Childlike Empress' Thread on Freemasonry

[LightinDarkness]

After repeatedly derailing my thread on Freeman on the Land wooism (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=147009) and trolling it to the extent that the thread is probably ruined, I have started this thread for Childlike Empress. I don't know of any other way to prevent the constant trolling of the other thread, as my repeated calls to make a separate thread were ignored by the troll.

So here you go, Childlike Empress. You can now bash Freemasonry all you want and be on topic. I don't know why you refused to make this thread on your own.

[Childlike Empress]

This was my original post in that thread:

I never make it through one of LightInDarkness' posts without thinking to myself, sorry, "this guy has a screw loose". Before you ask, I consider Freemasonary to be a pathetic club of greedy boyscouts who don't rule anything. Your posts, LiD, are counterproductive. Talking about threwing the baby out with the bathwater.


I think the reaction objectifies my impression.

[LightinDarkness]

From the previous thread:


please outline the core of your believe, as it isn't secret. Three sentences or so would suffice. Thanks.

The core of freemasonic philosophy is the equality of all men, always pursing truth, and the need for community charity. It really is just that simple.

[LightinDarkness]

This was my original post in that thread:




I think the reaction objectifies my impression.

It does indeed objectify your supreme lack of knowledge that you use to troll, on that we agree.

I suspect now that I have provided you an obvious outlet to bash freemasonry instead of derailing threads that have nothing to do with it, you will disappear. You could surprise me with a respectable discussion of the subject, but I'm not counting on it.

[Childlike Empress]

From the previous thread:



The core of freemasonic philosophy is the equality of all men, always pursing truth, and the need for community charity. It really is just that simple.


According to some people in the politics forum i am a commie, and what you wrote would in the same superficial way cover communism as freemasonary. What about Hiram Abiff and the Temple of Solomon?

[LightinDarkness]

According to some people in the politics forum i am a commie, and what you wrote would in the same superficial way cover communism as freemasonary. What about Hiram Abiff and the Temple of Solomon?

What in the world? You ask me for a simple answer and I give it to you, then you claim its superficial? Wrong. Its the truth - but its not what you want it to be.

What about Hiriam Abiff and the Temple of Solomon? Both in freemasonry are allegorical myths used to teach the importance of the first three things I talked about. Its the very definition of a morality play.

[Childlike Empress]

The none-simple answer wouldn't be understandable to me anyway, would it? EOD. Vy 73.

[prewitt81]

I'm still a card-carrying Freemason though I haven't attended Lodge in over a year now. I'm not sure what is meant by "greedy boyscouts who don't rule anything". Masons have never claimed to rule anything, and at what was probably the peak of Masonic fundraising, over 2 million dollars per day were given to charitable causes. Hardly greedy.

As with any organization, fraternities in particular, there there are things that one could point out as flaws, but as the organization is dynamic, those flaws tend to correct themselves. What bothers you about Freemasonry, CE? I'm not here to try to robotically counter any claim you make, but I usually post in any Freemasonry thread I find as the organization interests me and I have firsthand experience in it.

[prewitt81]

I should add, there is plenty I don't like about the fraternity, and had I not become an atheist a few years after joining, would've worked from the inside to change.

[LightinDarkness]

The none-simple answer wouldn't be understandable to me anyway, would it? EOD. Vy 73.

What are you talking about?

Freemasonry isn't rocket science. Its pretty easy to understand - which is why the main tenets aren't ground breaking or earth shattering. But you don't want to believe it could be that simple.

You completely derailed my thread which had nothing to do about freemasonry and kept trying to talk about it in the wrong thread, so you must have something you'd like to discuss.

What, you want more detail? You just told me to be simple, but OK:

In the allegorical myths that freemasonry uses, Abiff functions as the center character in the third degree, which in large part features a morality play. The story (and, because its a morality play, its only a story) is that Abiff was the chief architect of King Solomon's Temple. The story goes that during the building of the temple some of the operative masons working on it were upset that they were not getting promoted enough, and they confronted him about it. During that time period a "promotion" for operative stone masons was learning the secrets of the next class up, which were trade secrets. Abiff refused to give the secrets and is killed by these stone masons. They bury his body and try to flee the country, but are caught. Upon being caught Abiff is buried in a nicer place and the murderers ordered to be killed off by King Solomon.

