How Ironic

[Squidgy]

So, I recently converted from truth seeking to skepticism. I told my friends, family and girlfriend about this U-Turn in thinking. I expected them to say, ''yay, welcome back to the real world''.

However the response I got was in fact ''but 9/11 'was' an inside job, only a complete idiot would think otherwise''.
My girlfriend - ''We are entering a police state, can't you see it?''.
Another friend - ''Where is your evidence that the Illuminati don't exist''. etc etc.

Holy cow!! I mentioned this stuff to them while twoofing and they were interested but seemed skeptical. Now I am surrounded by people saying that I am wrong about my new found skepticism.
Have I inadvertently brainwashed them? Are they just testing me(which I doubt with the people I know as I dismiss people that I don't trust)?

I have been told by a regular poster that there are a few 'converts' here.
Anyone else had these kind of reactions from U-Turn?


p.s Any skeptics, your contribution to this thread is more than welcome. :)

[andycal]

I've never really been a 'truth seeker' but I think it's just because I'm lazy. Skepticism is much easier, you just say "prove it" whenever anyone says something that even vaguely sounds bollox and hope they go away.

[Squidgy]

I've never really been a 'truth seeker' but I think it's just because I'm lazy. Skepticism is much easier, you just say "prove it" whenever anyone says something that even vaguely sounds bollox and hope they go away.
Lol, life would be so much easier that way. However I made the mistake of planting seeds and now I have to answer to the tree's that grew from it.

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

You just have to convince them they don't have evidence. In the face of no evidence most people give up. Except for Theists...that's just hardwired into them.

[andycal]

Except for Theists...that's just hardwired into them.

Yeah, with me though they just want to keep buying me coffee to try and convert me. Which is great, I get a lot of coffee.

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

Yeah, with me though they just want to keep buying me coffee to try and convert me. Which is great, I get a lot of coffee.

Damn...all they tell me is how I'm gonna burn...
You gotta tell me how to do that. lol

[andycal]

It's easy, just feign some interest. Like "hmmm, that's an interesting viewpoint, I never thought of it like that..." They think you're interested and a potential convert so just don't let up until you've had your fill of mocha and muffins. I got a lot of practice with the Jehova's Whitnesses in the 80s.

I'm going to try to use it in a "prayer's in the pub" meeting close by sometime.

[ExMinister]

I suggest just trying to explain the evidence that convinced you to drop those ideas yourself. If you were able to see the light, maybe the same will happen with your friends and family. It may take awhile as I've found people don't always make those kinds of changes quickly.

ETA: Also you mentioned converting from truth seeking to skepticism, but I consider skepticism to be a result of having developed the critical thinking skills to sort out truth from fiction, which is really the only way to get at truth. In that sense, we are both truth-seekers and skeptics. :)

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

It's easy, just feign some interest. Like "hmmm, that's an interesting viewpoint, I never thought of it like that..." They think you're interested and a potential convert so just don't let up until you've had your fill of mocha and muffins. I got a lot of practice with the Jehova's Whitnesses in the 80s.

I'm going to try to use it in a "prayer's in the pub" meeting close by sometime.

sweet...lol

[Squidgy]

I suggest just trying to explain the evidence that convinced you to drop those ideas yourself. If you were able to see the light, maybe the same will happen with your friends and family. It may take awhile as I've found people don't always make those kinds of changes quickly.

ETA: Also you mentioned converting from truth seeking to skepticism, but I consider skepticism to be a result of having developed the critical thinking skills to sort out truth from fiction, which is really the only way to get at truth. In that sense, we are both truth-seekers and skeptics. :)
Good reply :D

[shadron]

Did you explain how you had come by this change of heart? Perhaps they thought you were just trying to dry-gulch them.

And, we'd be interested in hearing what happened, ourselves.

[Modified]

Darn it, I came here looking for another argument about the meaning of the word "irony".

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I was never invested or very interested in woo (and almost never spent actual money on it) but I was very intrigued by some of it and spent some time reading about some of it and certainly hoping it was real. I guess I was a "fence sitter" and never really a true believer.

As a kid, I bought Tarot cards and attempted to learn to tell fortunes in total sincerity and thought I believed in ghosts, telepathy, UFOs and the Bermuda Triangle and a few things like that. At the time I was a big reader and lover of fantasy fiction and my casual interest in the paranormal before becoming a skeptic was probably an outgrowth of that. The type of person who loves Harry Potter and Narnia is the type of person who would like to believe in astrology and vampires.

I did have a few people tell me I was nuts for entertaining these ideas then. It doesn't even compare to the number of people who tell me I'm wrong/cynical/don't get it/won't see the light/lack imagination/am close minded now that I'm a skeptic.

