'Ark of the Covenant' about to be unveiled

[Marduk]

The patriarch of the Orthodox Church of Ethiopia says he will announce to the world Friday the unveiling of the Ark of the Covenant, perhaps the world's most prized archaeological and spiritual artifact, which he says has been hidden away in a church in his country for millennia, according to the Italian news agency Adnkronos.

Abuna Pauolos, in Italy for a meeting with Pope Benedict XVI this week, told the news agency, "Soon the world will be able to admire the Ark of the Covenant described in the Bible as the container of the tablets of the law that God delivered to Moses and the center of searches and studies for centuries."

The announcement is expected to be made at 2 p.m. Italian time from the Hotel Aldrovandi in Rome. Pauolos will reportedly be accompanied by Prince Aklile Berhan Makonnen Haile Sellassie and Duke Amedeo D'Acosta.

I bet Graham Hancock can hear the royalty check being written
:D

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=102119

[JohnG]

Keep your eyes shut, Marion Marduk!

[Monster Machine]

They might need a decent Wet Dry Vac for all of the melted bodies...

Monster

[Marduk]

don't worry about me, I have a pair of Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses
http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~fruit/HITCHHIKER/keinepanik09.html
;)

[Pure_Argent]

Okay... so.. he's officially announced it.
What do you think will happen when it is unveiled? How long until people realize that it's just another false alarm?

[madurobob]

Huh. I saw a show on Discovery or History channel or some such about a year ago where the archeologist swore the Ark was carried into Ethiopia, but then tracked it further south and West. At one point the tribe, who had some Semitic genetic history, claimed their ancestors brought the original there but it was destroyed in a fire, but no worries since they made an exact replica.

Eventually the Ark was found tucked away in a museum (In DR Congo?) and revealed when the presenter sneaked in a hidden camera. It was a simple large wooden oblong bowl with "ears" on the side for carrying poles to slip through. Quite a let down.

I hope Ethiopia comes up with something more compelling.

[TimCallahan]

I wonder if they'll allow it to be tested by radiocarbon dating.

[Denver]

I wonder if they'll allow it to be tested by radiocarbon dating.

This could be pretty cool - but yes, even if the story checks out, I expect there will be the same issues over its authenticity as the shroud of Turin.

[Biscuit]

Huh. I saw a show on Discovery or History channel or some such about a year ago where the archeologist swore the Ark was carried into Ethiopia, but then tracked it further south and West. At one point the tribe, who had some Semitic genetic history, claimed their ancestors brought the original there but it was destroyed in a fire, but no worries since they made an exact replica.

Eventually the Ark was found tucked away in a museum (In DR Congo?) and revealed when the presenter sneaked in a hidden camera. It was a simple large wooden oblong bowl with "ears" on the side for carrying poles to slip through. Quite a let down.

I hope Ethiopia comes up with something more compelling.

I saw that show as well, it was a breath of rational air from a channel that has been jumping on the woo band wagon.

My brother is living in Ethiopia right now, I will send an email to warn him!

[Marduk]

How long until people realize that it's just another false alarm?


about ten seconds after its opened and people don't start melting of course
:D

[Pure_Argent]

This could be pretty cool - but yes, even if the story checks out, I expect there will be the same issues over its authenticity as the shroud of Turin.

Wait, you mean there were actually people who BOUGHT the whole "Shroud of Turin" thing?
Oh, lordy... my faith in mankind just went down the toity.

I wonder if they'll allow it to be tested by radiocarbon dating.

"Well, if you were him and he was you, would you?" - Radar O'Reilly, M*A*S*H

about ten seconds after its opened and people don't start melting of course

No, they thought of that. There's a source of extreme radiation inside. The melty kind of radiation, that is.

[kedo1981]

Ish da trans-mitter for da tak-inc mit GOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Und get big ratings on der history channel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Marduk]

Before
http://www.wnd.com/images/headshots/abunapauolos.jpg
After
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/toht.jpg
:)

[Phage0070]

about ten seconds after its opened and people don't start melting of course
:D

Heck, I wish they *could* find the thing so people could grab it and prove God does not smite people. Can you imagine the field trips?

