Government Absurdities

[Thanz]

What are some of the more absurd actions your government has taken? It could be from any level - local spitting by laws up to national gaffs. I'll start the ball rolling with a recent newspiece on Ontario inspectors:

Inspectors seemingly obsessed with porn videos (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1070406609320)
In his annual report, the auditor noted the deployment of resources by the Ministry of Consumer and Business Services appeared to have little to do with the degree of risk to the public.

The report notes the No. 1 complaint to the ministry for the past five years has been about debt collection.

There were about 4,000 complaints and inquiries related to debt collectors last year, including 800 written, formal complaints.

Despite the avalanche, the ministry did only 10 inspections.

Similarly, almost 2,000 complaints about motor vehicle repairs prompted just six inspections.

By contrast, the ministry carried out almost 1,600 inspections of video retail stores despite receiving just eight complaints — none in writing.

Those inspections involved checking whether the stores had valid licences "and were selling adult videos only with proper stickers indicating their ratings," the report states.

And this legislative gem from the Ontario Beef Cattle Marketing Act
Licences

3. (1) Except under the authority of a licence, no person shall sell cattle. R.S.O. 1990, c. B.5, s. 3 (1).

Idem

(2) Every person who sells cattle shall be deemed to be the holder of a licence. R.S.O. 1990, c. B.5, s. 3 (2).

That, my friends, is some serious legislating going on right there.

[kerfer]

The recently deposed former governor of the once great state of CA decided that it would be a good thing to give drivers licenses to illegal aliens.

On what planet is that a good idea?

But our new governator fixed that.

[The Don]

Originally posted by kerfer
The recently deposed former governor of the once great state of CA decided that it would be a good thing to give drivers licenses to illegal aliens.

On what planet is that a good idea?

But our new governator fixed that.


Sorry. I fail to understand the problem....

[Thanz]

Originally posted by The Don

Sorry. I fail to understand the problem....
Well, if you can find and indetify the illegal aliens, shouldn't you be deporting them rather than giving them drivers licenses? At the very least you should be requiring them to go through the normal immigration process.

[kerfer]

Originally posted by The Don



Sorry. I fail to understand the problem....

It is no longer a problem.

Gov Arnold applied some pressure to the legislature, and they reversed themselves on a previously stupid law that they had recently passed, but had not yet gone into effect.

So there was about to be a problem (when the former legislation was to take effect) but the problem was avoided by being reversed before the law took effect.

So this in not currently a problem to be understood, and you needn't be sorry.

[Ed]

Originally posted by Thanz
What are some of the more absurd actions your government has taken? It could be from any level - local spitting by laws up to national gaffs. I'll start the ball rolling with a recent newspiece on Ontario inspectors:

Inspectors seemingly obsessed with porn videos (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1070406609320)


And this legislative gem from the Ontario Beef Cattle Marketing Act


That, my friends, is some serious legislating going on right there.

Well, our crackerjack team of legislators deems it important to carefully construct legislation regarding toilet bowls.

And the Brit legislators moved the damn Tower Armouries to ***** LEEDS.

I also understand that ferrets are illeagel in California.

In CT., machine guns are legal but weapons that fire either automatically or semi-automatically are not. Don't want another gun thread, I'm just pointing out idiocy.

Also, did I mention that the Tower Armouries were moved to ***** LEEDS? Thought not.:D

[Luciana]

You know, sometimes an elderly person dies and the family doesn't notify the authorities, therefore keeping the retirement's salary for years at end. That's fraud and it must be stopped. The government decided that the actual number of people over 90 should be measured, therefore...

A week before the day that they were supposed to receive their monthly retirement salary, the media started to advertise that they had to go to the bank agency personally, in order to prove they were alive. If they failed to do that, their money wouldn't be sent.

Now you imagine this looooooong line of men and women, over 90 years of age, outside the bank agencies, standing, under the blazing sun?

