What exactly is so hard about admitting AQ carried out 9/11?

[Allen773]

I'm serious, why is it so hard for Troofers to admit and accept the reality of what happened that day? Any theories?

[Ron_Tomkins]

Who's AQ? Sounds like a Secret Agent code name

[Unsecured Coins]

because then they wouldn't have a machine to rage against, duh...

[Allen773]

Who's AQ? Sounds like a Secret Agent code name

AQ=Al Qaeda.

[Allen773]

because then they wouldn't have a machine to rage against, duh...

There are plenty of more legitimate reasons to "rage against the machine."

Why 9/11?

[nicepants]

There are plenty of more legitimate reasons to "rage against the machine."

Why 9/11?

The legitimate reasons aren't so sensational and easy to make into videos to sell.

[orphia nay]

What exactly is so hard about admitting AQ carried out 9/11?

Because the reality doesn't make you feel special.

[DavidJames]

There are plenty of more legitimate reasons to "rage against the machine."

Why 9/11?Legitimate has nothing to do with it. In fact, legitimate is exactly what they don't want. They want to think they are different and legitimate reeks of establishment. For many, it's an exercise in ego and self indulgence. Many, but not all. You still have the charlatans and mentally ill.

[Macgyver1968]

The simple answer is this.

We have all felt that eerily unconformable feeling that someone is following us or someone is watching us. This is a left over defense mechanism from when we weren't always an apex predator. Being able to detect an unseen silent predator was conducive to living back then.

In Paranoid Schizophrenia, the part of the brain that is responsible for detecting these unseen silent predators is falsely stimulated. Since there is no data from the senses coming in...the brain is left , with no data from the senses to work on, to interpret this "unseen silent predator on it's own. And with no data ..it gets it wrong.

All paranoid delusions center around someone being "out to get" the subject. These delusions manafest themselfs in many forms. The NWO..Aliens. the NSA or the Governent in General...The Illuminati...all are the mind's deductions on what the unseen threat is.

Paranoids will see only what confirms their minds delusions and disregard everything else. This is why CT'ers of any kind are so confirmed in their beliefs...it confirms the "silent unseen predator alerts" they are experiencing in their brain.

Edit: All of the above is my own personal opinion, and may or may not be subject to the facts.

[MikeW]

Because a) al Qaeda doesn't exist, and b) bin Laden is a CIA asset, and c) bin Laden denied the attacks anyway (those two don't sit well together, but never mind), and d) the only video where al Qaeda accept responsibility (apart from the others that truthers don't talk about) is a fake, and... stuff like that, I guess.

But we shouldn't forget the LIHOPpers, who'll tell us that this is a straw man and al Qaeda may have been involved, but they were funded by the ISI and Saudis and so, umm > insert evidence-free reasoning here < which means it was an inside job.

[bill smith]

There are good reasons for doubting the existance of Al-Quaeda as it is portrayed by the Americans and British

"The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US ..." -- Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook

(Note: Robin Cook died suddenly soon after making this statement whatever you want to make of that)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTTgpsAs4_c&amp;feature=related BBC Clip

[MikeW]

Oh look, more fictions from Bill:

There are good reasons for doubting the existance of Al-Quaeda as it is portrayed by the Americans and British

"The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US ..." -- Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook

(Note: Robin Cook died suddenly soon after making this statement whatever you want to make of that)
I'll make nothing at all, because he never said it. Once again you spread lies.

[bill smith]

Oh look, more fictions from Bill:


I'll make nothing at all, because he never said it. Once again you spread lies.

http://www.google.nl/search?hl=en&q=The+truth+is%2C+there+is+no+Islamic+army+or+terr orist+group+called+Al+Qaida.&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

[Minadin]

It's mostly truther sites, pakistani news, and none of it's directly sourced whatsoever. One of the articles in that search lists the quote as 2008 and the gentleman to which it's attributed died in 2005.

Maybe you should re-post it in General Skepticism and the Paranormal sub-forum.

[MikeW]

http://www.google.nl/search?hl=en&q=The+truth+is%2C+there+is+no+Islamic+army+or+terr orist+group+called+Al+Qaida.&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=
Let's take the first link.

The only part mentioning Cook is this:

Shortly before his untimely death, former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook told the House of Commons that "Al Qaeda" is not really a terrorist group but a database of international mujaheddin and arms smugglers used by the CIA and Saudis to funnel guerrillas, arms, and money into Soviet-occupied Afghanistan.
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3836

By way of support it refers to an article that says this:

Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development

He's wrong about the name - al Qaida does not literally mean "the database" - but in any event, he does NOT say that "Al Qaeda" is not really a terrorist group but a database of international mujaheddin and arms smugglers used by the CIA and Saudis to funnel guerrillas, arms, and money into Soviet-occupied Afghanistan." The people who wrote the article must know this - how can they source to a document if they've never read it? - therefore the only conclusion is that they are lying.

Back the original claim, the article continues like this (from the first link):

Courtesy of World Affairs, a journal based in New Delhi, WMR can bring you an important excerpt from an Apr.-Jun. 2004 article by Pierre-Henry Bunel, a former agent for French military intelligence.

And Bunel is the person who provided the following quote:

"The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the 'TV watcher' to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US and the lobbyists for the US war on terrorism are only interested in making money."

So, as I pointed out, Cook never said this. There's nothing in the article to say that he did. Therefore it's not reasonable to believe that those who say otherwise are "mistaken": the most likely explanation is they're lying, attributing the quote to Cook because he has more credibility than Bunel, even though they know he didn't say it.

[bill smith]

Let's take the first link.

The only part mentioning Cook is this:



By way of support it refers to an article that says this:



He's wrong about the name - al Qaida does not literally mean "the database" - but in any event, he does NOT say that "Al Qaeda" is not really a terrorist group but a database of international mujaheddin and arms smugglers used by the CIA and Saudis to funnel guerrillas, arms, and money into Soviet-occupied Afghanistan." The people who wrote the article must know this - how can they source to a document if they've never read it? - therefore the only conclusion is that they are lying.

Back the original claim, the article continues like this (from the first link):



And Bunel is the person who provided the following quote:



So, as I pointed out, Cook never said this. There's nothing in the article to say that he did. Therefore it's not reasonable to believe that those who say otherwise are "mistaken": the most likely explanation is they're lying, attributing the quote to Cook because he has more credibility than Bunel, even though they know he didn't say it.

This is part of the immutable historical record Mike. You can delete it in your mind and even try to delete it in the minds of others if you want but it will never stand. It is too widely known..

[dtugg]

This is part of the immutable historical record Mike. You can delete it in your mind and even try to delete it in the minds of others if you want but it will never stand. It is too widely known..

You really should seek help if you are actually like this in real life.

[MikeW]

This is part of the immutable historical record Mike. You can delete it in your mind and even try to delete it in the minds of others if you want but it will never stand. It is too widely known..
Can't defend your lies so you simply pretend that the counter evidence doesn't exist? Good plan. Perhaps you'll get lucky and people won't realise you're a fraud.

Meanwhile, as you've just reminded me why talking to you is an utter waste of time, I think I'll go do something more useful instead.

[funk de fino]

And that is a smackdown of huge proportions.