I know what you mean about some people being bipolar on woo. They swallow some things whole but think other stuff is insane and laughable and fake. They change their minds about it every few weeks. They want to believe it is true and are conflicted because their mind is telling them it is not. Or there is some kind of a confusion about the claims of the particular woo and the skeptical version of events- they just don't have the facts straight.


Edit: You are correct about getting flack for your beliefs no matter what they are.

If you are a liberal, you get crap from conservatives for daring to share your views and not hiding them.

If you are a conservative, you get crap from liberals (and liberals can be as nasty, disrespectful and intolerant as human beings as anyone else).

If you are religious, you get heat for it.

If you are an atheist, you have to take heat for it.

If you are a believer in woo, you get treated badly sometimes.

If you are a skeptic, you get treated badly sometimes or a lot of the times.

If you are not friends with your brother in law, it causes problems with your sister and the rest of the family.

If you are good friends with your brother in law, it causes problems with your sister and the rest of the family.

If you have a son who wants to play soccer and hang out with his buddies all day, you wish he'd pick up a book and apply himself and take an interest in real things.

If you have a son that reads books and has to be made to go outside, you wish he was more athletic and popular.

If you have a daughter that spends money on clothes, you wish she would control her spending and wouldn't be so shallow.

If you have a daughter who couldn't care less about that stuff, you wish she would care and despair of her being either an old maid or a lesbian.

You live in the city, you wished you lived in the suburbs.

You live in the suburbs, you wished you lived in the city.

You are single, you are miserable.

You are in a relationship, you are miserable.


As Chris Rock said, "Ain't no happiness no where."

[EHocking]

So, I recently converted from truth seeking to skepticism.Why do you think that these two concepts are mutually exclusive?

Being sceptical IS seeking the truth.
(or at least evidence supporting a "truth")

[Wildy]

Could be that they're just taking the piss right now.

[Squidgy]

Could be that they're just taking the piss right now.
That's a good guess but wrong. They are serious.

[Squidgy]

Why do you think that these two concepts are mutually exclusive?

Being sceptical IS seeking the truth.
(or at least evidence supporting a "truth")
True. :)

[LightinDarkness]

I see the responses you go as three levels of progressive wooism:

1) Police state comment: Rage against the Machine woo in the making.
2) 9/11 comment: Full blown twoofer
3) Illuminati comment: Completely down the rabbit hole.

All of them are pretty bad, but I'd be concerned about friend #3 the most. Telling someone else they have to present evidence against a secret cabal is plotting for world domination is a classic sign of CTers who have fully embraced the stupidity. It completely ignores burden of proof concepts, and when you try to tell them arguments don't work that way and they have to prove the claim, its not up to you to prove a negative, I bet they will tell you that your either a NWO disinformation agent or a close minded person.

[autumn1971]

Darn it, I came here looking for another argument about the meaning of the word "irony".
How ironic.

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

How ironic.

rofl...

[Squidgy]

How ironic.
:D

[dropzone]

The key is to do it with the right people. Family? Family members, coming at this from the same point of view, may not be sympathetic. Quick quote of Jesus, "Truly, I say to you, no prophet is acceptable in his own country."

What you want to do is to assess those with whom you are drinking and tailor your remarks accordingly. For instance, while with a group of Marines on leave, thank them and say something about how the search for Bin Laden was an Army exercise, so OBVIOUSLY it failed. You won't pay for another drink that night.

[autumn1971]

I second dropzone's method; there is always a common ground to find. Make sure you are standing on it before stepping off. I live in the South, and I'm as leftist as they allow in this country, but I still am able to frequent various dive bars by simply establishing the common ground. If I get too irritating on a particular subject, those around me can simply pull me to the common ground of motorcycles, or camping, or whatever. Likewise, if they get too stupidly racist, I can drag them back to college football (which is what's really important, anyway.)
Our common experiences as humans are always more important than the little differences that have been allowed to be imagined as vital.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Have I inadvertently brainwashed them? Are they just testing me(which I doubt with the people I know as I dismiss people that I don't trust)?I suspect much of it is your awareness. When you become skeptical and start questioning things, suddenly all kinds of things that you didn't pay much attention to before suddenly pop out at you.