A scene to break anyone's heart. In the morning, with the first images, the Minister said that that was the right thing to do and end of story. As criticism mounted, and the images on TV got more shocking (think wheelchairs, stretchers, people fainting, testimonies saying that the lines had an average 3-hour waiting time...), the Minister had no option but apologize. Actually, he should have been fired. But he wasn't and now, to perform the task of looking for fraud, a troup of students will go to the elderly's homes.

[jj]

Originally posted by Luciana Nery
But he wasn't and now, to perform the task of looking for fraud, a troup of students will go to the elderly's homes.

I can just hear it: "Hey, pops, sign over the check and I'll tell them you're still alive".

***sigh***
Yes, there needs to be regulation, but I think you've already pointed out the absurdity here perfectly well.

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by Luciana Nery
You know, sometimes an elderly person dies and the family doesn't notify the authorities, therefore keeping the retirement's salary for years at end. That's fraud and it must be stopped. The government decided that the actual number of people over 90 should be measured, therefore...

A week before the day that they were supposed to receive their monthly retirement salary, the media started to advertise that they had to go to the bank agency personally, in order to prove they were alive. If they failed to do that, their money wouldn't be sent.

Now you imagine this looooooong line of men and women, over 90 years of age, outside the bank agencies, standing, under the blazing sun?

A scene to break anyone's heart. In the morning, with the first images, the Minister said that that was the right thing to do and end of story. As criticism mounted, and the images on TV got more shocking (think wheelchairs, stretchers, people fainting, testimonies saying that the lines had an average 3-hour waiting time...), the Minister had no option but apologize. Actually, he should have been fired. But he wasn't and now, to perform the task of looking for fraud, a troup of students will go to the elderly's homes.

Wouldn't it be easier to have a law that would require upon death a death certificate would be sent to whatever agency handles payments so they can just discontinue it?

[Luciana]

Originally posted by Grammatron
Wouldn't it be easier to have a law that would require upon death a death certificate would be sent to whatever agency handles payments so they can just discontinue it?

But there IS a law! And the vast majority of people follow it. But there's also fraud. And as the whole system is being modified, under the premise that it's corrupt to the core.

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by Luciana Nery


But there IS a law! And the vast majority of people follow it. But there's also fraud. And as the whole system is being modified, under the premise that it's corrupt to the core.

I meant that a hospital should be forced to send it. Unless a person dies at home and they secretly bury him, I don't know how often that happens.

[Tmy]

I think its funny how some states the law says you have to wear a seat belt, but you dont have to wear a hemet if riding a motorcycle. And the states own schoolbuses do not have and are not required to have seatbelts.

[Thanz]

Originally posted by Tmy
I think its funny how some states the law says you have to wear a seat belt, but you dont have to wear a hemet if riding a motorcycle. And the states own schoolbuses do not have and are not required to have seatbelts.
The schoolbus seatbelt issue has been discussed here before. Basically, due to the mass of the bus, injuries from a collision are less of a concern than being able to get the kids out of the bus in a hurry if you have too - if the bus stalls on the railroad tracks or something.

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Thanz

The schoolbus seatbelt issue has been discussed here before. Basically, due to the mass of the bus, injuries from a collision are less of a concern than being able to get the kids out of the bus in a hurry if you have too - if the bus stalls on the railroad tracks or something.

How many times do buses get stalled on railroad tracks vs collisions??? Are kids so dumb that they cant work seatbelts?

[Thanz]

Originally posted by Tmy


How many times do buses get stalled on railroad tracks vs collisions???
Probably once is enough. :p

I think that, in general, if a car hits a bus or vice cersa, the impact will have little effect on the people in the bus.

Are kids so dumb that they cant work seatbelts?
Depending on the age, and in a pressure situation, yes.

[Ed]

Originally posted by Tmy


How many times do buses get stalled on railroad tracks vs collisions??? Are kids so dumb that they cant work seatbelts?

Why do bus accidents always seem to happen in Pakistan or India? Ever notice that?

[LFTKBS]

Originally posted by kerfer
The recently deposed former governor of the once great state of CA decided that it would be a good thing to give drivers licenses to illegal aliens.

On what planet is that a good idea?