I think Bill secretly likes it.

[bill smith]

Can't defend your lies so you simply pretend that the counter evidence doesn't exist? Good plan. Perhaps you'll get lucky and people won't realise you're a fraud.

Meanwhile, as you've just reminded me why talking to you is an utter waste of time, I think I'll go do something more useful instead.

I don't know if you noticed in some of the events lately (Richard Gage on that FOX show and Obama in his speech in Egypt mentioning 9/11 conspiracy theories) that there was the commonality of potential acceptance of 9/11 having an 'inside job' dimension . However both events underlined that Al-Quaeda is not up for debate.

So I think they may sacrifice a bishop or perhaps a rook to satisfy the conspiracy theorists in the not too distant future. As long as there is no further debate about Al-Quaeda. Too much foreign policy depends on it.

[BigAl]

I don't know if you noticed in some of the events lately (Richard Gage on that FOX show and Obama in his speech in Egypt mentioning 9/11 conspiracy theories) that there was the commonality of potential acceptance of 9/11 having an 'inside job' dimension . However both events underlined that Al-Quaeda is not up for debate.


That's not what Obama said.

[bill smith]

That's not what Obama said.When the President mentioned 9/11 conspiracy theories he put them firmly on the table.

[240-185]

I think there are two reasons.

Racism towards arab people; "these oriental cavemen couldn't have driven such a clever attack".

and... antiracist people: "nowadays, arabs are systematically blamed for everything. That's unfair! We *have* to find the real perpetrators, who can't be these guys manipulated by the Occident."

My two cents.

[triforcharity]

Wait, so he died right after making a speach??? Did I get that right bill???

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/07/obituaries/07cook.html?_r=1

"She repaid the favor in a subsequent memoir and other writings chronicling the breakdown of the marriage. Mr. Cook subsequently married his lover, Gaynor Regan. She was with him on Saturday when he collapsed near the 2,365-foot summit of Ben Stack in Sutherland, Scotland, on Saturday"

So, he made the speach at the top of a mountain??? Im confused.......

[doobiedoright]

When the President mentioned 9/11 conspiracy theories he put them firmly on the table.

No....He very clearly smacked them onto the floor and stomped on them!

[bill smith]

No....He very clearly smacked them onto the floor and stomped on them!

No...he put them squarely on the table and what's more he KNEW that he was doing that.

[BigAl]

No...he put them squarely on the table and what's more he KNEW that he was doing that.

If that's what you want to call having your beliefs and assertions called stupid, that's your problem.

[sleahead]

This is part of the immutable historical record Mike.

Yes, another troofer lie enters into the historical record.

You can delete it in your mind and even try to delete it in the minds of others if you want but it will never stand.

Delete it? No way. Troofer lies need to be exposed.

It is too widely known..

I wouldn't say that, but thanks to Mike this particular troofer lie is more widely known now.

[psikeyhackr]

You must explain how 2 normal airliners weighing less than 200 tons each could destroy 2 skyscrapers weighing more than 400,000 tons each in less than 2 hours. Who or what flew the planes is totally irrelevant.

But apparently some people expect other people to accept that AQ did it without even being told the quantity of steel in the impact zones.

Shut up and believe what you are told no matter how stupid it is.

YEAH RIGHT!

Of course the people that believe in the OCT consider themselves to be smart and would have to get over a pretty big emotional hump to change their minds after SEVEN YEARS. Who cares how much steel and concrete was where? The laws of physics are irrelevant.

psik

Please re-read the OPs in the threads you are participating in, and ensure your posts are on-topic.

[TruthersLie]

oh psi...
I love that STUPID analogy.

how can a bullet weighing less than 4 ounces KILL a human weighing 200 lbs? Piss poor analogy.

100 tons moving 500+mph would do a MASSIVE amount of damage. Fires would then finish it off. Why is that sooooo hard to understand?

Let me shoot you in the chest, and then bleed for an hour. I'd love to see if you were to survive it.

So twoof, again and again. The common narrative is EXTREMELY well understood, there are literal tons of evidence which show the who, what, when, how and even the why of the event.

Now if you twoofs could provide a complete narrative that wasn't just "da guvmint did it" Or "it was all about the money" or "dem damn jews did it."

Your level of PROOF is using vanity journals to publish junk science, data mined quotes (which when examined do not support your position), and out right lies (I can think of over 50 in 5 minutes... of of them put out there by twoofs... why is it you don't police your own movement? it really is amazing that you want "the TRUTH" but you don't call out the LIARS in your own movement....)

[dtugg]

You must explain how 2 normal airliners weighing less than 200 tons each could destroy 2 skyscrapers weighing more than 400,000 tons each in less than 2 hours. Who or what flew the planes is totally irrelevant.

But apparently some people expect other people to accept that AQ did it without even being told the quantity of steel in the impact zones.

Shut up and believe what you are told no matter how stupid it is.

YEAH RIGHT!

Of course the people that believe in the OCT consider themselves to be smart and would have to get over a pretty big emotional hump to change their minds after SEVEN YEARS. Who cares how much steel and concrete was where? The laws of physics are irrelevant.

psik

http://uk.techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/broken_record.jpg

[BigAl]

You must explain how 2 normal airliners weighing less than 200 tons each could destroy 2 skyscrapers weighing more than 400,000 tons each in less than 2 hours. Who or what flew the planes is totally irrelevant.

But apparently some people expect other people to accept that AQ did it without even being told the quantity of steel in the impact zones.

Shut up and believe what you are told no matter how stupid it is.

YEAH RIGHT!

Of course the people that believe in the OCT consider themselves to be smart and would have to get over a pretty big emotional hump to change their minds after SEVEN YEARS. Who cares how much steel and concrete was where? The laws of physics are irrelevant.

psik
Troll much?

[BigAl]

You must explain how 2 normal airliners weighing less than 200 tons each could destroy 2 skyscrapers weighing more than 400,000 tons each in less than 2 hours. Who or what flew the planes is totally irrelevant.


Sez you.

Sez one of the designer's partners:

Recently, Henry Guthard, 70, one of Yamasaki's original partners who also worked as the project manager at the [WTC] site, said, "To hit the building, to disappear, to have pieces come out the other side, it was amazing the building stood. To defend against 5,000 (sic) gallons of ignited fuel in a building of 1350 feet is just not possible.
http://snurl.com/j54gc (Bottom of page 188)

[Minadin]

I don't know if you noticed in some of the events lately (Richard Gage on that FOX show and Obama in his speech in Egypt mentioning 9/11 conspiracy theories) that there was the commonality of potential acceptance of 9/11 having an 'inside job' dimension . However both events underlined that Al-Quaeda is not up for debate.

So I think they may sacrifice a bishop or perhaps a rook to satisfy the conspiracy theorists in the not too distant future. As long as there is no further debate about Al-Quaeda. Too much foreign policy depends on it.

When the President mentioned 9/11 conspiracy theories he put them firmly on the table.

No...he put them squarely on the table and what's more he KNEW that he was doing that.

