Atheists, what is your definition of God?

[yrreg]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.

From my own part as a theist, I define God thus in three words:


Maker of everything.




I belong to the Christian tradition in regard to my definition of God.



I just wish that I can have a clear idea of what is God for the atheists, so that I can be definite exactly what God they are claiming not to know for certain or to deny existence to.


Please be brief in words, because when people use so many words to say what they intend to convey to people like myself, I have the suspicion that they either don't know what they are talking about, or they cannot use clear words to convey what they do know.

In which case they should think more carefully exactly what they do know about what they want to convey to people, and also choose carefully the fewest words that can deliver the exact ideas of what they know.


Otherwise I will tell them to go away from this thread, so as not to waste the time of readers here and the forum's bandwidth.





Yrreg


Uncorrected version:

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.

From my own part as a theist, I define God thus in four words:


Maker of everything.




I belong to the Christian tradition in regard to my definition of God.



I just wish that I can have a clear idea of what is God for the atheists, so that I can be definite exactly what God they are claiming not to know for certain or to deny existence to.


Please be brief in words, because when people use so many words to say what they intend to convey to people like myself, I have the suspicion that they either don't know what they are talking about, or they cannot use clear words to convey what they do know.

In which case they should think more carefully exactly what they do know about what they want to convey to people, and also choose carefully the fewest words that can deliver the exact ideas of what they know.


Otherwise I will tell them to go away from this thread, so as not to waste the time of readers here and the forum's bandwidth.





Yrreg

[Agatha]

Which god?

[laca]

Oh my. Asking atheists about the definition of god... How stupid can you get?

[John Jones]

Not this again!

[IMST]

From my own part as a theist, I define God thus in four words:


Maker of everything.



Bwahahaha.
Thank you for that.
By your math, here's my 17.3 word definition.

A fictional concept with many definitions depending on those unaware it is fictional.

[paximperium]

A mythological social construct with no set definition and no set attributes spread by memes and indoctrinations.

[Fireshadow]

How many times do you have to be told that just because you start a thread on a public forum does not mean that it belongs to you, and does not convey any right to dictate to the other members of the forum how they respond to you?

In response to the question, I don't define god. The reason I don't define god is because I don't believe one exists. I've encountered in my life many different definitions of god, and yours, as maker of everything (which is 3 words, btw, not 4) is nothing new.
None of the various denominations that actually believe in god can come to a complete consensus on the meaning of the word. How, then, do you expect people who don't believe in god, and therefore have no useful reason for defining the concept, to have an explanation which you will understand? God is the term of theists--athiests when arguing against it have to argue against the definition as given by the theist with which they are conversing.

[Third Eye Open]

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/thrdeyeopen/picard-headesk.jpg

[Twiler]

Diagram:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_26988495a9a147df24.png (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14726)

YHVH is just another myth.

[JFrankA]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.

From my own part as a theist, I define God thus in four words:


Maker of everything.




I belong to the Christian tradition in regard to my definition of God.



I just wish that I can have a clear idea of what is God for the atheists, so that I can be definite exactly what God they are claiming not to know for certain or to deny existence to.


Please be brief in words, because when people use so many words to say what they intend to convey to people like myself, I have the suspicion that they either don't know what they are talking about, or they cannot use clear words to convey what they do know.

In which case they should think more carefully exactly what they do know about what they want to convey to people, and also choose carefully the fewest words that can deliver the exact ideas of what they know.


Otherwise I will tell them to go away from this thread, so as not to waste the time of readers here and the forum's bandwidth.





Yrreg

Waaaaay too many words. I can define god in one word:

nonexistent

[JFrankA]

By the way, I'm taking bets on how long it would take before Gerry here says "PM me" :)

[RoboTimbo]

because when people use so many words to say what they intend to convey to people like myself, I have the suspicion that they either don't know what they are talking about, or they cannot use clear words to convey what they do know.

Yrreg

You got this part correct.

[Agatha]

Yrreg, can you define the teapot which is not actually orbiting the earth, the teapot in which neither you nor I believe?

