced by what the therapist would like to hear. False memories are as real to the person experiencing them as the real thing so therein lies the harm. You are traumatized by something thet never happened. Here is a link to get you started:

http://www.skepdic.com/repressedmemory.html

As far as the aliens being a US phenomenon: I think it may have had to do with the way things were publicized and the availability of tv, comics etc. I have read (can't remember where) that abductions stories closely follow what is on tv/film etc. So people claiming to be abducted by little grays with big eyes only cropped up after that was broadcast, a testament to how peoples minds play tricks on them. America was ahead in the proliferation of tv's for a long time. It's just a guess though. Maybe Americans taste better :-)

[JoeTheJuggler]

Memory doesn't work like a video-recording. Memory is, in fact, quite plastic.

Hypnosis for the purpose of "recovering" memories is just an invitation to confabulate.

[Audible Click]

As to the question about aliens, it could be that the so called "crash of the alien spaceship" in Roswell New Mexico in July 1947 coupled with the, ever mysterious, Area 51 stuck in our national psyche. The Roswell incident was fairly big news at the time. I don't think we on Earth are the only life in the Universe but I doubt any aliens have visited us yet.
Welcome to the forum it's a great place to debate and learn.

[Limbo]

Rex,

I recommend this book:

Varieties of Anomalous Experience: Examining the Scientific Evidence (http://www.amazon.com/Varieties-Anomalous-Experience-Examining-Scientific/dp/1557986258/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245514838&sr=8-1)

[learner]

Hello Rex and welcome to the forum. I am not sure why you posted in this particular thread but thanks for bumping it, because it is a classic.

In any case, regarding hypnosis and repressed memories - there are a number of good threads regarding this subject - a quick search of the forums reveals discussions such as this:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=34188

Here's the whole list of what Google popped up:

Forum google Search on 'hypnosis' and 'memories' (http://www.google.com/custom?q=hypnosis%2C+memory&cof=S%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fforums.randi.org%3BAH%3Acente r%3BLH%3A75%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fforums.randi.org%2F images%2Fmisc%2Fsearchlogo.gif%3BLW%3A849%3BAWFID% 3A31746880203d5407%3B&domains=forums.randi.org&sitesearch=forums.randi.org)

Regarding the UFO phenomenon being more or less a purely 'American' thing, I seem to recall that a lot of the best crop circles happened in Britain. Also, it could be that it's simply more acceptable to talk about things like alien abduction in the USA than it is in other places, I am not sure. Then again, isn't David Icke from Britain? He's one of the main proponents of the fantasy that alien reptilian shape-shifters are already in control of most of the governments on planet Earth . . .

I hope all of your fares tip generously.

Regards,

Minadin

Thanks for that, As a Brit I'm still reeling from the fact that we have our own creationist museum. Now you remind me of Ike. How embarrassing....shhh

:o

Hello Rex.

[RexStevens]

Dear sir, How do you slice a banana with out peeling it? Thank you

[learner]

I suspect there is a catch here but my guess would be- with a knife?

[RexStevens]

Dear mr.Kariboo ,thank you for your reply,don't be sorry that I have ptsd,cause invariably Threw counseling I have addressed issues,that if I was normal I would not have.If an engine runs fine,you do nothing,If the engine is blown,you rebuild it.And since hypnosis,is unreliable,how about sodium pentothal,we used it to retrieve information,granted it was not lost,it was just not forthcoming.

[RexStevens]

dear Mr. learner ,sorry, let me clarify.Mr minadin stated he learned how to slice a banana,without peeling it.then stated great trick to show step-kids.That inflection,denoted that the technique used was more than just slicing it.

[learner]

I knew there was more to it.. thanks. I missed that :o

[Michael C]

Dear sir, How do you slice a banana with out peeling it? Thank you

Here's a way:

dSYzpuSQBsU

[Minadin]

Yes, that was the basic method I discovered.

Rex, did you check out the other threads I linked, and also Kariboo's link regarding repressed memory?

The consensus seems to be that attempting to recall lost memories through hypno-therapy ranges from futile to harmful - I wouldn't recommend it.

[Kariboo]

Dear mr.Kariboo ,thank you for your reply,don't be sorry that I have ptsd,cause invariably Threw counseling I have addressed issues,that if I was normal I would not have.If an engine runs fine,you do nothing,If the engine is blown,you rebuild it.And since hypnosis,is unreliable,how about sodium pentothal,we used it to retrieve information,granted it was not lost,it was just not forthcoming.

Sodium Pentothal (or other "truth serums") lower inhibitions and increase talkativeness. There is no reliable evidence as far as I know that they produce reliable information. Basically they only work if you know what the problem is but you have a hard time talking about it . Any memories 'recovered' that way would have to be independently verified and false memories have the same drawbacks that they would have under hypnosis (i.e. they would feel real but aren't).

What is the idea about "finding" these memories for you? What purpose does it serve? If the information is not lost as you say there is no need to use these aids to retrieve it you just have to learn to talk about it under normal conditions. If you don't have the traumatic memories (or can't retrieve them) what reason would there be to do so.

