RFID Chip

[Squidgy]

So, the rfid chip. Is this really planned to be put into humans? We know it exists for chipping pets etc. But will we be forced to have it at some point?
I have seen Unsecured Coins hoax about the chip(which was genius btw) and how it proved Alex Jones to be a fearmongering sensationalist...yet again.
Anyone know the official stance on these chips? Links would be appreciated.

[brodski]

Are you asking us to produce links which show the absence of a government (which government) plan to chip the population?

What would such a link look like?

[Squidgy]

Are you asking us to produce links which show the absence of a government (which government) plan to chip the population?

What would such a link look like?
Yes.

If there is no evidence then so be it. Just wanted to know cos it's mentioned in conspiracy theories. Hence the thread in this part of the forum.

[Alareth]

Ask Unsecured Coins about his chip implant ;)

(It was Unsecured Coins wasn't it?)

[Squidgy]

Ask Unsecured Coins about his chip implant ;)

(It was Unsecured Coins wasn't it?)
Did you even read my original post?

[TjW]

If you're interested, Google "Digital Angel" and "Verichip".
I believe they've had a 125 kHz RFID chip approved for implantation in humans since 2002 or so.
So far, people seem to be staying away in droves.
I don't have any idea what the government has planned.

[Squidgy]

Applications of our products include identification and monitoring of pets and fish with our implantable RFID microchips, identification of livestock with our ear tags, GPS based search and rescue beacons for aircraft, ships, boats, and individuals.

Well we have established that this is available to 'individuals' who want it.

[Lanzy]

This is also stupid.

[Squidgy]

This is also stupid.
Elaborate please?

[Horatius]

Are you asking us to produce links which show the absence of a government (which government) plan to chip the population?

What would such a link look like?

Yes.

If there is no evidence then so be it. Just wanted to know cos it's mentioned in conspiracy theories. Hence the thread in this part of the forum.

Well we have established that this is available to 'individuals' who want it.


You're new at this, so I'll explain.


It's the people who make positive claims who have to provide the evidence, since it's impossible to provide evidence that a program doesn't exist.

Think about it - do you expect the Government (or whoever) to go out of their way to say they don't plan to chip everybody in the county?


"RFID Chips exist" - positive claim, easy to prove.

"RFID Chips exist that can be implanted in humans" - positive claim, easy to prove.

"RFID Chips exist that can be implanted in humans, and the government plans to force us to use them" - positive claim, let those who make the claim prove it.

"RFID Chips exist that can be implanted in humans, and the government has no plans to force us to use them" - negative claim. Should we show every document ever written by the government, and show that no where is such a plan mentioned? How else would we show that no government agency anywhere has ever had such a plan?

[Horatius]

This is also stupid.



I wouldn't say stupid, just ignorant.

[Squidgy]

I think ignorant is a tad harsh. I have been following conspiracy theories for a while and now I am trying to eliminate the BS that go's with them.
If you don't have a constructive answer don't reply please. A straight out insult is a waste of yours and my time.

[Horatius]

I think ignorant is a tad harsh. I have been following conspiracy theories for a while and now I am trying to eliminate the BS that go's with them.
If you don't have a constructive answer don't reply please. A straight out insult is a waste of yours and my time.



Do you know the difference between stupidity and ignorance? Ignorance can be cured.

It's clear that you were/are ignorant of the difference between a positive claim and a negative claim. That's not an insult, it's just a fact.

Now, if I was to say you were being aggressively ignorant, that would be an insult.

[Squidgy]

How about staying on topic?

[Horatius]

If you don't have a constructive answer don't reply please. A straight out insult is a waste of yours and my time.

How about staying on topic?



How about you read all the responses, and not just the ones that annoy you?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4873267#post4873267

[Squidgy]

How about you read all the responses, and not just the ones that annoy you?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4873267#post4873267
I do apologise, I missed your earlier post. Sorry Horatius.

[Horatius]

Fair enough.

[Thunder]

There is no evil government plan to have all humans implanted with RFID chips.

now go out and play.

[Gaspode]

Derail moved to AAH (http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=58).

Back on topic please.

[Red3]

I'd like someone to give me one good reason why THEY should want to chip everyone?

[Squidgy]

I'd like someone to give me one good reason why THEY should want to chip everyone?
In popular conspiracy theories about the chip, the motivation is to remove cash from society and use the chip as a cash card style device. The worries of truthers are that the chip can be de-activated as and when the gubment want to disconnect one from society.
Also there are a lot of religious nuts who compare the chip to the mark of the beast.

I request to the moderators of this forum not to remove the following passages. I am in no way trying to peddle religious beliefs. I am just trying to demonstrate the various woo around the RFID Chip/verichip. Thank you.

Book of revelations chapter 13:
16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

[tsig]

I'd like someone to give me one good reason why THEY should want to chip everyone?