What colour is this non-existent teapot, and what other attributes does it have?

If you cannot explain, with evidence, what colour the teapot is, you will begin to understand why an atheist finds no meaning in your demand to define a god.

[aggle-rithm]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.


Why? Why? Why do you do this to yourself? And to others?

[roger]

Our nada who art in nada, nada be thy name thy kingdom nada thy will be nada as it is in nada. Give us this nada our daily nada and nada us our nada as we nada our nadas and nada us not into nada but deliver us from nada; pues nada. Hail nothing full

[RoboTimbo]

yrreG, how do you define the Invisible Pink Unicorn? How do you define Santa Claus? How do you define The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

I know the irony will sail completely over your head but can you at least try?

[linusrichard]

I've already disproved God according to yrreg's daffynition.


How's this for a definition: any being not entirely subject to the laws of physics.

I realize that's very broad, but as I was thinking about it, most other things are too narrow. After all, within the human imagination,
- There are "gods" who are not immortal.
- There are "gods" who are not omniscient.
- There are "gods" who are not omnipotent.
- There are "gods" who didn't create the universe, the earth, humanity, etc.
- There are "gods" who interact with the world and humanity and appear to be at least somewhat subject to the laws of the universe.

But, it seems like every "god" has some supernatural quality or ability, and I thought a good way to break that down would be not subject to the laws of physics. But then I thought, I think there are some "gods" out there who are subject to some laws of physics. So I changed it to not entirely subject to the laws of physics.

But what about superheroes? Superman and Spiderman appear to have supernatural powers. But they are not considered "gods." I think that's okay, because I think creators of comics usually come up with explanations - that the strange abilities are actually within the laws of physics, not outside them.

So, yeah, that'll be my definition.


ETA:

I just wish that I can have a clear idea of what is God for the atheists, so that I can be definite exactly what God they are claiming not to know for certain or to deny existence to.
Well, nobody is qualified to speak for "the atheists," so it's impossible to get what you're asking for. But as for my part, when I say I don't believe in God, I don't just mean that I don't believe in God as I've defined it. I don't believe in any god or any concept of god I've ever heard of. So if you have some new concept of god, or new to me, feel free to put it out there, if you want to know if I believe in it or not. Not sure why you'd care. But no, my disbelief extends to every god and category of god I know of.

Please be brief in words, because when people use so many words to say what they intend to convey to people like myself, I have the suspicion that they either don't know what they are talking about, or they cannot use clear words to convey what they do know.
Oh the irony. Anyway, mine was nine words, so that's only 5 or 6 words (depending on how you count it) more than yours.

In which case they should think more carefully exactly what they do know about what they want to convey to people, and also choose carefully the fewest words that can deliver the exact ideas of what they know.

Otherwise I will tell them to go away from this thread, so as not to waste the time of readers here and the forum's bandwidth.
Sweet delicious irony. No, yrreg, you wouldn't want people wasting people's time and bandwidth. You wouldn't want someone to use more words than necessary to convey their ideas. No sir.

[jond]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.

Something I don't believe in.

5 words, two more than you.

[Fiona]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=131578&highlight=explanatory+concept

People please; can we at least not respond to stuff we have already done to death.

[nescafe]

If you were to insist on me having a definition of God, it would be equivalent to:
\emptyset

[zooterkin]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.

No, you don't, or you wouldn't need to ask because you've already been told.

I've yet to see the definition of a god I believe in.

[yrreg]

Okay, let's put it this way, describe to me the god(s) you claim to not know or deny existence to.


In not more than ten words.


I define God from my part as a theist of the Christian tradition in three words:

Maker of everything.



And I want to know if that is the God you claim to not know or to deny existence to.



Otherwise, please go away from this thread if you cannot say in only ten words what you do not know or you deny existence to.


Just the same, if you do not know God, I am telling you that for me a theist, God is the maker of everything.

If you deny existence of God the maker of everything, then I will say that you and I we have an impasse on the existence of God; because for me God exists, but for you God does not exist.