The candidate plays the role of Abiff, whose lines are spoken for him by one of the officers. After all the morality play is over the candidate - who was told previously to lay down and not move (since Abiff is dead) is lifted back up.

[Childlike Empress]

What bothers you about Freemasonry, CE? I'm not here to try to robotically counter any claim you make, but I usually post in any Freemasonry thread I find as the organization interest me and I have firsthand experience in it.


Comparatively not much bothers me about freemasonery. I was annoyed by a post by LiD, expressed my feelings and there we have this thread.

[JihadJane]

From the previous thread:



The core of freemasonic philosophy is the equality of all men, always pursing truth, and the need for community charity. It really is just that simple.


:confused:

What made you become a member, then?

How come they let you in?

[prewitt81]

Comparatively not much bothers me about freemasonery. I was annoyed by a post by LiD, expressed my feelings and there we have this thread.

Fair enough.

[LightinDarkness]

:confused:

What made you become a member, then?

How come they let you in?

I know this is a troll attempt, but I'll ignore it.

Probably because I agreed to uphold those values and no one saw anything in my background check or interview to cause concern.

[LightinDarkness]

Comparatively not much bothers me about freemasonery. I was annoyed by a post by LiD, expressed my feelings and there we have this thread.

This is again admitting to being nothing but a pure troll.

[Childlike Empress]

Calm down and thanks for #10 edit.

[LightinDarkness]

Calm down and thanks for #10 edit.

Doesn't even deny it.

[Childlike Empress]

What?

[fitzgibbon]

"being nothing but a pure troll"

[fitzgibbon]

From the previous thread:

The core of freemasonic philosophy is the equality of all men, always pursing truth, and the need for community charity. It really is just that simple.

What made you become a member, then?

Because perhaps more good can be accomplished by mutual communal efforts toward the same goal than can be accomplished individually? That'd be one reasonable response that could be applied to joining any community-minded group.


How come they let you in?

Because he was deemed to be of mature age and sound morals? Is it that hard to believe?

[Childlike Empress]

Apparently freemasonary is communism in disguise. Folks, you are making a very poor choice. We have temenarious beards and you have silly, what, skirts? Come on.

[fitzgibbon]

CE,

Wanna back you assertions up? You're coming off like a troll

[Childlike Empress]

Really? Are you sure? Isn't it a lack of humour/self-irony on your part? Who knows, i'm falling asleep anyway....

[Cl1mh4224rd]

What bothers you about Freemasonry, CE?
Comparatively not much bothers me about freemasonery.


You know... you didn't actually answer the question. I assume that's so you could continue to do stuff like this:

Apparently freemasonary is communism in disguise.


So, what is it about Freemasonry that bothers you?

[Childlike Empress]

Hmm, #2 says "Before you ask, I consider Freemasonary to be a pathetic club of greedy boyscouts who don't rule anything". Interesting opinion, isn't it. If you wanna know what i think about the contributions of the guy who started this very thread - well, please try to read the signs and don't ask me.

[fitzgibbon]

Cl1mh4224rd,

We be witnessing a troll here. The thread won't go anywhere.


http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/84b16d7fc036.jpg

[Childlike Empress]

FREEMASONARY IS WOO!!!!


cya

[LightinDarkness]

FREEMASONARY IS WOO!!!!


cya

Only in your feverish imagination can a system of morality involving such concepts like "community service is good", and "people are equal" be woo.

Frankly, I don't have to say anything else - you've discredited yourself more than enough.

We may need the industrial strength anti-troll repellent for this one. Or one for roaches.

[Childlike Empress]

Frankly, I don't have to say anything else - you've discredited yourself more than enough.


:D

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

Freemasonry is Woo? I never would have guessed!! I better tell my Grandfather!!

[stilicho]

I consider Freemasonary to be a pathetic club of greedy boyscouts who don't rule anything.

You could probably substitute MENSA, the Rotary Club, the Presbyterian Church, or the membership rolls of JREF, for "Freemasonry" and come up with the same statement.

There's really nothing very mysterious or "woo-ish" about the Freemasons. It's a social club, CE. In my community, they're very involved with establishing a sick childrens' hospital.

[stateofgrace]

I have to agree with the above; I am a member of the local lodge and have been for years. I cannot see why anybody would object to such a gathering.

There is nothing and I repeat nothing sinister about the freemasons. It's a social club where members and non members are free to come ago as they please. If common interests and being part of a community is wrong so be it. And yes I've got my mark and yes I'm allowed in other lodges, as is anybody who gets signed in by a member. Just kind of like any other social club.

