WTC towers question - little help here

[jaydeehess]

There are a few picturers of the exterior cladding section of the tower 1 with an aircraft tire embedded in it. This ended up near St.Nicholas Church on West Street.

I have a truther telling me that this is a picture of a perimeter column tree with a tire stuck in it and he is saying(I paraphrase here)
" That can't be since none of the pictures show that any perimeter columns came off the tower until it collapsed, so obviously the picture is 'photoshopped' "

I need to show him the difference between the exterior decorative cladding and actual perimeter column trees. anyone know of good pics to illustrate this?

[Brainster]

I think that is a full section of the exterior column tree. See this photo (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/7-70_tire-embedded-wtc1-panel.jpg/7-70_tire-embedded-wtc1-panel-full.jpg).

[jaydeehess]

I think that is a full section of the exterior column tree. See this photo (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/7-70_tire-embedded-wtc1-panel.jpg/7-70_tire-embedded-wtc1-panel-full.jpg).

No, that's one of the photos he is pointing to.
It is 690 feet from WTC 1 where it comes from.
AFAIK none of the column trees came off as a result of the impact but the columns also have the panels on the outside of them that are not structural and it is that which I believe that this is a picture of.

That pic was taken before either tower collapsed.

[Grizzly Bear]

No, that's one of the photos he is pointing to.
It is 690 feet from WTC 1 where it comes from.
AFAIK none of the column trees came off as a result of the impact but the columns a so have the panels on the outside of them that are not structural and it is that which I believe that this is a picture of.

That pic was taken before either tower collapsed.
If you're referring to the aluminum cladding this might be helpful:

http://americanhistory.si.edu/SEPTEMBER11/collection/record.asp?ID=104

Although I haven't seen any pics yet of the individual panels in their pristine condition

[sylvan8798]

No, that's one of the photos he is pointing to.
It is 690 feet from WTC 1 where it comes from.
AFAIK none of the column trees came off as a result of the impact but the columns also have the panels on the outside of them that are not structural and it is that which I believe that this is a picture of.

That pic was taken before either tower collapsed.

This is another view of it: http://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/WTC767images/panel+wheel.jpg

Definitely perimeter columns, which are laying with the interior face up, so they would it seems have come off of the South side of WTC 1.

Not the best shot, but clearly there is a hole in the south face of tower 1 at this point. Besides, one of the engines went out the south side and into the marriott pool.

http://nomoregames.net/911/morgan_booted/WTC2_175.png

[phunk]

That is definitely columns, not cladding.

[Brainster]

No, that's one of the photos he is pointing to.
It is 690 feet from WTC 1 where it comes from.
AFAIK none of the column trees came off as a result of the impact but the columns also have the panels on the outside of them that are not structural and it is that which I believe that this is a picture of.

That pic was taken before either tower collapsed.

The 690 feet isn't a big deal; all it means is that the wheel and everything attached to it had to be moving about 55 miles per hour when it detached from the building.

[parky76]

"no planers" are very very stupid people. clearly the retarded uncle of the truth movement.

[parky76]

double post. sorry.

[triforcharity]

I can't find it, but if anyone knows where to find the picture of the firefighter standing on the roof of some building, with the section of plane with the windows clearly showing, there is TONS of aluminum cladding.

Give me a sec, I'll find it.

[Reactor drone]

Definitely looks like a steel wall panel section,they were built in three column wide sections joined by three spandrels all of which are visible in the photo Brainster posted.


It would be nice to have a close up of the bolt holes to see how the bolts failed,the holes look pretty stretched out of shape in that pic(hardly surprising :) )

[Grizzly Bear]

Dunno why it took me several minutes to understand the post in the OP (before I made my first post here), but it seems the individual jaydeehess is speaking to doesn't know the difference between the cladding and the columns. Would I be correct in saying that jay?

[Norseman]

Although I haven't seen any pics yet of the individual panels in their pristine condition

See figure 2-17 in NIST NCSTAR 1-1 (http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/).

[Norseman]

There are a few picturers of the exterior cladding section of the tower 1 with an aircraft tire embedded in it. This ended up near St.Nicholas Church on West Street.

I have a truther telling me that this is a picture of a perimeter column tree with a tire stuck in it and he is saying(I paraphrase here)
" That can't be since none of the pictures show that any perimeter columns came off the tower until it collapsed, so obviously the picture is 'photoshopped' "

I need to show him the difference between the exterior decorative cladding and actual perimeter column trees. anyone know of good pics to illustrate this?

You should take a look at Figure 6-16 with the corresponding text in NIST NCSTAR 1-5A chap 1-8 (http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/).

ETA
This FEMA picture illustrates the difference between the exterior decorative cladding and the actual perimeter column trees very well:
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photolibrary/photo_details.do?id=3883

But as pointed out by several fellow debunkers already and NIST, the wheel was embedded in a perimeter column tree. Hope this helps.

[Grizzly Bear]

See figure 2-17 in NIST NCSTAR 1-1.

Ah thank you.... I don't think I have to tell you I should be reading more of hat report... ;)

I'll have a look once I download it.

[sylvan8798]

Definitely looks like a steel wall panel section,they were built in three column wide sections joined by three spandrels all of which are visible in the photo Brainster posted.


It would be nice to have a close up of the bolt holes to see how the bolts failed,the holes look pretty stretched out of shape in that pic(hardly surprising :) )

The holes in the angles were manufactured in that "stretched out" shape. It is to allow for a small amount of horizontal movement of the bolts as the building sways, expands, contracts, etc. You want to allow for a little play in the connections.

[Reactor drone]

The holes in the angles were manufactured in that "stretched out" shape. It is to allow for a small amount of horizontal movement of the bolts as the building sways, expands, contracts, etc. You want to allow for a little play in the connections.

Yeah I wasn't sure how much play they'd put in to cover expansion and manufacturing tolerances.

It's a shame there aren't any clear photos of the south side damage to show exactly where the panel came from but the water pipe attached to it and the impact modelling give a reasonable indication of where it's from.