So you can go your way and I my way in regard to God's existence, but we can still exist and live as to collaborate making life better for all mankind.





Yrreg

[AkuManiMani]

What is your definition of God?


Whatever a person who wishes to believe in such a thing defines it to be.

[jond]

Okay, let's put it this way, describe to me the god(s) you claim to not know or deny existence to.


In not more than ten words.


I define God from my part as a theist of the Christian tradition in three words:

Maker of everything.



And I want to know if that is the God you claim to not know or to deny existence to.



Otherwise, please go away from this thread if you cannot say in only ten words what you do not know or you deny existence to.


Just the same, if you do not know God, I am telling you that for me a theist, God is the maker of everything.

If you deny existence of God the maker of everything, then I will say that you and I we have an impasse on the existence of God; because for me God exists, but for you God does not exist.


So you can go your way and I my way in regard to God's existence, but we can still exist and live as to collaborate making life better for all mankind.





Yrreg

Cool. I deny the existence of God the maker of everything.

Will you go away to make life better for all mankind now?

[Phage0070]

[indent]...describe to me the god(s) you claim to not know or deny existence to.

All of them.

[RoboTimbo]

If you deny existence of God the maker of everything, then I will say that you and I we have an impasse on the existence of God; because for me God exists, but for you God does not exist.

Yrreg

Take this on board:

1. Atheists don't find compelling evidence for any god(s). Even yours.

[zooterkin]

Okay, let's put it this way, describe to me the god(s) you claim to not know or deny existence to.


All of them.

[linusrichard]

I define God from my part as a theist of the Christian tradition in three words:

Maker of everything.

And I want to know if that is the God you claim to not know or to deny existence to.
Yes, I deny the existence of that god.

Otherwise, please go away from this thread if you cannot say in only ten words what you do not know or you deny existence to.
I have defined god in nine words. I don't believe in what my definition refers to or yours.

Just the same, if you do not know God, I am telling you that for me a theist, God is the maker of everything.
Fair enough.

If you deny existence of God the maker of everything, then I will say that you and I we have an impasse on the existence of God; because for me God exists, but for you God does not exist.

So you can go your way and I my way in regard to God's existence, but we can still exist and live as to collaborate making life better for all mankind.

This is the most sensible thing I have ever seen you post. Does this mean an end to threads like this one?!

[roger]

Okay, let's put it this way, describe to me the god(s) you claim to not know or deny existence to.
In not more than ten words.


I define God from my part as a theist of the Christian tradition in three words:
Maker of everything.

And I want to know if that is the God you claim to not know or to deny existence to.



Otherwise, please go away from this thread if you cannot say in only ten words what you do not know or you deny existence to.


Just the same, if you do not know God, I am telling you that for me a theist, God is the maker of everything.

If you deny existence of God the maker of everything, then I will say that you and I we have an impasse on the existence of God; because for me God exists, but for you God does not exist.


So you can go your way and I my way in regard to God's existence, but we can still exist and live as to collaborate making life better for all mankind.





YrregI would amend that to "intelligent, conscious, maker of everything", and would when agree that I lack belief in it.

[Fiona]

We have done this Yrreg. But just one last time:

If you deny existence of God the maker of everything, then I will say that you and I we have an impasse on the existence of God; because for me God exists, but for you God does not exist.

Yes. I deny the existence of that god.

Every atheist here denies the exisitence of that god

You are absolutely correct, there is nothing further to discuss

Now please go away

[nescafe]

Okay, let's put it this way, describe to me the god(s) you claim to not know or deny existence to.In not more than ten words.
There are no gods. There are multiple god concepts.


I define God from my part as a theist of the Christian tradition in three words:Maker of everything.

Good for you. Have an internet.

Why does everything need a maker, again?

And I want to know if that is the God you claim to not know or to deny existence to.
It is one of many gods that do not exist as anything other than a concept.

Otherwise, please go away from this thread if you cannot say in only ten words what you do not know or you deny existence to.
Why should we, when you clearly cannot?

