Kurt Sonnenfeld, FEMA videographer at GZ goes public, can't speak in whole sentences

[BigAl]

http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html

As official videographer for the U.S. government, Kurt Sonnenfeld was detailed to Ground Zero on September 11, 2001, where he spent one month filming 29 tapes: "What I saw at certain moments and in certain places ... is very disturbing!"

We never find out what he found to be "disturbing". Normal people find mutilated bodies disturbing.

As for claims of censorship, images of bodies are always withheld.

There were lots of bodies at WTC.

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

Ah, yes. Kurt Sonnenfeld, currently cowering in an undisclosed Argentinian location while desperately attempting to avoid extradition charges re: the shooting murder of his wife (whose final words to her hubby/slayer, evidently, were "Kurt, please get help"), the bloody carrying out of which he foolishly confessed to his old cellmates. (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2009/06/well-well-well-another-troofer-murderer.html)

Interesting (although certainly not unexpected) "source" for the Twoof Movement to cite, by way of back-up for their increasingly spastic claims.

:dl:

[RedIbis]

http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html



We never find out what he found to be "disturbing". Normal people find mutilated bodies disturbing.

As far as claims of censorship. Images of bodies are always withheld. There were lots of bodies at WTC.

I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there?

[johnny karate]

I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there?

Great question. Hopefully this thread will devolve into another pointless semantics debate. Be sure to check the OP for proper punctuation and grammar while you're at it.

Back on topic: The Truth Movement is aware that hundreds of people were all over Ground Zero all day on 9/11, right? What do they think this guy witnessed that no one else saw?

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

Back on topic: The Truth Movement is aware that hundreds of people were all over Ground Zero all day on 9/11, right? What do they think this guy witnessed that no one else saw?

Knowing the Twoofers...? "Dick Cheney, draped in a handstitched, still-bloody skinsuit, a la Ed Gein, romping amongst the high-piled corpses and debris and cackling like an amphetamined Chupacabra." :rolleyes:

[RedIbis]

Great question. Hopefully this thread will devolve into another pointless semantics debate. Be sure to check the OP for proper punctuation and grammar while you're at it.

Back on topic: The Truth Movement is aware that hundreds of people were all over Ground Zero all day on 9/11, right? What do they think this guy witnessed that no one else saw?

What exactly is wrong with questioning a claim in the thread title?

[johnny karate]

What exactly is wrong with questioning a claim in the thread title?

Because it has no bearing on the topic at hand. Did Sonnenfeld actually use a full sentence? Technically, yes. So what? Does the OP's claim about the sentence structure of his statement have any impact on its content? Not in the slightest. At worst, it's an issue of imprecise language.

The real issue here is how The Truth Movement is taking one man's incredibly vague remark and pretending it has any significance. It's a non-story, and the website linked is treating it like it has substance. You nitpicking the wordage of the thread title is nothing more than a smokescreen and a derail.

[jaydeehess]

I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there?

Kurt Sonnenfeld, FEMA videographer at GZ goes public, can't complete a thought.

Is that better RI?

[jaydeehess]

BTW, I thought that Sonnefeld's big claim was that 911 was a LIHOP in which the admin knew the hijackers were coming but just allowed it to go forth.

[RedIbis]

Kurt Sonnenfeld, FEMA videographer at GZ goes public, can't complete a thought.

Is that better RI?

He gave an extensive interview, I don't see much evidence of that either.

His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far.

[johnny karate]

He gave an extensive interview, I don't see much evidence of that either.

His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far.

Hopefully sometime this decade he'll get around to actually letting the world know what's on his tapes. I know how people can get busy and sometimes forget to present their evidence of a massive goverment conspiracy to commit mass murder. I often find it helpful to leave myself a post-it note.

[BigAl]

Hopefully sometime this decade he'll get around to actually letting the world know what's on his tapes. I know how people can get busy and sometimes forget to present their evidence of a massive goverment conspiracy to commit mass murder. I often find it helpful to leave myself a post-it note.

If he was working for FEMA, if tapes exist FEMA would have them and a FOIA request should pry them loose.

It's not nice to steal government property.

[RedIbis]

If he was working for FEMA, if tapes exist FEMA would have them and a FOIA request should pry them loose.

It's not nice to steal government property.

He's in Argentina.

[T.A.M.]

Hopefully sometime this decade he'll get around to actually letting the world know what's on his tapes. I know how people can get busy and sometimes forget to present their evidence of a massive goverment conspiracy to commit mass murder. I often find it helpful to leave myself a post-it note.

exactly. Funny that...he will claim the tapes contain something revolutionary, yet will he tell us what is on them???

I am calling bullcrap on this one...we will see.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

He gave an extensive interview, I don't see much evidence of that either.

His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far.

What more could be to the story that his accusers are providing?

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

Let me guess...all the evidence of these attempts to harrass him, this sacking of his office, etc... is not available because they are covering it up...part of the grand conspiracy.

The man may have been innocent of murder, that I have not read on beyond his comments in the article, but the rest is gonna require a LOT MORE than his "account" of things. We've all seen these type of allegations before...I haven't seen a single one turn out to be true with evidence to back it.

TAM:)

This stuff is old sure...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5555425,00.html

[T.A.M.]

Interesting parts from the above article (in my last post),


The charges against Sonnenfeld were dismissed just before trial in June 2002 after a note written by Nancy Sonnenfeld was found that supported Kurt Sonnenfeld's contention that she took her own life.

New charges were filed in 2004, however, after two Denver jail inmates came forward to say Sonnenfeld had confessed to them during his time in custody. By then, Sonnenfeld had remarried and was living in Argentina.

He has been fighting extradition ever since, describing the warrants against him as "a false pretext for other darker motives."

That drew a sharp rebuke Tuesday from Chief Denver District Attorney Michelle Amico.

"I have heard that nonsense from him . . . but then he has nothing to back it up," she said.

An Argentine judge refused to extradite Sonnenfeld in 2005 because of concerns that he could face the death penalty.

The U.S. Department of Justice appealed that decision, assuring the court that no death sentence would be sought, Amico said. The Justice Department has since been notified that the extradition is on hold while an asylum request is pending, a process that could take months or even years.

In a series of recent e-mails to the Rocky Mountain News, Sonnenfeld said Argentina's highest court had rejected the appeal and had sent his case back to the presiding judge for ratification.

Sonnenfeld did not bring up 9/11 when the initial murder case was pending against him or during a lengthy interview with the Rocky on the day he was released from jail.

He also declined to specifically discuss the World Trade Center in a 12-page, single-spaced document he sent to the newspaper in late-night e-mail sessions Sunday and Monday.

"You are asking me to antagonize the very people who, for whatever reason, desperately want me destroyed," Sonnenfeld wrote. "Frankly, I am afraid for the safety of my family. Please don't ask me about what information I have. This is not really the time or the forum."

TAM:)

[Bobert]

Interesting that he would choose to move to a foreign country after his wifes alleged suicide.
Of course this doesn't prove he actually murdered her but still an interesting decision.
Too bad that they didn't have his cell tapped to obtain his confession in my former capacity we would pair up high profile murders with another cell mate and record, hoping for a confession.
BIG SHOCKER to learn that he had a heroin habit.

[johnny karate]

What a joke. So apparently a guy who has yet to reveal any incriminating information, and has repeatedly expressed his disinclination to do so, is being publicly threatened and framed in an elaborate set-up to ensure that he continues not talking.

I'm not sure if the NWO experienced a lot of turn over after 9/11, but the clods running this operation certainly can't be the same precision black-ops superninjas who managed to secretly blow up a bunch of skyscrapers in broad daylight. Don't evil governments just assassinate people anymore?

