Google OS - for free

[Oliver]

My brother told me that there will be a Google OS in 2010 and it might be for free as well. Anyone heard of this before?

[cyborg]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/08/google_operating_system/

Don't get that excited - linux + browser isn't exactly revolutionary.

[GreNME]

My brother told me that there will be a Google OS in 2010 and it might be for free as well. Anyone heard of this before?

Every year since about 2003 or 2004. As of the current announcement, it looks like they've foregone trying to build an OS from the ground up and are instead creating a Linux front-end. I expect it'll be similar in nature to the XO from the OLPC project (which I have at home).

[Molinaro]

CNN has a story on it today. They say it will be 1st be targeted as a netbook OS.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/08/technology/google_chrome/index.htm?postversion=2009070807

[jsiv]

It's worse than just another Linux distribution, because they're using their own windowing system (from Android?) rather than X11, which means it won't even be able to run all the existing Linux applications.

[Molinaro]

It's worse than just another Linux distribution, because they're using their own windowing system (from Android?) rather than X11, which means it won't even be able to run all the existing Linux applications.

Do you have some inside info that says their own windowing system will not be compatible?

[realpaladin]

Do you have some inside info that says their own windowing system will not be compatible?
Try Android SDK.

[jsiv]

Do you have some inside info that says their own windowing system will not be compatible?
Er, no, but seeing as its their own windowing system made for Android, it's probably reasonable to suspect that they didn't just reimplement X11.

[GreNME]

Er, no, but seeing as its their own windowing system made for Android, it's probably reasonable to suspect that they didn't just reimplement X11.

This is true, but I wouldn't rule it out completely. My guess is that they'll go a similar route that OLPC has gone, and while using (most of) X11, they'll replace it with their own front-end.

[TheJim]

Have to give Googles marketing department credit getting headlines everywhere for a product that will never reach 1 percent market share. What OEM is going to invest heavy in this product when for 10 bucks more they can get a Windows 7 license that will actually be cheaper when accounting for return rates and support.

[oldhat]

Sure, Google's products are "free" in the sense that you don't pay out of pocket for them.

All they ask is you give up your identity, personal tastes, social networks, marketing information and contact information to them, their affiliates and their friendly datacenters.

Forever. Until the day you die.

[Bobert]

I dont mean to get OT but I have a G1.
It runs android.
All the WINMO haters love to rave about how great the Android OS is for the g1.
Well bottom line is that it has problems too!
Watch all the windows haters will rave about how great google PC OS is and it will probably have issues just like every OS does.

[jeremyp]

and it might be for free as well.
You do realise that Google's customers are the people who place advertisements with them.

Those of us who use Google's technology are the product. Saying "hey look Google is giving us something for free" is the same as pigs saying "hey look, the farmer is feeding us for free" except that our fate will probably not be as extreme as being bacon sandwiches.

[Archangel]

ChromeO/S isn't going to be based on Android so who knows what it's going to run like

"Google has already developed an open-source operating system called Android that is used in mobile phones. The software is also being built into netbooks by several manufacturers.

But Google has not encouraged netbook makers to use Android. The company appears to be positioning Chrome OS as its preferred operating system for netbooks, though it said competition between the two systems would likely drive innovation.

“It makes total sense,” Mr. Augustin said. “Android wasn’t really meant for netbooks.” "

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/technology/companies/08operate.html?_r=2&hp

[jsiv]

This is true, but I wouldn't rule it out completely. My guess is that they'll go a similar route that OLPC has gone, and while using (most of) X11, they'll replace it with their own front-end.
I don't think so. I believe they're using their own windowing system, originally developed for Android. It's not just a window manager/desktop environment running on top of X, it's completely separate.

Not that it matters much, since all they seem to care about is making a light-weight OS that runs a web browser and not much else.

[Ducky]

I don't think so. I believe they're using their own windowing system, originally developed for Android.

You believe wrong.

Quote:

On the Google blog, Sundar Pichai, VP product management and Linus Upson, engineering director, emphasise that Chrome OS is different from Android

From the link in post #2

[jsiv]

You believe wrong.
Yes...? I don't see where I claimed it was the same product, only that they are taking with them the windowing system from Android.

Android is a very closed OS for small devices and only runs Java applets. It makes sense that you don't want that on a computer.

[Ducky]

Yes...? I don't see where I claimed it was the same product, only that they are taking with them the windowing system from Android.

I am confused because I have yet to see where Google said it is the android windowing system. Can you cite that?

I was under the impression that much like gnome or kde they're going to use the x11 libs with their own window manager, but not that it is the windowing system Android uses.

[jsiv]

I am confused because I have yet to see where Google said it is the android windowing system. Can you cite that?
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html

Google Chrome OS will run on both x86 as well as ARM chips and we are working with multiple OEMs to bring a number of netbooks to market next year. The software architecture is simple — Google Chrome running within a new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel. For application developers, the web is the platform.I'm sure you could interpret that in several ways, but I read it to mean more than just a new window manager, and since they've already got the technology from Android, why would they be reinventing their own wheel?