Here's a transcript of what he actually said, directly sourced:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-at-Cairo-University-6-04-09/

I'm aware that there's still some who would question or even justify the events of 9/11. But let us be clear: Al Qaeda killed nearly 3,000 people on that day. The victims were innocent men, women and children from America and many other nations who had done nothing to harm anybody. And yet al Qaeda chose to ruthlessly murder these people, claimed credit for the attack, and even now states their determination to kill on a massive scale. They have affiliates in many countries and are trying to expand their reach. These are not opinions to be debated; these are facts to be dealt with.

1. He doesn't specifically mention any 9/11 conspiracy theories. In fact, you won't see the word conspiracy in his remarks whatsoever.
2. He still manages to make it fairly clear that the standardly accepted narrative is factually based, to the point of not being debateable.
3. Long story made short, he thinks a) that conspiract theorists are wrong and b) that 'alternative' theories prominent in arab / muslim communities are detrimental to our foreign interests.

[The Platypus]

Bill opened his mouth and inserted his foot.... again...

[beachnut]

Kill pilots fly planes into buildings

The plot is too complex for the CD thermite brain-rot group to handle. They are not as smart as 19 terrorists who used a plot so simple it could not fail due to surprise. A plot too simple for truthers to grasp; gee they can't take the time to understand structural engineering and physics to see their ideas are moronic lies and delusions.

However the dolt terrorists on Flight 93 were late and the Passengers on Flight 93 figured out the complex plot in minutes (these people were not truthers else they would be blaming thermite and not attacking the terrorists).

So we have a matter of brain power. Flight 93 passengers have brain power; 911 truthers lack brain power to figure out a simple plot.

[beachnut]

...
"The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US ..." -- Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook

(Note: Robin Cook died suddenly soon after making this statement whatever you want to make of that)

BBC Clip You found this quote where? Your source? What does this mean? It means 19 terrorists did 911 and you can't only do second hand quote mining, and cherry picking to support your delusion habit. You are not being skeptical as you post junk and imply Cook was killed for making a political statement which is minor compared to his outstanding career based on much more than you will ever achieve if you continue posting lies and crap about 911 which show you support moronic delusions on 911. Cook never said this.


But former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook told The Times of London: "There were no international terrorists in Iraq until we went in. It was we who gave the perfect conditions in which al Qaeda could thrive."

So Cook did not make that idiotic statement! So I can't suspect Cook died of terminal stupidity. But the truth is Cook suddenly suffered a severe heart attack and later died. Not as exciting as making up moronic lies like you do and post dirt dumb innuendo. You make up lies to feel important and you look ignorant on 911.

911 truthers have a delusion based on ignorance and when they gain knowledge and use sound judgment they will be cured and able to function in the real world.

[Brainster]

Holocaust Denial is mostly not about the Holocaust; it's about Israel.

9-11 Denial is mostly not about 9-11, it's about Iraq and Afghanistan and the Patriot Act.

[Regnad Kcin]

Hey, everybody knows conspiracy theorists get all the hot chicks! What more reason is there?

[twinstead]

Hey, everybody knows conspiracy theorists get all the hot chicks! What more reason is there?

Oh yea. Gigidy gigidy

[Comsat Angel]

Props to Mike W and Minadin - I now have another Twoofer idiot to add to the Ignore list. Thanks guys!

[Pardalis]

I'm serious, why is it so hard for Troofers to admit and accept the reality of what happened that day? Any theories?

Because AQ is fighting against America, and anyone who fights against America are the good guys according to conspiracy theorists.

Even savage murderers who think "freedom" is a bad word.

[parky76]

There are good reasons for doubting the existance of Al-Quaeda as it is portrayed by the Americans and British

"The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US ..." -- Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook

this is a lie. Cook never said this. see his article in the Guardian here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development

[parky76]

This is part of the immutable historical record Mike. You can delete it in your mind and even try to delete it in the minds of others if you want but it will never stand. It is too widely known..

lying should be against JREF terms and conditions

[BigAl]

This is part of the immutable historical record Mike. You can delete it in your mind and even try to delete it in the minds of others if you want but it will never stand. It is too widely known..

Cook never said this

[Juniversal]

In my eyes the 9/11 truth movement is very much a cult and this is made clear to me when truthers blatantly disregard or ignore pertinent information that conflicts with there conspiracy theory or push long debunked falsehoods. Being part of a "movement" and following the leader no matter what is the essence of being a member of a cult.

vxC5_q50al8

In this video Mark (gravy) talks about how truthers will incessently put up false information in there attempts to campaign and blatantly ignore or literally turn there heads when factual documents or information is presented to them and forums like the Loose change tendency to ban members that don't embrace the conspiracy theory or members that attempt to debate the truthers.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Ugh. Nothing personal, Juniversal, but...

In my eyes the 9/11 truth movement is very much a cult and this is made clear to me when truthers blatantly disregard or ignore pertinent information that conflicts with there their conspiracy theory or push long debunked falsehoods. Being part of a "movement" and following the leader no matter what is the essence of being a member of a cult.

vxC5_q50al8

In this video Mark (gravy) talks about how truthers will incessently put up false information in there their attempts to campaign and blatantly ignore or literally turn there their heads when factual documents or information is presented to them and forums like the Loose change tendency to ban members that don't embrace the conspiracy theory or members that attempt to debate the truthers.


That was bothering me. ;)

[bill smith]

In my eyes the 9/11 truth movement is very much a cult and this is made clear to me when truthers blatantly disregard or ignore pertinent information that conflicts with there conspiracy theory or push long debunked falsehoods. Being part of a "movement" and following the leader no matter what is the essence of being a member of a cult.

vxC5_q50al8

In this video Mark (gravy) talks about how truthers will incessently put up false information in there attempts to campaign and blatantly ignore or literally turn there heads when factual documents or information is presented to them and forums like the Loose change tendency to ban members that don't embrace the conspiracy theory or members that attempt to debate the truthers.

As I said earlier this statement of Robin Cook is well known. Read the yahoo link below.

"The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US ..." -- Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTTgpsAs4_c&amp;feature=related BBC Clip
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geur9qikZKcC0A60Ol87UF?p=%22The+trut h+is%2C+there+is+no+Islamic+army+or+terrorist+grou p+called+Al+Qaida.+And+any+informed+intelligence+o fficer+knows+this.+But+there+is+a+propaganda+campa ign+to+make+the+public+believe+in+the+presence+of+ an+identified+entity+representing+the+%27devil%27+ only+in+order+to+drive+the+TV+watcher+to+accept+a+ unified+international+leadership+for+a+war+against +terrorism.+The+country+behind+this+propaganda+is+ the+US+...%22+--+Former+British+Foreign+Secretary+Robin+Cook+&fr=sfp&fr2=&iscqry=

[Juniversal]

Ugh. Nothing personal, Juniversal, but...




That was bothering me. ;)My bad. I no how it is two be anil abuot things like that. ;) I'll try to remember the correct spellings for the future lol.

As I said earlier this statement of Robin Cook is well known. Read the yahoo link below.