Back in college I took a course on folklore. We studied all kinds of folklore, but a large part of it was modern folklore. This was way back before MythBusters, JREF, Snopes, and public availability of the Internet. Even Brunvand’s “urban legend” books were quite recent. I had never heard of such a thing. One of our assignments was to collect 30 examples of modern folklore (urban legends) and then write up a full description of who, when, where, in what context it was told and an analysis of folklore identifiers, archetypes, social benefits, and so on. Basically like 30 Snopes articles, only a bit more academic. I didn’t think it would be in any way possible to collect 30 of these things because I couldn’t remember having ever heard any other than a few spooky stories told around a campfire. But I suddenly started hearing them all over the place—even hearing multiple variations of the same stories. I could identify the similarities to other types of folklore and even see how they were working to manipulate social situations. Obviously people had not just started telling these stories at the same time that I had learned about them. I was just now aware of them. Now we have people running around everywhere saying, “That’s an urban legend!” or, “Really? I’m going to check Snopes.” It’s a good thing. :)

Being skeptical about other things is the same. Once you know the woo is out there, you start identifying it all over the place. Another good thing. :)

Also, a new movie based on a Dan Brown novel just came out. And people are upset about the economy. It will take a little while for the Illuminati and police-state woo-woo to fade back into the woodwork. :boggled:

[Shrike]

Did you explain how you had come by this change of heart? Perhaps they thought you were just trying to dry-gulch them.

And, we'd be interested in hearing what happened, ourselves.

Well obviously, the Illuminati brainwashed him
Duh!

[Squidgy]

Did you explain how you had come by this change of heart? Perhaps they thought you were just trying to dry-gulch them.

And, we'd be interested in hearing what happened, ourselves.
Things that changed my perspective:
I saw a friend whom I hadn't seen for a long time. I mentioned some woo to him and he flat out said, "Thats a load of boll**ks".
I also had recently joined the David Icke forum and realised just how nutty some of these people are. I mean I had got sucked into the NWO stuff in regards to ruling Elites but dismissed the Illuminati stuff. The police state stuff seemed believable to me at the time because of the amount of surveillence in the UK and all the recent tazerings, beatings etc.
Then someone had told me to look at critical thinking sites, it was a while till I did. My hardest obstacle was debunking 9/11 CT's because I was convinced it was an inside job but when I looked into it all from the other side the official story started to make sense again.
I found JREF and haven't looked back. Suddenly I remembered there are people on the net who actually have a sense of humour and aren't all doom and gloom all the time.
Suddenly I had the soul destroying burden of CT paranoia lifted off my shoulders.
Suddenly I felt free again.

Also ironic is that twoofers claim they are fighting for freedom when in fact the only thing imprisoning them is their own mind.
Like Alex Jones says ''their is a war on your mind'', and he is the one waging it.

[dlorde]

For explanations, favour cockup and stupidity over conspiracy. I find the former almost always more plausible than the latter.

[shadron]

Things that changed my perspective:


Thank you.

[Squidgy]

Thank you.
My pleasure, sorry it took so long to answer.

[Sunray Breaker]

I had this problem a little too...And I'm still having it.

I've been trying to explain to all of the people I've been preaching the "twoof" gospel to that they need to look into both sides. That they need to realize what types of harsh indictments they make and how little evidence they are making it on.

It's hard for me to not equate the "twoofers" with hate groups. There's so much rage that you can see in their faces, so much bigorty. Now that I've stepped back and looked at myself, its hard to imagine that was even me at one point.

Most of my friends have at least heard me out...And a couple have even vistited this site. My UFO friend read about 5 minutes of the skeptics forum, got pizzy and left.

I'd definitely recommend telling everyone to check out the debate with Dylan Avery, Jason Bermas and Popular Mechanics. That was one of my big turing points, when you can just see how much they are manipulating the evidence and distorting perception to support their bogus theories.

I also recommend showing the "twoofers" SCREW LOOSE CHANGE.

I'm hoping to see a Screw Zeitgeist Addendum come out. Because that film, more than any other, really needs a public whipping.

[Sunray Breaker]

I found JREF and haven't looked back. Suddenly I remembered there are people on the net who actually have a sense of humour and aren't all doom and gloom all the time.
Suddenly I had the soul destroying burden of CT paranoia lifted off my shoulders.
Suddenly I felt free again.
I know exactly how you feel brutha. I just had this same epiphany about two weeks ago.

It's hard to even look at some of my posts and see how crazy I was.

I feel truly liberated and I'm glad you started this thread.

Might I suggest perhaps getting with some friends and making some counterpropaganda.

There is a whole lot of debunking on these films that need to be done and film seems to be what triggered ALOT of this madness.

I was considering doing an investigative documentary on the truth movement. Where we confront their evidence, investigate their MO, their background and present it.

People respond to creepy images, dark music and outlandish stories.

I think it's our (recovering "twoofers") duty to engage more with our former brothers in arms.

[Squidgy]

My sentiments exactly. It's a shame because truthers are compassionate but angry. They need to realise they are being manipulated :(