months back

[billydkid]

I remember a simple post months back before there seemed to be many skeptics active in this particular forum. Someone asked the simple honest question "Why do you believe in god?" and was ruthlessly attacked by a bunch of maniacs, but I don't remember anyone actually answering the question. Now the question presumes that we would have general consensus on the meaning of the word "god", which, obviously, is not actually true, but I think it would be really interesting to hear folks explain why, in fact, they do believe in "god". I don't mean defending their belief systems or forming and rebutting arguments for or against god. I mean on a simple personal level why do you believe in god, how do you rationalize that belief, how did arrive at that belief and the conception of god you now hold? Were you just raised that way? Did you have a vision? Did you succumb to Hari Krishnas? or the seventh day adventists? I am just really curious about this.

[Franko]

very simple:

Atoms obey the Laws of Physics.
You are made of Atoms.
You obey The Laws of Physics (TLoP).

TLOP (God) makes/control YOU makes/controls CAR

In the same way that YOU are more conscious than CAR, TLOP is more conscious than YOU. To claim otherwise is analogous to claiming that when YOU go for a ride in your CAR, that the CAR is actually more conscious than YOU.

Obviously there is a "God". ALL of the evidence (empirical and logical) indicates that there is clearly a "God". Only a severely deluded individual who does not want to acknowledge that there are consequences for his actions (a dire pessimist) could possible believe otherwise.

Franko...Am I still on your ignore list? Miss ya you big galoot!

[fishbob]

I do not, therefore I can not.

Those that do believe - I hope get some comfort from their belief.

[gentlehorse]

I believe in God because of the existence of consciousness. Call me a woo woo.

[J3K]

gentlehorse

YOU WOO WOO.

I don't care whether you believe in god or not, that's your choice. I just wanted to say woo woo cause I've never said it before:)

[Franko]

Franko...Am I still on your ignore list? Miss ya you big galoot!

My Queen told me that you actually want to be saved A-Theist.

I wonder if you will have the good sense to perceive it yourself?

What's your question?

[Jedi Knight]

Humans worship everything. The world is one big church from which there is no escape.

JK

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Humans worship everything. The world is one big church from which there is no escape.

JK

Why do you consider this to be an answer to the question:


" Why do you believe in God ? "

???

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Diogenes


Why do you consider this to be an answer to the question:


" Why do you believe in God ? "

???

Well, I look into the night sky and know science didn't create it. I don't know who did, but he is a bad-ass.

JK

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Well, I look into the night sky and know science didn't create it. I don't know who did, but he is a bad-ass.

JK
God of the gaps?
and while were on the topic...If you don't know who/what/when/how it happened why do you assign this "unknown force" a gender?

God did everything i don't understand......yea, whatever....

[billydkid]

Originally posted by Franko
very simple:

Atoms obey the Laws of Physics.
You are made of Atoms.
You obey The Laws of Physics (TLoP).

TLOP (God) makes/control YOU makes/controls CAR

In the same way that YOU are more conscious than CAR, TLOP is more conscious than YOU. To claim otherwise is analogous to claiming that when YOU go for a ride in your CAR, that the CAR is actually more conscious than YOU.

Obviously there is a "God". ALL of the evidence (empirical and logical) indicates that there is clearly a "God". Only a severely deluded individual who does not want to acknowledge that there are consequences for his actions (a dire pessimist) could possible believe otherwise.

Franko, I have read many, many of your posts and I must say occasionally you sound sane and rational, but often you seem merely reactionary and defensive. I have to say that you can repeat your mantra until the end of time "TLOP controls you....etc.", but that will never make it meaningful. If you really had sound arguments for your belief system, believe me, many of us would be jumping on your band wagon.

It seems to me, the fact that you encounter so much resistance from people of goodwill who have no other agenda than to have an honest debate and maybe gain a little insight should be a signal to you that maybe your ideas are not quite as sound as you are convinced they are. I realize that you think everyone who disagrees with you does have some other agenda and you feel compelled to demonize them in order to keep from having your ideas threatened. I have seen you goad them with name calling and using irritating expressions like "free willy" precisely in order to illicit a response that justifies your demonization of them. But, in fact, most of us do come in here with an open mind. Some don't, but most do.

It is generally considered that you do not debate honestly and that your primary concern is winning the argument and defending your belief system, reason and the truth be damned. And yes, you are right, there are some "atheists" in here who are also similarly inclined, but most are not and most would be thrilled to actually learn something new about the universe. I guess I am a materialist and an atheist, but it would be amazing to discover that I am wrong - it would open up whole new vistas of ways of thinking and the universe would take on cool magical qualities, the same way the world appears magical when we are children. But we are not children anymore and browbeating folks with the same weak arguments endlessly will never convince anyone. And no Franko, there is not "obviously a god". If there were we wouldn't be arguing about it in here.