"The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US ..." -- Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTTgpsAs4_c&amp;feature=related BBC Clip
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geur9qikZKcC0A60Ol87UF?p=%22The+trut h+is%2C+there+is+no+Islamic+army+or+terrorist+grou p+called+Al+Qaida.+And+any+informed+intelligence+o fficer+knows+this.+But+there+is+a+propaganda+campa ign+to+make+the+public+believe+in+the+presence+of+ an+identified+entity+representing+the+%27devil%27+ only+in+order+to+drive+the+TV+watcher+to+accept+a+ unified+international+leadership+for+a+war+against +terrorism.+The+country+behind+this+propaganda+is+ the+US+...%22+--+Former+British+Foreign+Secretary+Robin+Cook+&fr=sfp&fr2=&iscqry=Thanks for proving me right Bill. :cool:

[bill smith]

My bad. I no how it is two be anil abuot things like that. ;) I'll try to remember the correct spellings for the future lol.

Thanks for proving me right Bill. :cool:

Sigh....what won't you guys deny. It really is getting to the laughing out loud point.

[Juniversal]

Sigh....what won't you guys deny. It really is getting to the laughing out loud point.See: Post 15, 24, 34, 43.

[bill smith]

See: Post 15, 24, 34, 43.

Well...it's up to you.

[parky76]

As I said earlier this statement of Robin Cook is well known. Read the yahoo link below.


why don't you provide a link to an actual article written by Cook?
what are you afraid of?

does the truth hurt?

I believe it is painfully obvious that you have committed libel against Robin Cook, falsely accusing him of saying something where there is zero evidence that he said it.

typical truther tactic.

[dtugg]

Sigh....what won't you guys deny. It really is getting to the laughing out loud point.

The laugh out loud point has been reached a long time ago. And everybody is laughing at you.

[parky76]

The laugh out loud point has been reached a long time ago. And everybody is laughing at you.

no..no one laughs at them. they were funny in 2007..when they had some semblance of an organized movement. now they are soo few and far between..that its like laughing at a Piping plover. there are too few to notice.

[bill smith]

The laugh out loud point has been reached a long time ago. And everybody is laughing at you.

I don't know whether you ealise it or not but the wind is atarting to blow the other way dtugg and is forecast to stay that way.

[dtugg]

no..no one laughs at them. they were funny in 2007..when they had some semblance of an organized movement. now they are soo few and far between..that its like laughing at a Piping plover. there are too few to notice.

I agree that in the real world nobody even notices that the twoofer morons even exist. I meant that everybody here is laughing at bill specifcally. If he is for real, he has some serious issues. Normally I wouldn't laugh at somebody who has the problems that he does, but he is a liar and a terrorist apologist so I don't feel bad at all.

[FineWine]

I'm serious, why is it so hard for Troofers to admit and accept the reality of what happened that day? Any theories?


The misnamed "truth" movement is based on irrational hatred of America. Acknowledging that the source of all evil in the world was the victim of an unprovoked attack is unthinkable for America-haters. Some, like Noam Chomsky and Ward Churchill, understand that swallowing the "truth" movement's mythology means denying the Islamists their victory. They prefer to portray the attacks of 9/11 as "chickens coming home to roost" (exactly what Muslim nations America has ever attacked is never made clear). Howard Zinn usually belongs to the Chomsky camp, but he has flirted with the conspiracy nuts.

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

lying should be against JREF terms and conditions

Lying and YouTube are all Twoofers ever do.

It's all they ever have.

[FineWine]

This is part of the immutable historical record Mike. You can delete it in your mind and even try to delete it in the minds of others if you want but it will never stand. It is too widely known..


You've been set straight and you want to pretend that your lies are still worth something?? How pathetic is that?

[dtugg]

I don't know whether you ealise it or not but the wind is atarting to blow the other way dtugg and is forecast to stay that way.

Sure bill. :rolleyes: You know what makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside? The fact that you people will live the rest of your lives (and since you are only about 15 that will probably be at least more 60 years for you) and never see anything come of your pathetic terrorist hugging lies.

[Allen773]

Holocaust Denial is mostly not about the Holocaust; it's about Israel.

9-11 Denial is mostly not about 9-11, it's about Iraq and Afghanistan and the Patriot Act.

Well, you don't need to be a 9/11 Denier to disagree with those actions.

[The Platypus]

I don't know whether you ealise it or not but the wind is atarting to blow the other way dtugg and is forecast to stay that way.

Any day now they will show us all... annny day now... looks at watch.... just wait you'll all see... Been hearing that one for 7 1/2 years now. Meanwhile it's still nothing but a little lunatic fringe cult.

[parky76]

Bill Smith- are you going to provide direct evidence of the Robin Cook quote are you going to recant?

[bill smith]

Any day now they will show us all... annny day now... looks at watch.... just wait you'll all see... Been hearing that one for 7 1/2 years now. Meanwhile it's still nothing but a little lunatic fringe cult.

I think many Truthers have settled n for the long haul if neccessary and from what I can see forums are springing up all over the place.

[FineWine]

You must explain how 2 normal airliners weighing less than 200 tons each could destroy 2 skyscrapers weighing more than 400,000 tons each in less than 2 hours. Who or what flew the planes is totally irrelevant.

But apparently some people expect other people to accept that AQ did it without even being told the quantity of steel in the impact zones.

Shut up and believe what you are told no matter how stupid it is.

YEAH RIGHT!

Of course the people that believe in the OCT consider themselves to be smart and would have to get over a pretty big emotional hump to change their minds after SEVEN YEARS. Who cares how much steel and concrete was where? The laws of physics are irrelevant.

psik

Please re-read the OPs in the threads you are participating in, and ensure your posts are on-topic.


Let's see if we can tie your stupid obsession into the OP. No laws of physics were broken by the Islamist attacks. There is a small possibility that you really are so obtuse that you can't understand a word that real engineers tell you. There is a vastly larger possibility that you regularly make a fool of yourself to flog a political agenda. That agenda can only be America-hatred. The possibility that you are politically neutral and were roused to inaction by your passion for physics, a passion unconnected with any actual knowledge, is infinitesimal.

Your statement that the identities of the pilots of the planes that crashed into the twin towers and the Pentagon are irrelevant is staggeringly dumb, even for you. Yes, it is relevant that well-trained terrorists executed a planned mission. NIST explained the collapse mechanism in minute detail. That explanation was tested by computer simulations performed at Berkeley (under the guidance of a NIST critic) and Purdue. As everyone who has studied the issue knows the exact location of all the steel in the towers and the amount of concrete in the floor pans is also information that is readily available, your neurotic harping on this non-point is extremely tiresome.

Your game is transparent.

[ktesibios]

And blow them at the Moon.

Since bill smith appears to be unable to process any information that does not come from a conspiracist Web site, here are a few reprints of Bunel's original article with the exact words bill insists on attributing to Robin Cook, straight from the conspiracy theory industry:

From globalresearch.ca (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=1291)

Here it is from Rense.com (http://www.rense.com/general68/alq.htm)

And from thetruthseeker.co.uk (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=3836)

And here's a site I never heard of before (http://vyzygoth.com/bogey.pdf)

The original at waynemadsenreport.com is now behind a paywall (http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/articles/20070413_54) and I am not giving that damned liar a dime to read his twaddle.

Also, the real primary source, a magazine published in India called World Affairs (http://www.worldaffairsjournal.com/), only has on-line archives back to 2007. For the truly anal, a library search might turn up a hard copy.