[Bobert]

Maybe he is a shill who they had implanted into the truth movement but he turned so they murdered his wife to keep him quiet?
I am just asking questions.
MAYBE they tried to turn her against him but she refused so they faked her murder and gave her a PHAT CHECK and now she is living a wonderful life on an exotic island?
I think the Coen Bros should make a movie about the truth movement a la Burn After Reading

[theprestige]

"Dick Cheney, draped in a handstitched, still-bloody skinsuit, a la Ed Gein, romping amongst the high-piled corpses and debris and cackling like an amphetamined Chupacabra." :rolleyes:
Best. Vice President. EVER.

[Walter Ego]

Sonnenfeld's 9/11 CTs re the CIA were featured on Latin American television.

(The video clip is in Spanish.)

_ZhcecWuNI8

Bable Fish translation of the You Tube description of the video:

Kurt Sonnenfeld, camarografo that filmed 90% of images that passed on reporters 11 of September of 2001, and that Internet continues passing on, also it worked in position in house white, and not him pulse shakes when to declare that 11-s was car-attack, and that tried to shut up it by means of murder accusations (of which it allied frees for obvious reasons), toturas, and imprisonments. :confused:

[Alt+F4]

On September 11, 2001, the area known as “Ground Zero” was sealed from the public eye.

Lie number 1.

It was odd to me that all cameras were so fiercely prohibited within the secured perimeter of Ground Zero...

Lie number 2.

FEMA and several other federal agencies had already moved into position at their command center at Pier 92 on September 10th, one day before the attacks!

Lie number 3.

We are asked to believe that all four of the “indestructible” black boxes of the two jets that struck the twin towers were never found because they were completely vaporized

Lie number 4.

I have video that shows how curiously small the rubble pile was, and how the buildings to either side were untouched by Building Seven when it collapsed.

Lie number 5.

And that was just with a quick reading.

[T.A.M.]

oooh...small rubble pile. We haven't seen those allegations since ACE baker and the space beams disintigrated all the steel line of Woo.

TAM:)

[Thunder]

http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html



I see nothing interesting or ground-breaking in his interview.

I guess we will just have to wait for 2010 for something magical to happen.

Or maybe 2011.

:(

[jaydeehess]

I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there?

Kurt Sonnenfeld, FEMA videographer at GZ goes public, can't complete a thought.

Is that better RI?

He gave an extensive interview, I don't see much evidence of that either.

His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far.

You really did not answer my question RI.

I asked if the thread title was that Sonnenfeld could not complete a thought , would that have been more to your liking?

K.S. says that he saw things on 9/11 that indicated to him that the gov't had foreknowledge but he will not say what those things are. He says that items were removed from CIA offices before 9/11 but will not explain how, in filming the debris of 7 buildings he managed to discover that there were things missing from one office.
He says a lot of things but fails to give the complete story on everything he says. He is a heroin addict (by his own admission) and there is evidence (though not enough to convict him) that he killed his wife. Is there a reason why anyone should find him credible?

[jaydeehess]

oooh...small rubble pile. We haven't seen those allegations since ACE baker and the space beams disintigrated all the steel line of Woo.

TAM:)

The cognitive dissonance of the TM shines through when on the one hand they have the buildings falling in their own footprints making a small rubble pile, while also have columns ejected for hundreds of feet and impacting other buildings, and both of these mutually exclusive features are seen as evidence of a conspiracy.:jaw-dropp:rolleyes:

[RedIbis]

You really did not answer my question RI.

I asked if the thread title was that Sonnenfeld could not complete a thought , would that have been more to your liking?

K.S. says that he saw things on 9/11 that indicated to him that the gov't had foreknowledge but he will not say what those things are. He says that items were removed from CIA offices before 9/11 but will not explain how, in filming the debris of 7 buildings he managed to discover that there were things missing from one office.
He says a lot of things but fails to give the complete story on everything he says. He is a heroin addict (by his own admission) and there is evidence (though not enough to convict him) that he killed his wife. Is there a reason why anyone should find him credible?

You're so conditioned to debunk that you failed to see that I've not defended his position even once. In fact I stated quite clearly,

His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far.

[Edx]

The cognitive dissonance of the TM shines through when on the one hand they have the buildings falling in their own footprints making a small rubble pile, while also have columns ejected for hundreds of feet and impacting other buildings, and both of these mutually exclusive features are seen as evidence of a conspiracy.:jaw-dropp:rolleyes:

Its like in 91 Mysteries which says its both an implosion and an explosion in the same damn film!

[T.A.M.]

The cognitive dissonance of the TM shines through when on the one hand they have the buildings falling in their own footprints making a small rubble pile, while also have columns ejected for hundreds of feet and impacting other buildings, and both of these mutually exclusive features are seen as evidence of a conspiracy.:jaw-dropp:rolleyes:

The size of the rubble pile would not be effected by "controlled" versus "uncontrolled" collapse, so it is a nonstarter, IMO, unless you are a Judy "space beam" Wood.

TAM:)

[BigAl]

I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there?

In my OP, I was making a reference to the ellipses in the quote. Early in the debunking business, I realized that whenever a Truth Quote has "..." in it, the meaning when the unedited quote is found very likely reverses the intended meaning or makes it somehow irrelevant.

This google search will show that as of today, j911s has 141 ellipses on it's website. Some of them are innocent but lots of them are used to obscure words that contradict Truther claims. I've read many of them.

"..." site:http://www.journalof911studies.com/

It was this search that changed my opinion of the "Truth Movement" from "people that are ignorant of lots of things" to "people that are intentional intellectual liars and frauds."

[Bobert]

You're so conditioned to debunk that you failed to see that I've not defended his position even once. In fact I stated quite clearly,
Redibus,
Hmmmm take your pick
a) be part of a group that is accused of being, "conditioned to debunk"
b) be part of a group that goes on shooting sprees (2 that I know of so far), murders their own father, and may have murdered their own wife.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

oooh...small rubble pile. We haven't seen those allegations since ACE baker and the space beams disintigrated all the steel line of Woo.


Actually, I'm pretty sure bill smith was arguing that insanity just last month...

[RedIbis]

Redibus,
Hmmmm take your pick
a) be part of a group that is accused of being, "conditioned to debunk"
b) be part of a group that goes on shooting sprees (2 that I know of so far), murders their own father, and may have murdered their own wife.

I try not to divide the human race into two distinct groups, but I'll try and understand you here. How does "a group" murder its own father?

I know you guys don't like to pick on your own but if anyone was looking for a truly stundilious example of bifurcated logic, you won't find one better.

[Horatius]

I try not to divide the human race into two distinct groups, but I'll try and understand you here. How does "a group" murder its own father?




"Family"?


:boxedin:

[Björn Toulouse]

They call this guy a "whistleblower" yet he is not claiming to have been one of the conspirators. There hasn't been such a whistleblower yet. Give me one of the guys who "emptied" the vault or one of the guys that "trucked" the contents of it away - somebody who was issued a real whistle to blow, not somebody whistling their conspiracy theories through their teeth.

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

He is a heroin addict (by his own admission) and there is evidence (though not enough to convict him) that he killed his wife. Is there a reason why anyone should find him credible?

It's like annointing Iggy Pop or Phil Spector as your movement's ethical or intellectual avatar.;)

[Orphia Nay]

http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html



We never find out what he found to be "disturbing". Normal people find mutilated bodies disturbing.

As for claims of censorship, images of bodies are always withheld.

There were lots of bodies at WTC.

Kurt Sonnenfeld lives in exile in Argentina, where he wrote "El Perseguido" (the persecuted). His recently-published book tells the story of his unending nightmare and drives another nail into the coffin of the government’s account of the 9/11 events. Below is an exclusive interview by The Voltaire Network.