Honest to goodness some of you Ct's need to get a life, get outside and join the real world, you know the one where people actually met in person and actually talk to one another. You know the real world, the one outside your house.

[Pantaz]

... There's really nothing very mysterious or "woo-ish" about the Freemasons. It's a social club, CE. In my community, they're very involved with establishing a sick childrens' hospital.

Childlike Empress apparently confused Freemason with Freeman, as evidenced by her first post (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=147042) (now in AAH) in the thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=147009). Of course, the two have absolutely nothing in common (except for those first four letters.)

[JihadJane]

.



Because he was deemed to be of mature age and sound morals? Is it that hard to believe?

Based on what I've seen on this forum, yes, on both counts.

[funk de fino]

lets throw the British Legion into the woo pot as well.

I am not a mason but have been to the local lodge with my friend who is, and my grandfather was also a mason.

People who get their knickers in a twist about them are seriously paranoid.

[LightinDarkness]

Based on what I've seen on this forum, yes, on both counts.

Silly Jihad, there you go projecting on yourself again. Just because you'd never be found eligible based on immaturity doesn't mean your arch-enemies (those who dare use logic, reason, and critical thinking) would not.

Back on topic, sans troll(s):

I suppose here at JREF we are all woos too. We are a social club that promotes good things like logic and critical thinking - just like freemasonry (slightly different ideas, but things like believing in EQUALITY are the result of logic and critical thinking).

Clearly, we are woo. Someone inform Randi immediately.

[Squidgy]

I was invited to a lodge by a guy I used to work with about 6 years ago but my mum had told me that secret societies were bad so I said no. I sometimes wonder how different my life would be had I said yes:confused:

[fitzgibbon]

Well, you wouldn't have to wear those glasses and you'd be hanging around with a better class of individual. :)

[LightinDarkness]

I was invited to a lodge by a guy I used to work with about 6 years ago but my mum had told me that secret societies were bad so I said no. I sometimes wonder how different my life would be had I said yes:confused:

Not that different. You would have gotten a tour of a snazzy lodge room, but its not likely to be life changing.


:D

Although my mom still thinks after all these years that I worship Lucifer. Its the darn History Channel specials on freemasonry. I debunk her and bring her back to reality then she watches another one and is more resolute than ever...

[Bobert]

What is wrong with the Boy Scouts?
LOL they are greedy?

[Squidgy]

Not that different. You would have gotten a tour of a snazzy lodge room, but its not likely to be life changing.

Maybe, but he wanted to initiate me. Not just give me a guided tour. He went really weird on me after I refused.

[Squidgy]

Well, you wouldn't have to wear those glasses and you'd be hanging around with a better class of individual. :)
I think your jealous of my rayban's :cool:

[LightinDarkness]

Maybe, but he wanted to initiate me. Not just give me a guided tour. He went really weird on me after I refused.

This is going to be long but I'm not sure of a simple way to say this without offending you, so bear with me. This is probably the one thing that most non-masons don't understand, even those with perfectly good intentions:

Freemasons don't invite anyone to join. You must ask to become a member. Inviting is just not done - its a major taboo and completely disregards one of the pillars of masonic philosophy (that candidates seek masonry of their own free will and accord). In some jurisdictions they even have a tradition where a potential candidate must ask and be denied three times before being given a petition. Its not just a tradition thing either, its a practical impossibility. You can't just be "invited" and be initiated. You have to be voted on, your background investigated, and interviewed. At any time and at any point, it takes 1 freemason to halt everything and stop you from joining. And 99% of masons would be that 1 person if they saw any indication that you were "invited."

The only exception to this is people who are made "honorary" masons using the "make a mason by sight" powers that most Grand Masters have, but the number of times that power has been used could probably be counted on two hands. The only recent one I'm aware of is Ronald Reagen, and that was a long time ago. Then, such people are invited, as making people honorary masons by sight without their consent would be rather rude.

What people almost always mistake for invitations to become a member are instead invitations to take a tour of the lodge, come to a lodge dinner, or participate in some community event. You might be invited to learn more about the lodge and its members. If anyone ever "invites" you to join explicitly, they are almost certainly not a regular masonic body or the member in question has lost his mind. We have lots of fakemason groups that pretend to be real freemasons (why they do that is beyond me, it just isn't THAT special...).

