DVFinn
5th December 2003, 10:46 PM
It was really a joke, and I specifically stated that I made no claim as to the soul's existence and that belief was solely the business of the purchaser. eBay pulled the listing as soon as I started getting bids and referred me to their policy on no human body parts or remains, which kicked off a brief round of email correspondence when i asked for clarification. I'm pasting them below. I found it all pretty funny.
_________________________
Dear David V Finn(dvfinn@cableone.net),
eBay appreciates the fact that you chose to list your listing(s):
2969254357 My Immortal Soul
with us. However, eBay does not permit users to list (for sale or gift) human organs, other body parts (except hair) or souls on its site. Therefore, we have ended this listing(s) and all fees have been credited to your account.
For a better understanding of our listing
guidelines and how they affect the way you list your items, please visit the following URL:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-ov.html
For information on eBay's policies regarding human parts and remains, please view:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/remains.html
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please be aware future incidents of this nature can lead to the suspension of your account. We value you as a member of our community and wish to continue this relationship, so we must ask you to refrain from any violations of the Listing Policies or User Agreement in the future.
We thank you in advance for your cooperation.
Regards,
Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
eBay
______________________________
> Form Message %22201% 011002
> Subject: CW%X10050 Listing Ended Prohibited Items #US ?01
> Item:
> User Feedback: 2
> Browser Info: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0; .NET
> CLR 1.1.4322)
> Message:
> Topics > Safe Trading > If Something Goes Wrong& >
>
> Message: RE: Item - 2969254357 My Immortal Soul
>
> Dear Sir or Madam,
>
> I apologize if my listing violates your policy, however I have reviewed
> your policy on remains and found no reference to souls. Your policy
> makes reference only to human body parts. As the body is a physical
> structure, and as the "soul" is in common definition an intangible
> metaphysical structure distinct from the body, I do not see where my
> listing has violated your policy, unless of course you can demonstrate
> where in the human body the soul is located, at which point the James
> Randi Educational Foundation has $1,000,000 set aside as a reward for
> you.
>
> Further, I believe that your prohibition of the sale of this item
> constitutes a discriminitory bias based on religion.
>
> I respectfully request that my item be reinstated, or that Ebay's policy
> of religious discrimination in this matter be explained.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> David V. Finn
> 7160 W. Larkin Place
> Biloxi MS 39532
> dvfinn@cableone.net
>
_______________________________________
> Hello David,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to write eBay with your concerns. I'm
> happy to help you further.
>
> If the soul does not exist, eBay could not allow the auctioning of the
> soul because there would be nothing to sell. However if the soul does
> exist, then in accordance with eBay's policy on human parts and remains
> we would not allow the auctioning of human souls. The soul would be
> considered human remains, although it is not specifically stated on the
> policy page human souls are still not allowed to be listed on eBay. Your
> auction was removed appropriately and will not be reinstated. Please do
> not relist this item with us in the future.
>
> You may review our policy at the following link:
>
> http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-remains.html
>
> It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing eBay.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jade
> eBay Community Watch
> ______________________________
Jade,
Thank you for your response. While I do not agree with your reasoning I do
respect that as a private company you have the right to set your own
policies and I have no intention of violating your rules by relisting the
item.
I must say, however, that if a purchaser chooses to believe in such a thing
as a soul than it should be his right to purchase such an item. While I can
certainly see the good sense in disallowing the sale of human organs, which
could be seen as encouraging harmful and possibly illegal behaviors, the
moral implications of selling a "soul" have no basis other than religious,
hence the policy could certainly be described as having a religious bias.
As to the argument that if the soul does not exist it should not be
available for sale, I would then also assume that you would disallow the
sale of, for example, psychic readings, prayers, feng shue (spelling?) or
astrology services, etc. all of which are as unprovable and improbable to be
genuine as a soul. I notice however that you have listings for "Healing"
crystals, astrology readings and psychic consultations.
You could of course say that the "Healing" crystals, for example, are
tangible objects. In that case I would have to say that I also was selling a
tangible object, as my offer was for a written title for my soul. I see no
difference in selling a piece of paper representing my soul or selling a
crystal holding alleged "energies". In my listing I at least made explicit
mention that I was not claiming the actual existence of the soul, and that
the belief or disbelief was the responsibility of the purchaser. Again it
would seem that there is a discriminatory policy at play here based solely
on religious grounds.