So to find out what "evidence" he's got, we have to buy his book, which he's published to profit from 9/11, like all the Twoof leading lights dimwits. :oldroll: That proves he's scum enough for me.

[McHrozni]

According to this guy the 9/11 conspirators let an uninitiated man roam free with a camera to document the aftermath of their crimes, and failed to kill or otherwise silence him afterward.

Yeah. That makes a whole lot of sense.

McHrozni

[jaydeehess]

You're so conditioned to debunk that you failed to see that I've not defended his position even once. In fact I stated quite clearly,
What does it say about you that I now have to state again that you have still not answered my question.
I did not originally (in post 8) ask you about anything referring to defending Sonnefeld.
I asked you whether or not my change to the title would have been more to your liking.

Only later did I ask if his story should be credible to anyone. This was more an editorial of my own on the subject. Sorry that it does indeed appear that I was addressing you directly with it. I had gathered by your first response that you found his story rather fantastic(using the fantasy connotation).

[jaydeehess]

The size of the rubble pile would not be effected by "controlled" versus "uncontrolled" collapse, so it is a nonstarter, IMO, unless you are a Judy "space beam" Wood.

TAM:)

Which is a furtherance of the C.D. (cognitive dissonance - looky there we can claim CD as well:D) of the group.

They will state that the buildings came down in their own footprints with a small rubble pile due to the space-a-beams 'dustifying' steel and concrete
AND
also claim that the space-a-beams caused the building to explode columns (with no accompanying 'dustification' of those columns) outward at great speed.

[T.A.M.]

Which is a furtherance of the C.D. (cognitive dissonance - looky there we can claim CD as well:D) of the group.

They will state that the buildings came down in their own footprints with a small rubble pile due to the space-a-beams 'dustifying' steel and concrete
AND
also claim that the space-a-beams caused the building to explode columns (with no accompanying 'dustification' of those columns) outward at great speed.

well they should be more specific. The size of a rubble pile, IMO, should be based on volume, not the area of ground it covers. So as measured in volume, the rubble pile "size" should not change regardless of mode of collapse.

TAM:)

[9/11-investigator]

Because it has no bearing on the topic at hand. Did Sonnenfeld actually use a full sentence? Technically, yes. So what? Does the OP's claim about the sentence structure of his statement have any impact on its content? Not in the slightest. At worst, it's an issue of imprecise language.

No, it is an obvious attempt to smear.

Not that I am too impressed by Sonnenfeld. He could have send his videos to diverse characters like Griffin, Gage, David Duke of Ernst Zuendel to get his material published.

Or to me. :D

But he did not. One can only speculate as to what he might have seen:

- large amount of beams with straight cutting surfaces with congealed steel drops
- identified remains of American Airlines pilot still present in his pilot chair
- large pools of molten metal

[T.A.M.]

No, it is an obvious attempt to smear.

Not that I am too impressed by Sonnenfeld. He could have send his videos to diverse characters like Griffin, Gage, David Duke of Ernst Zuendel to get his material published.

Or to me. :D

But he did not. One can only speculate as to what he might have seen:

- large amount of beams with straight cutting surfaces with congealed steel drops
- identified remains of American Airlines pilot still present in his pilot chair
- large pools of molten metal

you forgot a fourth option...he saw sweet **** all besides carnage and broken steel and concrete.

TAM:)

[BigAl]

But he did not. One can only speculate as to what he might have seen:

- large amount of beams with straight cutting surfaces with congealed steel drops
- identified remains of American Airlines pilot still present in his pilot chair
- large pools of molten metal

Hundreds of steel workers, firemen, and relevant engineers flooded Ground Zero starting with the collapse of the South Tower. There were hundreds of people looking everywhere, initially for survivors. In the first hours, access was uncontrolled. An estimated 7,000 people worked in the pile at one time or other.

Nobody reports seeing what you imagine existed.

[johnny karate]

No, it is an obvious attempt to smear.

Yeah, wouldn't want to smear a heroin-addict and suspected murderer, would we? Besides, why does a guy who has claimed nothing and done nothing need to be smeared? You seem to be joining this irrational cacophony that proclaims unseen forces are conspiring against a man who has not given anyone a reason to conspire against him.

Not that I am too impressed by Sonnenfeld. He could have send his videos to diverse characters like Griffin, Gage, David Duke of Ernst Zuendel to get his material published.

Or to me. :D

But he did not. One can only speculate as to what he might have seen:
- large amount of beams with straight cutting surfaces with congealed steel drops
- identified remains of American Airlines pilot still present in his pilot chair
- large pools of molten metal

Hopefully he will also provide an explanation as to why none of the hundreds of other witnesses reported seeing such amazing things right out in the open in broad daylight, and why he has so cowardly aided in the cover up of mass murder all these years.

I heartily recommend you hold your breath in anticipation of a startling revelation from Mr. Sonnefeld.

[beachnut]

... One can only speculate as to what he might have seen:

- large amount of beams with straight cutting surfaces with congealed steel drops
- identified remains of American Airlines pilot still present in his pilot chair
- large pools of molten metal
He has nothing. 7 years and nothing save a last attempt to keep him from being tried for murder.
The terrorists were in the pilot seats so your best speculation is a poor apology for terrorists. This is like your failed 9 month grounding of the airliners to put on the fantasy remote control.

[Minadin]

Sonnenfeld's 9/11 CTs re the CIA were featured on Latin American television.

(The video clip is in Spanish.)

_ZhcecWuNI8

Bable Fish translation of the You Tube description of the video:

Kurt Sonnenfeld, camarografo that filmed 90% of images that passed on reporters 11 of September of 2001, and that Internet continues passing on, also it worked in position in house white, and not him pulse shakes when to declare that 11-s was car-attack, and that tried to shut up it by means of murder accusations (of which it allied frees for obvious reasons), toturas, and imprisonments. :confused:

Try:

Kurt Sonnenfel, the cameraman who filmed over 90% of the broadcast news images of Sept. 11, 2001, still available on the internet, also worked for a while in the White House, and isn't afraid to declare that 9-11 was a self-assault, and who they attempted to silence with accusations of murder (whom teamed up freely for obvious reasons) torture, and imprisonment.

I'm not 100% sure of the text in the parentheses, it sounds odd.

[Galileo]

9/11 FEMA videographer at Ground Zero goes public

Kurt Sonnenfeld : Exclusive interview

....

Kurt Sonnenfeld graduated from the University of Colorado (USA) with studies in International Affairs and Economics, as well as in Literature and Philosophy.

He worked for the United States government as official videographer and served as Director of Broadcast Operations for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)’s National Emergency Response Team.

Additionally, Kurt Sonnenfeld was contracted by several other governmental agencies and programs for classified and “sensitive” operations at military and scientific installations throughout the United States.

On September 11, 2001, the area known as “Ground Zero” was sealed from the public eye. Sonnenfeld, however, was given unrestricted access enabling him to document for the investigation (that never took place) and provide some “sanitized” pool video to virtually every news network in the world. The tapes that reveal some of the anomalies which he discovered at Ground Zero are still in his possession.

....

Voltaire Network: What are your suspicions based on?

Kurt Sonnenfeld: There were many things, in hindsight, that were disturbing at Ground Zero. It was odd to me that I was dispatched to go to New York even before the second plane hit the South Tower, while the media was still reporting only that a “small plane” had collided with the North Tower — far too small of a catastrophe at that point to involve FEMA . FEMA was mobilized within minutes, whereas it took ten days for it to deploy to New Orleans to respond to Hurricane Katrina, even with abundant advance warning! It was odd to me that all cameras were so fiercely prohibited within the secured perimeter of Ground Zero, that the entire area was declared a crime scene and yet the “evidence” within that crime scene was so rapidly removed and destroyed. And then it was very odd to me when I learned that FEMA and several other federal agencies had already moved into position at their command center at Pier 92 on September 10th, one day before the attacks!

