So I Just posted This Thread On David Icke Forum

[Squidgy]

David Icke and Alex Jones are manipulating us for money and fame. Please guys, get your head out of the clouds. I realised last week that there is not enough evidence to support the claims of these guys. They are just duping everyone for money. I don't expect you to believe me but please, just think about it. I am not a dis-info agent or anything daft like that, I am a truther who saw through the lies just last week. Just look at all angles, please.
Pull yourself out of this madness.

I wonder how long the thread will last and what kind of responses I will get ;)

[Donal]

Do they call themselves truthers?

[Squidgy]

Do they call themselves truthers?
Last time I checked yes. Or Truth Seekers.

[Squidgy]

I need to pull myself together!!

[Squidgy]

I am also expectd to prove that reptilians don't exist.

[Squidgy]

Quote:
"Prove they do exist."
That's your response? Instead of answering me, you ignore it and want me to do so. Well, I guess I must. Then I would hope that this would be an intelligent enough discussion that you would return the favor and answer me.

I already mentioned the Serpent in the Garden of Eden as told in the Bible and Qu'ran. The Sumerian Tablets (Sumerians were one of the earliest urban societies to emerge in the world, in Southern Mesopotamia more than 5000 years ago) tell of the Anunnaki; a race of beings from Nibiru who assisted in creating Humans by taking the indigenous beings on Earth and splicing their own DNA with that of the Aliens. Anunnaki beings were called the Serpent People.

Sumerian tablets depict snake-faced men, along side depictions of very Nordic-looking, sometimes bearded men. For example, the following is a depiction of a reptilian being in Sumerian Art.



Throughout the records of history and as long as cultures have existed, there have been accounts recorded of a serpent race existing. Depictions of Reptilian / Serpent gods are not without abundance in ancient civilizations throughout the globe.

To this very date in Asia, dragons signify divine or royal heritage, while here in the West, the Serpent represents wisdom or knowledge. The two entwined Serpents coiled around a staff (originally signifying the biblical tree of knowledge, known as the caduceus) is today used by the American Medical Association, formerly the symbol of the Genesis/Creator Scientist EnKi as recorded in the Sumerian Tablets. In the UK you will also find thousands of Dragons and Serpents used as symbols of royalty and in business logos amongst other things.

The story of Philip Schneider in relation to this subject is just one of the most amazing. Philip was a Geologist who was cleared to do top secret work at the Dulce airbase underground facility and what he witnessed there changed his entire life. When he decided to go public with the information that he had, there were no less than thirteen assassination attempts on him before he was found murdered,he is not alone and others who have attempted to speak out have also ended up dead.

Here is a great link as a starting point for further research:

http://www.squidoo.com/ReptilianHumanoids

Now, it's your turn....
__________________

Yikes :eek:

[Peace]

When you're home alone, do you talk to yourself much?

[JoeyDonuts]

Expect to be called a government plant, or worse - a reptilian.

[LightinDarkness]

I am also expectd to prove that reptilians don't exist.

You should demand that they prove purple unicorn's don't live on David Icke's head. Since were proving negatives and all.

[Trojan_Jockey]

You should demand that they prove purple unicorn's don't live on David Icke's head. Since were proving negatives and all.

Strangely, they demand you supply evidence for things they don't believe. Just try it.

[SkepticGuy]

David Icke and Alex Jones are manipulating us for money and fame...
I wonder how long the thread will last and what kind of responses I will get ;)

Your statements about Icke/Jones could apply to any "news entertainer" such as Glenn Beck, Rachel Maddow, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Keith Olberman, Michael Moore... and so on.

Same techniques, different topics. (shrug)

[T.A.M.]

Your statements about Icke/Jones could apply to any "news entertainer" such as Glenn Beck, Rachel Maddow, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Keith Olberman, Michael Moore... and so on.

Same techniques, different topics. (shrug)

I dunno. While the ones you have mentioned certainly are opinionated, they tend to base those opinions on facts, not snake oil...that is the difference, IMO. (well Beck might be a bit different, as he has recently gone off the rails).

Comparing Rachel Maddow to Alex Jones is just...wrong!

TAM:)

[fitzgibbon]

Your statements about Icke/Jones could apply to any "news entertainer" such as Glenn Beck, Rachel Maddow, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Keith Olberman, Michael Moore... and so on.

Same techniques, different topics. (shrug)

C'mon SO, you can't really be serious can you? Icke/Jones are generally guilty of making stuff up out of whole cloth and at best, there might be a small kernel of truth somewhere in their original wooish spins. To pretend otherwise is to be either disingenuous at best or at worst delusional.

[Squidgy]

'Moved to Conspiratainment'

[Squidgy]

wtf does that mean?

