Sylvia Brown on LKL and John Edward on 20/20

[dimossi]

Jeez, what is this, Fraud Friday?

Sylvia Brown on Larry King Live tonight:

Larry King Live at 9:00 p.m. ET
on Friday, December 5, 2003

CNN Tonight – Sylvia Browne and the Afterlife!

Best-selling author and psychic Sylvia Browne says she can talk to departed loved ones in the afterlife. Whom would you like to reach? Sylvia Browne takes your calls!

Yeah, she takes your calls...but only if you are a credophile.... let's see how many skeptics can actually get past the screeners. :rolleyes:

-----------------

John Edward on 20/20 tonight (I received this from Michael Shermer via the E-Skeptic newsletter):

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/Living/John_Edward_031205-1.html

Tune in to ABC's 20/20 Friday night, December 5, to see Bill Ritter's piece on "crossing over" with John Edward. (Link above leads to article on the show.) They filmed at the studio where Crossing Over is taped, although there were restrictions imposed by the producers, of course. They also taped him doing readings on a small studio audience of their own that ABC culled from the folks waiting in line for "The View," so there were no plants or schills. Edward agreed to do the show because he has a new book out and his publisher encouraged him to do it. (He surely must know at this point that the ABC news department is not going to just throw him softballs like Larry King does--"Tell me John, what's it like in heaven? Do they get to eat?") I went to New York to review the tapes. Edward did not know I was involved.

Now this should be interesting. Go get 'em Shermer!

[Producer]

If one of us gets through, what is the best statement/question?

"James Randi has agreed to allow Larry King to be the escrow agent for Sylvia Browne psychic claims. Sylvia, are you up to the million-dollar challenge?"

[Barkhorn1x]

Originally posted by Producer
If one of us gets through, what is the best statement/question?

"James Randi has agreed to allow Larry King to be the escrow agent for Sylvia Browne psychic claims. Sylvia, are you up to the million-dollar challenge?"

That tack will ensure that you get booted quick. I would do the following;

"Yes, Syliva, I am trying to contact my departed [mother, wife, brother, son], etc? (You should be thinking of an actual departed loved one - to preserve YOUR intellectual honesty.)

When Sylvia starts her version of 20 questions - and you know she will - reply w/ your own questions like;
"Are you asking me or telling me?"
"Don't you know?"
"Do you have any SPECIFIC information on my loved one, like their NAME?"

If Sylvia does offer specific information - answer honestly but hold her to specifics - don't give her wriggle room. And, when she flat out misses, give it to her responses like;
"No, and I have no idea what you are referring to here."
"Hmm...sounds NOTHING like my [departed]."

Finally, if she tries to put the onus on you, bring her back to earth w/;
"Sylvia - you call yourself a physic -so give me some information that I can validate as actually being from [departed]."

Barkhorn.


"

[renata]

An astute caller already got her on LKL

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0305/16/lkl.00.html


KING: Oklahoma City, hello.
CALLER: Yes, Sylvia, 620 days on Larry's show, you agreed to take James Randy's $1 million paranormal challenge, and on a later show you even agreed to the specific terms of the test.
BROWNE: Yes, but let me tell you something. I also found out that he won't put it into escrow. He won't put the money into escrow.
CALLER: You agreed to the terms of the test.
BROWNE: No, not until he puts the money into escrow. I mean, why would I do it when the money can't be validated?
CALLER: Have you contacted James?
BROWNE: I don't want to contact him. I already know about this Russian person who the lawyer contacted and said he won't put it into escrow.
CALLER: OK, so you agreed 620 days ago to take his test.
BROWNE: I'm not going to do that -- I'm not going to do that if he doesn't have the money.
CALLER: If I can arrange for James to come up with the money, would you take the test?
KING: You said you would.
BROWNE: Yes, yes, I will. But if he won't come up with the other girl, why would he come up with me?
KING: If you come up with it, sir, she'll do it.
CALLER: And will you arrange for it, Larry?
KING: Sure.
CALLER: You got it.
KING: Be happy to do it.

Randi's commentary on it
http://www.randi.org/jr/053003.html
and here
http://www.randi.org/jr/052303.html

And caller's article on it, where he desrribes how he got on as well as gives a good summary of the Sylvia Browne challenge.
http://www.skepticreport.com/psychics/dodgeball.htm


Since then, Randi said he would put the money in escrow and asked Larry King to be the escrow agent
http://www.randi.org/jr/110703.html

Do people have the LKL call in number handy? I think if people try and call in, we should have some basic facts straight- money is in escrow, days since she accepted the challenge, get Larry King to agree to it, fact that she refuses delivery, etc

[Barkhorn1x]

Originally posted by renata
Do people have the LKL call in number handy? I think if people try and call in, we should have some basic facts straight- money is in escrow, days since she accepted the challenge, get Larry King to agree to it, fact that she refuses delivery, etc

Larry - that credulous bag of wind - has hardly been a help here and I very much doubt that he will change his tune.

Bottom Line:
Sylvia will NEVER contact Randi to be tested and Larry will not do ANYTHING to force the issue.

You don't have to be a psychic to figure this out.