Rubber landing-gear tyres visible in evidence container marked “FBI Plane Parts Only.” We are asked to believe that all four of the “indestructible” black boxes of the two jets that struck the twin towers were never found because they were completely vaporized, yet I have footage of the rubber wheels of the landing gear nearly undamaged, as well as the seats, parts of the fuselage and a jet turbine that were absolutely not vaporized. This being said, I do find it rather odd that such objects could have survived fairly intact the type of destruction that turned most of the Twin Towers into thin dust. And I definitely harbor some doubts about the authenticity of the “jet” turbine, far too small to have come from one of the Boeings!

“Boeing” jet turbine at Fresh Kills island landfill.

What happened with Building 7 is incredibly suspicious. I have video that shows how curiously small the rubble pile was, and how the buildings to either side were untouched by Building Seven when it collapsed. It had not been hit by an airplane; it had suffered only minor injuries when the Twin Towers collapsed, and there were only small fires on a couple of floors. There’s no way that building could have imploded the way it did without controlled demolition. Yet the collapse of Building 7 was hardly mentioned by the mainstream media and suspiciously ignored by the 911 Commission.

Voltaire Network: Reportedly, the underground levels of WTC7 contained sensitive and undoubtedly compromising archival material. Did you come across any of it?

Kurt Sonnenfeld: The Secret Service, the Department of Defense, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Internal Revenue Service, the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Office of Emergency Management’s “Crisis Center” occupied huge amounts of space there, spanning several floors of the building. Other federal agencies had offices there as well. After September 11, it was discovered that concealed within Building Seven was the largest clandestine domestic station of the Central Intelligence Agency outside of Washington DC, a base of operations from which to spy on diplomats of the United Nations and to conduct counterterrorism and counterintelligence missions.

There was no underground parking level at Seven World Trade Center. And there was no underground vault. Instead, the federal agencies at Building Seven stored their vehicles, documents and evidence in the building of their associates across the street. Beneath the plaza level of US Customs House (Building 6) was a large underground garage, separated off from the rest of the complex’s underground area and guarded under tight security. This was where the various government services parked their bomb-proofed cars and armored limousines, counterfeit taxi cabs and telephone company trucks used for undercover surveillance and covert operations, specialized vans and other vehicles. Also within that secured parking area was access to the sub-level vault of Building 6.

Approaching the entrance to the sub-level areas of Building 6

When the North Tower fell, the US Customs House (Building 6) was crushed and totally incinerated. Much of the underground levels beneath it were also destroyed. But there were voids. And it was into one of those voids, recently uncovered, that I descended with a special Task Force to investigate. It was there we found the security antechamber to the vault, badly damaged. At the far end of the security office was the wide steel door to the vault, a combination code keypad in the cinderblock wall beside it. But the wall was cracked and partially crumbled, and the door was sprung partially open. So we checked inside with our flashlights. Except for several rows of empty shelves, there was nothing in the vault but dust and debris. It had been emptied. Why was it empty? And when could it have been emptied?

Voltaire Network: Is this what set alarm bells ringing for you?

Kurt Sonnenfeld: Yes, but not immediately. With so much chaos, it was difficult to think. It was only after digesting everything that the “alarm bells” went off.

Building Six was evacuated within twelve minutes after the first airplane struck the North Tower. The streets were immediately clogged with fire trucks, police cars and blocked traffic, and the vault was large enough, 15 meters by 15 meters by my estimate, to necessitate at least a big truck to carry out its contents. And after the towers fell and destroyed most of the parking level, a mission to recover the contents of the vault would have been impossible. The vault had to have been emptied before the attack.

I’ve described all of this extensively in my book, and it’s apparent that things of importance were taken out of harm’s way before the attacks. For example, the CIA didn’t seem too concerned about their losses. After the existence of their clandestine office in Building Seven was discovered, an agency spokesman told the newspapers that a special team had been dispatched to scour the rubble in search of secret documents and intelligence reports, though there were millions, if not billions of pages floating in the streets.

Nevertheless, the spokesman was confident. “There shouldn’t be too much paper around,” he said.

The bizarre hollowed-out vestiges of The US Customs House (Building Six)

And Customs at first claimed that everything was destroyed. That the heat was so intense that everything in the evidence safe had been baked to ash.

But some months later, they announced that they had broken up a huge Colombian narco-trafficking and money-laundering ring after miraculously recovering crucial evidence from the safe, including surveillance photos and heat-sensitive cassette tapes of monitored calls. And when they moved in to their new building at 1 Penn Plaza in Manhattan, they proudly hung on the lobby wall their Commissioner’s Citation Plaque and their big round US Customs Service ensign, also miraculously recovered, in pristine condition, from their crushed and cremated former office building at the World Trade Center.

Voltaire Network: You weren’t alone on the Ground Zero assignment. Did the others notice the same anomalies? Do you know whether they have they also been harassed?

Kurt Sonnenfeld: Actually there were a few people on two different excursions that I know about. Some of us even discussed it afterwards. They know who they are and I hope that they will come forward, but I’m sure they have strong apprehensions as to what will happen to them if they do. I will leave it to them to decide, but there is strength in numbers.

Voltaire Network: With the publication of your book, you have become a "whistleblower" – yet another step on which there is no going back! There must be many people with inside knowledge about what really happened or did not happen on that fateful day. Yet, hardly any have stepped up to the plate and certainly no one who was directly involved in an official capacity.

This is what makes your case so compelling. Judging from your ordeal, it is not difficult to imagine what is holding such people back.

Kurt Sonnenfeld: Actually, there are several other very smart and credible people blowing whistles, too. And they are being discredited and ignored.

Some are being harassed and persecuted, as I am.

People are gripped by fear. Everybody knows that if you question US authority you will have problems in some way or another. At minimum you will be discredited and dehumanized. Most likely you’ll find yourself indicted for something completely unrelated, like tax evasion — or something even worse, as in my case. Look at what happened to Secret Service whistle-blower Abraham Bolden, for example, or to chess master Bobby Fischer after he showed his disdain for the US. There are countless other examples. In the past I asked friends and associates to speak out for me to counter all the lies being planted in the media, and all of them were terrified as to the ramifications to themselves and their families.

Voltaire Network: To what degree would your discoveries at Ground Zero expose the government’s involvement in those events? Are you familiar with the investigations that have been carried out by numerous scientists and qualified professionals which not only corroborate your own findings but, in some instances, far exceed them? Do you regard such people as "conspiracy nuts"?

Kurt Sonnenfeld: At the highest levels in Washington, DC, someone knew what was going to happen. They wanted a war so badly that they at least let it happen and most likely even helped it happen.

Sometimes it seems to me that the “nuts” are those who hold to what they’ve been told with an almost religious fervor despite all of the evidence to the contrary — the ones who won’t even consider that there was a conspiracy. There are so many anomalies to the “official” investigation that you can’t blame it on oversight or incompetence. I am familiar with the scientists and qualified professionals to whom you refer, and their findings are convincing, credible, and presented according to scientific protocol — in stark contrast to the findings of the “official” investigation. In addition, numerous intelligence agents and government officials have now come forward with their very informed opinions that the 911 Commission was a farce at best or a cover-up at worst. My experience at Ground Zero is but one more piece of the puzzle.

....

http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html

[Unsecured Coins]

the search function.... it is your friend

[Minadin]

It's even at the top of the first page in the same subforum.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=146399

Cripes.

[HyJinX]

Oh for **** sakes, Galileo.

[Galileo]

the search function.... it is your friend

I never learned about the search function in the public schools.

The other thread has a negative spin.

[HyJinX]

I never learned about the search function in the public schools.