Tighter inventory control?:p

[Red3]

Hi Squidgy,

Yeah I know the back story of the "truth movement" version but why would the gvmnt in reality want to chip everyone? That was my point... Wouldn't it be pretty pointless and expensive? I can see where it might be advantageous to chip criminals or soldiers for ex. but why everyone else? And to what end? Why would they need to have ultimate control over a person? As for the cashless society that will happen anyway...It's not much different from having cash; after all that's just a progression from lugging bags of gold around.

[Squidgy]

Hi Squidgy,

Yeah I know the back story of the "truth movement" version but why would the gvmnt in reality want to chip everyone? That was my point... Wouldn't it be pretty pointless and expensive? I can see where it might be advantageous to chip criminals or soldiers for ex. but why everyone else? And to what end? Why would they need to have ultimate control over a person? As for the cashless society that will happen anyway...It's not much different from having cash; after all that's just a progression from lugging bags of gold around.
I agree, it would be costly and probably not very efficient. But saying a cashless society is inevitable, is this not a plausible way to do it?
I have to say, if I was a military man I would welcome some sort of tag so I could be found if taken hostage.

[Sabrina]

Why would we need to implant them, though? Why not just place it into an earring or a necklace or something? I'm a little curious about the implantation myself, but more in the sense of why would it be necessary? Why not just make it a part of someone's identification card?

For example; the military and certain government civilians use a card known as a Common Access Card (I have one myself; it's my military ID; we also refer to it (redundantly) as a CAC card). The card contains a small computer chip that records certain vital statistics about me, including my credentials so I'm able to log on to whatever computer network I'm registered to. The computer chip also lists my personal stats, including blood type, home of record, religious affiliation, etc; the sort of thing that you typically see on a soldier's dog tags or can find out relatively easily anyway. Why not make THAT the quote-unquote "RFID chip" that the "ebil guvmint" wants to track everyone with? Surely it's not that difficult to ensure that everyone in the country gets an ID card, especially if that becomes the only way to conduct business. Why implantation? If someone could explain the whole "implantation" idea to me, I'd surely be grateful; until then, I'll stay skeptical of the whole idea, thanks.

[T.A.M.]

I have often thought about why some form of chip has not been suggested for children. A simple identification chip, so that their location could be determined if they went missing or kidnapped.

Then, thinking it through, I realized that it would be riddled with issues, both social and physical, as well as criminal.

I think this is why having such a wide scale enforced implementation of RFID chips in the general populus would not be feasible.

TAM:)

[Red3]

I agree, it would be costly and probably not very efficient. But saying a cashless society is inevitable, is this not a plausible way to do it?

Something akin to a credit card would be a lot less controversial! Maybe they will use rfid for it in the future,although it's doubtful...What if it breaks or goes walkabout? It still doesn't mean we're all gonna be forced into it by the powers that be as the C.Tists suggest though.

They wouldn't need to force people into it anyway saying that...Bring out a couple of snazzy ads backed by one or two celebs and bob's yer uncle, everyone'll want one.


I have to say, if I was a military man I would welcome some sort of tag so I could be found if taken hostage.

Yeah exactly; the rfid chip has plenty of real life applications re: implanting, this being one of 'em. The child example of TAM's being another, although like he more or less said, that has moral implications.

[Red3]

Why would we need to implant them, though? Why not just place it into an earring or a necklace or something? I'm a little curious about the implantation myself, but more in the sense of why would it be necessary? Why not just make it a part of someone's identification card?

The only possible benefit would be the crime angle, ie: it's harder to steal & use etc. But that'd soon be overcome.

[Elizabeth I]

I have often thought about why some form of chip has not been suggested for children. A simple identification chip, so that their location could be determined if they went missing or kidnapped.

Then, thinking it through, I realized that it would be riddled with issues, both social and physical, as well as criminal.

I think this is why having such a wide scale enforced implementation of RFID chips in the general populus would not be feasible.

TAM:)

Still looking for the link, but several years ago I read an article in my local newspaper about a few wealthy parents having their children chipped for this reason. (Of course, nothing there about a government-mandated program.)

[Minadin]

I saw a documentary, or perhaps a news story, about a computer scientist who was developing a chip like this, and had already implanted himself with a prototype. The computers in his house tracked him with it while he was in the house or nearby and did things like turned the lights on and off, unlocked exterior doors remotely, and that sort of thing.

But, I don't remember where I saw it or precisely when; it was probably a few years ago.

[JoeyDonuts]

This thing is riddled with so many ethical issues, it's highly unlikely that any modern society (save perhaps N.K.) would even think about making RFID implants mandatory.