[Ducky]

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html

Where is that stated to be the android windowing system?

[jsiv]

Where is that stated to be the android windowing system?
Because it's a logical assumption that they will base it on technology they've already created, instead of starting from scratch yet again.

[Ducky]

Because it's a logical assumption that they will base it on technology they've already created, instead of starting from scratch yet again.

Ok so it's your assumption, got it.

When google says they're using the android windowing system, fine. Until then all they've said is that it will be a new windowing system. That's in what you've quoted.

[jsiv]

You don't have to be a genius to put two and two together. When they already have a production-quality windowing environment used in another of their Linux distributions, it's pretty far fetched to believe that they're going to start making another one instead of just basing it on what they've already got.

[Ducky]

You don't have to be a genius to put two and two together. When they already have a production-quality windowing environment used in another of their Linux distributions, it's pretty far fetched to believe that they're going to start making another one instead of just basing it on what they've already got.

...Given that they have not announced anything about it other than saying it will be new I don't see where that's anything more than speculation. The windowing system for android is developed for phones. While it may be they then adapt it for netbooks, I don't see where they've announced that in the slightest, nor where anyone involved has even hinted at it. In fact, they've stated they're not the same thing.

It could very well be that they cop out and simply adapt xfce to their needs and call it "new." We don't know yet because no one has their hands on it, and Google hasn't said anything.

[jsiv]

They've stated it's not the same "OS". No more, no less.

[Ducky]

They've stated it's not the same "OS". No more, no less.

Which doesn't lend credence to any speculation that it's the same windowing system.

The iPhone doesn't use the same windowing system as OS X proper, yet they share a kernel (Darwin). They may share libraries like CoreAnimation, but that's not the same windowing system as a whole. Android and their new OS may both use a linux kernel, but I do not think they would adapt a windowing system intended for embedded phone use to a full blown OS. That's really inventing more work than they need considering they could brand and adapt an already existing windowing system that uses xorg libs like XFCE or gnome and share whatever libs from android they want for their animations or special shiny effects. That's not the same as using android as their windowing system, however.

Considering the Android windowing system only allows for one app at a time (like the iphone does - this isn't really windowing) I doubt they'd use it as a whole. It's intended for single app use at a time on a small embedded device not use as a desktop/laptop OS.

While I am happy to be wrong, there's nothing to show either position is correct. Speculation is speculation.

So I prefer to see either Google specifically describe exactly what the windowing system will be, or get my hands on the OS itself and tear through it before I start condemning their use of something.

[jsiv]

Does it only allow one window, or is that just an artificial limitation imposed on the window manager because of the nature of the device? One that you would simply change when adapting it to a computer and adding things like draggable borders and title bars? Chances are the answer is yes. There's no inherent reason that it wouldn't scale or make a solid foundation for the desktop graphics/windowing system.

I'm not sure where this "condemning" part comes from, it certainly doesn't come from me. I have no issue with them reusing technology they've already spend lots of time and money developing. Why would I?

[Ducky]

Does it only allow one window, or is that just an artificial limitation imposed on the window manager because of the nature of the device? One that you would simply change when adapting it to a computer and adding things like draggable borders and title bars? Chances are the answer is yes. There's no inherent reason that it wouldn't scale or make a solid foundation for the desktop graphics/windowing system.

I'm not sure where this "condemning" part comes from, it certainly doesn't come from me. I have no issue with them reusing technology they've already spend lots of time and money developing. Why would I?

It only has one display. It's a rendering aspect, not a "windowing system." While we've been using that term, it's not accurate. You can only have one app open at a time to view. This is a limitation of not only it being on extremely small hardware display, but also for the fact that it is designed to go on small hardware displays. iPhone, Blackberry, Palm etc. all do things along this line. It's not intended to have multiple displays of apps, even if you can have those processes running at the same time. It's not intended to be a window manager in the same way that metacity, or kwm are.

It would be much easier to add the library support for apps on android to an existing windowing system than it would be to reinvent the wheel. Since they're already using an existing kernel, it tends to follow they would adapt the windowing system for it as well (of which there are many to choose from in linux. Gnome, KDE, XFCE, LXDE etc.) All of which use xorg for their base. While they may create the chrome window manager, it will probably sit on top of xorg just like gnome and kde do.

So unless Google were to explicitly say "we're porting android to an operating system wholesale" (which they have directly said they are not doing) it's a pretty good bet they're not going to use android's display libraries in the way you're describing it.


ETA: The expectation you're condemning this came from this post:

It's worse than just another Linux distribution, because they're using their own windowing system (from Android?) rather than X11, which means it won't even be able to run all the existing Linux applications.