The other thread has a negative spin.

:rolleyes:

[ElMondoHummus]

Suggestion: Mods should join the threads.

[Drudgewire]

I never learned about the search function in the public schools.


clfAq1xSevc

[TK0001]

Voltaire Network: With the publication of your book

'nuff said.

Every day, as this economy collapses around me, I realize the money in writing a book to sell to idiotic teenagers which spouts the same crap that has been debunked for years now. And it makes me wonder at which point I would throw my integrity out the window so I can make a buck just like these idiots.

[Justin39640]

this video should be standard issue
im pretty sure its been posted here b4

B9q2jNjOPdk

[BenBurch]

'nuff said.

Every day, as this economy collapses around me, I realize the money in writing a book to sell to idiotic teenagers which spouts the same crap that has been debunked for years now. And it makes me wonder at which point I would throw my integrity out the window so I can make a buck just like these idiots.

Seriously. Let's write one, sell a million, and then reveal it all to be a Hoax!

[TK0001]

Seriously. Let's write one, sell a million, and then reveal it all to be a Hoax!

Who better to write it than people who have heard the same recycled crap for years? We don't get the luxury of getting out of the game, since new idiots watch Loose Change for the first time every day. As a result, we get to hear the broken record go round and round.

I think we could write a pretty convincing pro-kook 9/11 book.

[Justin39640]

penned by
"Jonathan Roberts & Edward Francis"

[Drudgewire]

Who better to write it than people who have heard the same recycled crap for years? We don't get the luxury of getting out of the game, since new idiots watch Loose Change for the first time every day. As a result, we get to hear the broken record go round and round.

I think we could write a pretty convincing pro-kook 9/11 book.

Yeah, but who's willing to be the masochist who goes into the belly of the beast and pretends to be one of them to gain their trust? Is ten showers a day with steel wool to wash all the stupid off really worth it?

[Macgyver1968]

I'm actually quite surprised Galileo didn't end his OP with:

THIS MARKS THE END OF THE DEBUNKERS! or some crap like that. :)

[TK0001]

Yeah, but who's willing to be the masochist who goes into the belly of the beast and pretends to be one of them to gain their trust? Is ten showers a day with steel wool to wash all the stupid off really worth it?

Yes, this is the question of morality we must ask ourselves before embarking on our journey into the insipid.

ETA: We could counter this by telling ourselves it's satire? Just spitballing....

[Galileo]

this marks the end of the archie debunkers!

[FineWine]

this marks the end of the archie debunkers!


Yeah, we'll miss that show. It lasted a lot longer than your incredibly stupid and dishonest movement.

[lapman]

this marks the end of the archie debunkers!
And Galileo never fails to provide entertainment through stupidity. I know, we shouldn't laugh at "special" people.
What happened with Building 7 is incredibly suspicious. I have video that shows how curiously small the rubble pile was, and how the buildings to either side were untouched by Building Seven when it collapsed.
That pretty much destroyed any and all credibility the guy has.

Damage to 30 West Broadway
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/0822.jpg/0822-full.jpg
Damage to the Verison Building
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/0831.jpg/0831-full.jpg

[Galileo]

http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html



We never find out what he found to be "disturbing". Normal people find mutilated bodies disturbing.

As for claims of censorship, images of bodies are always withheld.

There were lots of bodies at WTC.

LOL, this thread has already been posted by Galileo.

[Galileo]

Lie number 1.



Lie number 2.



Lie number 3.



Lie number 4.



Lie number 5.

And that was just with a quick reading.

Lie number 6

[lapman]

Lie number 6
I think in your case, it's lie # 2314. Basic translation of your post is, "Darn it, he's right. Quick, think of something smart to post."
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/Alter5/fail2.jpg

[FineWine]

Lie number 6



At last you get the idea! In the future, when you're about to post your typical drivel, stop! Delete everything and simply post "Lie number [whatever]." This is how everyone interprets your nonsense anyway.

[Galileo]

Let me guess...all the evidence of these attempts to harrass him, this sacking of his office, etc... is not available because they are covering it up...part of the grand conspiracy.

The man may have been innocent of murder, that I have not read on beyond his comments in the article, but the rest is gonna require a LOT MORE than his "account" of things. We've all seen these type of allegations before...I haven't seen a single one turn out to be true with evidence to back it.

TAM:)

This stuff is old sure...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5555425,00.html

Nice, FEMA hires murderers. This proves murderers were at ground zero. Now we know how the charges were planted.

[Galileo]

FEMA did not get to ground zero on September 10, the dude was just tired.

[Bobert]

this video should be standard issue
im pretty sure its been posted here b4

B9q2jNjOPdk
"this handy little fellow"
:dl:

[Galileo]

I think Mark Sanford had a secret meetinmg with Sonnenfeld!

[FineWine]

Nice, FEMA hires murderers. This proves murderers were at ground zero. Now we know how the charges were planted.


See, all of these people who claim that Galileo is a pitiful mental-defective who can't cope with elementary logic are wrong. Notice how deftly you use logic to make a compelling point:

I) FEMA hires murderers (It is at least conceivable that among all the people hired by a federal agency, there will be a murderer.).

II) This proves there were murderers at Ground Zero (Well, it proves that it is not theoretically impossible for a murderer to have been present at Ground Zero. Sane people are shrugging their shoulders and exhaling a big, collective, No S*** Sherlock!, but they are being unfair. For you, this is as close as it gets to a success.)

III) Now we know how the charges were planted (The underlying premise here is that all murderers are experts in demolition. Now, these nasty sane people will quickly carp that the underlying premise is idiotic nonsense. Again I say that they are being unfair by holding you to a standard you can't reasonably be expected to meet.)


You have excelled yourself. Let's have no smart cracks about the level of competition.

[jaydeehess]

And Galileo never fails to provide entertainment through stupidity. I know, we shouldn't laugh at "special" people.

That pretty much destroyed any and all credibility the guy has.

Damage to 30 West Broadway
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/0822.jpg/0822-full.jpg
Damage to the Verison Building
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/0831.jpg/0831-full.jpg

For those who remember fearless Fosdick
" Its just a flesh wound":D

[jaydeehess]

Nice, FEMA hires murderers. This proves murderers were at ground zero. Now we know how the charges were planted.

Wasn't his wife found dead AFTER 9/11? TIf so then FEMA did not hire a murderer given that he had not yet committed a murder.

His heroin use on the other hand..........

[T.A.M.]

I never learned about the search function in the public schools.

The other thread has a negative spin.

so what public school would GALILEO actually go to?

TAM:)

[Tweeter]

We all know anyone coming forward is going to be ridiculed, called a liar,greedy, nazi,etc..etc. Why do we even bother.

[FineWine]

We all know anyone coming forward is going to be ridiculed, called a liar,greedy, nazi,etc..etc. Why do we even bother.


Some of us have noticed that nobody who "comes forward" actually has anything.

You bother because you and others in your insane movement are fanatics pushing a mad political agenda.

[MarkyX]

We all know anyone coming forward is going to be ridiculed, called a liar,greedy, nazi,etc..etc. Why do we even bother.

He hasn't provided evidence that proves what he is saying is true. Besides, he did admit murder to other inmates, the "suicide note" had nothing to do with suicide, he is a heroin addict, and as soon as he was free he moved to another country.

[Tweeter]

So maybe you could tell the debunkers , that coming on here with a pretty story of their personal experiences of 911 cannot be believed without proof either.

[Redtail]

We all know anyone coming forward is going to be ridiculed, called a liar,greedy, nazi,etc..etc. Why do we even bother.