[JohnG]

I don't know, the Ark the Mythbusters built smote Adam pretty well.;)

fIQU2K6KlsA

[Marduk]

I don't know, the Ark the Mythbusters built smote Adam pretty well.;)


you'd better hope that the inbuilt electric fense transformer hasn't degraded in the last two millenia then
;)

[JohnG]

Two millennia? Is that your final answer?

[Marduk]

Two millennia? Is that your final answer?

yup, that was the last time an electrical engineer was available to service it
;)

[Psi Baba]

Interesting. The article says that Paulos will announce the unveiling, which means the actual unveiling (if it ever happens) could be who knows when. More importantly, has there been any indication as to why they are suddenly promising to unveil it?

[godless dave]

More importantly, has there been any indication as to why they are suddenly promising to unveil it?

That's my question. They've been claiming they had it, in a specific building no less, for decades if not longer.

[Monster Machine]

From the WND article:

"The Ark of the Covenant is in Ethiopia for many centuries," said Pauolos. "As a patriarch I have seen it with my own eyes and only few highly qualified persons could do the same, until now."
Bolding mine.

What does that mean? We haven't allowed people to see it until now? God hasn't allowed people to see it until now?

What changed?

Also, they quote this (which debunks the thought of it being the real Ark):

Jeremiah 3:16 points to a time when the Ark will vanish not only physically, but from the minds of the people: "And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more."



I believe people have been talking about it for years, no? Didn't Hollywood make a little movie about it with Harrison Ford?

Monster

[Marduk]

isn't that quote talking about the children of Israel specifically though, I don't have the teachers edition, can someone look up in the index if it says anything about it coming to mind for Ethiopean Patriarchs
:)

[Marduk]

More importantly, has there been any indication as to why they are suddenly promising to unveil it?

Ebay ?
:D

[JohnG]

yup, that was the last time an electrical engineer was available to service it
;)

Oh, that's alright then.:D

[Nogbad]

I know this is a mad idea but why shouldn't the Ethiopians have an old wooden box. It might even be the one that was in the temple. Lots of temples have wooden boxes and holy of holies etc., Of course the box could be Egyptian rather than Semitic but who knows.

From an archaeological point of view it is interesting.

[Marduk]

I know this is a mad idea but why shouldn't the Ethiopians have an old wooden box. It might even be the one that was in the temple. Lots of temples have wooden boxes and holy of holies etc., Of course the box could be Egyptian rather than Semitic but who knows.

From an archaeological point of view it is interesting.

Technically the Ark is Egyptian, it was based on Egyptian designs and constructed in Egypt.

;)

I have some old wooden boxes, and the Holy Grail which I purchased on ebay, it is true, it gives eternal life, I'm still here

[Monster Machine]

I know this is a mad idea but why shouldn't the Ethiopians have an old wooden box. It might even be the one that was in the temple. Lots of temples have wooden boxes and holy of holies etc., Of course the box could be Egyptian rather than Semitic but who knows.

From an archaeological point of view it is interesting.

I agree. I hope an opportunity is given to authenticate it.

Monster

[JoeTheJuggler]

So do they have the stone tablets inside still?

You would think that something divinely made like that would be something you could avoid losing track of.

[TimCallahan]

Wait, you mean there were actually people who BOUGHT the whole "Shroud of Turin" thing?
Oh, lordy... my faith in mankind just went down the toity.


Not only did they buy the whole Shroud of Turin thing, but when the radiocarbon dating tests pegged the shroud as having been made in the 1200s, they came up with a host of rationalizations as to why the radiocarbon tests were so far off. These included such arguments as, the samples used were from burned areas, which had altered carbon-14 levels, and that the samples tested came from patches made with younger cloth. However, the textile experts who took samples took care to cut away from patched and burned areas.

Should the ark turn out to be the right age, that would be quite fascinating. I see no particualr reason it couldn't have been smuggled out of Judah and taken to the southern straits of the Red Sea. Of course, I don't expect it to melt anybody's face.