But our new governator fixed that.

Yay! Now illegal immigrants will still drive, but there's no way for them to get auto insurance! Hooray! I sure hope I get hit by an uninsured driver and there's no way to cover my repair costs or medical bills! Won't that make California the bestest state in the whole nation?! As an added bonus, your insurance rates go up! Yes, that is so good! What a wonderful idea that is, and you, kerfer, are so smart because you have clearly thought about this issue long and hard! And my gosh, now that they can't get licenses, all the illegal immigrants will just disappear! It's like magic! This infestation of brown people will cease immediately! Three cheers for kerfer! Three cheers for Arnold!

Idiot.

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Thanz

Probably once is enough. :p



[B]
Depending on the age, and in a pressure situation, yes.

If the kids are to dumb to hit a button then maybe they deserve to get stuck in a bus whith a bullet train heading rightfor them (boy if I had a nickel for everytime I saw a train vs school bus story.........i'd have about 5 cents).

Another danger would be trying to get the kids out of the bus after it was hit by a tsunami? Or a meteor shower? Or what of Godzilla attacked the school bus. Those pesky seatbelts would just get in the way!:p

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by LFTKBS


Yay! Now illegal immigrants will still drive, but there's no way for them to get auto insurance! Hooray! I sure hope I get hit by an uninsured driver and there's no way to cover my repair costs or medical bills! Won't that make California the bestest state in the whole nation?! As an added bonus, your insurance rates go up! Yes, that is so good! What a wonderful idea that is, and you, kerfer, are so smart because you have clearly thought about this issue long and hard! And my gosh, now that they can't get licenses, all the illegal immigrants will just disappear! It's like magic! This infestation of brown people will cease immediately! Three cheers for kerfer! Three cheers for Arnold!

Idiot.

Byakhee.

[cbish]

Here's a few from California:

Berkeley: It's illegal for cats to be carnivorous.

Chico: It's illegal to detonate a nuclear device.:D

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by LFTKBS


Yay! Now illegal immigrants will still drive, but there's no way for them to get auto insurance! Hooray! I sure hope I get hit by an uninsured driver and there's no way to cover my repair costs or medical bills! Won't that make California the bestest state in the whole nation?! As an added bonus, your insurance rates go up! Yes, that is so good! What a wonderful idea that is, and you, kerfer, are so smart because you have clearly thought about this issue long and hard! And my gosh, now that they can't get licenses, all the illegal immigrants will just disappear! It's like magic! This infestation of brown people will cease immediately! Three cheers for kerfer! Three cheers for Arnold!

Idiot.

Ok let's play a little pretend game.

Pretend that I am an illegal immigrant from Mexico. I drive an old car in poor condition, live in a small crappy apartment in East Los Angeles. The little money I do make working for below minimum game I spend on my family here and send to the family in Mexico. Now, what is my incentive to pay $1000+ a year for auto insurance?

[Luciana]

Originally posted by Grammatron
I meant that a hospital should be forced to send it. Unless a person dies at home and they secretly bury him, I don't know how often that happens.

Is it how it's done in your country? Here, it's issued a death certificate, without which you can't bury the person in a cemetary. But you *must* bury people in official cemetaries, anything else being illegal. It's akin to hiding the corpse. Once the death certificate is issued, the next of kin, of the State (if the person is not identified) must notify the Retirement Agency, banks, our local IRS, etc. It's so burocratic, it amounts to another government absurdity! But receiving money in someone else's name is illegal, no doubt, and will land you in jail.

It's entirely justifiable to make sure that no one is perpetrating fraud. Apparently, there were quite a number of people with 120+ years of age. :rolleyes: This is the result of corruption in past decades. But giving a deadline to 90-year-olds and make them pay a visit to an overcrowded bank agency is not the best way to do it.

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by Luciana Nery


Is it how it's done in your country? Here, it's issued a death certificate, without which you can't bury the person in a cemetary. But you *must* bury people in official cemetaries, anything else being illegal. It's akin to hiding the corpse. Once the death certificate is issued, the next of kin, of the State (if the person is not identified) must notify the Retirement Agency, banks, our local IRS, etc. It's so burocratic, it amounts to another government absurdity! But receiving money in someone else's name is illegal, no doubt, and will land you in jail.