Yeah, it's hard,

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2316/2306277497_80c86ac688_o.jpg


Really really hard

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Birmingham_campaign_water_hoses.jpg

Maybe even impossible
http://www.change.org/photos/wordpress_copies/stonewall.jpeg

To speak out against what one believes to be an injustice

http://alanadale.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/1989_tiananmen.jpg

When other people

http://digitalrhetor.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/kent-famousphoto.jpg

Call you names.
http://livenews.com.au/static/view/12420_Neda_iran_YouTube_640.jpg

[JoeyDonuts]

So maybe you could tell the debunkers , that coming on here with a pretty story of their personal experiences of 911 cannot be believed without proof either.

Major difference being, we have the ability to provide it when asked. Whether or not we desire to divulge details of our personal life for use as pawns in some digital pissing contest is another matter.

People like this are held to high standard proof-wise because their claims are so outrageous.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

A smart, honest, and selfless person, if they believed that they were being "hunted" for the information they held, would realize that the best way to prevent the hunters from reclaiming said information and hiding it away would be to...

... Anyone? ... Truthers?

The best way to prevent the hunters from reclaiming said information and hiding it away would be to spread it as far and fast as possible.

The fact that Mr. Sonnenfeld took the time to put this information down in published, book format tells me that he was under no pressure whatsoever. Not only was he under no pressure, but he knew that he was under no pressure. Any claim to the contrary is nothing more than a publicity stunt.

Also, if he was released from jail because there was no good evidence (indeed, apparently no evidence at all at the time) implicating him in the death of his wife, why flee the country? He did something to screw himself over, and he knew it. I'm willing to bet that "something" was the alleged confession to his cellmates.

This isn't a man you want to defend, truthers.

[Cuddles]

Why do we even bother.

As far as anyone can tell, you don't.

[jaydeehess]

What does it say about you that I now have to state again that you have still not answered my question.
I did not originally (in post 8) ask you about anything referring to defending Sonnefeld.
I asked you whether or not my change to the title would have been more to your liking.

Only later did I ask if his story should be credible to anyone. This was more an editorial of my own on the subject. Sorry that it does indeed appear that I was addressing you directly with it. I had gathered by your first response that you found his story rather fantastic(using the fantasy connotation).

Just want to make sure RI has a chance to further discuss his original comment in this thread.................

[ElMondoHummus]

We all know anyone coming forward is going to be ridiculed, called a liar,greedy, nazi,etc..etc. Why do we even bother.

Yeah, it's hard,

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2316/2306277497_80c86ac688_o.jpg


Really really hard

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Birmingham_campaign_water_hoses.jpg

Maybe even impossible
http://www.change.org/photos/wordpress_copies/stonewall.jpeg

To speak out against what one believes to be an injustice

http://alanadale.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/1989_tiananmen.jpg

When other people

http://digitalrhetor.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/kent-famousphoto.jpg

Call you names.
http://livenews.com.au/static/view/12420_Neda_iran_YouTube_640.jpg



http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1238649dd416a53ec6.gif

[ElMondoHummus]

Major difference being, we have the ability to provide it when asked. Whether or not we desire to divulge details of our personal life for use as pawns in some digital pissing contest is another matter.

People like this are held to high standard proof-wise because their claims are so outrageous.

What Tweeter doesn't understand is that there's a difference between personal stories that are contradicted by the weight of independent, verifiable evidence and personal stories that are supported by it. That boy doesn't even try to distinguish between the two. It would be best if conspiracy addicts would understand what the term "convergence of evidence" really means; it's more than just "throw everything on the wall, then cry 'weight of evidence!'" regardless of whether individual threads contradict each other. It means all threads of evidence mutually support each other, and also provides a base with which to evaluate further evidence.

Fantasic stories that supposedly lend credence to "inside job" claims must be able to stand in the light of evidence, and when they don't - such as the subject of the OP, Kurt Sonnefeld's statements - it is simply logical to reject them pending further evidence. When they not only fail to stand in the light of evidence, but are utterly contradicted by it (re: Sonnefeld's claim of small fires in 7 World Trade, as well as his statement "buildings to either side were untouched by Building Seven when it collapsed" (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4846402#post4846402)), then the person making the claim is immediately distrusted for not being able to properly observe and communicate the truth, nevermind that he was there personally. If he cannot describe a recorded event properly, in a way that agrees with what is established beyond doubt, then that person's testimony is unreliable. Plain and simple.

This is simple, rational analysis. Tweeter, in his ongoing obsession to try and turn around tactics that have wrecked his previous attempts to defend the conspiracy fantasy, has made an error in equivocating Sonnefeld's statements - which again, are contradicted by known facts - with others who's statements are fully supported by what's known. Once again, a narrative supported by known facts can be trusted; one that is not, such as the one Sonnefeld spins, can not. It is that simple. That Tweeter fails to understand this shows why he is prey to simplistic fantasizing about 9/11 and everything surrounding it.

That's why I have him on ignore. I suggest everyone else do the same. No one's missing anything substantive by ignoring him.

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

We all know anyone coming forward is going to be ridiculed, called a liar,greedy, nazi,etc..etc.

A junkie, who's also a fugitive from justice as well as a self-confessed (to his former cellmates) wife-slayer... and yet somehow (it's all done with mirrors, I expect) we're the ones responsible for Sonnenfeld's resultant lack of any/all credibility whatsoever? :boggled:

Seek. Therapy.

[kookbreaker]

Yeah, it's hard,

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2316/2306277497_80c86ac688_o.jpg


Really really hard

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Birmingham_campaign_water_hoses.jpg

Maybe even impossible
http://www.change.org/photos/wordpress_copies/stonewall.jpeg

To speak out against what one believes to be an injustice

http://alanadale.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/1989_tiananmen.jpg

When other people

http://digitalrhetor.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/kent-famousphoto.jpg

Call you names.
http://livenews.com.au/static/view/12420_Neda_iran_YouTube_640.jpg

Redtail wins the thread.

[Piscivore]

Yeah, it's hard,

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2316/2306277497_80c86ac688_o.jpg

Great post. I recognise all of them but this one, though.

[HyJinX]

Yeah, it's hard,

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2316/2306277497_80c86ac688_o.jpg


Really really hard

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Birmingham_campaign_water_hoses.jpg

Maybe even impossible
http://www.change.org/photos/wordpress_copies/stonewall.jpeg

To speak out against what one believes to be an injustice

http://alanadale.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/1989_tiananmen.jpg

When other people

http://digitalrhetor.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/kent-famousphoto.jpg

Call you names.
http://livenews.com.au/static/view/12420_Neda_iran_YouTube_640.jpg

Very powerful post.

[BigAl]

Great post. I recognise all of them but this one, though.

I'll say it's a British suffragette.

Who is the last pic (the guy clapping?)

(very good post)

[jaydeehess]

Orson Welles

From "Citizen Kane" IIRC

[Trojan]

No, it is an obvious attempt to smear.

Not that I am too impressed by Sonnenfeld. He could have send his videos to diverse characters like Griffin, Gage, David Duke of Ernst Zuendel to get his material published.

Or to me. :D


Isn't Zundel in jail?

Do you often put yourself in this catagory (white supremist and Holocaust denier)?

[aggle-rithm]

Hopefully sometime this decade he'll get around to actually letting the world know what's on his tapes. I know how people can get busy and sometimes forget to present their evidence of a massive goverment conspiracy to commit mass murder. I often find it helpful to leave myself a post-it note.

Ooh! Thanks for reminding me!

[jaydeehess]

RI's first post in this thread and the thread's 3rd post;I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there?

I respond directly to RI point of contention:
Kurt Sonnenfeld, FEMA videographer at GZ goes public, can't complete a thought.

Is that better RI?

Red Ibis has yet to answer me.

While the point is perhaps trivial and RI was only trying to badger the OP's author I find it curious that RI cannot bring himself to actually discuss his original thought on the thread.