[shadron]

yup, that was the last time an electrical engineer was available to service it
;)

Top men.

[Retrograde]

I have some old wooden boxes, and the Holy Grail which I purchased on ebay, it is true, it gives eternal life, I'm still here


In Innocents Abroad, Mark Twain started keeping track of all the pieces of the true cross and crowns of thorns his party was shown in various places. I have personally seen a piece of the true cross (it was very tiny, but I grew up in a rather insignificant parish - would nuns lie to me?) and the box the crown of thorns came in - Louis IX would buy anything if it came with a good story. If I ever had more money than I knew what to do with, I'd fund DNA analyses of the various relics in European cathedrals - the Florence Duomo alone has several armbones of John the Baptist.

Back to the topic, rather it is the Arc mentioned in the Bible or not it has historical significance just for being around and revered for so long: we don't have all that much that old from that part of the world. I'd love to see the pictures.

[Marduk]

we don't have all that much that old from that part of the world. I'd love to see the pictures.
http://mr07.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/pyramids.jpg
lol



;)

[Retrograde]

I meant Ethiopia, of course. Egypt's got oodles of stuff: according to an interview I heard with Zahi Hawass yesterday they've only unearthed about 30% of it, if that. And IIRC, there's nary a mention of any Arcs in ancient Egyptian texts. I'm looking forward to the scholarly battles of provence, ancestry, and the people who built in the first place.

[Marduk]

And IIRC, there's nary a mention of any Arcs in ancient Egyptian texts.
Everything about the Arc is Egyptian, Moses was Egyptian and similar Ark like artifacts have been found all over Egypt both in tombs and drawn on the walls
this one was from Tutankhmens tomb
http://www.greatdreams.com/ark-covenant.jpg
;)

So don't be too surprised if the Ethiopeans do have an Ark like object that dates to the right period, just don't expect any broken tablets inside, they were usually (in Egypt) used to contain Law Papyri,

[MattusMaximus]

Looks like they took video footage of the announcement...

ZmuSck6uoZI

:D

[SusanB-M1]

I wonder what Laurence Gardner ('Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark') will have to say? I mean, it's going to ruin his conclusion that the real Ark is in a parallel dimension hovering above the labyrinth in Chartres Cathedral.:)

[Cainkane1]

I'd like to see the ark. I read somewhere that the ark the Ethiopians have is a copy of the ancient ark but it would still be worth seeing. If I remember correctly a queen of Ethiopia after seeing the original ark wanted one for herself and that ark is what they have.

[boloboffin]

A couple of my favorite quotes from the article:

He claims that after the Ethiopian civil war, Israel sent in a group of commandos from the tribe of Levi and the carried the Ark onto a plane and back to Israel in 1991.

"God's presence was on the mercy seat. That was the throne of God," he said.

If the account were accurate, Rives said God would have been dwelling on an Ark replica in Jerusalem.

"I just don't believe they could have persuaded him to sit on a fake Ark of the Covenant," he said.

Rives said a close inspection of the Ten Commandments would be necessary to ensure they are in accordance with true text and not later versions of the Ten Commandments.

[headscratcher4]

Suppose they have one? How does it change anything...other than an object that the bible said existed exists? It seems pretty meaningless from a religious standpoint (though I supppose Orthodox Jews might differ...but I'm not sure). From an archological standpoint, it would be facinating.

[Marduk]

Suppose they have one? How does it change anything...

Well if they find it and Yahweh is still in residence that means that he can be put on trial at the Hague for "crimes against humanity" and "Genocide", I also imagine that animal conservation groups won't be happy to see him back either.

The fact that he boasted about all these exploits in a book to his publisher Moses is gonna cause his defense team some headaches. He'd have to deny the validity of the bible to get off
:D

thinking about that, if he was found guilty wouldn't that make anyone following his manifesto an illegal organisation akin to a terrorist group.

[Monster Machine]

Suppose they have one? How does it change anything...other than an object that the bible said existed exists? It seems pretty meaningless from a religious standpoint (though I supppose Orthodox Jews might differ...but I'm not sure). From an archological standpoint, it would be facinating.