As I said, however, it's your site and your rules and I agreed in
registering to abide by them. You have provided many of us with a good
laugh though.
Thank you
Dave Finn
_________________________
Dear David V Finn(dvfinn@cableone.net),
eBay appreciates the fact that you chose to list your listing(s):
2969254357 My Immortal Soul
with us. However, eBay does not permit users to list (for sale or gift) human organs, other body parts (except hair) or souls on its site. Therefore, we have ended this listing(s) and all fees have been credited to your account.
For a better understanding of our listing
guidelines and how they affect the way you list your items, please visit the following URL:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-ov.html
For information on eBay's policies regarding human parts and remains, please view:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/remains.html
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please be aware future incidents of this nature can lead to the suspension of your account. We value you as a member of our community and wish to continue this relationship, so we must ask you to refrain from any violations of the Listing Policies or User Agreement in the future.
We thank you in advance for your cooperation.
Regards,
Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
eBay
______________________________
> Form Message %22201% 011002
> Subject: CW%X10050 Listing Ended Prohibited Items #US ?01
> Item:
> User Feedback: 2
> Browser Info: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0; .NET
> CLR 1.1.4322)
> Message:
> Topics > Safe Trading > If Something Goes Wrong& >
>
> Message: RE: Item - 2969254357 My Immortal Soul
>
> Dear Sir or Madam,
>
> I apologize if my listing violates your policy, however I have reviewed
> your policy on remains and found no reference to souls. Your policy
> makes reference only to human body parts. As the body is a physical
> structure, and as the "soul" is in common definition an intangible
> metaphysical structure distinct from the body, I do not see where my
> listing has violated your policy, unless of course you can demonstrate
> where in the human body the soul is located, at which point the James
> Randi Educational Foundation has $1,000,000 set aside as a reward for
> you.
>
> Further, I believe that your prohibition of the sale of this item
> constitutes a discriminitory bias based on religion.
>
> I respectfully request that my item be reinstated, or that Ebay's policy
> of religious discrimination in this matter be explained.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> David V. Finn
> 7160 W. Larkin Place
> Biloxi MS 39532
> dvfinn@cableone.net
>
_______________________________________
> Hello David,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to write eBay with your concerns. I'm
> happy to help you further.
>
> If the soul does not exist, eBay could not allow the auctioning of the
> soul because there would be nothing to sell. However if the soul does
> exist, then in accordance with eBay's policy on human parts and remains
> we would not allow the auctioning of human souls. The soul would be
> considered human remains, although it is not specifically stated on the
> policy page human souls are still not allowed to be listed on eBay. Your
> auction was removed appropriately and will not be reinstated. Please do
> not relist this item with us in the future.
>
> You may review our policy at the following link:
>
> http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-remains.html
>
> It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing eBay.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jade
> eBay Community Watch
> ______________________________
Jade,
Thank you for your response. While I do not agree with your reasoning I do
respect that as a private company you have the right to set your own
policies and I have no intention of violating your rules by relisting the
item.
I must say, however, that if a purchaser chooses to believe in such a thing
as a soul than it should be his right to purchase such an item. While I can
certainly see the good sense in disallowing the sale of human organs, which
could be seen as encouraging harmful and possibly illegal behaviors, the
moral implications of selling a "soul" have no basis other than religious,
hence the policy could certainly be described as having a religious bias.
As to the argument that if the soul does not exist it should not be
available for sale, I would then also assume that you would disallow the
sale of, for example, psychic readings, prayers, feng shue (spelling?) or
astrology services, etc. all of which are as unprovable and improbable to be
genuine as a soul. I notice however that you have listings for "Healing"
crystals, astrology readings and psychic consultations.
You could of course say that the "Healing" crystals, for example, are
tangible objects. In that case I would have to say that I also was selling a
tangible object, as my offer was for a written title for my soul. I see no
difference in selling a piece of paper representing my soul or selling a
crystal holding alleged "energies". In my listing I at least made explicit
mention that I was not claiming the actual existence of the soul, and that
the belief or disbelief was the responsibility of the purchaser. Again it
would seem that there is a discriminatory policy at play here based solely
on religious grounds.
As I said, however, it's your site and your rules and I agreed in
registering to abide by them. You have provided many of us with a good
laugh though.
Thank you
Dave Finn