Barkhorn.

[Clancie]

Posted by renata

I think if people try and call in, we should have some basic facts straight- money is in escrow....
renata,

re: facts. I'm not sure of the facts of that escrow part...is the money actually already -in- escrow? I thought Randi said he would -agree- to put it in escrow, just for Sylvia's test, if she would take the Challenge. But I didn't think it had already been placed there. Has it?

[renata]

Originally posted by Clancie

renata,

re: facts. I'm not sure of the facts of that escrow part...is the money actually already -in- escrow? I thought Randi said he would -agree- to put it in escrow, just for Sylvia's test, if she would take the Challenge. But I didn't think it had already been placed there. Has it?


Randi has agreed to put the money in escrow, check the commentary I linked to previously. He said on November 7th he asked Larry King to be the escrow agent, and if Larry King will not accept will ask Montel Williams, and if Montel will not accept appoint a trust company. So the money is on the way to escrow, and the last of her objections is gone.

http://www.randi.org/jr/110703.html

As I said last week, the very last obstacle to Sylvia Browne's acceptance of the JREF challenge — as she agreed to, so very long ago — has been deftly removed! Yes, last Monday I mailed this certified, self-explanatory letter to Larry King:

.........
Her latest excuse — made on your show — is that she now demands that the million dollars be put in escrow, to ensure that she receives the prize, a prize which she had previously rebuffed, saying that she was not interested in the money. This seems a strange turnabout, but though we previously believed that we would lose the interest on the account if it were put in escrow, and our rules specifically state that such considerations will not be made for any applicant, in the case of Ms. Sylvia Browne, we have decided to make an exception. We have consulted Goldman-Sachs, and they now inform us that by means of a special dispensation, we will be able to do this without any loss of income. This should please Ms. Browne, since there is now no impediment in the way of her proceeding with the accepting of the test procedure.
....

In the 970 days since Sylvia Browne agreed, on "Larry King Live," to be tested by this Foundation, she has not contacted us. You had stated, on your May 16th show, that you would be happy to "arrange" for Ms. Browne to be informed on this matter. Since you, Mr. King, may be better able to reach this person, I would ask that you inform her of this latest development, so that she will hasten to fulfill her previous agreement to be tested.

There is only one thing missing in this picture: Goldman-Sachs requires, as part of the process of putting the money in escrow, that we find a person to act as "escrow agent" for the million dollars prize money. That simply means that the agent would have complete control over the distribution of the prize money following the test of Ms. Browne's claim. Since Ms. Browne apparently trusts you, Mr. King, and would have good reason to believe that you would fairly and properly handle this function as "escrow agent," I am asking you if you would serve in that capacity. This would be for a very limited time, of course, from the moment that Ms. Browne accepts the fulfillment of her demand until the test has been done and the answer has been arrived at. I ask you to please inform me concerning your willingness in this matter.

.....

Note: with the exception of the "special considerations" clause mentioned above, the rules on the JREF million-dollar challenge, as stated on our web page, will be in effect if and when Sylvia Browne agrees that all of her demands have been met, and that she will proceed with the test.

....

I intend to allow two weeks to pass before concluding that Mr. King declines to serve as the escrow agent in this matter, or just does not respond to this request. In that case, I will make the same offer to Montel Williams. Should both of these gentlemen show no interest in serving in that capacity, I will assign the task to a trust company that specializes in serving thus.
....

In any case, we have now met each and every objection made by Sylvia Browne, except that she does not like me.

[Clancie]

Posted by renata

Randi has agreed to put the money in escrow, check the commentary I linked to previously. He said on November 7th he asked Larry King to be the escrow agent, and if Larry King will not accept will ask Montel Williams, and if Montel will not accept appoint a trust company. So the money is on the way to escrow, and the last of her objections is gone.
Yes, renata, I've read this, too.

My question was about your statement that "money is in escrow". I really don't think that it is. Is it?

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Clancie

Yes, renata, I've read this, too.

My question was about your statement that "money is in escrow". I really don't think that it is. Is it?

Hi Clancie,

I tried to send you a pm but your mailbox is full again :(

[renata]

Clancie, a moreaccurate statement would be that Randi has decided to put money in escrow. I understood the situation to depend on whether Larry King will agree to function as the escrow agent, or whether they will have to go to Montel, or have to wait more and go to a trust company instead. Therefore my original comment was inaccurate, I should have said "Randi has agreed to put the money in escrow and is awaiting agreement from Larry King to serve as escrow agent". It seems the only hold up to be on Larry King's part at this point. Good thing I provided the link to Randi's commentary, so everyone could check his words for himself! :)



Thanscript of todays appearance
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0312/05/lkl.00.html

Some usual cold reading stuff, just like JVP, JE and others.

