EATING HAM IN THE PRESENCE OF ORTHODOX JEWS

[Beleth]

Okay, I capitalized the title to poke fun at the "drinking in front of children" thread, but the question is moderately serious.

How do you feel about doing something you know is blatantly against the religious tenets of someone you are with? Like eating a ham sandwich in front of a devoutly Jewish person, or drinking alcohol in front of a follower of a religion which prohibits alcohol, etc.

Does it bother you? Should it bother you? Does it bother them?

[DarkMagician]

It matters on how the person acts. If they respect me and don't go into a "It's-(the beast/the slime/a crawling eye/Godzilla/Michael Jackson)" complex, then I wouldn't out of respect. If they don't, then turnabout's fair play, right?

[zakur]

Does that include eating meat in front of Christians on Fridays during Lent?

[Aoidoi]

Well, on a pretty regular basis I've eaten meat in front of Hindus. None of them have complained. Does make picking a spot for lunch a pain, though. :D

Did feel guilty about breaking for lunch when I was working with a Muslim during Ramadan. Not guilty enough to keep working, but somewhat guilty as I left to go chow down. ;)

[Beleth]

Originally posted by zakur
Does that include eating meat in front of Christians on Fridays during Lent? Absolutely.

[c4ts]

There's nothing wrong with eating ham in the presence of Orthodox Jews. In fact, most Orthodox Jews I know are really nice and respect the beliefs of others, including those who decide not to be kosher.

[zakur]

It doesn't bother me. I have not seen that it bothers my religious friends.

The only time my choice of fare has bothered anyone was the time when I was forced (for work) to go to lunch with a vegan colleague. She is one of those vegan evangelists, trying to convert everyone at work to going meatless. We ate at a Chinese buffet, where I started off with a simple chicken lo mein - a dish I chose specifically because it was not so overtly "meaty." Still, she visibly sneered every time I took a bite.

So, when I went for seconds I got a plate full of chicken skewers and chicken wings. As I sat there emphatically tearing meat from the chicken bones with my teeth, she condescendingly told me "I don't know how you can eat that."

I just smiled back through grease-sheened lips with bits of meat and gristle stuck in my teeth. :D

[Marquis de Carabas]

If an Orthodox Jew is so culturally insensitive as to refrain from eating ham in my presence, I am culturally insensitive enough to eat ham in front of him.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Beleth
Okay, I capitalized the title to poke fun at the "drinking in front of children" thread, but the question is moderately serious.

How do you feel about doing something you know is blatantly against the religious tenets of someone you are with? Like eating a ham sandwich in front of a devoutly Jewish person, or drinking alcohol in front of a follower of a religion which prohibits alcohol, etc.

Does it bother you? Should it bother you? Does it bother them?

As I understand it, the Orthodox Jewish position is that the dietary laws apply only to Jews.

Unless you happen to be Jewish, eating ham in front of Orthodox Jews is inoffensive to them.

[UnrepentantSinner]

When I lived in Iran the neighborhood cats would all come by our house and eat ham if my parents put it out.

You know, I just though of something. Why are there no pork based pet foods? Beef, Chicken, Fish, Lamb, Turkey even, but no pork. Hmmmm.

For myself, I'll eat anything in front of anybody and if it's something they might find disgusting, unclean or morally wrong I'll make a huge pruduction of letting them know he delicious I find it. Especially with vegetarians.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by Beleth
Does it bother you? Should it bother you? Does it bother them?

No. No. Who cares?

[The Don]

Originally posted by UnrepentantSinner
You know, I just though of something. Why are there no pork based pet foods? Beef, Chicken, Fish, Lamb, Turkey even, but no pork. Hmmmm.



Pet foods are a way of using low grade meat unfit for human consumption. No need to do this for pork becuase sausages have been invented.


either that or IT'S A ISLAMOJUDEIC CONSPRIACY !!!!!!!!!

[El Greco]

It's very offensive to eat anything at all in the presence of breatharians.

[Darat]

Originally posted by UnrepentantSinner
When I lived in Iran the neighborhood cats would all come by our house and eat ham if my parents put it out.

You know, I just though of something. Why are there no pork based pet foods? Beef, Chicken, Fish, Lamb, Turkey even, but no pork. Hmmmm.