I think it is a misconception that problems in the present have to be rooted in some sort of past trauma. Also there is some reason to believe that learning to deal with current problems is not helped by trying to find out what caused it but rather is more helped by adapting better coping skills to deal with present problems.

Also I am female:)

[RexStevens]

Dear miss Kariboo, Thank you for your questions.I will try to answer,I have fragments of acts done,but not the complete mission or ops.And not that many fragments or memories.Fragments come in the night mares.I have met other vets that can recall their whole tour.I don't remember names of the men I operated with.And I would like that,(to find them on the wall)I go to a vet center on a regular basis and interact with other vets that have ptsd.We do talk about things,but it is hard to comment,if the tape has a lot of blank spots.My records show the base I was at ,but not the ops we went on or where.A person with amnesia would like their memories back to feel complete.I can understand how they feel.And on a more realistic point,to file for compensation with the VA.You have to site Three events that you think contributed to you having ptsd,places,people,time and date.Most folks that have ptsd have memory loss.But the blessing out of all this is,As I told the gentleman, that told me he was sorry that I had ptsd.I responded,that I am addressing issues,that if I did not have ptsd,I would not have.If the engine runs fine,do nothing.If the engine is blown, rebuild it.I quit drinking 14 yrs ago and ever since have been on a quest to be the best me i can be.

[RexStevens]

Dear mr minadin,No sir not yet.

[Roma]

Noooo,

please read the following site about false memory syndrome:

http://www.fmsfonline.org/fmsffaq.html

[RexStevens]

Dear mr. minadin,I just finished reading the thread about repressed memories that miss kariboo left for me.After reading all that i am more confussed now then I was.!

[RexStevens]

Dear mr.Roma Hart,Thank you for the reference,I am reading it as we speak.It'll be a while before I get it all digested.

[Kariboo]

,I have fragments of acts done,but not the complete mission or ops.And not that many fragments or memories.Fragments come in the night mares.I have met other vets that can recall their whole tour.I don't remember names of the men I operated with.And I would like that,(to find them on the wall)I go to a vet center on a regular basis and interact with other vets that have ptsd.We do talk about things,but it is hard to comment,if the tape has a lot of blank spots.My records show the base I was at ,but not the ops we went on or where.A person with amnesia would like their memories back to feel complete.I can understand how they feel.And on a more realistic point,to file for compensation with the VA.

I do understand the need for someone who is missing pieces of their memory to try and find out what really happened. The problem is that that may not be possible in a reliable manner. First of: if your memory of the event was never stored in your brain it cannot be retrieved simply because it was never there to begin with. Any memories that you retrieve by using hypnosis, truth serum or the like are questionable because we know that those memories have a high chance of being constructed after the fact, and by imagining what could have happened. They do feel real but may not be. You can only verify these with other known fact (for instance finding proof that something happened because there are records, or other people that were there). Thirdly any event is recalled differently by everyone who was there and people remember different things about the same situation. Whatever someone else remembers about events may not be what you would have remembered. Your best chance is probably to find out through different channels what you did while on duty, that would at least provide some factual events even if you don't have the memories to go with it.

Dear mr. minadin,I just finished reading the thread about repressed memories that miss kariboo left for me.After reading all that i am more confussed now then I was.! Please let us know what you are confused about and maybe we can clear some things up for you.

Kariboo

[RexStevens]

Dear miss kariboo and all of y'all,hope you're doing well! The repressed memory's,those folks can't agree,From freud forward.The fact remains that I have memory blanks.I live and operate in the today,Yesterday I don't remember,unless its really major.I don't remember interacting with folks,unless they managed to get through my defense mechanism,and they are registered as tangible people.If I don't register you as an entity,then if something happens to you I won't cry.Anyway I want thank all of you for your input.And I really thank y'all for stopping me from going on my hypnosis journey.

[Kariboo]

Dear Rex

The issue you describe in your last post is different from having memory loss during a traumatic time in your life. I am not a neurologist or neuropsychologist so anything I say should not be taken as medical advice. I do strongly suggest that you see a neurologist or neuropsychologist to help you diagnose what the issue with your memory is. You could have a problem with encoding or storage of new memories http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory . Also you could have anterograde amnesia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterograde_amnesia. The first step seems to be to find a qualified doctor to meet with you and find out exactly what the problem is. The next step would be to find ways of treatment or coping.

[Minadin]

I'm an architect, not a doctor (Jim!) but I think that Kariboo is giving good advice. Think about it, Rex, and have a good weekend.

[thaiboxerken]

While there may be some merit to extereme relaxation helping to recall memory, there is so much room for such a state to fabricate memories or implant them based on suggestion. It's an unreliable method and rather silly. There needs to be much more science to support the notion that hypnosis works in more than just an entertainment setting.

[HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP]

As to the question about aliens, it could be that the so called "crash of the alien spaceship" in Roswell New Mexico in July 1947 coupled with the, ever mysterious, Area 51 stuck in our national psyche. The Roswell incident was fairly big news at the time. I don't think we on Earth are the only life in the Universe but I doubt any aliens have visited us yet.
Welcome to the forum it's a great place to debate and learn.
Thank you for responding to my good friend Rex.
but now with that response of yours, he is now even more convinced that Aliens are real.
He also claims he has seen a UFO.

[Lanzy]

Very simply, hypnosis can make you "think" you have recovered suppressed memories, like others here, I would not put much faith in their accuracy.

I went through a long period back in the 80's of doing just this, at first I was very happy with recovered memories, but I realised soon that I was being led into them.

Also welcome from a Vietnam Era Vet.

[HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP]

I'd like to thank all of you who contributed into making my good friend Rex realized the woo woo behind Hypnosis.
He now thinks it isn't worth it anymore.
Again, I thank all of you.

[RexStevens]

Dear miss Kariboo,thank you for the information it was well received.I think I am dealing with a combination of factors dating back to the war.Cause at that time,to deal with day to day events I consumed large amounts of alcohol,fatigue to the point of just concentrating on the day at hand(which we combated with large amounts of benzedrine,(speed) and then all the years in the oil fields as a welder,that life style was as close to the that of combat that I could find in the civilian world.Then I consumed massive amounts of alcohol for most of my adult life.But the blessing is I don't get bored of doing the same task repetitively,cause its all ways like brand new.I don't get tired of eating the same food,cause its all ways like the first time.

[RexStevens]

Thank all of you for your responses,now I need help convincing my good friend,Mr. HENTAI,that aliens exist.To think that we are the only intelligent life in the universe is rather ludicrous.Mr HENTAI contends that if we haven't seen them with the Hubble telescope then they don't exist.When we went on recon ops,if we got spotted by the enemy,the ops was considered a failure.And if they did not spot us did that mean we did not exist.

[Aitch]

Late entry:

I have a 20 minute 'hole' in my memory from the time I had a bronchoscopy - I am one of the 5-20% (opinions differ) of people who have total amnesia of the period for which they were sedated. I suspect no amount of hypnotism would fill that 'hole' with anything real.

[HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP]

Thank all of you for your responses,now I need help convincing my good friend,Mr. HENTAI,that aliens exist.
And the proof is.....?
To think that we are the only intelligent life in the universe is rather ludicrous.


WE ARE!check this thread for starters and find out how smart WE are! (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=145251)


Mr HENTAI contends that if we haven't seen them with the Hubble telescope then they don't exist.
Guess Rex has seen them with his "telescope".
When we went on recon ops,if we got spotted by the enemy,the ops was considered a failure.And if they did not spot us did that mean we did not exist.OK, then the "crash" of the alien spaceship in Rosswell was an ALIEN FAILURE and so that means they do exist! gotcha!
Here's my version of " alien worship ":
http://www.geocities.com/hentairadio/aliens.jpg

[RexStevens]

to Mr.HENTAI,no sir I have not seen aliens,I have seen a UFO,but what I said,for myself,to think that I'm,(the human race) the only intelligent life form in the universe,is rather ludicrous on my part,just cause we don't have the technology to go to to warp speed,does not mean that other intelligent life forms do not.As for the crash in Roswell,the government never did show us the spaceship,and they sure didn't tell us what alloy the hull was made of.
have a blessed day.

[Kariboo]

Rex: as far as Roswell is concerned please read the next two links:
http://www.csicop.org/si/9707/roswell.html
http://www.csicop.org/si/9507/roswell.html

The government didn't show the spaceship because here was none.

As far as your claim 'we are not the only intelligent life in the universe': possibly or probably depending on how you look at that. That is a long way away from 'aliens are circling the earth and visiting' though.

What I mean to say is that we have no proof that aliens indeed do exist and have flown our way. There is the problem with speed and distance. There is no reason to believe it is possible to travel faster than light. at the speed of light it takes you a couple of years to the nearest star (and that is after you find us) There is the problem of timeliness (the universe is 13.5 billion years old) so intelligent life would have to co-exist with us to visit. We have only been here a couple of thousand years and technologically advanced enough for what, 100-200 years? And there is the problem of space, the universe is big http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0lxbzgwW7I so the chance to find us is minimal (we haven't been sending out signs of intelligent life very long yest (about 100 years).

Odds are that alien life is nicely attached to their planet- just like we are- and we'll never meet them in person.

Just in general you may like browsing this site: http://www.csicop.org/si/online.html

[RexStevens]

Dear mr.Minadin,hope your day goes well and is blessed.And Happy Birthday.

[HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP]

I'm an architect, not a doctor (Jim!) but I think that Kariboo is giving good advice. Think about it, Rex, and have a good weekend.

FELÍZ CUMPLEÁÑOS MINADIN!

http://www.geocities.com/hentairadio/cake.jpg

And thank you and everyone else for helping my friend Rex.