It's entirely justifiable to make sure that no one is perpetrating fraud. Apparently, there were quite a number of people with 120+ years of age. :rolleyes: This is the result of corruption in past decades. But giving a deadline to 90-year-olds and make them pay a visit to an overcrowded bank agency is not the best way to do it.

I have no clue how they do it in my country.

But I think the best way to do it is to check everyone at 90+ by going to their home, there can't be that many people at that age considering your country’s average life expectancy rate.

[Luciana]

Originally posted by Grammatron

But I think the best way to do it is to check everyone at 90+ by going to their home, there can't be that many people at that age considering your country’s average life expectancy rate.

The average life expectancy rate is 71, according to the latest census. You're right, there can't be that many 90 year olds out there.

[LFTKBS]

Originally posted by Grammatron


Ok let's play a little pretend game.

Pretend that I am an illegal immigrant from Mexico. I drive an old car in poor condition, live in a small crappy apartment in East Los Angeles. The little money I do make working for below minimum game I spend on my family here and send to the family in Mexico. Now, what is my incentive to pay $1000+ a year for auto insurance?

I don't know, but that's the way it's working in Utah. (http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,505037810,00.html)

"The percentage of uninsured motorists . . . has dropped as more Mexican immigrants have obtained drivers' licenses: In 1998, about 20 percent of drivers in Utah had no insurance; now that proportion is less than 4 percent."

I just got off the phone with the Utah Department of Public Safety; I will post information on those statistics on my site as soon as they become available.

Until then, why don't you help yourself to a nice glass of STFU and research public issues before making up your mind?

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by LFTKBS


I don't know, but that's the way it's working in Utah. (http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,505037810,00.html)

"The percentage of uninsured motorists . . . has dropped as more Mexican immigrants have obtained drivers' licenses: In 1998, about 20 percent of drivers in Utah had no insurance; now that proportion is less than 4 percent."

I just got off the phone with the Utah Department of Public Safety; I will post information on those statistics on my site as soon as they become available.

Until then, why don't you help yourself to a nice glass of STFU and research public issues before making up your mind?

Before I do that, perhaps you can show me proof that those new insured are in fact illegal immigrants.

[LFTKBS]

Originally posted by Grammatron


Before I do that, perhaps you can show me proof that those new insured are in fact illegal immigrants.

Allow me to quote myself: "I will post information on those statistics on my site as soon as they become available."

I apologize for not teleporting to Utah, getting those records, and then teleporting to your house. You'll get it on Monday. Have a pleasant weekend.

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by LFTKBS


Allow me to quote myself: "I will post information on those statistics on my site as soon as they become available."

I apologize for not teleporting to Utah, getting those records, and then teleporting to your house. You'll get it on Monday. Have a pleasant weekend.

Well since we are quoting you, allow me to do the same in response: "Until then, why don't you help yourself to a nice glass of STFU and research public issues before making up your mind? "

You have a pleasant weekend as well.

[kerfer]

Originally posted by Thanz

Well, if you can find and indetify the illegal aliens, shouldn't you be deporting them rather than giving them drivers licenses? At the very least you should be requiring them to go through the normal immigration process.

Exactly.

"I am totally with Thanz on this one." ;)

[kerfer]

Originally posted by LFTKBS


Yay! Now illegal immigrants will still drive, but there's no way for them to get auto insurance! Hooray! I sure hope I get hit by an uninsured driver and there's no way to cover my repair costs or medical bills! Won't that make California the bestest state in the whole nation?! As an added bonus, your insurance rates go up! Yes, that is so good! What a wonderful idea that is, and you, kerfer, are so smart because you have clearly thought about this issue long and hard! And my gosh, now that they can't get licenses, all the illegal immigrants will just disappear! It's like magic! This infestation of brown people will cease immediately! Three cheers for kerfer! Three cheers for Arnold!