[Squidgy]

When you're home alone, do you talk to yourself much?
Yes

[Squidgy]

Reveal yourself coward

[Squidgy]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71819

[SkepticGuy]

C'mon SO, you can't really be serious can you? Icke/Jones are generally guilty of making stuff up out of whole cloth...

Each of the names I mentioned are but a short list of newsvertainment personalities who regularly "make stuff up" and exaggerate facts so as to be indistinguishable from "made up stuff" in order to pander to their respective audiences. (Didn't even mention O'Reily because he's a given)

Jones actually rarely "makes up stuff," he just pulls form, and sensationalizes contemporary conspiracy mythos. He's the guy at the other end of the spectrum from Limbaugh.

While's Icke's reptilian ideas may seem "made up" on the surface, it's actually just extensions of a lot of material already in the wild, or contemporized ancient cryptozoology rumors and superstitions.

[fitzgibbon]

Each of the names I mentioned are but a short list of newsvertainment personalities who regularly "make stuff up"

F'rinstance? Where's the slew of whole cloth stories?


Jones actually rarely "makes up stuff," he just pulls form, and sensationalizes contemporary conspiracy mythos.

Like I said, whole cloth. Jones wouldn't know a fact if it hit him in the gob like a trout.


While's Icke's reptilian ideas may seem "made up" on the surface, it's actually just extensions of a lot of material already in the wild, or contemporized ancient cryptozoology rumors and superstitions.

Whole cloth by another name. Thanks for the clarification.

[sleeplessdwarf]

I dunno. While the ones you have mentioned certainly are opinionated, they tend to base those opinions on facts, not snake oil...that is the difference, IMO. (well Beck might be a bit different, as he has recently gone off the rails).

Comparing Rachel Maddow to Alex Jones is just...wrong!

TAM:)

Watch Glenn Beck often? His apple is planted pretty close to AJ's.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

While's Icke's reptilian ideas may seem "made up" on the surface, it's actually just extensions of a lot of material already in the wild, or contemporized ancient cryptozoology rumors and superstitions.


Is the point you're trying to make that David Icke, for instance, doesn't just make stuff up, because he's really only mashing together things that other people made up?

[SkepticGuy]

Is the point you're trying to make that David Icke, for instance, doesn't just make stuff up, because he's really only mashing together things that other people made up?

Icke combines a lot of ancient cryptozoological themes, with some NWO paranoia, into a mashup... yes.

However, his soup contains old ingredients not of his making.

There are several cultures that have legends of "reptilian" creatures resembling men in one form or another. Some biblical passages can even be interpreted to reference "lizard men," and the Myans and Egyptians had complex legends as well. Whether these stories are pure mythology resulting from man's inherent fear of reptiles is anyone's guess... but the stories are out there and he capitalizes on them.

Which is, on the surface, pretty much the same as Olberman making stuff up about Bush, or Limbaugh making stuff up about Obama... sensationalized interpretations of questionable information.

[JoeyDonuts]

Which is, on the surface, pretty much the same as Olberman making stuff up about Bush, or Limbaugh making stuff up about Obama... sensationalized interpretations of questionable information.

With one notable exception - George Bush and Barack Obama indisputably exist. Is it simply your impression that he's intentionally created an amalgam of older conspiratorial/cryptozoology themes, or do you have personal knowledge that this is the case?

[1337m4n]

That, and believing that, say, Bush stole the 2004 election doesn't require as much blatant insanity as believing that Bush is an evil reptile being from Vogon.

[Mikister]

A surprisingly normal level of cognitive coherency is displayed by this David Icke enthusiast. However, his arguments have absolutely no merit.

I already mentioned the Serpent in the Garden of Eden as told in the Bible and Qu'ran. The Sumerian Tablets (Sumerians were one of the earliest urban societies to emerge in the world, in Southern Mesopotamia more than 5000 years ago) tell of the Anunnaki; a race of beings from Nibiru who assisted in creating Humans by taking the indigenous beings on Earth and splicing their own DNA with that of the Aliens. Anunnaki beings were called the Serpent People.

Sumerian tablets depict snake-faced men, along side depictions of very Nordic-looking, sometimes bearded men. For example, the following is a depiction of a reptilian being in Sumerian Art.

TL;DR Version:

Religious fables and ancient legends depict personified reptiles.
Therefore, humanoid reptilian aliens exist.

Religious fables and ancient legends entangled with the supposedly factual humanoid reptiles do not constitute a reputable source. If personified reptiles suggests reptilian aliens, do personified horses, bulls, and cattle like the minotaur suggest bonvinae aliens? Humanoid animals of various species have played an important role in civilizations, religions, and stories, yet these do not imply their factuality.

To this very date in Asia, dragons signify divine or royal heritage, while here in the West, the Serpent represents wisdom or knowledge. The two entwined Serpents coiled around a staff (originally signifying the biblical tree of knowledge, known as the caduceus) is today used by the American Medical Association, formerly the symbol of the Genesis/Creator Scientist EnKi as recorded in the Sumerian Tablets. In the UK you will also find thousands of Dragons and Serpents used as symbols of royalty and in business logos amongst other things.