[Redtail]

Great post. I recognise all of them but this one, though.

That's a picture of one of the Silent Sentinels or their British counterpart (The Brit ladies got radical before the US IIRC), a women's suffrage group.

[RedIbis]

RI's first post in this thread and the thread's 3rd post;

I respond directly to RI point of contention:


Red Ibis has yet to answer me.

While the point is perhaps trivial and RI was only trying to badger the OP's author I find it curious that RI cannot bring himself to actually discuss his original thought on the thread.

This is very obnoxious.

First of all, I directly addressed your post. I said specifically, I don't see any evidence of that either. No evidence that Sonnenfeld cannot complete a thought or a sentence.

Secondly, your so-called direct question to me was sarcastic and disingenuous, so stop badgering me.

Furthermore, I explained my position on Sonnenfeld's testimony in the very same post. What more can I say than I'm suspicious until he releases his tapes?

[jhunter1163]

Bravo, Redtail.

[jaydeehess]

This is very obnoxious.

First of all, I directly addressed your post. I said specifically, I don't see any evidence of that either. No evidence that Sonnenfeld cannot complete a thought or a sentence.


My bad so you did.
RI, if my question was sarcastic and disengenuous then it was no more so than your first post.

So it would not have been a better title.

What would have been RI?

I see him not completing his thoughts. He makes a statement such as his noticing that things had been removed from CIA offices in the WTC, but never explains what was removed or how in blue blazes a guy who is filming the rubble pile of the building that the office was in would be able to discern that something had been removed from that office.
He says that many things were suspicious to him but really never explains what or why except for a few things such as "no damage to buildings next to WTC 7" which is simply wrong.

YOU took exception to the OP, I asked about changing the title and you claim you see no evidence that he cannot complete a thought?

Sonnefeld is the one on heroin. That may explain why he cannot explain himself.

[T.A.M.]

We all know anyone coming forward is going to be ridiculed, called a liar,greedy, nazi,etc..etc. Why do we even bother.

yes because whistleblowers are such weak pathetic cowards as to hold back revealing evidence of murders of 3000 people simply because of the name calling...

It was a pathetic excuse in 2006, it is an OLD and pathetic excuse now!

TAM:)

[RedIbis]

YOU took exception to the OP, I asked about changing the title and you claim you see no evidence that he cannot complete a thought?

Sonnefeld is the one on heroin. That may explain why he cannot explain himself.

I also took exception to Sonnenfeld's account until he produces the tapes and something significant is found to be on them. Until then, his story is mildly interesting at best, as I stated before.

The fact that he might have struggled with drug dependency is not something I'm going to judge him for, and if the tapes turn out to be significant, his drug problems will have no bearing on it, nor will his aquittal of charges of murder.

[Jackanory]

I also took exception to Sonnenfeld's account until he produces the tapes and something significant is found to be on them. Until then, his story is mildly interesting at best, as I stated before.

The fact that he might have struggled with drug dependency is not something I'm going to judge him for, and if the tapes turn out to be significant, his drug problems will have no bearing on it, nor will his aquittal of charges of murder.

So a fugitive, heroin dependent, murdering thief (all of which he has admitted) is to be trusted - but only if he can produce the goods?

When it turns out that the supposed missing tapes show nothing new then RI will simply imply that another cover up exists and move on.

Whilst on the subject - Who took the footage and stills of the man taking the 'smoking gun footage and stills' and where is that footage and stills?

[RedIbis]

So a fugitive, heroin dependent, murdering thief (all of which he has admitted) is to be trusted - but only if he can produce the goods?

When it turns out that the supposed missing tapes show nothing new then RI will simply imply that another cover up exists and move on.

Whilst on the subject - Who took the footage and stills of the man taking the 'smoking gun footage and stills' and where is that footage and stills?

He admitted to being a murderer? From what I can tell those charges were dropped. I was incorrect when I said he was aquitted. He never faced those charges.

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

He admitted to being a murderer? From what I can tell those charges were dropped.

1.) Yes, and 2.) Wrong.

Shortly after his release, his former cellmates told authorities that he had confessed to murdering his wife, and charges have been refiled. Sonnenfeld has been living in Argentina ever since (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2009/06/well-well-well-another-troofer-murderer.html)

[RedIbis]

1.) Yes, and 2.) Wrong.

Shortly after his release, his former cellmates told authorities that he had confessed to murdering his wife, and charges have been refiled. Sonnenfeld has been living in Argentina ever since (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2009/06/well-well-well-another-troofer-murderer.html)

1) No, a cellmate claimed he did. There's a world of difference.

2) I don't want to get into a protracted semantics argument, but the charges were dropped. That they were later refiled does not change that.

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

I don't want to get into a protracted semantics argument, but the charges were dropped. That they were later refiled does not change that.

I don't envy poor Travis one little bit for the fierce winnowing he's going to need to do this month, Stundie nomination-wise.

Personally, I'm beginning to think that some of you are just plain ol', garden variety attention whores.

[RedIbis]

I don't envy poor Travis one little bit for the fierce winnowing he's going to need to do this month, Stundie nomination-wise.

Personally, I'm beginning to think that some of you are just plain ol', garden variety attention whores.

Unfortunately, it won't get too far. I never seem to take home the prize. Nor will your astounding "logic", that a cellmate's claim is the same as a confession, be recognized for its singular stundiliousness. They don't like to pick on their own.

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

Unfortunately, it won't get too far. I never seem to take home the prize.

The fact that you're continually nominated, however, speaks well of your chances in the future. For what it's worth: I absolutely believe you can do it.

:dl:

[Tweeter]

Now thats a knee slapper right there, Wimpy.

[defaultdotxbe]

(quote from stundie nomination thread)
I don't want to hurt my chances here, but when the charges were refiled, were they exactly the same? Were they different? What's your source (besides SLC) about the refiling?

the source is linked in the SLC post:

The charges against Sonnenfeld were dismissed just before trial in June 2002 after a note written by Nancy Sonnenfeld was found that supported Kurt Sonnenfeld's contention that she took her own life.

New charges were filed in 2004, however, after two Denver jail inmates came forward to say Sonnenfeld had confessed to them during his time in custody. By then, Sonnenfeld had remarried and was living in Argentina.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5555425,00.html


keep up that truth-quality research, red, your doing great

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

(quote from stundie nomination thread)


the source is linked in the SLC post:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5555425,00.html


keep up that truth-quality research, red, your doing great

Additional li'l fun facts (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3243.0;wap2), re: the so-called "suicide" of Nancy Sonnenfeld:

"A month before Denver photographer Kurt Sonnenfeld allegedly killed his wife, she presented him with separation papers and gave him until New Year's Day - the day she died - to get out of their house [...]"

"Police were called to the couple's Congress Park home about 1:30 a.m. New Year's Day after Sonnenfeld called 911 and said his wife had attempted suicide. There, police couldn't get in the house because Sonnenfeld was either unable or refused to unlock the front door. [...] Once they were inside, Kurt Sonnenfeld revived, and officers were forced to wrestle him to the floor after he became combative [...]"

"Dr. Amy Martin of the Denver coroner's office found numerous bruises on Nancy Sonnenfeld's body, which she said indicated the woman had been involved in a struggle. There were bruises under Nancy Sonnenfeld's chin, and on her left kneecap, right elbow, right foot and both hands."

"A gunshot wound appeared to be in the back of Nancy Sonnenfeld's head."

"A puddle of blood away from where Nancy Sonnenfeld was found indicated 'that she had been moved to the position where officers found her.'"

"There was no evidence usually found in suicide cases that would show the gun was fired at extremely close range."

"Officers observed apparent blood spatter on Kurt Sonnenfeld's face."