A very interesting reading, though was this

CALLER: I'd like to ask about my mother. We had some unresolved issues.
BROWNE: Yes. But I don't know if you could have had any resolved issues with your mother because she was so very difficult to deal with. And I'm not saying that to be cruel. So, you see, the thing that you got to realize is when somebody goes to the other side, everything is OK.
CALLER: But she's -- you can definitely see her on the other side?
BROWNE: Yes. Little. She's little.
CALLER: Yes, well, the last time I spoke to her, she was alive.
BROWNE: Yes, but see, I don't -- she's not alive now.
CALLER: She's dead.
BROWNE: Yes.
CALLER: You're telling me my mother has died?
BROWNE: Yes.
CALLER: You're sure about this?
BROWNE: I'm positive.
CALLER: OK. Well, I'll have to get back to you after I've called her.
BROWNE: All right.
CALLER: Thank you.
KING: OK, now, what -- she doesn't know, hasn't heard from her mother.
BROWNE: No.
KING: And she's trying to reach her, hasn't heard from her.
BROWNE: That's right.
KING: You saw her as gone.
BROWNE: That's right.
KING: OK. And you were truthful enough to say that.
BROWNE: Oh, I have to.

Of course there will never be a follow up, so we will never know if the mother of the caller is alive or dead...but- the callousness and the cruelty of this woman is extraordinary.

And for height of sad ridiculousness

CALLER: I this Sylvia?
BROWNE: Yes, it is.
CALLER: Yes, sweet heart. I have just two questions I want to ask you. My mother passed away seven years ago and my brother died two years ago. I want to find out if they're together.
And also, I want to find out if my mother is still with me. My spirit. Because I don't feel her like I did before. I used to feel her around me a lot. Lately I don't.
BROWNE: You know, I did the same thing with my father who I adored. As the time goes on, they're still with you, but I don't know how to explain it to you -- but they ascend to a higher level so it's harder for them to get in. In your case, they send butterflies and birds around so you have -- and this isn't the time around to have birds around but you'll get birds around.
CALLER: Birds?
BROWNE: Birds.
CALLER: That's funny. I've been seeing birds every day.
BROWNE: Yes.
CALLER: In the morning.
BROWNE: This isn't a time of year to see them.
CALLER: And I do feel -- my phone sings -- rings every so often.
BROWNE: You'll get a gardenia or a rose scent. You'll walk in the room and say, who's wearing the perfume.
CALLER: Really?
BROWNE: Yes.
CALLER: My mother, does she know when I'm lighting a candle, is she there?
BROWNE: Yes. Because you seem to be also lighting it by a picture.


Yes, birds and phone ringing...how unusual. Amazing.

And for amusement value of when cold readers fail. Notice not just the spectacular miss, the attempt to make it fit, but also the attempt to smoothly transition into something entirely different. We saw the same techniques with JE and JVP on LKL. Classic.

CALLER: I lost my dad in May of 2002. And I was just wondering if you see him or if he's OK or if he's around...
BROWNE: Why does he keep pointing to his head?
CALLER: His -- his head? Well, he -- I don't know.
BROWNE: I don't know either, but he keeps pointing to his head. So something must have been going on with his head.
CALLER: He had cirrhosis of the liver.
BROWNE: Yeah, but I think what finally took him -- here we go again with the stroke. Because he said before he died, he swelled up.
CALLER: Yeah.
BROWNE: And he said his actual death was by a stroke. But that's neither here nor there. What does he keep talking about someone rubbing his hand?
CALLER: When he was sick?
BROWNE: Yes.
CALLER: My mom would sit by the bed and hold his hand.
BROWNE: Yeah. And he says he felt that.
CALLER: And does -- I mean, is he still around?
BROWNE: Oh, yeah. He's still around. In fact, he comes around and he does something strange with clocks or watches.
CALLER: Clocks or watches?
BROWNE: Yeah.
KING: Change the time or something?
BROWNE: Yeah. Change the time, stop the time, whatever.



And answering the questions of where all spirits are

BROWNE: They're three feet up off the ground. On this topography, they exist with us. We just can't see them because they go at a higher vibration than we do. See, we're the world of the anti-matter. This is transient. We're all -- like you said, we're all going to die. Our houses are going to go away. Our cars get old. We get old. That goes. That stays. That's the eternal.

Oh, and they are all 30, no matter what age they died. Hilarious...


Anyway, no real skepticism, no skeptical callers.

Barkhorn, I said it before- I think Larry King described himself as an atheist before. However, his job is a soft ball interviewer of celebrities and other pop culture figures. He never asks hard questions, and as a results he gets top rated guests, and his show is popular. Sadly, people like to watch trash like that- Sylvia Browne, John Edward, celebrities, lawyers, and other crap he has. So his own beliefs don't matter- his job is to get ratings for CNN, and that is what he does. Do I think he buys into this crap? Sometimes I do, sometimes I do not, I simply don't know. But I never expected more from him or any other media whore. Investigative journalism is not his shtick. However, there are shows that do work on debunking people. I think it is no surprise psychics go on LKL in much higher frequencies than they go on investigative shows. I was, frankly, stunned to hear JE went on 20/20. ABC had Ian Rowland on a few months back, and ABC also did a skeptical segment with Van Praagh a few years back- it seemed to me that division had a skeptical bent, and I did not expect to see JE on it. Of course, I have not yet seen the show, but as they will have Shermer on it, is evidence enough of their skepticism.

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

That's what they want you to think!