[INRM]

JoeyDonuts,

Well, if the government first chipped sex-offenders, it might be accepted because "hey sex offenders are scum" right? Also chipping military personnel for the purpose of identifying remains might be accepted too, even if it wasn't for that purpose but for tracking, and plus military personnel can't say no right? Then from sex offenders it could graduate to other criminals, first violent ones, then eventually to all of 'em. And regarding military personnel, if ever some kind of mandatory military service or some kind of civilian national security force, it could progress to them too which would include everybody

Now I'm not saying this is guaranteed to happen, but if it does it wouldn't happen at once, as you said people would have a cow, it would happen in stages, first on people who can't say no, and on undesirable and unpopular members of society, eventually it would spread until eventually to everybody. It would be slow and insidious.


INRM

[Red3]

JoeyDonuts,

Well, if the government first chipped sex-offenders, it might be accepted because hey sex offenders are scum. Also chipping military personnel for the purpose of identifying remains might be accepted too, plus military personnel can't say no right? Then from sex offenders it could graduate to other criminals, first violent ones, then eventually to all of 'em.

And regarding military personnel, if ever some kind of mandatory military service or some kind of civilian national security force, it could progress to them too which would include everybody.

That's exactly how conspiracy theories are born; come up with the worst case scenario and run as far as you can with it.


Now I'm not saying this is guaranteed to happen, but if it does it wouldn't happen at once, as you said people would have a cow, it would happen in stages, slowly and insidiously.


I believe David Icke calls it the totalitarian tiptoe ;)

[Sabrina]

JoeyDonuts,

Well, if the government first chipped sex-offenders, it might be accepted because "hey sex offenders are scum" right? Also chipping military personnel for the purpose of identifying remains might be accepted too, even if it wasn't for that purpose but for tracking, and plus military personnel can't say no right? Then from sex offenders it could graduate to other criminals, first violent ones, then eventually to all of 'em. And regarding military personnel, if ever some kind of mandatory military service or some kind of civilian national security force, it could progress to them too which would include everybody

Now I'm not saying this is guaranteed to happen, but if it does it wouldn't happen at once, as you said people would have a cow, it would happen in stages, first on people who can't say no, and on undesirable and unpopular members of society, eventually it would spread until eventually to everybody. It would be slow and insidious.


INRM

Um, no. This be not true.

A military member has the right to refuse an unlawful order; that's regulation. And right now, there is nothing that says any soldier is REQUIRED to submit to such a thing. No law, no regulation, nothing.

Get the notion of "military can't say no" RIGHT out of your head please. It's stated specifically in the enlistment oath that "I will obey the LAWFUL orders of my superiors"; it says NOTHING about having to say yes to every little whim that pops into a superior's head.

Yeesh, if that were the case, I'd've never joined in the first place.

[T.A.M.]

JoeyDonuts,

Well, if the government first chipped sex-offenders, it might be accepted because "hey sex offenders are scum" right? Also chipping military personnel for the purpose of identifying remains might be accepted too, even if it wasn't for that purpose but for tracking, and plus military personnel can't say no right? Then from sex offenders it could graduate to other criminals, first violent ones, then eventually to all of 'em. And regarding military personnel, if ever some kind of mandatory military service or some kind of civilian national security force, it could progress to them too which would include everybody

Now I'm not saying this is guaranteed to happen, but if it does it wouldn't happen at once, as you said people would have a cow, it would happen in stages, first on people who can't say no, and on undesirable and unpopular members of society, eventually it would spread until eventually to everybody. It would be slow and insidious.


INRM

oh my, oh my.

1. Sex Offenders...yah, not such a bad idea as they are scum.
2. Do you not think their would be strict guidelines for this, when and if it did pass? For instance, you have it implanted for the first 5 years post sentence, and then if no further incarcerations, you have it removed.
3. Military personnel, yah, not a bad idea either. A VOLUNTEER program where you have one inserted if you like. Once again, we are talking about LOCATING DEVICES!!!!
4. Once again, there would be strict rules in place, so that your chip was removed upon discharge/retirement.
5. Your "include everybody" scenario is just foolish. If you think such things are gonna happen, even remotely, go back to reading sci-fi novels and watching the matrix.

TAM:)

[TjW]

oh my, oh my.

1. Sex Offenders...yah, not such a bad idea as they are scum.
2. Do you not think their would be strict guidelines for this, when and if it did pass? For instance, you have it implanted for the first 5 years post sentence, and then if no further incarcerations, you have it removed.
3. Military personnel, yah, not a bad idea either. A VOLUNTEER program where you have one inserted if you like. Once again, we are talking about LOCATING DEVICES!!!!
4. Once again, there would be strict rules in place, so that your chip was removed upon discharge/retirement.
5. Your "include everybody" scenario is just foolish. If you think such things are gonna happen, even remotely, go back to reading sci-fi novels and watching the matrix.