TL;DR Version:

Usage of reptilian symbolism is common.
Therefore, humanoid reptilians operate organizations and governments.

From any conspiracy theorist, you can always expect that interpretive symbolism will mean something deeply disturbing to them, even if such symbols have mundane origins. As with the previous argument, this does not imply anything beyond that people use animal symbolism in accordance with their traits, such as intelligence, persistence, and strength.

While reptiles do play prominent roles in symbolism, why does this suggest the existence of reptilian aliens? By this standard, wouldn't the numerous symbols including eagles and lions imply that the creators are accipitridae or pathera aliens?

The story of Philip Schneider in relation to this subject is just one of the most amazing. Philip was a Geologist who was cleared to do top secret work at the Dulce airbase underground facility and what he witnessed there changed his entire life. When he decided to go public with the information that he had, there were no less than thirteen assassination attempts on him before he was found murdered,he is not alone and others who have attempted to speak out have also ended up dead.

TL;DR Version:

Philip Schneider claimed to have witnessed a gunfight between government agents and grey aliens, which killed 66 people at Dulce Base.
Therefore, aliens exist.

I tend not to regard these people as reputable, unless they have some evidence, which they don't. The suspect in question would eventually commit suicide with a piano wire, an unsurprisingly conclusion to a life severely rife with paranoia, though some say he was murdered.

[Mikister]

Squidgy, did you say that you were once a believer of David Icke's ideas?

[Squidgy]

Squidgy, did you say that you were once a believer of David Icke's ideas?
Some of it yes but the reptilian stuff discredited everything else he said. He says that stuff but there is not a shread of evidence other than ancient myths.

[fitzgibbon]

Guess you missed this request for clarification from you SO


Each of the names I mentioned are but a short list of newsvertainment personalities who regularly "make stuff up" and exaggerate facts so as to be indistinguishable from "made up stuff" in order to pander to their respective audiences. (Didn't even mention O'Reily because he's a given)

F'rinstance? Where's the slew of whole cloth stories?

Comparing Icke/Jones to anyone on conventional broadcast/cablecast is like comparing an apple to a CF18. The editorialists may exaggerate to a degree to make a point but their editorials aren't built on a complete foundation of exaggeration and outright Bravo Sierra the way Icke/Jones' are.

There's a reason that Icke/Jones need the distribution medium they use. They've both needed years to weave webs of woo wide enough to ensnare enough gullible addled old and fingerling trout to reach the threshold they're at.

They'e both certifiable and no amount of multisyllabic nomenclature on your part is going to make the kettle less black.

[Alex Libman]

I have posted things like that on religious FidoNet and Usenet groups when I was like 12... Then I grew up and decided that life is too short to worry about other people's irrational beliefs, as long as they don't force those beliefs on others through violence.

As for Alex Jones, he does serve a useful purpose. In fact, even if the allegations made on his show were 100% random, that would still be the case - even a stopped (analog) clock is right twice a day, and the odds of any alleged government conspiracy theory being true are more like 1 in 5 rather than 1 in 720. Skepticism of a violent monopoly (i.e. government) is always good, even when its wrong, because when you violate the non-aggression principle the burden of proof is on you. Alex Jones doesn't need to prove that the government is doing something evil behind the closed doors, its enough that he reminds people that those closed doors exist!

[Squidgy]

I have posted things like that on religious FidoNet and Usenet groups when I was like 12... Then I grew up and decided that life is too short to worry about other people's irrational beliefs, as long as they don't force those beliefs on others through violence.

Fair point. I guess I hoped I could help people.

[fitzgibbon]

Equating Jones with a clock does an injustice to clocks. Clocks are useful and even when stopped can continue to be so. Jones and Icke don't have the centre pin to revolve around; they just spin wildly around nothing in particular, self-referential to the end. If Jones actually did what you claim, you'd have a point. But instead, he points at the closed door and starts making the rest up on the fly from there. Real useful that!

Plus I'd love to know what orifice you pulled your odds from.

[Alex Libman]

Um, I've compared him to a stopped clock with no second hand and that's still not good enough for you? Stop being so black'n'white, there are many shades of gray to this.

And, yes, enumerating his accuracy can only be a guesstimate, but his coverage of non-conspiracy-related police state news is pretty good. His coverage during the NATO power-grab in South Ossetia, for example, puts the rest of the U.S. media to shame.

[Checkmite]

Some of it yes but the reptilian stuff discredited everything else he said. He says that stuff but there is not a shread of evidence other than ancient myths.