Franko baby! You know I want in. You know I am not an atheist any more. You know I am compelled as if against my none existent will.

Did you lose the list of questions I have asked already? Do you want me to start over?

Here's a few to get us going again...

Where is your goddette? Is she up, down or all around. What are the extent of her powers? Can she make a fine pot of coffee?

Is she as powerful as all the other gods? Does she have a belly button? Innie or Outie? What size dress does she wear? Does she ever have sex? Does she use contraception?

If she came to earth and rented the trailer right next door to you would she be a good neighbour? When someone calls the cops does she listen in with her shortwave radio?

Does she like proffesional wrestling? How does she communicate with you? Does she appear in an icecream spill or a knot in a tree?
What would your first words to her be if she incarnated herself in human form?

Has she ever been in a skrag fight? Is there anything that makes her go "Ick!"? If you were a woman would you be her favourite?

Don't just shut me out again Franky. I really need the answers if I am to follow you blindly.

Jimmy

[Win]

Well, I've thought a lot about necessity, meaning and truth, and about consciousness and time. The more I think about these things, about the meanings of these words and their referents, the more I lean toward the view that "god" exists.

[hal bidlack]

Because it gives me comfort and because it makes some sense for me, I guess.

Am I hypocritical? Yes, to a degree. I firmly, absolutely, without doubt believe is science. I don't think God decides who wins football games, or picks who survives car accidents. I believe in the Big Bang, in physics, and in evolution. But I think behind it all is what Jefferson hinted at, a cosmic clockmaker, who winds it all up and allows it to unfold.

Now, here's more hypocracy. When my wife was diagnosed with cancer, I prayed a lot. When the cancer came back a little while ago, I prayed. And this week when my dad was operated on for what turned out to be pancreatic cancer, I prayed some more. Now, do I really, truly think that God will kill cancer because I ask him to? No. But I do find it a bit comforting.

So, there you have it, my little world of inconsistancy

[Win]

Hal:

Holding a metaphysical belief doesn't render you a hypocrite. It's sad, though, that you think it must.

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Win
Hal:

Holding a metaphysical belief doesn't render you a hypocrite. It's sad, though, that you think it must.

Nah, that's just the viewpoint of 100% faith in "Science".

[billydkid]

Originally posted by hal bidlack
Because it gives me comfort and because it makes some sense for me, I guess.

Am I hypocritical? Yes, to a degree. I firmly, absolutely, without doubt believe is science. I don't think God decides who wins football games, or picks who survives car accidents. I believe in the Big Bang, in physics, and in evolution. But I think behind it all is what Jefferson hinted at, a cosmic clockmaker, who winds it all up and allows it to unfold.

Now, here's more hypocracy. When my wife was diagnosed with cancer, I prayed a lot. When the cancer came back a little while ago, I prayed. And this week when my dad was operated on for what turned out to be pancreatic cancer, I prayed some more. Now, do I really, truly think that God will kill cancer because I ask him to? No. But I do find it a bit comforting.

So, there you have it, my little world of inconsistancy

Sorry for all you have gone through. I think even the staunchest atheist would empathize with you. I know for certain that however much I became convinced that there is no god, in times of great difficulty I would find myself praying to that god I don't believe exist. To me, the only convincing evidence I have ever found for a god or gods is the deep, deep need we all have for there to be ultimately be one. I don't think any of that makes me or you a hypocrit. I think in reality, I am only an atheist against the cheap and easy god that makes people smug and complacent and believing they can comprehend him. Oh, there is more convincing evidence - is lies in the ability of human beings, from time to time, to demonstrate a compassion and a capacity to love which is truly transcendent.

Ultimately, I believe it is a meaningless question to ask if god exists. This because all things would come from god and he would be in all things. The god we pray to is the god within us and not some hypothetical deity. I think no one need apologize for that. my best, BK

[J3K]

hal bidlack
Also, I am an atheist but I do not pray in times of diar(spelling?) need. However though, a few times I have found myself some what of hypocritical because I do refer to god at times when it comes to stressing my points. Because people see the stress when refering to god, so I take advantage of that fact to stress my point. However, since I don't believe in god, it makes me some what of a hypocrite to refer to god.

[iain]

Hal,

Inconsistent maybe, but then who isn't? Hypocritical? I don't think so. If you came onto this forum and attacked people who believed in a personal God, whilst secretly praying to a personal God yourself, that would count as hypocricy.