Nevertheless, there it is for bill's benefit- sources with impeccable CT credentials, all of which clearly illustrate the true authorship of the quote in question.

For 'tis the sport to have the enginer Hoist with his own petar, and 't shall go hard,...

[FineWine]

Well...it's up to you.


You were caught lying again.

[FineWine]

I think many Truthers have settled n for the long haul if neccessary and from what I can see forums are springing up all over the place.


Given that Obama has been president for five months and still nobody has come forward, that long haul is going to be very, very long.

Say, what ever happened to the fascist dictatorship that Bush was setting up?

Bye, Bill. Sorry you had to run.

[The Platypus]

I think many Truthers have settled n for the long haul if neccessary and from what I can see forums are springing up all over the place.

The christians been playing the same game for 2000 years now. Jesus will return any day now.

Grasping on to delusions for a long time, still won't help you...

[twinstead]

Oh, you'll see. You'll ALL see!!!

[BigAl]

I think many Truthers have settled n for the long haul if neccessary and from what I can see forums are springing up all over the place.

In the meantime, new Angry Citizens movements pop up all the time and put hundreds to thousands of people in the street to make the public aware of their points and get spokespeople on one radio/TV program after another and clog the White House switch board with their issues.

For these groups, Internet forums are a tool, not a goal.

[Ambrosia]

There are good reasons for doubting the existance of Al-Quaeda as it is portrayed by the Americans and British

There is good reason to not swallow the US/UK's media propoganda on Al Qaeda, AQ certainly existed pre 911, though nowhere near as powerful and well organised as they are made out to be. The reaction of the west since then will certainly have galvanised AQ and made it into a much stronger organisation.


"The truth is, [snip]..." -- Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook

(Note: Robin Cook died suddenly soon after making this statement whatever you want to make of that)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTTgpsAs4_c&amp;feature=related BBC Clip

Your youtube clip doesn't include Robin Cook actually saying that - as he never did. (Clip is from "The Power of Nightmares" which is a worthwhile watch imo.)

Cook wrote his piece in the Guardian, re Al Qaeda on July 8th 2005 the day after the 7/7 London tube bombings. to give his article a little more context.

At the time he was a back bencher, he resigned his cabinet position in 2003 over the War, a decision I have the highest respect for.

It's also questionable as to how much authority he could speak with regarding AQ. He was moved from his former post at the Home Office, after the 2001 General Election in the UK which was 3 months before 9/11

Your quote is wrong, was never actually said by RC, and it implies that RC knew about this because he was a former HS. Lies and deception.

He died some 4 weeks after writing that, which is an odd way to define "soon" given that a week is a long time in politics, whatever you want to make of that.

imo the quote that ought to be remembered from Cooks guardian article was.

So long as the struggle against terrorism is conceived as a war that can be won by military means, it is doomed to fail. The more the west emphasises confrontation, the more it silences moderate voices in the Muslim world who want to speak up for cooperation. Success will only come from isolating the terrorists and denying them support, funds and recruits, which means focusing more on our common ground with the Muslim world than on what divides us.

- link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development)

To get back on topic, I don't know. While it's obvious to anyone who actually looks at the evidence that of course AQ carried out 9/11, there are a bunch of questions about who actually gave the orders, and how much the security services did or didn't know that rarely get discussed in any kind of sensible discussion, precisely because of the "9/11 Truth" brigade, who are the biggest obstacles to truth I think it is possible to be.

[FineWine]

I don't know whether you ealise it or not but the wind is atarting to blow the other way dtugg and is forecast to stay that way.


Your desperation forces you to pretend that your insane movement is not dead in the water. Can't you see that nothing ever happens? The fraud Steven Jones and his accomplices try to take the heat off themselves for failing to make good on their debunked thermite claims by inventing superdoopernanothermite. The nuts get all giggly for a while, then gradually start to notice that they've been conned again. What his next trick will be is hard to predict, but it is certain that he will NEVER submit his bogus "work" to an independent lab. Your befuddled guru Heiwa has the temerity to foist his insanity on the ASCE journal. When some more real engineers slap him down, he will be flapping his arms and screaming about "religious fundamentalists." You will, of course, bray your mindless solidarity with him. A psycho just fabricated a preposterous yarn about the four hijacked planes being grounded for nine months. You dutifully lapped it up.

Face it, sport, you'd buy any bridge Griffin or Gage tried to sell.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Haha. Number of Internet forums as a measure of progress. That's awesome. Good one, bill smith.

How many Internet forums does it take to bring down a corrupt organization? Hmm?

[BigAl]

There is good reason to not swallow the US/UK's media propoganda on Al Qaeda, AQ certainly existed pre 911, though nowhere near as powerful and well organised as they are made out to be.

AQ was tiny on and before 9/11/2001 and appears to have become even smaller and less effectuate ever since.

If the US Government (aka the taxpayers) is funding them, I want my money back for their ineffectiveness.

[Allen773]

AQ was tiny on and before 9/11/2001 and appears to have become even smaller and less effectuate ever since.

If the US Government (aka the taxpayers) is funding them, I want my money back for their ineffectiveness.

Indeed. The actual number of people in the core of al Qaeda was/is probably under 500.

[BigAl]

Indeed. The actual number of people in the core of al Qaeda was/is probably under 500.

And I suspect that most of those people didn't speak English and were therefor useless as manpower in any sort of operation in the US that living here under cover.

[parky76]

I think many Truthers have settled n for the long haul if neccessary and from what I can see forums are springing up all over the place.

#1. please provide direct evidence of Robin Cook's quote.

#2. what does an internet forum have to do with the real world popularity of a political theory?
how many internet forums are devoted to free-market capitalism?

p.s...it only takes one guy to make an internet forum. and one guy can make multiple forums.

[JihadJane]

blah blah blah ad infinitum ...

[parky76]

blah blah blah ad infinitum ...

thanks for trolling.

[FineWine]

blah blah blah ad infinitum ...


Your most accurate and substantive post to date.

[bill smith]

And blow them at the Moon.

Since bill smith appears to be unable to process any information that does not come from a conspiracist Web site, here are a few reprints of Bunel's original article with the exact words bill insists on attributing to Robin Cook, straight from the conspiracy theory industry:

From globalresearch.ca (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=1291)

Here it is from Rense.com (http://www.rense.com/general68/alq.htm)

And from thetruthseeker.co.uk (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=3836)

And here's a site I never heard of before (http://vyzygoth.com/bogey.pdf)

The original at waynemadsenreport.com is now behind a paywall (http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/articles/20070413_54) and I am not giving that damned liar a dime to read his twaddle.

Also, the real primary source, a magazine published in India called World Affairs (http://www.worldaffairsjournal.com/), only has on-line archives back to 2007. For the truly anal, a library search might turn up a hard copy.

Nevertheless, there it is for bill's benefit- sources with impeccable CT credentials, all of which clearly illustrate the true authorship of the quote in question.

For 'tis the sport to have the enginer Hoist with his own petar, and 't shall go hard,...

Well....I have to apologise for wrongly attributing the statement to Robin Cook. It looks like that was an error. So my thanks to all for putting me straight and my apologies to any I may have misled.