TAM:)
My bolding. No we're not, if we're talking about the VeriChip. It holds a few hundred bits (not bytes, bits) of information. It's passive, meaning it's powered by the interrogating device. It doesn't really "send out" a signal. It modulates by absorbing more or less of the carrier produced by the interrogator. Commercially-available readers read them at two or three inches. They're not going to be terribly useful as a tracking device.

[Hokulele]

Don't most RFID chips have severe range limitations as well? I suppose the government could chip people, and then wait and hope they wander by some chip reader...


ETA: And I should have read all the way to the end of the thread. TjW beat me by half an hour.

[JimBenArm]

The only question I have about RFID chips is do they taste better with Bacon and Horseradish or French Onion dip?

[Squidgy]

Don't most RFID chips have severe range limitations as well? I suppose the government could chip people, and then wait and hope they wander by some chip reader...


ETA: And I should have read all the way to the end of the thread. TjW beat me by half an hour.
I would be a tad miffed if I was chipped and couldn't get a GPS pinpoint when I needed it!
If I am forced to be chipped I will want to know that if I am deemed worthy of rescue they will find me. :D

[Horatius]

The only question I have about RFID chips is do they taste better with Bacon and Horseradish or French Onion dip?



Everything tastes better with French Onion. Seriously, try it. Rocks. Bits of paper. Asphalt shingles. Anything.

[Squidgy]

Everything tastes better with French Onion. Seriously, try it. Rocks. Bits of paper. Asphalt shingles. Anything.
Words of Wisom.

[JoeyDonuts]

Ugh. This smacks of pure, uncut, medical-grade, weaponized DUMB.

Military can't say no, eh? Tell that to the folks who successfully resisted the supposed "mandatory" anthrax vaccination.

Ignorance of Subject + Wild Imagination + Anti-Establishment Bias = Conspiracy Theory.

[Nosi]

oh my, oh my.

1. Sex Offenders...yah, not such a bad idea as they are scum.
2. Do you not think their would be strict guidelines for this, when and if it did pass? For instance, you have it implanted for the first 5 years post sentence, and then if no further incarcerations, you have it removed.
3. Military personnel, yah, not a bad idea either. A VOLUNTEER program where you have one inserted if you like. Once again, we are talking about LOCATING DEVICES!!!!
4. Once again, there would be strict rules in place, so that your chip was removed upon discharge/retirement.
5. Your "include everybody" scenario is just foolish. If you think such things are gonna happen, even remotely, go back to reading sci-fi novels and watching the matrix.

TAM:)

Err, I can think of a population that would be ahead of sex offenders on the chip list, and they are certainly not a vilified one. It is home cared for elderly patients who suffer dementia or Alzheimer's disease that tend to get themselves lost and are at risk of injury or harm as they wander about often in inhospitable climes. Think how much easier it would be if you could easily keep track of your elderly mother should she take it in her head to stroll alongside the freeway in a blizzard whilst your back was turned fixing coffee. Such patients can take off as fast as toddlers.:eye-poppi

[T.A.M.]

My bolding. No we're not, if we're talking about the VeriChip. It holds a few hundred bits (not bytes, bits) of information. It's passive, meaning it's powered by the interrogating device. It doesn't really "send out" a signal. It modulates by absorbing more or less of the carrier produced by the interrogator. Commercially-available readers read them at two or three inches. They're not going to be terribly useful as a tracking device.

I wasn't speaking of what they are currently using, but rather speculating as to what I would consider a good idea. A chip used for locating someone, would be a good idea for some military personnel.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

Err, I can think of a population that would be ahead of sex offenders on the chip list, and they are certainly not a vilified one. It is home cared for elderly patients who suffer dementia or Alzheimer's disease that tend to get themselves lost and are at risk of injury or harm as they wander about often in inhospitable climes. Think how much easier it would be if you could easily keep track of your elderly mother should she take it in her head to stroll alongside the freeway in a blizzard whilst your back was turned fixing coffee. Such patients can take off as fast as toddlers.:eye-poppi

agreed, and I hadn't thought of it...good idea. Once again, riddled with legal/personal freedom issues...but a good idea in theory.

TAM:)

[Minadin]

A chip for locating military people that actively broadcast some kind of signal seems like it might sometimes be unproductive from a tactical perspective.

[richardm]

I saw a documentary, or perhaps a news story, about a computer scientist who was developing a chip like this, and had already implanted himself with a prototype. The computers in his house tracked him with it while he was in the house or nearby and did things like turned the lights on and off, unlocked exterior doors remotely, and that sort of thing.

But, I don't remember where I saw it or precisely when; it was probably a few years ago.

Kevin Warwick (http://www.kevinwarwick.com/)

There is a nightclub in Barcelona (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3697940.stm) that will implant you with a chip that gives you access to VIP areas of the club and which you can use to buy drinks. Quite useful in a place where beachware is the norm. Why not as a necklace or a bracelet? Well, it makes it non-transferrable, but the main reason is that it's a useful gimmick.