Idiot.

:dl: :lol2:

Who peed in your Froot Loops, Sparky?

Nice rant. It had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with anything I said, or any position I hold, but it was a nice incoherent rambling rant nonetheless.

If it was coherent, it'd be a strawman at best, but not really, because you didn't even misrepresent my position! You tried to give me one, and then misrepresented that!

Nice little belittling tone throughout to make you sound oh-so-smart and condescending, a feeble attempt to call me a rascist, with a little ad hominem on the end.

Wow. :wow2:

Try sobering up, coming down, taking your meds, calming down, or whatever it is you need to do to get over this little emotional problem that makes you act like a jerk. Then perhaps, rethink your argument. Then, after you apologize for your behavior, we can discuss it civilly, like adults. At least I can.

Until then, you're just having a tantrum.

[BTox]

Originally posted by Grammatron

"Until then, why don't you help yourself to a nice glass of STFU and research public issues before making up your mind? "


"nice glass of STFU" sounds appetizing :D

[LFTKBS]

Originally posted by kerfer


(animated gif) (animated gif)

Who peed in your Froot Loops, Sparky?

Nice rant. It had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with anything I said, or any position I hold, but it was a nice incoherent rambling rant nonetheless.

Whereas your well-reasoned argument against the issue is "On what planet is that a good idea?" I pointed out why it was a good idea. Can't get auto insurance without a license, after all.

If it was coherent, it'd be a strawman at best, but not really, because you didn't even misrepresent my position! You tried to give me one, and then misrepresented that!

Okay, great: state a position other than "On what planet is that a good idea?"

Nice little belittling tone throughout to make you sound oh-so-smart and condescending, a feeble attempt to call me a rascist, with a little ad hominem on the end.

I have no idea what you're talking about with respect to the ad hominem. I didn't say "We can determine that Kerfer is wrong because he's an idiot." I said, "Kerfer is wrong, and in addition to being wrong, he is also an idiot." Big difference. In fact, I believe I called for cheers for you. And if I sound oh-so-smart, it's true: that is no one's fault but my own.

Maybe you're a racist, maybe you're not. I don't know. Are you?

Wow. (animated gif)

Try sobering up, coming down, taking your meds, calming down, or whatever it is you need to do to get over this little emotional problem that makes you act like a jerk. Then perhaps, rethink your argument.

You typed out a pretty lengthy post regarding your disdain for my tone, which is all fine and good, your royal highness, but you haven't actually mentioned how this will lead to the collapse of American democracy other than that you "are totally with Thanz on this one."

Then, after you apologize for your behavior, we can discuss it civilly, like adults. At least I can.

You're in for a wait, then. I was condescending for a reason. Domestic policy regarding the governance of illegal immigrants isn't as simple as "catch them and throw them out." Illegal immigrants aren't here to undermine the nation, suck up its public funds, and rape its women. They're here to work. They work longer hours than you do for less pay than you get. I'm not really pleased with that state of affairs, but you, on the other hand, would like to take away what few opportunities they have. Why, kerfer?

Further, your use of the ridiculous term "governator" opens you up to public critique. I mean, Jesus, how many times was that lame-ass neologism bandied about by hack headline writers? A billion? Way to stay fresh there, Leno.

Until then, you're just having a tantrum.

Nice try, Bojambo. Let me point out for the last time that your arguments for the reversal are, in reverse order of frequency: a) sheer incredulity, b) whatever Thanz says, and c) animated gifs. Maybe we could get you on Hardball, and instead of discussing current events, you just have some posterboard with "WOW" written on it, which you would hold up to the camera when someone disagreed with you. Then, in a spectacular Triumph of the Wit, you could move your little sign close to the camera, then away, indicating that it is truly a kerfer "WOW" moment.

[jj]

Originally posted by Grammatron


I have no clue how they do it in my country.

But I think the best way to do it is to check everyone at 90+ by going to their home, there can't be that many people at that age considering your country’s average life expectancy rate.