[JihadJane]

thanks for trolling.

I wasn't trolling. That was my sincere opinion.

[TruthersLie]

Bill.

What you need to apologize for is your dogged, unwavering, slobbering act while people were pointing out YOUR LIE.

Being a putz is what you need to apologize for. When people show you that your claims are wrong, you should know better than to just state "He did so!!!!" and act like a putz without ACTUALLY CHECKING ANY OF YOUR FACTS.

But wait, you consistently do that. (how about those 4 jets not flying for the 9 months before 9/11? or all the other BS claims which are LIES or distortions which you constantly blather about.)

[parky76]

Well....I have to apologise for wrongly attributing the statement to Robin Cook. It looks like that was an error. So my thanks to all for putting me straight and my apologies to any I may have misled.

If this is an honest apology, then I totally accept it. We all make mistakes.

Just remember that the desire to believe something is true sometimes overwhelmes our ability to make sure it is true.

[bill smith]

Bill.

What you need to apologize for is your dogged, unwavering, slobbering act while people were pointing out YOUR LIE.

Being a putz is what you need to apologize for. When people show you that your claims are wrong, you should know better than to just state "He did so!!!!" and act like a putz without ACTUALLY CHECKING ANY OF YOUR FACTS.

But wait, you consistently do that. (how about those 4 jets not flying for the 9 months before 9/11? or all the other BS claims which are LIES or distortions which you constantly blather about.)


When I make an error I have no problem owning up to it.After all no progress will be made if people do not do this. I don't remember making a big deal about the 6 months thing ? Are you sure about your facts ?

[TruthersLie]

Sorry Bill you are right about the 9 month jet thing. You only slightlly nibbled at that.

i was confusing you with another...

but it still is the same thing (your missing steel, and other wackiness which pisses all over the dead and slanders the living.)

Next time check your facts before you act like a PUTZ and make a complete ass out of yourself.

[bill smith]

Sorry Bill you are right about the 9 month jet thing. You only slightlly nibbled at that.

i was confusing you with another...

but it still is the same thing (your missing steel, and other wackiness which pisses all over the dead and slanders the living.)

Next time check your facts before you act like a PUTZ and make a complete ass out of yourself.

Well just check your facts more carefully next time. Regrding the steel- you are always free to show me the 10 MILES of core columns that are not there. You have conspicuously failed to do so up to now.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I'm serious, why is it so hard for Troofers to admit and accept the reality of what happened that day? Any theories?

9/11 truthers are the current incarnation of a movement that has been around for decades. I was one of these pinheads during my own "angry young man" phase back in the mid-90s.

Put simply, they need 9/11 to be an inside job. There is very much a political side to their theories about how the world works and what would make it work better. If 9/11 were an inside job, it could only be so as the result of a truly mammoth undertaking that would rival D-Day or the Manhattan project. Any system that could create such an overwhelmingly huge conspiracy, spending untold billions and recruiting thousand to carry it out and tens of thousands more to hush it up would be irreparably broken.

Proving 9/11 to be an inside job would give them the blank check they need to tear down and remake society in their image.

A tiny handful of bold and cunning university students with no regard for their own safety just isn't exploitable to help further the truthian agenda.

[Allen773]

9/11 truthers are the current incarnation of a movement that has been around for decades. I was one of these pinheads during my own "angry young man" phase back in the mid-90s.

Put simply, they need 9/11 to be an inside job. There is very much a political side to their theories about how the world works and what would make it work better. If 9/11 were an inside job, it could only be so as the result of a truly mammoth undertaking that would rival D-Day or the Manhattan project. Any system that could create such an overwhelmingly huge conspiracy, spending untold billions and recruiting thousand to carry it out and tens of thousands more to hush it up would be irreparably broken.

Proving 9/11 to be an inside job would give them the blank check they need to tear down and remake society in their image.

A tiny handful of bold and cunning university students with no regard for their own safety just isn't exploitable to help further the truthian agenda.

Ah, so it is an attempt to radically alter society and draw attention to themselves.

I think of Timothy McVeigh as an example of the extreme side of that goal to tear down and remake society.

[tfk]

Hey, everybody knows conspiracy theorists get all the hot chicks! What more reason is there?

Just my humble opinion, but...

... it is not possible to describe anyone (of either gender, or anywhere in between) who is stupid enough to swallow Twoofer lunacy as "hot".

tom

PS. And, yes, I chose that last verb intentionally.

[tfk]

Sure bill. ... and since you are only about 15 ...

Nope. About 26.

The excuses fade ...

tom

[bill smith]

In this speech Obama says ''right now in distant training camps there are people plotting to take American lives' He says this will still be so in five five, even 10 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk4mGbWx3a0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Esalon%2Ecom%2Fopinion%2Fgr eenwald%2F2009%2F06%2F27%2Fpreventive%5Fdetention% 2F&feature=player_embedded

I'm sure we are all aware of the moves lately to remove any doubts about the threat that Al-Quaeda supposedly poses. All of American foreign policy hangs on this one thread.

It may be an exercise in futility as many in the western world are aware of the doubts surrounding America's representation of Al-Quaeda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTTgpsAs4_c&amp;feature=related BBC Clip

[beachnut]

I'm serious, why is it so hard for Troofers to admit and accept the reality of what happened that day? Any theories?
They can't grasp the simple plot of killing pilots and flying planes into buildings. They lack knowledge and are gullible to repeat failed ideas and delusions of other people. they are failed followers in delusional movement formed on failed opinions and lies.

[parky76]

It may be an exercise in futility as many in the western the world are aware of the doubts surrounding America's representation of Al-Quaeda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTTgpsAs4_c&amp;feature=related BBC Clip

you know, there is a term for posting the same Youtube video, again and again. its called Spam.

[bill smith]

you know, there is a term for posting the same Youtube video, again and again. its called Spam.

The same video can elucidate different aspects of a central argment as in this case.

[beachnut]

The same video can elucidate different aspects of a central argment as in this case.
You post off topic claptrap in this thread and you have no clue about 911. All your ideas on 911 are wrong and you fail to grasp that fact.

You have manage to get everything wrong on 911 as you post lies and you can't logically tie your videos to the thread topic. Get on topic if that is possible in your delusional 911 world of lies where you post dolt videos without explaining in detail how they relate to the topic.

No the video has nothing to do with your inability to admit 19 terrorists did 911. The videos do not explain anything on this thread except you are able to SPAM and post junk. Your post is further proof of your shallow research just like the Cook lie you posted and your missing steel delusion.

[Ambrosia]

The same video can elucidate different aspects of a central argment as in this case.

really?

I watched the 3 hours of that documentary some time ago, it's a very good film imo.

But all that it really tells us is we should not believe what our politicians tell us, simply because they tell us it is so.

Wow what big news.

Thing is for 9/11, once you go and actually, you know, look at the evidence. It turns out that in fact 19 Arab hijackers hijacked some planes, flew 3 of them into buildings, and were rumbled on the 4th plane which crashed into a field.