Just the same, if you do not know God, I am telling you that for me a theist, God is the maker of everything.
Yes, you said that already. Do you glory in needless repetition?

If you deny existence of God the maker of everything, then I will say that you and I we have an impasse on the existence of God; because for me God exists, but for you God does not exist.
Indeed. Is this going the be the end of the thread?

So you can go your way and I my way in regard to God's existence, but we can still exist and live as to collaborate making life better for all mankind.
So you agree to drop your meandering pointless threads on the topic of God, Buddhists, etc, and concentrate on more productive things? Awesome.

[paximperium]

Okay, let's put it this way, describe to me the god(s) you claim to not know or deny existence to. All of them(3 words)

[Piscivore]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.

From my own part as a theist, I define God thus in three words:


Maker of everything.

I go by what the theists claim god is, so in your case; "Maker of everything".

There is no evidence that "everything" had a maker and such an entity is not necessary to explain "everything", therefore I don't belive in such an entity.

[Foster Zygote]

I belong to the Christian tradition in regard to my definition of God.
Fine. I define the Christian god as a mythical, anthropomorphic character that exists only in the imaginations of Christians.

I just wish that I can have a clear idea of what is God for the atheists, so that I can be definite exactly what God they are claiming not to know for certain or to deny existence to.
No need to be so specific. Atheists lack belief in the entire concept of gods. It doesn't matter if it's Vishnu, Zeus, Wotan, Ashera, The Aten, Huitzilopitchli, Yahweh or Jesus... If it's something that people claim to exist but for which there is no corroborating evidence then atheists lack belief in it.

Please be brief in words, because when people use so many words to say what they intend to convey to people like myself, I have the suspicion that they either don't know what they are talking about, or they cannot use clear words to convey what they do know.
Would you like us to make a picture book for you?

In which case they should think more carefully exactly what they do know about what they want to convey to people, and also choose carefully the fewest words that can deliver the exact ideas of what they know.
Like "speak economically"?

Otherwise I will tell them to go away from this thread, so as not to waste the time of readers here and the forum's bandwidth.
Of all the people that you've told to "go away", how many actually have? And I wouldn't worry too much about wasting people's time. I'm sure most people come to these threads with the explicit intent of wasting a little time.

[Agatha]

If you deny existence of God the maker of everything, then I will say that you and I we have an impasse on the existence of God; because for me God exists, but for you God does not exist.

Congratulations|! You finally learned something. We do indeed have an impasse. How long have atheists on many boards been trying to explain this impasse to you?

[yrreg]

I say I define God as the maker of everything.

So far I have not come to your definition of God.


Suppose you are asked to contribute your definition of God in a dictionary, and you submit what you are writing in your posts here, the publisher and editors of the dictionary will disregard your writing about God because they are not definitions.



If you care to post in this thread, please first read up on what is a definition and how to formulate a definition of a thing succinctly as to convey to readers what you want to convey as a definition of the thing.


Otherwise, go away, don't waste the time of readers and the forum's bandwidth.


Just the same if you think that you have produced a definition of God that a dictionary publisher can accept, just let me know by pm, and I will bring up your pm with your definition of God and we can discuss your definition and my definition of God.






Yrreg

[SumDood]

God is the maker of everything. He does not exist.

[makaya325]

God- A fault in thinking in the most advanced species on earth.

[RoboTimbo]

I say I define God as the maker of everything.

So far I have not come to your definition of God.


Suppose you are asked to contribute your definition of God in a dictionary, and you submit what you are writing in your posts here, the publisher and editors of the dictionary will disregard your writing about God because they are not definitions.



If you care to post in this thread, please first read up on what is a definition and how to formulate a definition of a thing succinctly as to convey to readers what you want to convey as a definition of the thing.


Otherwise, go away, don't waste the time of readers and the forum's bandwidth.


Just the same if you think that you have produced a definition of God that a dictionary publisher can accept, just let me know by pm, and I will bring up your pm with your definition of God and we can discuss your definition and my definition of God.