It's highly unlikely that a Western government would make chipping mandatory. It's highly likely that a Western company like Visa will make it available. It's more likely that mobile phones will fill the cash gap in the short term.

Don't forget the government can track your mobile phone, folks. :tinfoil

[Horatius]

Don't forget the government can track your mobile phone, folks. :tinfoil



The government knows where my cell phone is?


Puts them one up on me.


Which highlights the problem with using this as a means of controlling the population.




I think there's a comic in there somewhere....

[INRM]

Red Three,

I was not saying that it's guaranteed to happen. I was speculating how it could happen.

I was not trying to start a new conspiracy theory

[Sabrina]

A chip for locating military people that actively broadcast some kind of signal seems like it might sometimes be unproductive from a tactical perspective.

Very likely correct, come to think of it.

Considering it would require some sort of frequency that can be monitored, it wouldn't be that difficult, most likely, for a foreign entity to monitor the same frequency if they can determine what it is and therefore get the location of our units and the likely strengths involved there.

On the plus side, prisoners of war would be less attractive, since they'd already know exactly how many people were there to kick their :rule10

(yes, that was a joke. :D)

[Minadin]

Kevin Warwick (http://www.kevinwarwick.com/)
<snip>


Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the guy I was thinking about.

Very likely correct, come to think of it.

Considering it would require some sort of frequency that can be monitored, it wouldn't be that difficult, most likely, for a foreign entity to monitor the same frequency if they can determine what it is and therefore get the location of our units and the likely strengths involved there.

On the plus side, prisoners of war would be less attractive, since they'd already know exactly how many people were there to kick their :rule10

(yes, that was a joke. :D)

If they could develop some sort of technology that was passive until called upon, that might work. I just can't see any way to do it with RFID or similar.

[richardm]

The government knows where my cell phone is?

Puts them one up on me.


Pick up your landline phone and ask the eavesdropping CIA agent where it is :D

[JimBenArm]

Pick up your landline phone and ask the eavesdropping CIA agent where it is :D
No need to use the phone. Just speak clearly. We'll hear you.

[JoeyDonuts]

No need to use the phone. Just speak clearly. We'll hear you.

Not now. I have Miss Cleo on line 1, ordering a pizza on line 2, and LostAngeles won't stop calling line 3 for some reason.

If he calls in about five minutes, Jenkins can probably eaves it. If he's done arguing with that shrew of a wife by then.

[Squidgy]

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/20090702_Bill_banning_forced_identity-chip_implants_clears_House.html

?

[JimBenArm]

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/20090702_Bill_banning_forced_identity-chip_implants_clears_House.html

?
Paranoia. They've been watching too many "B" grade sci-fi movies. Attention-seeking politicians (but I'm repeating myself).

[JoeyDonuts]

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/20090702_Bill_banning_forced_identity-chip_implants_clears_House.html

?

If you get all in a tizzy about every odd sounding piece of legislation that emanates from State Representatives, consider this:

In Tennessee, it is illegal to hunt a whale from a moving car. Now at some point a government official decided it was a good idea to go ahead and present this legislation and it passed.

There aren't any whales in Tennessee, and there aren't any shadowy organizations waiting to shove a lo-jack up your ass.

Apparently, that's not going to stop either you or Rep Babbette Joseph from freaking out about it.

Next up: Abolishment of parking priveleges for armored chimpanzees on horseback.

[Squidgy]

If you get all in a tizzy about every odd sounding piece of legislation that emanates from State Representatives, consider this:

In Tennessee, it is illegal to hunt a whale from a moving car. Now at some point a government official decided it was a good idea to go ahead and present this legislation and it passed.

There aren't any whales in Tennessee, and there aren't any shadowy organizations waiting to shove a lo-jack up your ass.

Apparently, that's not going to stop either you or Rep Babbette Joseph from freaking out about it.

Next up: Abolishment of parking priveleges for armored chimpanzees on horseback.
I didn't freak out at all. I just wondered why a bill was needed for a ban on forced chipping.
Me getting in a tizzy would be like: HOLY FRICKING MOLY, THEY WANNA CHIP EVERYONE!!! WRITE TO YOUR CONGRESSMAN AAAARG.

But I didn't do that so trust me when I say I was calm.

[JoeyDonuts]

I didn't freak out at all. I just wondered why a bill was needed for a ban on forced chipping.
Me getting in a tizzy would be like: HOLY FRICKING MOLY, THEY WANNA CHIP EVERYONE!!! WRITE TO YOUR CONGRESSMAN AAAARG.

But I didn't do that so trust me when I say I was calm.

Not every piece of legislation makes sense. Add this one to the pile.

[Squidgy]

Thanks for the info. I will be sure not to do any drive-by whaling next time I have few too many JD's in Tenessee.