I'm not trying to say you aren't being truthful about what you perceived whenever you thought this person invited you, but the two main possibilities is that it was a invitation to an event (not to join) or a non-masonic group that was trying to be fakemasons.

[stilicho]

lets throw the British Legion into the woo pot as well.

I am not a mason but have been to the local lodge with my friend who is, and my grandfather was also a mason.

People who get their knickers in a twist about them are seriously paranoid.

The Legion is a pretty good addition, fdf.

My guess is that neither CE nor JJ have ever been invited into a club where they got to imitate Groucho Marx and refuse to join.

I'd been in De Molay, only by accident, as a youth and it was only because everyone else on the high school debate club joined.

That's the thing. These clubs are for joiners. If you aren't a joiner there's little likelihood you'd have any interest in them. When you mature and have another "chance" you usually decline because you're doing other things for your community.

[stilicho]

Inviting is just not done - its a major taboo and completely disregards one of the pillars of masonic philosophy (that candidates seek masonry of their own free will and accord).

Sorta. It's like you shouldn't be invited to the Kiwanis or the Elks.

There are pillars and there are "pillars".

[LightinDarkness]

Sorta. It's like you shouldn't be invited to the Kiwanis or the Elks.

There are pillars and there are "pillars".

While there may be practical traditions beyond the Kiwanis or Elks not inviting, there are deeply philosophical reasons for freemasons not doing it.

Now, there are millions of freemasons and the fraternity has been around for hundreds of years. Someone has gotten invited at some point - just as people have gotten past our background checks and interviews. But this is in the minority. Most jurisdictions have language in their rituals inquiring whether a candidate comes of his own free will and accord, that he alone sought out the fraternity, has no mercenary motives, etc. It would be extraordinarily hard for a honest candidate to answer "yes" to such questions if he were invited. But I have no doubt many have - it just seems strange to me - to lie to your future "brothers" about something so basic.

Its just a personal irritant of mine because on the interwebs everyone LOVES to proclaim they were "invited" to the masons - almost as if by being "invited" they are proving their importance or something. (NOTE: Not at all saying the person I responded to meant it this way, I'm talking about some other posts I've seen on non-JREF boards).

Freemasonry is just a club, in many ways like the Elks and Kiwanas just a social club. Like those other social clubs, all its really seeking is to do better in the community. But there is a philosophical aspect to it that sets freemasonry apart. The philosophy isn't ground shattering by any means, but adherance to those philosophical principles are pretty strict by most members..which includes no invitations, ever.

[JihadJane]

Silly Jihad, there you go projecting on yourself again. Just because you'd never be found eligible based on immaturity doesn't mean your arch-enemies (those who dare use logic, reason, and critical thinking) would not.

Back on topic, sans troll(s):

I suppose here at JREF we are all woos too. We are a social club that promotes good things like logic and critical thinking - just like freemasonry (slightly different ideas, but things like believing in EQUALITY are the result of logic and critical thinking).

Clearly, we are woo. Someone inform Randi immediately.

Do you consider yourself one of my arch-enemies? Hee hee! I don't take anyone seriously who uses baby language to support their "critical thinking" .

(Post reported, BTW)


The only exception to this is people who are made "honorary" masons using the "make a mason by sight" powers that most Grand Masters have, but the number of times that power has been used could probably be counted on two hands. The only recent one I'm aware of is Ronald Reagen, and that was a long time ago.


What has Ronald Reagan got to do with equality?

Why was he invited to join the equality club?

:confused:

My grandfather was a freemason and his wife considered their activities to be the height of childish, self-indulgence! She had to wash and iron his garments afterwards.

[DC]

I was invited to a lodge by a guy I used to work with about 6 years ago but my mum had told me that secret societies were bad so I said no. I sometimes wonder how different my life would be had I said yes:confused:

the only "Secret society" i know that has a day of open doors (no clue how that is called in english )

http://www.freimaurerei.de/fileadmin/user_upload/distrikte/hamburg/Jenisch-Flyer-Freimaurerei.pdf

[Squidgy]

This is going to be long but I'm not sure of a simple way to say this without offending you, so bear with me. This is probably the one thing that most non-masons don't understand, even those with perfectly good intentions:

Freemasons don't invite anyone to join. You must ask to become a member. Inviting is just not done - its a major taboo and completely disregards one of the pillars of masonic philosophy (that candidates seek masonry of their own free will and accord). In some jurisdictions they even have a tradition where a potential candidate must ask and be denied three times before being given a petition. Its not just a tradition thing either, its a practical impossibility. You can't just be "invited" and be initiated. You have to be voted on, your background investigated, and interviewed. At any time and at any point, it takes 1 freemason to halt everything and stop you from joining. And 99% of masons would be that 1 person if they saw any indication that you were "invited."