Alex Jones and his ilk feed us just as much of the "Politics of Fear" as the media does, only with a different kind of spin on it. They pull the same tricks but they dress up their message as "the truth" they get lots of believers who believe any old tripe they get fed.

When you actually, look at the evidence for what they say, you discover it's mostly lies and deception. Many people honestly believe the things they say and deceive themselves in the process.

Thats the whole point of skepticism, don't believe what anyone tells you, only go with the evidence. If new evidence appears that later trumps the old evidence, then go with the new evidence.

[Regnad Kcin]

Sigh....what won't you guys deny. It really is getting to the laughing out loud point.Do you deny that any purported "inside job" with regard to the events of 9/11 is 100% impossible?

[parky76]

But all that it really tells us is we should not believe what our politicians tell us, simply because they tell us it is so.



It doesn't require much brain power, or ability to discern truth from fiction, or evaluate evidence, if you simply disregard EVERYTHING that someone in Federal/State/local government tells you.

Its an easy out...an easy excuse to avoid actually thinking.

[bill smith]

It doesn't require much brain power, or ability to discern truth from fiction, or evaluate evidence, if you simply disregard EVERYTHING that someone in Federal/State/local government tells you.

Its an easy out...an easy excuse to avoid actually thinking.

Along the lines of 'little white lies' and 'don't believe everything you read' lol.

Me ?....I take it a lot more seriously than that and fortunately so do millions of other people.

[parky76]

Along the lines of 'little white lies' and 'don't believe everything you read' lol.

Me ?....I take it a lot more seriously than that and fortunately so do millions of other people.

too bad none of them are truthers. most truthers follow the logic:

"anything said by a government official is a lie"

[bill smith]

It doesn't require much brain power, or ability to discern truth from fiction, or evaluate evidence, if you simply disregard EVERYTHING that someone in Federal/State/local government tells you.

Its an easy out...an easy excuse to avoid actually thinking.

Mike Rivero talked about that.

"Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

[Allen773]

Mike Rivero talked about that.

"Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

What are you doing about it, since you're so enlightened?

[bill smith]

What are you doing about it, since you're so enlightened?

What I can do until HR 1966 is passed.

[BigAl]

What I can do until HR 1966 is passed.

What do you think is wrong with HR1966? How do you think it will affect you and other paranoids?

[LashL]

What I can do until HR 1966 is passed.

So, you are concerned that if it is ever passed, you will no longer be able to intentionally coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to support severe, repeated and hostile behaviour? What an odd way to go about spreading the "truth".

[Regnad Kcin]

Yoo-hoo! Bill, over here!Do you deny that any purported "inside job" with regard to the events of 9/11 is 100% impossible?

[bill smith]

So, you are concerned that if it is ever passed, you will no longer be able to intentionally coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to support severe, repeated and hostile behaviour? What an odd way to go about spreading the "truth".

Essentially yes. You can remove the 'hostile' .The rest is subjective interpretation and could just as easily be seen as persuade, impress, discomfit, cause a reevaluation by electronic means. This is a perfect way to spread the truth.

What is '' repeated severe behaviour ' by the way ?

[bill smith]

What do you think is wrong with HR1966? How do you think it will affect you and other paranoids?
It will affect all of us Al. The difference is that you do not mind being a slave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS-hchxVTyk&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egodlikeproductions%2Ecom%2 Fforum1%2Fmessage827329%2Fpg2&feature=player_embedded

[parky76]

It will affect all of us Al. The difference is that you do not mind being a slave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS-hchxVTyk&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egodlikeproductions%2Ecom%2 Fforum1%2Fmessage827329%2Fpg2&feature=player_embedded

you know, constantly posting Youtube videos instead of actually taking the time to express your views, is kinda immature and very unsophisticated.

and suggesting that anyone who disagrees with you "doesn't mind being a slave" is more BS strawmen from someone who can't speak for himself.

as for HR 1966, why do you think that Americans should have the right to repeatedly harass and submit hostile messages over the internet? why do you think that anyone should have the right to harrass someone, again and again, cause them emotional harm and distress, without any penalties??? how would you feel if your mom was recieving threatening and harrassing emails every day, calling her a traitor, a murderer, and a liar?

typical truther behavior.

[bill smith]

you know, constantly posting Youtube videos instead of actually taking the time to express your views, is kinda immature and very unsophisticated.

and suggesting that anyone who disagrees with you "doesn't mind being a slave" is more BS strawmen from someone who can't speak for himself.

as for HR 1966, why do you think that Americans should have the right to repeatedly harass and submit hostile messages over the internet? why do you think that anyone should have the right to harrass someone, again and again, cause them emotional harm and distress, without any penalties??? how would you feel if your mom was recieving threatening and harrassing emails every day, calling her a traitor, a murderer, and a liar?

typical truther behavior.

Forums and chat-boxes and so forth are essentially self-policing. Ocasionally somebody will kill themselves or another over some mental fugue they have gotten into. But this is no excuse to shut down free speech on the internet. How many people are killed in car crashes every year ? Do you see them banning cars ?

[parky76]

Forums and chat-boxes and so forth are essentially self-policing. Ocasionally somebody will kill themselves or another over some mental fugue they have gotten into. But this is no excuse to shut down free speech on the internet. How many people are killed in car crashes every year ? Do you see them banning cars ?

HR 1966 is not about messages in an internet forum (afaik). its about emails, instant messeges, and other computerized forms of communication.

it is illegal to harrass someone, again and again, leaving threatening and offensive voicemail messages. the same should be illegal over emails, text messaging, and other digital communications.

you have no right to constantly harrass and threaten people. you have no right to leave messages on someone's answering machine calling them a "traitor, a murderer, a NWO agent", again and again.

i know its common truther behavior, but its not a protected right.

again, how would you feel if the target of repeated electronic harrassment, was your own mother?

[bill smith]

HR 1966 is not about messages in an internet forum (afaik). its about emails, instant messeges, and other computerized forms of communication.

it is illegal to harrass someone, again and again, leaving threatening and offensive voicemail messages. the same should be illegal over emails, text messaging, and other digital communications.

you have no right to constantly harrass and threaten people. you have no right to leave messages on someone's answering machine calling them a "traitor, a murderer, a NWO agent", again and again.

i know its common truther behavior, but its not a protected right.

again, how would you feel if the target of repeated electronic harrassment, was your own mother?

The Internet is no less vital than your gas or electricity supply. Your TV cable or your water. It is in other words an essential service an we will all be the worse off for encroaching regulation. We should resist any restricton or control tooth and nail. Mybe a little tweaking under careful independent supervision but no Government or big business interventions of any kind.

[Corsair 115]

I wasn't trolling. That was my sincere opinion.


Opinion is irrelevant where there is actual evidence and data from which to work.

[parky76]

The Internet is no less vital than your gas or electricity supply. Your TV cable or your water.

Internet access is as vital as access to clean water??? lolol

my friend, you are aware that life did exist, and does exist in much of the populated world, WITHOUT internet.

lolol!!!

kids these days are just soo spoiled and just have no clue.

and btw, internet addiction is no laughing matter.

anyways, HR1966 is not going to take away your internet. its just gonna put you in jail if you consistently harass or threaten someone via email or text message. so unless you have an unfortunate habit of harrassing and threatening people via email or text message, you should be just fine.

do YOU have a bad habit of harrassing or threatening people online??