They don't even get the ancient myths right, though. The Sumerian Annunaki have nothing to do with lizards or UFOs; rather, they are demigods - nothing more or less special. Wikipedia actually surprises the heck out of me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annunaki) by having a decent, if short, article about what they really were vis-a-vis Sumerian mythology, and you won't find the slightest hint of DNA experimentation or coming to earth in flying saucers.

...unless you pull the Sitchin trick and decide that when a Sumerian cylinder says something like "so-and-so of the Annunaki took Mersha the miserable peasant lady into his bed and conceived Arki, who was lord of fermented palm dates", what it's really talking about is an alien abduction and hybrid fertilization. It's the same twisty, convenient logic that lets him translate "houses in the sky" into "spaceships", and "decended from the gods" into "(literally) descended out of the sky (in spaceships)". People who infuse their odd lizard-esque references into Sumerian texts are kind of like Alex Jones declaring that the giant owl statue at the Bohemian Grove represents Molech, despite Molech being a bull and never having been represented by an owl by any culture, ever.

[fitzgibbon]

Um, I've compared him to a stopped clock with no second hand and that's still not good enough for you?

No for the reasons that you seem to have overlooked. To whit, because (to use your clock analogy) you presume that his hands are even on the face. I was saying that his gears are all over Hade's half-acre and he isn't even on the face of the clock twice a day.

Geddit?


And, yes, enumerating his accuracy can only be a guesstimate, but his coverage of non-conspiracy-related police state news is pretty good.

I was asking YOU where YOU got your 1-in-5 figure from. I'm still waiting


His coverage during the NATO power-grab in South Ossetia, for example, puts the rest of the U.S. media to shame.

Jones sees black and white in the 'yer either for us or agin us' mode. He's a buffoon.

[T.A.M.]

Each of the names I mentioned are but a short list of newsvertainment personalities who regularly "make stuff up" and exaggerate facts so as to be indistinguishable from "made up stuff" in order to pander to their respective audiences. (Didn't even mention O'Reily because he's a given)

Jones actually rarely "makes up stuff," he just pulls form, and sensationalizes contemporary conspiracy mythos. He's the guy at the other end of the spectrum from Limbaugh.

While's Icke's reptilian ideas may seem "made up" on the surface, it's actually just extensions of a lot of material already in the wild, or contemporized ancient cryptozoology rumors and superstitions.

I don't have the time to find it now, but somewhere here on this forum, there was a LIST (a big one) of things that AJ INVENTS.

Off the top of my head, he invented a completely false story line involving Odigo surrounding 9/11. Yes there was a seed or two of truth within it, but it was largely invented in AJ's head. he is a moron of the highest order.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

Watch Glenn Beck often? His apple is planted pretty close to AJ's.

No I do not watch him often. I think you misread what I said. I meant Glenn Beck is an acception, in that comparing him to AJ is ACCURATE, unlike comparing Rachel Maddow to AJ.

TAM:)

[Squidgy]

I don't have the time to find it now, but somewhere here on this forum, there was a LIST (a big one) of things that AJ INVENTS.

Off the top of my head, he invented a completely false story line involving Odigo surrounding 9/11. Yes there was a seed or two of truth within it, but it was largely invented in AJ's head. he is a moron of the highest order.

TAM:)
Is he? Or is he a genius?

[fitzgibbon]

He's a moron. No way to parse moron to cover genius in his case.

[T.A.M.]

Is he? Or is he a genius?

It is an interesting question. One could make an argument, that more than any other, AJ,

1. Knows his market
2. Provides them with the highest quality product.

In this way, he may be a true marketing genius.

The big question, is whether he believes his own crap, in which case he is a lucky moron, or not, in which case he is a manipulating genius.

TAM:)

[1337m4n]

Skepticism of a violent monopoly (i.e. government) is always good, even when its wrong

So I can accuse the town mayor of raping babies and the burden of proof in on HIM to prove otherwise?

You, sir, are a moron.

[LightinDarkness]

And, yes, enumerating his accuracy can only be a guesstimate, but his coverage of non-conspiracy-related police state news is pretty good. His coverage during the NATO power-grab in South Ossetia, for example, puts the rest of the U.S. media to shame.

Police state news? Please do not use terms you do not understand. If we were in a police state, you wouldn't be able to post such fantasies.

Please give an example of "police state news" which AJ covered that was really good. There was no NATO "power-grab" in South Ossetia.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

If we were in a police state, you wouldn't be able to post such fantasies.


Uh oh! http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=147844 :)

Yes, yes, I'm sure a lot of us know that he wasn't banned for the comment you quoted, but still...

[Squidgy]

Why was he banned?

[Klimax]

Why was he banned?

See:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=147878
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=147826
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=147842

[Squidgy]

Thanks Klimax.

[CORed]

Last time I checked yes. Or Truth Seekers.

And there's a Seeker born every minute.

(Yes, I stole that from the Firesign Theater.)