The only exception to this is people who are made "honorary" masons using the "make a mason by sight" powers that most Grand Masters have, but the number of times that power has been used could probably be counted on two hands. The only recent one I'm aware of is Ronald Reagen, and that was a long time ago. Then, such people are invited, as making people honorary masons by sight without their consent would be rather rude.

What people almost always mistake for invitations to become a member are instead invitations to take a tour of the lodge, come to a lodge dinner, or participate in some community event. You might be invited to learn more about the lodge and its members. If anyone ever "invites" you to join explicitly, they are almost certainly not a regular masonic body or the member in question has lost his mind. We have lots of fakemason groups that pretend to be real freemasons (why they do that is beyond me, it just isn't THAT special...).

I'm not trying to say you aren't being truthful about what you perceived whenever you thought this person invited you, but the two main possibilities is that it was a invitation to an event (not to join) or a non-masonic group that was trying to be fakemasons.
I'm not at all offended. I don't know anything about freemasonry, I am the first to admit it.
It was a long time ago so I don't remember the details of the conversation.
My friend was a former RAF officer and we became quite good friends. Using the word 'invite' was just a simple way of relaying what he said. He did tell me about nominations and votes etc. Anyway, point is he wanted to give me a shot at becoming a freemason.
I don't dwell on it much, just think maybe I should have given it a shot.

[lionking]

FREEMASONARY IS WOO!!!!


cya
I am not a freemason, but if this is the best critique you can come up with it's a good thing you have seemingly left the thread.

[DC]

why is Freemasonery woo?
what do they belive or promote?

[JihadJane]

why is Freemasonery woo?
what do they belive or promote?

Are a belief in a Supreme Being and in the immortality of the soul still requirements for membership?

[DC]

Are a belief in a Supreme Being and in the immortality of the soul still requirements for membership?

i got told no by a freemason, but actually i dont know.

[Checkmite]

Wow, there's more of us than I thought..



What in the world? You ask me for a simple answer and I give it to you, then you claim its superficial?

Yeah, that was pretty funny.

"Just give me a couple of sentences."

...

"...wait, that's it? Oh, I suppose I'm too STUPID for more than a couple of sentences, HUH?"

[Stellafane]

Wow, there's more of us than I thought...

OK, just to set the record straight once and for all: You guys do rule the world, right?


(I, for one, would welcome our Freemason overlords.)

[Childlike Empress]

I am not a freemason, but if this is the best critique you can come up with it's a good thing you have seemingly left the thread.


I didn't ask for this thread. Read answer #1 which contains the post leading to LightinDarkness starting this thread. Notice the following:


It was an attack on LightInDarkness, not Freemasonary. It's in AAH now - I received a deserved yellow card for it. It's way too hot here the whole week.
My opinion on Freemasonary is low.
I don't think they rule anything.

So, "Childlike Empress' Thread on freemasonary" shouldn't exist in the first place, because i'm not very interested in discussing it, but as it exists, it should be moved to "Religion and Philosophy".

Check?

[LightinDarkness]

Do you consider yourself one of my arch-enemies? Hee hee! I don't take anyone seriously who uses baby language to support their "critical thinking" .

(Post reported, BTW)

Your posts have been reported for trolling, BTW. :)

I am happy to see you are so obsessed with me Jihad, but its not healthy. I know critical thinking isn't something you are familiar with, but you really should pick it up and learn about it.



What has Ronald Reagan got to do with equality?

Who said he was made a honorary mason only due to his feelings on merit based equality? Freemasonry is about more things that, including service to your community - which Ronald Reagen was a big proponent of at the local level.


My grandfather was a freemason and his wife considered their activities to be the height of childish, self-indulgence! She had to wash and iron his garments afterwards.

Sure he was. I'm sure his wife based her opinions on the same sources you use to come to your conclusions, so I really don't care.