For myself, I'll eat anything in front of anybody and if it's something they might find disgusting, unclean or morally wrong I'll make a huge pruduction of letting them know he delicious I find it. Especially with vegetarians.

Because as my Gran used to say - "you can eat every part of a pig apart from the curl in the tail".

Actually if you check on some pet foods you will see that some do contain pork. Pig hide is often used for "raw hide" products, dried pig ears are very popular in the UK - for feeding to dogs - before any sarky comments about British food.

And I worked for a Jewish company (100+ staff) for a couple of years which had a mixture of orthodox and non-orthodox Jews and there was never any issue with whatever us 4 gentiles ate. (But there was a separate “Kosher” fridge.)

[LuxFerum]

I my school, we had a muslim student, and we always eat and tease him about food in ramadan, and he always mock us back with meat from Ash Wednesday until Holy Saturday. :D
If you are not a fanatic, why would you bother about others people religion?

[Crossbow]

I have eaten pork products in front of orthodox Jews and Muslims.

If doing so would have really bothered them, I would not have done so. But they did not seem to mind provided that I did not try to get them to eat any of the pork products.

[Mr Clingford]

Originally posted by zakur
Does that include eating meat in front of Christians on Fridays during Lent? I have never been told not to eat meat on these days and I am a Christian so what's all this about?

[Marquis de Carabas]

I have never been told not to eat meat on these days and I am a Christian so what's all this about?
:jaw: You mean you weren't told?

[Trollbane]

Originally posted by Mr Clingford
I have never been told not to eat meat on these days and I am a Christian so what's all this about?

It is probably some Catholic thing..

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Mr Clingford
I have never been told not to eat meat on these days and I am a Christian so what's all this about?

It was a form of weekly fasting for the Catholic Church, but dropped officialy ( as a mandate ) the 60's, I believe..

It was actualy considered a mortal sin, right up there with murder and divorce..

For some reason ' fish ' was not considered meat, so it was allowed...

Interestingly, a lot of school lunch rooms and such, traditionally still serve fish on Friday. ( in the US anyway.. )

Here is a Catholic official answering the question:

Hi, I was wondering if it would be a sin, a mortal sin to eat meat on Friday? (http://www.saint-mike.org/Apologetics/QA/Answers/Faith_Spirituality/f0304220191.html)


...Well it is not necessarily a mortal sin to eat meat on Fridays of Lent, but to REFUSE to abstain would be a sin of rebellion....

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by Diogenes


It was a form of weekly fasting for the Catholic Church, but dropped officialy ( as a mandate ) the 60's, I believe..

It was actualy considered a mortal sin, right up there with murder and divorce..

For some reason ' fish ' was not considered meat, so it was allowed...



Do you happen to know that "some reason"? It has something to do with the fact that the Pope's family was involved in the fishing trade. What a great way for the Pope to generate business for his brother, eh?

[zakur]

Originally posted by Trollbane
It is probably some Catholic thing.. Primarily, yes: http://www.catholic.org/clife/lent/abfast.php

[LFTKBS]

Whenever I eat pork in front of my friends who are Jewish, I just tear into it and say "Goddamn! That's good pig!"

(Course, none of them are Orthodox, which takes the fun out of it.)

Also see Jewish Elders Lift 6,000-Year Ham Ban (http://www.theonion.com/onion3409/hamban.html)

[zakur]

Originally posted by pgwenthold
Do you happen to know that "some reason"? It has something to do with the fact that the Pope's family was involved in the fishing trade. What a great way for the Pope to generate business for his brother, eh? Warm-blooded = meat. Cold-blooded = non-meat. Pigs, cows and chickens are off limits. Fish, frogs, etc. are allowed. Eggs and dairy are OK.

Yes, it's wacky.

I've heard that in certain parts of South America, capybaras are be eaten on Fridays during Lent because the church considers them "fish" due to their aquatic nature. Could be an urban legend.