The Shroud of Turin, though debunked, is still held as proof that it was the wrapping of Jesus's body by those who want to believe.

It won't matter whether the Ark is proven to be of a certain age or not. If it is proven to be thousands of years old, the zealots will claim it's proof of the bible, even though there's no proof that it is what it's claimed to be.

And if it's proven to be dated around 1400 AD, the zealots will claim it's the fault of carbon dating, or the sample used for testing was from a repair carried out in the 1400's, etc.

ANY mention of an archeological find carries the biblical myth that much further, and having been a past christian I can speak to this.

Monster

[headscratcher4]

My real point was...that it exposed is, imo, unlikely to do anything more to prove the existence of god than it does hidden. In other words, no Indiana Jones demonstrations of heavenly power or wrath...just a box.

[blutoski]

Comic: [PVPOnline (http://www.pvponline.com/2009/04/09/its-beautiful/)]

[Big Les]

Sigh.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=102274

[Marduk]

still, I have to say, this line
is enshrined in a temple today where they don't let anybody see it.
sounds slightly familiar when evidence is required with biblical supposed relics
;)

[Starthinker]

Where is the announcement? I'm waiting with baited breath.

[Monster Machine]

My real point was...that it exposed is, imo, unlikely to do anything more to prove the existence of god than it does hidden. In other words, no Indiana Jones demonstrations of heavenly power or wrath...just a box.

Absolutely. Rationally, it only proves a box was found.

To a hardcore christian, this box (to them) would prove the existence of their god, much like they believe the Shroud of Turin shows their lord and saviour, even though we only see a man (and a fake).


Monster

[Monster Machine]

Where is the announcement? I'm waiting with baited breath.

I hope the patriarch didn't trip on his robes doing his backpeddling (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=102274):

We won't see it afterall.


Monster

[parky76]

what if this happens!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3KV4fLSNoU

[Skeptic Ginger]

Hark! Where's the Bible Ark? (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=102274)Ethiopia's Orthodox patriarch cops out on revealing plan for public viewing


This sounds quite suspicious:"The state of conservation is good because it is not made from man's hand, but is something that God has made," Pauolos said, according to the report.Looks rather new, you say? Riiiight.


Edited to add: I see this was already noted.

[Silly Green Monkey]

Didn't they read the assembly instructions? The Israelites constructed the Ark.

[Skeptic Ginger]

This is interesting. In the OP link:"The Ark of the Covenant is in Ethiopia for many centuries," said Pauolos. "As a patriarch I have seen it with my own eyes and only few highly qualified persons could do the same, until now."

But in this link from the Smithsonian, Christians in Ethiopia have long claimed to have the ark of the covenant. Our reporter investigated (http://www.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=Smithsonian+Magazine+|+People+%26+Places+|+K eepers+of+the+Lost+Ark%3F&expire=&urlID=25104449&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smithsonianmag.com%2Fpeople-places%2Fark-covenant-200712.html&partnerID=253162):I asked if the ark in Ethiopia resembles the one described in the Bible: almost four feet long, just over two feet high and wide, surmounted by two winged cherubs facing each other across its heavy lid, forming the "mercy seat," or footstool for the throne of God. Paulos shrugged. "Can you believe that even though I'm head of the Ethiopian church, I'm still forbidden from seeing it?" he said. "The guardian of the ark is the only person on earth who has that peerless honor."


It also says the guy has a PhD in theology from Princeton.

[dropzone]

I believe people have been talking about it for years, no? Didn't Hollywood make a little movie about it with Harrison Ford?He saw it, but Harrison Ford is half-Jewish, so he couldn't look ito it.

[JohnG]

According to Adam Sandler, Ford is a quarter jewish - not too shabby!

[Safe-Keeper]

what if this happens!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3KV4fLSNoUAccording to the Bible, God kills you if you so much as touch it, even to save it from toppling (I'd insert a note on what I feel about God here, but you all know already, so I won't).