Oh, yeah. No reason to suspect anything hinky about this so-called "suicide," by golly... :rolleyes:

[RedIbis]

(quote from stundie nomination thread)


the source is linked in the SLC post:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5555425,00.html


keep up that truth-quality research, red, your doing great

I read that, but I was just curious if there was other specific information about the refiled charges. The only info I could find about the extradition requests was from what Sonnenfeld said himself. There are a lot of articles from SA, but I don't speak Spanish fluently.

I can assure everyone that I'm not going to get wrapped up into one of these lingering exchanges because I've said from the very beginning that I don't put too much into his story until he releases his tapes. In other words, don't expect to try to paint me as defending him in any way.

[dtugg]

Isn't Zundel in jail?

Do you often put yourself in this catagory (white supremist and Holocaust denier)?

9/11-investigator is a Holocaust denying bigot also. I'm sure he admires Zundel.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Additional li'l fun facts (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3243.0;wap2), re: the so-called "suicide" of Nancy Sonnenfeld:

"A month before Denver photographer Kurt Sonnenfeld allegedly killed his wife, she presented him with separation papers and gave him until New Year's Day - the day she died - to get out of their house [...]"

"Police were called to the couple's Congress Park home about 1:30 a.m. New Year's Day after Sonnenfeld called 911 and said his wife had attempted suicide. There, police couldn't get in the house because Sonnenfeld was either unable or refused to unlock the front door. [...] Once they were inside, Kurt Sonnenfeld revived, and officers were forced to wrestle him to the floor after he became combative [...]"

"Dr. Amy Martin of the Denver coroner's office found numerous bruises on Nancy Sonnenfeld's body, which she said indicated the woman had been involved in a struggle. There were bruises under Nancy Sonnenfeld's chin, and on her left kneecap, right elbow, right foot and both hands."

"A gunshot wound appeared to be in the back of Nancy Sonnenfeld's head."

"A puddle of blood away from where Nancy Sonnenfeld was found indicated 'that she had been moved to the position where officers found her.'"

"There was no evidence usually found in suicide cases that would show the gun was fired at extremely close range."

"Officers observed apparent blood spatter on Kurt Sonnenfeld's face."

Oh, yeah. No reason to suspect anything hinky about this so-called "suicide," by golly... :rolleyes:


OK, so I was wrong in my previous post about there being apparently no evidence to implicate him in his wife's death.

All of that, as well as the rather weak "suicide note", does make me wonder how the charges were ever dropped in the first place.

He may have confessed to his cellmates, because he honestly thought he was going to be nailed to the wall. When the charges were dropped and was released, he saw an opportunity and fled. Now he's cooking up this weak story about how he's being hunted in a bid to make some money.

[Galileo]

Additional li'l fun facts (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3243.0;wap2), re: the so-called "suicide" of Nancy Sonnenfeld:

"A month before Denver photographer Kurt Sonnenfeld allegedly killed his wife, she presented him with separation papers and gave him until New Year's Day - the day she died - to get out of their house [...]"

"Police were called to the couple's Congress Park home about 1:30 a.m. New Year's Day after Sonnenfeld called 911 and said his wife had attempted suicide. There, police couldn't get in the house because Sonnenfeld was either unable or refused to unlock the front door. [...] Once they were inside, Kurt Sonnenfeld revived, and officers were forced to wrestle him to the floor after he became combative [...]"

"Dr. Amy Martin of the Denver coroner's office found numerous bruises on Nancy Sonnenfeld's body, which she said indicated the woman had been involved in a struggle. There were bruises under Nancy Sonnenfeld's chin, and on her left kneecap, right elbow, right foot and both hands."

"A gunshot wound appeared to be in the back of Nancy Sonnenfeld's head."

"A puddle of blood away from where Nancy Sonnenfeld was found indicated 'that she had been moved to the position where officers found her.'"

"There was no evidence usually found in suicide cases that would show the gun was fired at extremely close range."

"Officers observed apparent blood spatter on Kurt Sonnenfeld's face."

Oh, yeah. No reason to suspect anything hinky about this so-called "suicide," by golly... :rolleyes:

quotes from newspaper articles are not evidence.

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

quotes from newspaper articles are not evidence.

Every time any Twoofer, anywhere, dares utter the word "evidence": God throws up in his mouth, just a little. :rolleyes:

[Caustic Logic]

This is the most pathetic display of straw-grabbing I've seen in a bit. I don't care who wants to toss their credibilty down the well after Sonnenfeld, and FEMA seems to be surviving without their tapes. But I do hope for his ex-wife's sake and her family's and his current wife and daughter's sake, that he is turned-out, disowned, extradited and persecuted for his alleged crime to the full extent of law, once duly tried in court. I also hope Paula and the little one can get to a safe place until this process is complete.

[Galileo]

Every time any Twoofer, anywhere, dares utter the word "evidence": God throws up in his mouth, just a little. :rolleyes:

There is no such thing as "God", it is the JREFers who throw up at the mention of evidence.

If Sonnenfeld did it, and the evidence you cite is real, then the prosecutor would not have dropped the charges.

;)

Sonnenfeld has the goods, the debunkers lose.

[Thunder]

Sonnenfeld has the goods, the debunkers lose.

Sonnenfeld has nothing new. You will know us "debunkers" have lost when we are all in jail for our "crime" of doubting 9-11 truth.

....not holding my breath.

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

If Sonnenfeld did it, and the evidence you cite is real, then the prosecutor would not have dropped the charges.


Kurt "Wife-Slayer" Sonnenfeld's upcoming extradition from Argentina -- where said worthless junkie Twoofer cowers and sweats at present -- may actually come as less of a drop-dead shock to him than it (doubtless) will to you.

Bonus.:D

[eromitlab]

Sonnenfeld has the goods, the debunkers lose.

For a second there, I thought it was about justice for the victims, holding government accountable, speaking truth to power and things along those lines. Good to know that 9/11 truth is really just a game on the internet to be won or lost.

[aggle-rithm]

There is no such thing as "God", it is the JREFers who throw up at the mention of evidence.


Oh, right...I'm always getting those confused.

[Galileo]

Kurt "Wife-Slayer" Sonnenfeld's upcoming extradition from Argentina -- where said worthless junkie Twoofer cowers and sweats at present -- may actually come as less of a drop-dead shock to him than it (doubtless) will to you.

Bonus.:D

According to the nearest eyewitness, it was a suicide.

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

According to the nearest eyewitness, it was a suicide.

Not even close. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4852248&postcount=115) Try again. :rolleyes:

[jaydeehess]

Sonnenfeld has the goods, the debunkers lose.

Putting aside the notion that this is merely an exercise in internet forum "GOTCHA"............

Tell us what "goods" Sonnefeld has?

Fact is he has not said anything specific that cannot be debunked immediatly.
(ie. no damage to the buildings surrounding WTC 7)

Everything else falls under what I have refered to as his not completeing a thought.(ie. what did he film at ground zero that allows him to recognize what had been removed from the CIA offices?)

<< prediction: Galileo will avoid my inquiry>>

[Galileo]

Not even close. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4852248&postcount=115) Try again. :rolleyes:

I'm shocked that you would accuse FEMA of murder.

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

<< prediction: Galileo will avoid my inquiry>>

We've just conclusively demonstrated the actual existence of precognition as a psychic phenomenon. James Randi now owes you $1,000,000. :D

[jaydeehess]

We've just conclusively demonstrated the actual existence of precognition as a psychic phenomenon. James Randi now owes you $1,000,000. :D

I decided to give him a few extra days but it would appear I am now a relatively rich man. I'd like it all in $5 Canadian bills please.:D

[Lenbrazil]

Question for Galileo and the other truthers

When did Sonnenfeld get to Ground Zero?