[Praktik]

These (http://www.cosmic-people.com/english/letakovy_system/obrazky/tn_l333a_en.gif) guys (http://www.cosmic-people.com/english/letakovy_system/obrazky/tn_l333b_en.gif) are pretty serious about RFID.

They leafletted my apartment and that of my gf. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=146547)

DON'T GET CHIPPED BY SAURIANS!!

[Sunray Breaker]

I think ignorant is a tad harsh. I have been following conspiracy theories for a while and now I am trying to eliminate the BS that go's with them.
If you don't have a constructive answer don't reply please. A straight out insult is a waste of yours and my time.

My sentiments exactly. I'm a recovering CT myself and I think harsh replies like that are what keep a lot of CT's from waking up...

I can speak from personal experience. I came here looking for some Zeitgeist debunkery and almost closed the window and never came back, all because I was sick of people insulting my intellgience, instead of constructively criticizing my questions.

So please folks, as I said before, this is not 4chan with a brain...It's a great place to have a serious debate. Lets try behaving like adults shall we?

As far as the RFID chip. I don't really know much RELIABLE info on it. I've heard plenty of CT's about it.

Apparently these Countries already put RFID in passports:
Norway (2005), Japan (March 1, 2006), most EU countries (around 2006) including Ireland and UK, Australia and the United States (2007), Serbia (July 2008), Republic of Korea (August 2008), Albania (January 2009).

Of course, this is according to wikipedia, so I could be lying and not even know it.

[Squidgy]

My sentiments exactly. I'm a recovering CT myself and I think harsh replies like that are what keep a lot of CT's from waking up...

I can speak from personal experience. I came here looking for some Zeitgeist debunkery and almost closed the window and never came back, all because I was sick of people insulting my intellgience, instead of constructively criticizing my questions.

So please folks, as I said before, this is not 4chan with a brain...It's a great place to have a serious debate. Lets try behaving like adults shall we?

As far as the RFID chip. I don't really know much RELIABLE info on it. I've heard plenty of CT's about it.

Apparently these Countries already put RFID in passports:
Norway (2005), Japan (March 1, 2006), most EU countries (around 2006) including Ireland and UK, Australia and the United States (2007), Serbia (July 2008), Republic of Korea (August 2008), Albania (January 2009).

Of course, this is according to wikipedia, so I could be lying and not even know it.

Don't close the window dude, we are unique in understanding the mind set of CT'S. Well not so unique now because there are two of us here now but I'm sure you know what I mean. :)

[Horatius]

I didn't freak out at all. I just wondered why a bill was needed for a ban on forced chipping.




The problem is with the word "needed". It wasn't needed, but someone somewhere thought it might be useful.

[Interior, Legislator's Office]

Staffer: Sir, we've been receiving inquiries from voters about our plans to inject them with RFID chips

Legislator: What plan? Chips? What are you talking about?

S: Apparently, some people think that we plan to force them to have chips installed in their bodies so we can track them, or something. I've gotten 3 e-mails today about it.

L:Track them? Why would anyone do that?

S: I don't know, but they seem very insistent that someone plans to do that.

L: Do these guys vote?

S: Some of them do, yeah. Usually for Ron Paul.

L: Well, should be easy to poach those votes. What do they want me to do about it?

S: They want a law making this activity illegal.

L: So, if I sponsor a law making an action I have no interest in in taking illegal, I can get a few more votes next election?

S: Yeah, pretty much.

L: Well, the last vote count was pretty close to 50-50, so **** it, let's write something up for these guys. Hey, a vote's a vote!

S: Very good, sir.





Don't close the window dude, we are unique in understanding the mind set of CT'S. Well not so unique now because there are two of us here now but I'm sure you know what I mean. :)


Must ... Not ... Stundie....;)

[Squidgy]

Must ... Not ... Stundie....

lol thanks :D

[Squidgy]

Don't close the window dude, we are unique in understanding the mind set of CT'S. Well not so unique now because there are two of us here now but I'm sure you know what I mean.
The queerest thing that I have ever said :)

[Hourglassmemory]

Don't close the window dude, we are unique in understanding the mind set of CT'S. Well not so unique now because there are two of us here now but I'm sure you know what I mean. :)

You two are not the only ones.
I'm one of them too, but my "converstion" happened a while ago. I joined in April 2007.
I consider myself totally clean from woo. And I'm only 19.
My poor brian has gone through quite a roller coaster ride, but I'm greatful for it.
It truly does give you an informed perspective.
I wonder if the people who've been involved in the conspiracy fad will slowly start coming more to the centre, and then to the skeptic side.
Though I feel very sad that some people from my generation will stick with this nonsense for the rest of their lifes. It's very heartbreaking.

This forum will always be here though...