Heck, even send a nurse with a blood pressure meter and a glucose test kit and give them free medical tests at the same time if they want!

But don't tell them to stand in line in the heat! (wince)

[kerfer]

Originally posted by LFTKBS


If you'd like to be civil, and engage in a rational discussion, you know what it takes. Until then, I quite simply have better things to do.

If you'd rather remain an arrogant jerk, you may consider that you have won this argument, quite simply because I refuse to further argue with a fool. There may have been something worth listening to in your point of view, but you lost it in your tone, your attitude, your condescending essence, your stage presence as the jackass du jour. Sorry. I tried, but it's obvious that you are not interested in a discussion.

Long ago, I learned to never argue with fool. Someone may walk in in the middle, and not discern who is who.

Therefore, I disengage.

I give you the argument...Not because you are right..quite to the contrary, but because you aren't worth my time, and you apparently have nothing of worth to contribute. It's obvious that the only thing you are interested in here is winning...that's fairly obvious by your arrogant, belligerent, condescending tone. You are not interested in discussion...an exchange of ideas...learning from one another. You just want to win.

Whatever floats your boat.

So chalk one up, LFTKBS..you win. You are wrong, but I concede, because this battle isn't worth fighting from my POV. You have created a caricature of what I said, and attacked that, without ever entering into a discussion. You seem here to be an extremely dishonest person. I'm not about to get into an exchange of you continuing to accuse me of things I didn't say, and then make me defend a position I never took. Sorry. I'm not going to play that game. Nice try, though.

You simply aren't worth my time.

You win.

Or you can apologize, and we can have a discussion. But I refuse to continue this this way.

I'm bigger than that. You be too. Okay?

[BobK]

Taken from LFTKBS's link.

snip... "If illegal immigrants don't have licenses, they can't get insurance and they can't register a vehicle. If you have someone out driving a car, would you prefer that they be licensed?" asked Judy Hamaker-Mann, director of Utah's Driver License Division.

Here she is talking about illegal immigrants.
I would think that a legal immigrant, who has a chauffeur would be able to get insurance and register a vehicle without having a license.

"The reality is: If we don't license people, they're not going to go away," she said. "They're going to drive cars. If we allow them to be licensed, we can give them a road test, a written test and an eye test. And we develop quite a bit of a database, intelligencewise, about them."

What's the purpose of the database if it's not used to help prevent illegal activity? Turn illegals in to the immigration service. Sounds to me like otherwise the MV dept. is aiding and abetting in the commision of a crime.

As more Mexican immigrants move into Utah, joining family members and finding jobs that motivate them to stay, it makes sense to keep track of them, Hamaker-Mann said. The percentage of uninsured motorists, she added, has dropped as more Mexican immigrants have obtained drivers' licenses: In 1998, about 20 percent of drivers in Utah had no insurance; now that proportion is less than 4 percent.

Here the 1st sentence expands the category to all immigrants and the 2nd sentence expands it further to all drivers in Utah. Evidently she's trying to leave the impression that this reduction is solely related to illegals getting licenses.
I'm from the other side of the country and know nothing of Utah's population, but if 16% of Utah's drivers are illegal aliens, I'll eat my hat.
snip...

[tedly]

Originally posted by Tmy
I think its funny how some states the law says you have to wear a seat belt, but you dont have to wear a hemet if riding a motorcycle. And the states own schoolbuses do not have and are not required to have seatbelts.

Here we have to wear seat belts, and bikers have to wear helmets. I think, given socialized medicine (roll on you socialist hordes) that seat belt legislation is justified. Seat belts turn crippling accidents into survivable walk-aways, and reduce our health care bills. Helmets, on the other hand take corpses and turn them into vegetables, increasing our cost. So I think we are justified in requiring drivers to wear seat belts, and unjustified in making bikers wear helmets.