[zakur]

Originally posted by zakur
I've heard that in certain parts of South America, capybaras are be eaten on Fridays during Lent because the church considers them "fish" due to their aquatic nature. Could be an urban legend. From Wikipedia (http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capybara):When Spanish missionaries first found Capybaras in Brazil during the 16th century, they wrote to the Pope for guidance, saying "there is an animal here that is scaly but also hairy, and spends time in the water (the capybara has webbed feet to facilitate its aquatic habit) but occasionally comes on land; can we classify it as a fish?" The question was significant, as the Catholic faith forbids eating meat during Lent. Having a second hand description of the animal (and not wanting the petitioners to turn away from Catholicism), the Pope agreed and declared the Capybara a fish.

This classification by the pope is not merely historical however. Although science and common sense has since defined this four legged and hairy rodent as a mammal, even to this day the capybara is considered a fish by the Catholic church. No popes since have corrected this quite obvious error.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by zakur
Warm-blooded = meat. Cold-blooded = non-meat. Pigs, cows and chickens are off limits. Fish, frogs, etc. are allowed. Eggs and dairy are OK.

Yes, it's wacky.

I've heard that in certain parts of South America, capybaras are be eaten on Fridays during Lent because the church considers them "fish" due to their aquatic nature. Could be an urban legend.

But capybaras are rodents and therefore "creeping things".

For those who have never heard of capybaras, picture rats big enough to have steaks and chops.

Infidels! :D

[jimmygun]

If I were having people over to my place for a meal I would be sensitive to their customs. I would not invite a muslim and expect them to eat pork nor would I invite a diabetic and expect them to eat sugar doughnuts. One thing I do not make an effort for are vegetarians. They know up front that if they wish to eat seaweed and grass they bring their own. Any preaching about the evils of eating meat in my house would result in an instant tour of the front door.

If I were to go to someone else's house for a meal I would be sensitive to their customs and expect that their customs trumped mine (in that I have no restrictions). If I were invited to a vegetarian's home for dinner I would politely decline and give my reasons for doing so.

In public I would eat anything I desired in front of anyone. I would expect them to do the same.

[Andonyx]

I think Jimmygun has prettymuch got it down.

Outside of planned meals where one group or the other is responsible for food prep, I'm not curtailing my eating enjoyment for anyone.

[T'ai Chi]

Originally posted by zakur
She is one of those vegan evangelists, trying to convert everyone at work to going meatless.


Oh gosh.. those people are so frustrating!

You should bring up all the plants and insects that that die so they can get the vegan food they eat. :)

[tedly]

zakur gave us:
'even to this day the capybara is considered a fish by the Catholic church' from Wikipedia

I'm too lazy to get this quote*, but in the Canadian act defining the fishery there is wording to the effect that 'for the purposes of this act whales and seals are fish'. so we can't be too hard on the Catholics.

*My bad, but searching through law sites is on the same order as rubbing ground glass in my eyes, Canadian law sites ....

[Thanz]

Originally posted by tedly
I'm too lazy to get this quote*, but in the Canadian act defining the fishery there is wording to the effect that 'for the purposes of this act whales and seals are fish'. so we can't be too hard on the Catholics.
How about this beauty (from Ontario's Beef Cattle Marketing Act):
Licences

3. (1) Except under the authority of a licence, no person shall sell cattle. R.S.O. 1990, c. B.5, s. 3 (1).

Idem

(2) Every person who sells cattle shall be deemed to be the holder of a licence. R.S.O. 1990, c. B.5, s. 3 (2).
That is some top notch legislative work right there.

[triadboy]

Originally posted by LFTKBS
Whenever I eat pork in front of my friends who are Jewish, I just tear into it and say "Goddamn! That's good pig!"



:D :D :D

[triadboy]

I'm trying to remember all the dietary rules from other religions:

Hindus don't eat beef

Jews don't eat lobster, crabs, or pigs

Muslims don't eat pig

Rednecks don't eat tofu

Catholics eat fish on Friday


Are there more?

[Dylab]

Originally posted by jimmygun
One thing I do not make an effort for are vegetarians. They know up front that if they wish to eat seaweed and grass they bring their own. Any preaching about the evils of eating meat in my house would result in an instant tour of the front door.


Sniff sniff stereotypes hurt. How come you are perfectly tolerant of muslims and then you resort to stereotypes of vegetarians? Not all people who don't eat meat are self-rightious hippies.