[Squidgy]

You two are not the only ones.
I'm one of them too, but my "converstion" happened a while ago. I joined in April 2007.
I consider myself totally clean from woo. And I'm only 19.
My poor brian has gone through quite a roller coaster ride, but I'm greatful for it.
It truly does give you an informed perspective.
I wonder if the people who've been involved in the conspiracy fad will slowly start coming more to the centre, and then to the skeptic side.
Though I feel very sad that some people from my generation will stick with this nonsense for the rest of their lifes. It's very heartbreaking.

This forum will always be here though...
Great post. thanks :)

[T.A.M.]

critical thinking is not an inherited trait, and some develop it sooner then others. We can only hope that as the majority of the truth movement gets older, they will realize how silly they have been, and return to the real world.

TAM:)

[Dan O.]

If you know you've been chipped there are effective means to shield the chip to render it neutral. Covert tracking requires chipping the target without their knowledge. You can't just stick someone with a needle or claim you are giving them a vitamin shot because the smallest chips are still about the size of a grain of rice so it requires a really big needle and leaves a lump that can be felt under the skin.

Tracking cell phones is quite effective. I recently used Google Latitude (http://www.google.com/mobile/products/latitude.html#p=default) to let my family follow my travels from thousands of miles away. But unless the phone has a GPS the resolution is limited. It's easy enough though to leave your personal phone at home and pick up a pre-paid phone for covert operations.

You may already be carrying RFID chips and not know it. Modern cars have a security chip built into the ignition key. Credit cards and ID cards can have the chips built in. Many consumer items use RFID tags for inventory tracking. When's the last time you had your personal possessions scanned for bugs? You might be surprised.

[JimBenArm]

If you know you've been chipped there are effective means to shield the chip to render it neutral. Covert tracking requires chipping the target without their knowledge. You can't just stick someone with a needle or claim you are giving them a vitamin shot because the smallest chips are still about the size of a grain of rice so it requires a really big needle and leaves a lump that can be felt under the skin.

Tracking cell phones is quite effective. I recently used Google Latitude (http://www.google.com/mobile/products/latitude.html#p=default) to let my family follow my travels from thousands of miles away. But unless the phone has a GPS the resolution is limited. It's easy enough though to leave your personal phone at home and pick up a pre-paid phone for covert operations.

You may already be carrying RFID chips and not know it. Modern cars have a security chip built into the ignition key. Credit cards and ID cards can have the chips built in. Many consumer items use RFID tags for inventory tracking. When's the last time you had your personal possessions scanned for bugs? You might be surprised.
Every time I scan for bugs all I get is roaches and ants, with the occasional junebug thrown in. I feel cheated.

[TjW]

Every time I scan for bugs all I get is roaches and ants, with the occasional junebug thrown in. I feel cheated.
Maybe your dog would share his fleas.

[tsig]

A chip for locating military people that actively broadcast some kind of signal seems like it might sometimes be unproductive from a tactical perspective.

Same argument for the passive chip. Your enemy could get chip readers. You wouldn't even have to be conscious to be interrogated.

[tsig]

oh my, oh my.

1. Sex Offenders...yah, not such a bad idea as they are scum.
2. Do you not think their would be strict guidelines for this, when and if it did pass? For instance, you have it implanted for the first 5 years post sentence, and then if no further incarcerations, you have it removed.
3. Military personnel, yah, not a bad idea either. A VOLUNTEER program where you have one inserted if you like. Once again, we are talking about LOCATING DEVICES!!!!
4. Once again, there would be strict rules in place, so that your chip was removed upon discharge/retirement.
5. Your "include everybody" scenario is just foolish. If you think such things are gonna happen, even remotely, go back to reading sci-fi novels and watching the matrix.

TAM:)

Maybe there could be some kind of bracelet that goes on the ankle and tells authorities you have left your house?

[Squidgy]

Carcastic bas**rd :D

[Elizabeth I]

Every time I scan for bugs all I get is roaches and ants, with the occasional junebug thrown in. I feel cheated.

Or waterbugs...ugh!

[ktesibios]

Tracking cell phones is quite effective. I recently used Google Latitude (http://www.google.com/mobile/products/latitude.html#p=default) to let my family follow my travels from thousands of miles away. But unless the phone has a GPS the resolution is limited. It's easy enough though to leave your personal phone at home and pick up a pre-paid phone for covert operations.

I have a gps navigation app for my cell phone. The "where am I?" option, which gets my location via gps and displays is on a map is usually pretty good, but sometimes it's off by as much as half a mile.


You may already be carrying RFID chips and not know it. Modern cars have a security chip built into the ignition key. Credit cards and ID cards can have the chips built in. Many consumer items use RFID tags for inventory tracking. When's the last time you had your personal possessions scanned for bugs? You might be surprised.

I have two that I know about in my pockets right now. One is part of an electronic access-control system we use at work to enter the building and a secure equipment storage room, and the other is in my American Express Blue card- the PC antenna and chip are clearly visible in the transparent card

[T.A.M.]