Just to bring it up to my six cents worth, school buses are one of the safest means of transport, and the design of the seats with separate compartments ( high seat backs and front divider walls) give similar protection to seat belts in the event of a crash. The bus on the tracks is a joke, drivers here are required to stop 4-10m clear at uncontrolled tracks, engage first gear and not shift until clear of the tracks. Stalling is highly unlikely. Fire in the bus is a far more likely reason to require quick evacuation and wandering through a 72 passenger bus to get all the kiddies out is the stuff of nightmares.

edited to fix spalling

[kerfer]

Originally posted by tedly


Here we have to wear seat belts, and bikers have to wear helmets. I think, given socialized medicine (roll on you socialist hordes) that seat belt legislation is justified. Seat belts turn crippling accidents into survivable walk-aways, and reduce our health care bills. Helmets, on the other hand take corpses and turn them into vegetables, increasing our cost. So I think we are justified in requiring drivers to wear seat belts, and unjustified in making bikers wear helmets.

This is interesting, and timely. This is one of the places in my life where the medical socialists have seemed to make a dent in my thinking. hock-pituiee.

I was having just this discussion the other day with a co-worker who knows far more about the biker mentality than do I (For what it's worth, my stance here is that I'm not a rider, and I don't like motorcycles--in the sense that I don't personnally like riding them...they scare the crap out of me...can you say "everyone in the world is trying to kill me"? That being the case, I give as much leeway as I can to motorcycles (when I see them--sheesh, it's scary how often I can't), and I try to communicate with them when I can that I do indeed see them, acknowledge their presence, and right to be on the segment of road that they occupy, and I'm actively trying not to kill them...they seem to appreciate that), and he gave me his arguement on helmet laws (he wears one by choice, always). I was a big proponent of them, thinking that somehow they were protecting the greater good of society, but the way that they are implemented here, according to him, it's just silly.

The thing that he claimed, that I found interesting, is that the way that helmet laws are written, here in the People's Republic of California, is that they are completely unenforceable. According to him, as long as the helmet has a sticker that says that it complies with this, that, and the other thing, it conforms to the law, regardless of whether it actually conforms to this, that or the other thing. According to him, (if you are a biker of the proper mentality) you can go to the swap meet and buy any old helmet that is of the least offending design, and purchase said helmet, onnaccounta the law says that you have to wear a compliant helmet. Upon purchase of said helmet, according to my source, one of the questions asked is " You want a sticker for that?" You say "yes", affix said sticker, and you are good to go. Regardless of the actual safety parameters of said helmet.

I may not be presenting his argument exactly correctly, but the gist is right.

He also corroborated that at a surprisingly low speed (15 mph or so), the difference in survivability in a motorcycle accident with a helmet versus without one is pretty much nil. It pretty much only determines the angular attitude of the lid of the subject's casket.

Given that he knows orders of magnitude more than I do about this segment of law, and the fact that I think he's an honorable person, and is telling me his version of the facts in an arena in which he knows far more than do I, my thinking on helmet laws is changing.


edited to fix spalling

You said that on purpose, right? Thanks for the chuckle. ;)

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by LFTKBS


Allow me to quote myself: "I will post information on those statistics on my site as soon as they become available."

I apologize for not teleporting to Utah, getting those records, and then teleporting to your house. You'll get it on Monday. Have a pleasant weekend.

So how goes that research so far?

[LFTKBS]

Originally posted by Grammatron


So how goes that research so far?

Marginally well. I've gone from DPS to the MVD to (now) the contractor who runs the Insured Driver Database for Utah - a company called something like "Insurite"; I'm not sure on the spelling. I'll post here when I get the good stuff.

Edited for shelling.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by LFTKBS


I don't know, but that's the way it's working in Utah. (http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,505037810,00.html)

"The percentage of uninsured motorists . . . has dropped as more Mexican immigrants have obtained drivers' licenses: In 1998, about 20 percent of drivers in Utah had no insurance; now that proportion is less than 4 percent."

I just got off the phone with the Utah Department of Public Safety; I will post information on those statistics on my site as soon as they become available.

Until then, why don't you help yourself to a nice glass of STFU and research public issues before making up your mind?