[realpaladin]

According to the Bible, God kills you if you so much as touch it, even to save it from toppling (I'd insert a note on what I feel about God here, but you all know already, so I won't). God had no way of knowing that we would invent ROV's of course...

[ugot2bekidding]

about ten seconds after its opened and people don't start melting of course
:D

Apparently, its power has degraded over time. They claim the current care-taker is blind from exposure to it (as were all the previous care-takers).

[scimystic]

Odd. I'd have guessed Nigeria as the most likely discovery spot. They seem to have a flair for this kind of thing.

[MattusMaximus]

Sigh.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=102274

Wow. Color me surprised :rolleyes:

[Retrograde]

Oh ye of little faith, of course the thing exists - there's a picture right there on the web page! What did you say? That's a sketch based on a description by someone who's now conveniently dead who claimed to have seen it from a tunnel no one's able to relocate? But it looks just like what it should look like so it must be accurate?

Assuming the Ark of the Covenant existed in the first place, I'd put my money on its having disintegrated over time, or became spoils of war in one of the destructions of Jerusalem, or both, and its ending up hidden in Africa a long shot. Still, it would have been interesting to have seen what they have.

[Marduk]

What did you say? That's a sketch based on a description by someone who's now conveniently dead who claimed to have seen it from a tunnel no one's able to relocate?
that someone was Ron Wyatt
heres some of the other things he claims to have found


Noah's Ark (the Durupınar site, located 18.25 miles south of Mount Ararat at an altitude of 6,525 feet above sea level)
Anchor stones (or drogue stones) used by Noah on the Ark
The post-flood house, grave markers and tombs of Noah and his wife
The location of Sodom and Gomorrah and the other (3) Cities of the Plain: Zoar, Zeboim and Admah
Sulfur/brimstone balls from the ashen remains of Sodom and Gomorrah.
The Tower of Babel site in southern Turkey
The site of the Israelites' crossing of the Red Sea (located in the Gulf of Aqaba)
Chariot wheels and other relics of the army of Pharaoh at the bottom of the Red Sea
The true site of the biblical Mt. Sinai, located by Wyatt in Saudi Arabia at Jabal al Lawz
A chamber at the end of a maze of tunnels under Jerusalem containing artifacts from Solomon's Temple
The site of the Crucifixion of Jesus
The Ark of the Covenant (container with the Ten Commandments)
The original stones of the Ten Commandments (the second set)
Blood of Jesus, dripped onto the Mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant, directly beneath the Crucifixion site
nuff said ?
;)

[Retrograde]

Yup, 'nuff said. I notice you didn't quote the second paragraph of the Wikipedia article you took the list of claims from, so I'll include it:

His claims are dismissed by scientists, historians, biblical scholars, and even by leaders in his own Seventh-day Adventist Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church), but he continues to have a strongly motivated, if narrowly-based, following among some fundamentalists and evangelicals

What is it about biblical archeology that lends itself to the highly credulous and leads to so much closed-loop reasoning? Wishful thinking?

[Marduk]

What is it about biblical archeology that lends itself to the highly credulous and leads to so much closed-loop reasoning? Wishful thinking?
oh the usual
Fear of death,
;)

[JohnG]

That, and the fear of a "meaningless" universe.

[rsaavedra]

I saw that show as well, it was a breath of rational air from a channel that has been jumping on the woo band wagon.
Strongly agreeing with this. The History Channel doesn't seem to be doing justice to its name. Not that much history they deal with, but current pseudoscience and its historical roots.

[Beerina]

Before
http://www.wnd.com/images/headshots/abunapauolos.jpg
After
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/toht.jpg
:)


You'd think they's have used Morgan Freeman's face as the model for the melting sequence instead of just re-using the earlier movie's sequence.

[TimCallahan]

I thought the face melting thing only happened if you took the lid off and looked inside. Sort of like what happened if you touched it and got fried. like poor Uzzah. One response to the suggestion that one look into the ark might be, "Well melt my face and call me slappy!"