ETA2: Asus made similar claims about a "new" windowing system when they were developing their eeePC. It turned out to be a xandros distro with their own crafted GUI of xorg driven windowing. I don't expect much different here. While they may add the android libs for support in whatever they do, I don't see them completely reinventing the wheel for a linux based netbook OS.


ETA3: As always, I am happy to be shown wrong.

[CelticRose]

The monkey_bites blog had an interesting article yesterday posing a few questions about Google's new OS. Five Questions About Google Chrome OS (http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/Five_Questions_About_Google_Chrome_OS)

I'd be interested to hear what y'all think about the questions he raises, particularly this one:

Is the world ready for the cloud?

Forget connection issues, Wi-Fi dead zones and the potential security and privacy risks involved with hosting your data in cloud, what about far more basic issues — how are you going to get music on your iPod? How will you run games? How will you print a document?

I don't know as much about computers as some people on this forum, but I think a lot of what he has to say makes sense. What do y'all think?

[GreNME]

The big dispute here seems to be over the announcement on the blog linked earlier that the windowing system was going to be rewritten. However, considering the type of blog it was and the fact that they weren't being too technical, my guess is that they weren't being as literal as jsiv seems to be implying. They would need to spend a whole lot longer than is practical to rewrite something completely to replace X11. There's just too much too it, even for Google.

Google tends to strive for simplicity, not re-writing the moustrap. The chances are higher that the blog post was talking about the window manager, not the windowing system.

[Valiss]

A bit more info:
tech.slashdot.org/story/09/07/09/1243231/Google-Reveals-Chrome-Hardware-Partners

[AgeGap]

Seen a print article which says that it will be based on this. Link (http://www.thinkgos.com/gos/index.html)

[GreNME]

Seen a print article which says that it will be based on this. Link (http://www.thinkgos.com/gos/index.html)

That looks remarkably like Mac OS with the Dashboard up. I feel pretty certain Steve Jobs would give live birth to a rhinoceros before he'd allow for something like that.

[Ducky]

That looks remarkably like Mac OS with the Dashboard up. I feel pretty certain Steve Jobs would give live birth to a rhinoceros before he'd allow for something like that.

It is also an operating system that uses xorg.

[AgeGap]

That looks remarkably like Mac OS with the Dashboard up. I feel pretty certain Steve Jobs would give live birth to a rhinoceros before he'd allow for something like that.

I have used OpenGeu and this has the same layout. Based on Ubuntu it uses the Enlightenment window manager. It is a very good looking distro.

It is also an operating system that uses xorg.

The big dispute here seems to be over the announcement on the blog linked earlier that the windowing system was going to be rewritten.... Google tends to strive for simplicity, not re-writing the moustrap.

The article outlined the similarities between what gOS/cloud is and what google want. Also the board of gOS are/were closely linked to google.

Philosophy

Good OS's mantra is "Be good" because of our goal to be a good partner to PC companies, and to make good software for PC users. Quoted from http://www.thinkgos.com/company/index.html

Versus "Don't be evil" the informal corporate motto of Google.

Plenty of smoking knolls to be getting on with.

[GreNME]

I have used OpenGeu and this has the same layout. Based on Ubuntu it uses the Enlightenment window manager. It is a very good looking distro.

I believe you. There are theme packages in both Linux and Windows that turn the desktop into something that resembles MacOS. That's not what I'm talking about, since those have been around for years. If netbooks start popping up with default desktops resembling MacOS that heavily from the start, you can count on Jobs taking notice.

[laca]

It's worse than just another Linux distribution, because they're using their own windowing system (from Android?) rather than X11, which means it won't even be able to run all the existing Linux applications.

That would be unfortunate indeed... However, most linux apps do not use xorg libs directly, but through gtk, qt or some type of "middleware". So basically Google only needs those middlewares supporting its windowing system too.

[Oliver]

You do realise that Google's customers are the people who place advertisements with them.

Those of us who use Google's technology are the product. Saying "hey look Google is giving us something for free" is the same as pigs saying "hey look, the farmer is feeding us for free" except that our fate will probably not be as extreme as being bacon sandwiches.


You think that Google OS will be full of ads?

[AgeGap]

Google Chrome First Official Screenshots (http://gizmodo.com/5408514/google-chrome-first-official-screenshots-%5Bupdating-live%5D)

Tabbed OS. Need to buy specific netbooks with GoogleChromeOS installed. Cloud based. No support for Hard Drives only Solid State. Open source.

[Ducky]

So in other words, it appears to not be Android repackaged, It's a linux-based kernel written specifically only for certain hardware using a custom windowing system on top of xorg libraries.

(I'm pulling it now to check it out in VM)

jsiv, have you checked it out yet? I'd be interested in your impressions of the architecture.

[popscythe]

It's only for netbooks.

Aka "who cares".

I had really hoped we were looking at a windows competitor here.