[FineWine]

The same video can elucidate different aspects of a central argment as in this case.


Your central argument is, of course, nonsense. American foreign policy is not built around al Qaeda. Iran and North Korea are the focal points of American foreign policy. Islamist terrorism presents an ongoing threat to national security, but that threat is secondary to the one posed by the acquisition of nuclear weapons by unstable, authoritarian states.

[six7s]

The Internet is no less vital than your gas or electricity supply. Your TV cable or your water. It is in other words an essential serviceSo... you have no idea what vital means...

What do you know? Anything?

[parky76]

There is something very troubling about a post that claims that access to the internet is as important as clean drinking water and heat for your home. Something very troubling indeed.

[defaultdotxbe]

truthers, and in act conspiracy theorists in general tend to live in a world of rediculous absolutes, similar to one of those old riddles, where everyone is either a white-hat that always tells the truth, or a brown-hat that always lies

if the government is not a white-hat they must be a brown-hat, if they lied about one thing they must lie about everything, so if they accept the government is telling the truth about 9/11 then they must tell the truth about everything, something they cannot accept

youll see this kind of logic coloring their interactions with debunkers a lot, im sure everyone who has interacted with truthers more than once has been accused of believing anything and everything the government says, because if we believe the government about 9/11 we must consider them to be ever-truthful white-hats

/2cents

[tsig]

Forums and chat-boxes and so forth are essentially self-policing. Ocasionally somebody will kill themselves or another over some mental fugue they have gotten into. But this is no excuse to shut down free speech on the internet. How many people are killed in car crashes every year ? Do you see them banning cars ?

Can you show me your license to operate a computer?

[parky76]

truthers, and in act conspiracy theorists in general tend to live in a world of rediculous absolutes, similar to one of those old riddles, where everyone is either a white-hat that always tells the truth, or a brown-hat that always lies

does this suggest a prevalence of bi-polar disorder amoung truthers? they certainly do view the world and everything and everyone around them from a very bi-polar perspective.

they are the light..everyone else is the darkness.
they have the truth..everyone else has lies.
they are good..everyone else is evil.
the government is all bad...nothing they say can be trusted.
you are either for 9-11 truth..or you are with the conspirators who carried out 9-11.

very very bipolar indeed.

[Foolmewunz]

The Internet is no less vital than your gas or electricity supply. Your TV cable or your water. It is in other words an essential service an we will all be the worse off for encroaching regulation. We should resist any restricton or control tooth and nail. Mybe a little tweaking under careful independent supervision but no Government or big business interventions of any kind.

Has anyone got some Handi-Wipes? I've just been bukakaed with DTS (Deranged Truth Syndrome).

So, Bill Smith, if the internet goes down, people are going to starve and die? That's what happens if they have no water.
Will they freeze to death in Beijing? That's what happens if their gas, electricity, coal or oil is shut off.
I'll concede that it's just as important as Cable TV - they're both on the same level, e.g. nice toys if you can afford them.

I'd like to see the look on your face (it might be the last such) when you walk into a camp of starving refugees in Darfur and tell them you haven't brought water or rice or millet, but you're getting them all Internet Access.

It would be nice if you had some idea of what the real world is. There are people who are actually without clean water or food in this world! We're hearing from spoiled little middle class brats who think that a crisis is when the price of Levi's goes up.

[parky76]

Has anyone got some Handi-Wipes? I've just been bukakaed with DTS (Deranged Truth Syndrome).

So, Bill Smith, if the internet goes down, people are going to starve and die? That's what happens if they have no water.
Will they freeze to death in Beijing? That's what happens if their gas, electricity, coal or oil is shut off.
I'll concede that it's just as important as Cable TV - they're both on the same level, e.g. nice toys if you can afford them.

Dude, if the internet goes down, life simply isn't worth living!!

:p

cue Young Frankenstein: "I do not want to live!!!!!"

[Cl1mh4224rd]

bill smith is clearly unaware that the word "vital" requires context. For example, while a steering wheel is vital to the proper operation of a car, it's certainly not vital to the proper operation of a computer.

[parky76]

bill smith is clearly unaware that the word "vital" requires context. For example, while a steering wheel is vital to the proper operation of a car, it's certainly not vital to the proper operation of a computer.

leave it to truthers to provide great comic relief.
:D:p:);)

[Stellafane]

Because the reality doesn't make you feel special.

Really, I think this is about all the 9/11 Truther thing adds up to. Just a few people with little else going on in their lives, so they buy into this conspiracy theory that's so ridiculous that the slightest intrusion of reality would blow it to smithereens. They create this convoluted fantasy world as a way to feel significant. It's diseased and pathetic, but it's one way to feel a connection with other people.

I've always viewed Trutherism as a cross between a role-playing game and dementia. Thus I suppose I should pity these poor, willfully deluded people, and probably would if they weren't so often slandering thousands of innocent people and dishonoring the dead.

[six7s]

There is something very troubling about a post that claims that access to the internet is as important as clean drinking water and heat for your home. Something very troubling indeed.Troubling? Maybe...

It can also be quite informative...

To me, such blatant ignorance is a clear indication (as if any was needed!) that all of the other 'points' made by the poster in question are likely to be of equal depth and meaning - so all that's really necessary is a quick skim reading is to gauge the direction of the latest tangent

[six7s]

bill smith is clearly unaware that the word "vital" requires context. For example, while a steering wheel is vital to the proper operation of a car, it's certainly not vital to the proper operation of a computer.To me, the word vital suggests 'essential to life' - as in vitality, vitamins and La Dolce Vita...

wN6vmd_YE2g

Hey... maybe YouTube is vital ;)

[JoeyDonuts]

He's right you know. Without the internet, how would we order pizzas, shop for clothing, pay our bills, communicate with other humans, find a mate, or get our news from YouTube comments?

It would be anarchy, I say! Total breakdown of law and order!

Wait. Isn't that what we want, though? I'm so confused! How am I going to get my PrisonPlanet marching orders without the intertubes?

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

I've always viewed Trutherism as a cross between a role-playing game and dementia.

Perfect.:D

[Cuddles]

The Internet is no less vital than your gas or electricity supply. Your TV cable or your water.

I don't have a gas supply or a TV cable.

[Foolmewunz]

I don't have a gas supply or a TV cable.

Whoa! Dude! You're lucky you have the Internet. You could be, like, dead, otherwise.

[Klimax]

Whoa! Dude! You're lucky you have the Internet. You could be, like, dead, otherwise.

Heh. I am not dead,yet i don't have TV at all... (But tons of old PCs ;) )

[Regnad Kcin]

That's okay, Bill. Ignore away. But it will never, ever make your 100% impossible "inside job" into anything more than a silly little parlour game.

This kind of thing might ordinarily be sad, but I can't find much pity for the militantly ignorant.

[tfk]

It will affect all of us Al. The difference is that you do not mind being a slave.


... opines the slave to stupidity & paranoia.

"Extra serving of irony, anyone?"

tom

[parky76]

I don't have a gas supply or a TV cable.
slave!!!!!!!!!!

:p