However, there might also be a question as to whether the ark was meant to be in Ethiopia. In 1 Sam. 5:6 - 9 God afflicted the people of Ashdod - the city in which the ark resided once the Philistines had captured in from the Israelites in battle - with "emerods" according to the KJV or tumors according to the RSV, in their private parts. The word in Hebrew is "'ophel" which itself derives from "'aphel" meaning "to be lifted up." So this can be a tumor or a mound. Perhaps God afflicted the Philistines with genital warts.

Or maybe the King James Version's "emerods" meant hemhorroids, as has been traditionally thought. So maybe the patriarch of the Ethiopian church decided not to reveal the ark when his hemhorroids started flaring up.

[Marduk]

lets not forget that the Ark was manufacured while Moses was travelling the sinai on his way to israel, obviously its existence is as credible as the rest of the story, I dont know about anyone else but I totally believe that it would take 40 years to cross 1000 miles of desert while the lord is showing you the way as a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night, thats what 20 miles a year. totally credible, its the Jonah story where he crosses the same distance from the med to Nineveh in 24 hours that I find hard to swallow. still lets all have faith in the beliefs of some bronze age farmers, they were there so they should know the truth, who cares if theres no evidence they even existed in the real world
:D

[pchams]

My guess is, that they stumbled upon some radioactive waste left by a prior intelligent civilisation long gone, or some extra-terrestrial matter, and it disfigured a few people. So they plopped it in a box, and called it god.

:D

[boloboffin]

The patriarch said that the Ark was in great shape because it was built by God, not man -- but as someone pointed out above, the Hebrew Scriptures say that men built it according to rather explicit instructions. Oh, well.

[Aepervius]

Apparently, its power has degraded over time. They claim the current care-taker is blind from exposure to it (as were all the previous care-takers).

AHA ! I knew it ! In reality in the ark were not tablette of law, but Moise hidden collection of porn !

[TimCallahan]

Looked into the Ark, cuz I was feelin' scrappy.
I said, "Open that lid, an' make it snappy!"
I thought the whole thing was a bunch of woo
'til the angel turned my face iinto goo!
Even so, I still am happy.
So melt my face an' call me 'Slappy'!

[realpaladin]

lets not forget that the Ark was manufacured while Moses was travelling the sinai on his way to israel, obviously its existence is as credible as the rest of the story, I dont know about anyone else but I totally believe that it would take 40 years to cross 1000 miles of desert while the lord is showing you the way as a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night, thats what 20 miles a year. totally credible, its the Jonah story where he crosses the same distance from the med to Nineveh in 24 hours that I find hard to swallow. still lets all have faith in the beliefs of some bronze age farmers, they were there so they should know the truth, who cares if theres no evidence they even existed in the real world
:D

God and his kids were wimps: http://www.darbaroud.com/index_uk.php

[scimystic]

My guess is, that they stumbled upon some radioactive waste left by a prior intelligent civilisation long gone, or some extra-terrestrial matter, and it disfigured a few people. So they plopped it in a box, and called it god.

:D

It's still doing the same job. But nowadays just works on brains rather than faces.

[iiwo]

lets not forget that the Ark was manufacured while Moses was travelling the sinai on his way to israel, obviously its existence is as credible as the rest of the story, I dont know about anyone else but I totally believe that it would take 40 years to cross 1000 miles of desert while the lord is showing you the way as a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night, thats what 20 miles a year. totally credible, its the Jonah story where he crosses the same distance from the med to Nineveh in 24 hours that I find hard to swallow. still lets all have faith in the beliefs of some bronze age farmers, they were there so they should know the truth, who cares if theres no evidence they even existed in the real world
:D

Really they did the trip in a matter of months, then chickened out at the last minute. Joshua and all the kids formed an army (think Indiana Jones/Temple of Doom) and conquered Canaan. Moses and anyone out of college (ok ok...that age range, quit being nitpicky ;) ) were punished with wandering in the desert until every last one of them died off or 40 years. Then those left and any children born during the wandering were able to enter Canaan.

That said, I did have a good chuckle at your version. :D

It's still doing the same job. But nowadays just works on brains rather than faces.

:(