You aren't seriously comparing the illegal immigration problem in Utah with the one in California, are you? Two illegal aliens get insurance and the uninsured rate among illegal aliens drops by 20% in Utah? In California, we are talking about over 2 million illegal aliens whereas Utah has around 15,000.

Besides that, it is not an issue of uninsured motorists; it is an issue of national security. Let's see now, we were attacked on 9/11, hey I have an idea, let's make it easier for illegal aliens to get driver's licenses! This is something that should be a Federal mandate, not local. You're not a citizen; you don't get a driver's license. What's so difficult to understand about that?

Or are the licenses only issued to Mexican illegal aliens? I think not.

What's Wrong With Illegal Immigration? (http://www.fairus.org/ImmigrationIssueCenters/ImmigrationIssueCenters.cfm?ID=1181&c=13)

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Ed
And the Brit legislators moved the damn Tower Armouries to ***** LEEDS.

Let it go, man... The Brits do have trains, even roads, where you can drive to ***** LEEDS. On the wrong side of the road, of course, but hey....do you want to see the Tower Armouries or not?

Originally posted by Ed
Also, did I mention that the Tower Armouries were moved to ***** LEEDS? Thought not.:D

No. I don't think you did. What was that about the Tower Armouries again? :)

Originally posted by Luciana Nery
You know, sometimes an elderly person dies and the family doesn't notify the authorities, therefore keeping the retirement's salary for years at end. That's fraud and it must be stopped. The government decided that the actual number of people over 90 should be measured, therefore...

May I point to a general identification program for all citizens? We got one in Denmark, in fact, it's the very foundation of our welfare system. The "Central Person Registration" system ensures that we know who people are. We know who are entitled to social benefits. We know who has to pay taxes!!!

And we do know who has died. People who die at hospitals are registered the second they enter the door. People who die at home are registered by the doctor who oversees them.

Sure, there are slipups, but the benefits of having a centralized system for registration of people are immense. Although fraud can never be eliminated completely, it sure helps to have this kind of system.

Think about it... :)

Originally posted by Luciana Nery
The average life expectancy rate is 71, according to the latest census. You're right, there can't be that many 90 year olds out there.

The number is rising, though. Your chance of reaching 1-0-0 is pretty good, you know...

Me? Nah, debauchery will get me long before that. According to Steve, I am a member of "a coven of sadistic old degenerates"... BUWAHAHAAAAA!!

[LFTKBS]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal


You aren't seriously comparing the illegal immigration problem in Utah with the one in California, are you? - snip -

What's Wrong With Illegal Immigration? (http://www.fairus.org/ImmigrationIssueCenters/ImmigrationIssueCenters.cfm?ID=1181&c=13)

No, I'm not, nor do I think that issuing driver's licenses to illegal immigrants will make the U.S. a utopia of hand-holding, love, and trust. But neither do I think that it's the Worst. Thing. Ever. In part because it wasn't Mexicans who hijacked those planes in 2001, and in part because I have not met an unkind Mexican illegal.

By some bizarre coincidence, I've been the neighbor of illegals twice in the last three places I've lived, and they were the hardest-working mf'ers I've ever met. Up at 5:00. Ride their bikes to a gathering spot, or to their illegally obtained jobs. Work twelve-hour shifts. Come home, maybe have a couple of Bud Lights while listening to 100.3, go to bed, and start all over again.

And don't get me going on this whole "illegals go to the emergency room for everything, because they don't have to pay" nonsense. They pay cash. I know because my old roommate - a fluent speaker of Spanish - had to drive one of them to a clinic when he had a problem with his, uh, testicles. They rest of them did the same.

Finally, there's an enforcement problem - shall we have federal agents proweling the streets, asking everyone for their papers? Why would I be less likely to be here illegally than someone darker-skinned? Maybe I'm from New Zealand. Are Mexican immigrants worse than other types?

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by LFTKBS


Marginally well. I've gone from DPS to the MVD to (now) the contractor who runs the Insured Driver Database for Utah - a company called something like "Insurite"; I'm not sure on the spelling. I'll post here when I get the good stuff.

Edited for shelling.

Just bumping it up to see how your search is going.