[LightinDarkness]

I didn't ask for this thread. Read answer #1 which contains the post leading to LightinDarkness starting this thread. Notice the following:


It was an attack on LightInDarkness, not Freemasonary. It's in AAH now - I received a deserved yellow card for it. It's way too hot here the whole week.
My opinion on Freemasonary is low.
I don't think they rule anything.

So, "Childlike Empress' Thread on freemasonary" shouldn't exist in the first place, because i'm not very interested in discussing it, but as it exists, it should be moved to "Religion and Philosophy".

Check?

Well, Childlike Empress is now admitting that my other thread was completely derailed and trolled on not because of any genuine interest on freemasonry, but based on a purely personal attack which had no merit.

However, you have still made claims about freemasonry which are false, and which are made using the same logic as other conspiracy theorists. Indeed, our resident woos like Jihad have even joined to defend you and troll me. So actually it should stay in the conspiracy theory section, and it should remain here.

However, if you'd stop bumping it, it would go to the bottom of the page.

[LightinDarkness]

why is Freemasonery woo?
what do they belive or promote?

Freemasonry is not woo by even the most strict JREF standards, although with the diversity of members it has you will find those with woo beliefs. The fraternity is not woo, but there are some wooist freemasons just as woos make up every demographic in real life.

For most lodges there is a requirement that members believe in a Supreme Being, although some pretty important lodges (like the Grand Lodge of France) admit atheists. The "Supreme Being" doesn't have to be a God in any sense (although it is for some), I've met masons whose "supreme entity" was science. We don't really ask for details - if you can say that you put your faith in some sort of supreme entity it meets the requirement.

But the philosophy and point behind freemasonry is founded in enlightenment and the age of reason ideas. Equality, tolerance, separation of church and state (this is a particularly big issue for side orders like the Scottish Rite), community service, etc. Completely normal ideas now, but quite radical and heretical for their time.

[Bobert]

What is wrong with the Boy Scouts?
Greedy?

[LightinDarkness]

What is wrong with the Boy Scouts?
Greedy?

Must be those darn values again! :eye-poppi

[Bobert]

Yes that was an odd comment.
If you have ever been to a BS meeting then you would realize greed isn't even on the agenda.

[Squidgy]

For most lodges there is a requirement that members believe in a Supreme Being
I take it back, I'm glad I had n0thing to do with these wack jobs. My mum was right :covereyes

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I take it back, I'm glad I had n0thing to do with these wack jobs. My mum was right :covereyes


Umm... If you're trying to distance yourself from the woo, this isn't the way to go about it. Try reading to the end of that paragraph, at the very least, please.

[dropzone]

Lemme see if I have this straight:

I have to ask to become a Mason?

And, has been explained to me, the Masons are not really a Secret Organization, just one that keeps some stuff on the down low, apparently because it would seem silly to anyone born after 1865?

Finally, the Masons do not really control the world?

Please explain why I would want to join. I could be a nice guy who supports non-profit organizations, MERELY WHILE STAYING A LUTHERAN!

Kidz, you need to work on your marketing. Taking over the world = Cool. Helping handicapped kids may be TRIPLE-COOL, but it gets you no airtime. ;)

[dudalb]

If you think there is a lot of crapola about the Masons going around now, just wait until the new Dan Brown novel comes out.......

[1337m4n]

What is wrong with the Boy Scouts?

Oh god...the horror...oh god don't remind me of my traumatic experiences in the BSA...god no...

...

"Awesome bonfire guys!"

"I wonder what happens if I throw in this can of bugspray..."

DADDY WHY IS PATRICK ON FIRE???



:D

[dropzone]

So, "Childlike Empress' Thread on freemasonary" shouldn't exist in the first place, because i'm not very interested in discussing it, but as it exists, it should be moved to "Religion and Philosophy".(which means I shouldn't hit on her, right? ;) )

[dropzone]

Expanding on that: It is very easy to dismiss a post because its poster is not boring and mechanical. I am both, and know a cheap shot when I see one. I'd apologize, but I'm scarcely aware of correct behaviour, being a guy and all.

ETA= I won't be surprised is someone explains it for me.

[tsig]

(which means I shouldn't hit on her, right? ;) )

I think CE is a he.

[Checkmite]

If you think there is a lot of crapola about the Masons going around now, just wait until the new Dan Brown novel comes out.......

Ugh....don't remind me.

[Bobert]

I wonder if the Boy Scouts are out to take over the world? As usual CE makes a bizzare statement and wont respond. ......SHOCKING!