[jimmygun]

If a muslim barked in my face about eating pork I would not be tolerant of his customs. So far none of my muslim friends have done this. Nor have any Jewish friends, nor Catholics that didn't eat meat on Friday. Every single vegetarian I have met is on a crusade to get me off meat.

I do not respect their attempts to convert me any more than bible thumpers who won't leave me alone.

[Dylab]

Originally posted by jimmygun
If a muslim barked in my face about eating pork I would not be tolerant of his customs. So far none of my muslim friends have done this. Nor have any Jewish friends, nor Catholics that didn't eat meat on Friday. Every single vegetarian I have met is on a crusade to get me off meat.


Every atheist I know is a cynical and incredibally bitter...


OK I am an atheist and I might by cynical and bitter but if someone said that what would your response be? All of the vegetarians that I know would never critisise someone else for eating meat. I know that people like that do exist but it is wrong to stereotype a whole group of people just because of the ones that you have personally dealt with.

O.K. I reread your post and if your point is that you don't tolerate vegetarians pushing their beliefs on you then that I can completly agree with. Christians, vegetarians, atheists its wrong to personally push their beliefs on someone.

[T'ai Chi]

I ate nothing once in the presence of an atheist. :D

Speaking of militant vegetarians or vegans, they remind me of people who recently joined a fitness club/program and are trying to convince you to sign up and constantly talking about it. -Thanks, but I can do crunches at home and run up and down the streets!

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
-Thanks, but I can do crunches at home and run up and down the streets!


You should try the sidewalks....

[Darat]

Originally posted by T'ai Chi


Oh gosh.. those people are so frustrating!

You should bring up all the plants and insects that that die so they can get the vegan food they eat. :) [/B]

And not just insects - with modern harvesting it's a bloodbath of small mammals whenever a field is harvested.... wonder if the vegans ever think ofthat?

[Ratman_tf]

Originally posted by Darat


And not just insects - with modern harvesting it's a bloodbath of small mammals whenever a field is harvested.... wonder if the vegans ever think ofthat?

I believe most have. The argument as I remember it is that they try to impact as least as possible. You kill thousands (millions?) of bacteria everyday just by living. Swallow a fly or spider accidentally. (Mmm. protien) but Vegans intentionally take as little animal life as possible, and refrain from consuming animal products like cheese and eggs.

Of coure, I consider it hockey-pooey.

And I've known a lot of Vegetarians who do it for personal reasons not related to the Vegan silliness. Just because someone munches tofu doesn't mean they're throwing buckets of red paint on people for having a steak.

[luvtinayothers]

Originally posted by triadboy
I'm trying to remember all the dietary rules from other religions:

Hindus don't eat beef

Jews don't eat lobster, crabs, or pigs

Muslims don't eat pig

Rednecks don't eat tofu

Catholics eat fish on Friday


Are there more?

Hindus don't eat any animals, I believe.

[pupdog]

If the vegetarians start proselytizing, just start singing Tom Paxton's "Please Don't Slay That Potato".

[c4ts]

Cthulhu eats you.

[Aoidoi]

Personally, I prefer eating orthodox jews in the presence of ham.

According to one Jewish friend of mine, if a jew is stuck on a deserted island with his only food sources a dead human body and a lobster, he's supposed to eat the human first. I love rules based religions... at some point you always reach the absurdity level. ;)

[epepke]

It was a form of weekly fasting for the Catholic Church, but dropped officialy ( as a mandate ) the 60's, I believe.

Still maintained by Greek/Eastern Orthodox.

[epepke]

Originally posted by luvtinayothers


Hindus don't eat any animals, I believe.

It depends on how strict they are.

If strict, no animal products other than milk.

If not so strict, beef, pork, fish, and shellfish are off limits. Chicken, lamb, and goat are OK.

[ebola]

Warm-blooded = meat. Cold-blooded = non-meat. Pigs, cows and chickens are off limits. Fish, frogs, etc. are allowed. Eggs and dairy are OK.



"Mom, it's Friday, what are we having for dinner?"

"Well, I was thinking either snake or lizard."

"Oooh, snake, my favorite! Do we have any Copperhead filets?"

"I believe we do. Is that what you would like?"

"That would be great, Mom. Thank you ever so much."



Eric