Maybe there could be some kind of bracelet that goes on the ankle and tells authorities you have left your house?

grrrr....

Yes that is fine for felons. I suppose we could do the same with military and children, but bracelets can be removed, and they carry a stigma.

Can you see it...

"oh look, little john is a bracey! Hey bracey, mommy is looking for ya!"

or while out on patrol,

"look searg, paulie got himself a bracelet. What's the matter Paulie, afraid mommy won't find you?"

may sound silly, but I think a small chip planted where no one can see it would be more tolerable...but that is just M.O.

TAM:)

[Bobert]

I think ignorant is a tad harsh. I have been following conspiracy theories for a while and now I am trying to eliminate the BS that go's with them.
If you don't have a constructive answer don't reply please. A straight out insult is a waste of yours and my time.
Do you believe the US government or any government has plans to physically implant chips into us?
How do you think they would do it?

[Bobert]

grrrr....

Yes that is fine for felons. I suppose we could do the same with military and children, but bracelets can be removed, and they carry a stigma.

Can you see it...

"oh look, little john is a bracey! Hey bracey, mommy is looking for ya!"

or while out on patrol,

"look searg, paulie got himself a bracelet. What's the matter Paulie, afraid mommy won't find you?"

may sound silly, but I think a small chip planted where no one can see it would be more tolerable...but that is just M.O.

TAM:)
In the US ankle bracelets are used to keep tabs on those placed on, "house arrest" is what he was referring to. Not sure how they do it up there on the hat of the US.;)
http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:0Z3_KDUvtS-vtM:http://cartophilia.com/blog/images2009/canada-americas-hat-tshirt-1.jpg (http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:0Z3_KDUvtS-vtM:http://cartophilia.com/blog/images2009/canada-americas-hat-tshirt-1.jpg)

[Unsecured Coins]

i missed this thread? damn!

[Dan O.]

"look searg, paulie got himself a bracelet. What's the matter Paulie, afraid mommy won't find you?"

may sound silly, but I think a small chip planted where no one can see it would be more tolerable...but that is just M.O.

TAM:)

I'm sure you could find an orifice to conceal the electronics from an ankle bracelet. But the implantable RFID chip (http://www.antichips.com/faq/html/faq-section01.html) doesn't provide the same functionality.

[LashL]

In the US ankle bracelets are used to keep tabs on those placed on, "house arrest" is what he was referring to. Not sure how they do it up there on the hat of the US.

In Canada, we also have electronic ankle bracelets which are used to monitor certain individuals on probation, parole, or other forms of community supervision.

Oh, and we are not "the hat of the U.S." [ETA: and the graphic you posted is inaccurate]. Rather, we have the largest land mass in North America, (and second largest land mass in the world) and the U.S. is known affectionately as 'that quirky country down below' because we are way too polite to call it the, um, er, ass end of North America or the nether regions of North America. ;) Plus, we really, really like you guys [ETA: and girls] down below...

/OT

[JimBenArm]

Well, if you take a good look at Florida, you can kinda tell what it is. Which, of course, lets you know what LA is. That make Missouri the belly-button. That's right, we're the cute ones!

[Bobert]

In Canada, we also have electronic ankle bracelets which are used to monitor certain individuals on probation, parole, or other forms of community supervision.

Oh, and we are not "the hat of the U.S." [ETA: and the graphic you posted is inaccurate]. Rather, we have the largest land mass in North America, (and second largest land mass in the world) and the U.S. is known affectionately as 'that quirky country down below' because we are way too polite to call it the, um, er, ass end of North America or the nether regions of North America. ;) Plus, we really, really like you guys [ETA: and girls] down below...

/OT
Well it could be a really really big hat then!

[Nosi]

In Canada, we also have electronic ankle bracelets which are used to monitor certain individuals on probation, parole, or other forms of community supervision.

Oh, and we are not "the hat of the U.S." [ETA: and the graphic you posted is inaccurate]. Rather, we have the largest land mass in North America, (and second largest land mass in the world) and the U.S. is known affectionately as 'that quirky country down below' because we are way too polite to call it the, um, er, ass end of North America or the nether regions of North America. ;) Plus, we really, really like you guys [ETA: and girls] down below...

/OT

What do you call Mexico? She's technically below the USA...;)

[TjW]

What do you call Mexico? She's technically below the USA...;)
America's necktie?

[Minadin]

America's necktie?

Because they make us look classy?

:boxedin:

And LashL, for all the feigned disdain for your southern neighbors, an asoundingly large percentage of your population sees fit to live awfully close to them, for all that land mass.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/Minadin/map-2006-pop-density-canada-sz02-en.gif

Then again:

It's also disturbingly similar to the map for Manure Density in Canada:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/Minadin/203p_1e.jpg

So, maybe it's not saying the nice things about us I had originally presumed . . .