Yrreg

For a dictionary definition, look in a dictionary. Or go ask a 7 year old who you've already brainwashed.

[paximperium]

I say I define God as the maker of everything.

So far I have not come to your definition of God.
Strange.
A mythological social construct with no set definition and no set attributes spread by memes and indoctrinations.



Otherwise, go away, don't waste the time of readers and the forum's bandwidth. You first.

Just the same if you think that you have produced a definition of God that a dictionary publisher can accept, just let me know by pm, and I will bring up your pm with your definition of God and we can discuss your definition and my definition of God. Now that's just creepy.

[Correa Neto]

A non-existing entity with outstanding supernatural powers; according to many definitions, responsible for the creation of everything. Most people belive on it but there are no pieces of reliable evidence backing it as something real.

[RoboTimbo]

Strange.

Almost as if he were deliberately lying.

[kerikiwi]

By the way, I'm taking bets on how long it would take before Gerry here says "PM me" :)

He did it! He did it!

[kbm99]

With apologies to Brando:

Gerry: What gods are you not believing in, atheists?

Atheists: Whaddya got?

[JFrankA]

I say I define God as the maker of everything.

So far I have not come to your definition of God.


Suppose you are asked to contribute your definition of God in a dictionary, and you submit what you are writing in your posts here, the publisher and editors of the dictionary will disregard your writing about God because they are not definitions.



If you care to post in this thread, please first read up on what is a definition and how to formulate a definition of a thing succinctly as to convey to readers what you want to convey as a definition of the thing.


Otherwise, go away, don't waste the time of readers and the forum's bandwidth.


Just the same if you think that you have produced a definition of God that a dictionary publisher can accept, just let me know by pm, and I will bring up your pm with your definition of God and we can discuss your definition and my definition of God.






Yrreg

*sigh* Okay. I'll bite. But remember you forced me to use MORE WORDS!

My definition of god:

A belief in a "maker of everything", really is untrue.

There. ten words.


Want a haiku, too?

[Piscivore]

I say I define God as the maker of everything.

So far I have not come to your definition of God.
I'm okay with yours, see post #33 (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4889208&postcount=33).

Just the same if you think that you have produced a definition of God that a dictionary publisher can accept, just let me know by pm, and I will bring up your pm with your definition of God and we can discuss your definition and my definition of God.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god–noun
1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
2. the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.
3. (lowercase) one of several deities, esp. a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
4. (often lowercase) a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy.
5. Christian Science. the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, Love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle.
6. (lowercase) an image of a deity; an idol.
7. (lowercase) any deified person or object.
Part of the beauty of English, but that nonetheless gives people no end of trouble sometimes, is that the same word can mean many different contradictory things. I think #1 is what you are after, and I don't belive in that.

[RoboTimbo]

yrreG, here is a link to an encyclopedia entry on Poseiden.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579209/Poseidon.html

Do you believe Poseiden is the god of the sea?

Here is a Wiki entry on Thor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor

Do you believe Thor is the god of Thunder, son of Odin?

[JFrankA]

Yrreg, what is your attitude on suicide, murder?

Is there any obligation binding you not to commit suicide, murder?

What about the fact the Abrahamic God ordered murder and even genocide? Would you obey such an order without qualm or question?

Please answer in ten words or fewer.

(Just in case he has Z, The Fire and realpaladin on ignore)

Gerry, you are still using know as a synonym of believe. In English, the two words do not have the same meaning and cannot be used interchangeably.

In case he's got everyone above plus Agatha on ignore.

....plus also, I didn't want to be left out....


Oh and in case he's got Fiona on ignore:


Yrreg, I know this is really, really hard for you to understand: but we do not know what you think about suicide and murder. That is because you have not told us.

Now try to concentrate, because this next bit is a bit complicated for you. We atheists have this wee peculiarity. We do not assume we know the answers before we ask the questions. I will say that again: We do not assume we know the answers before we ask the questions.

The questions have been set out for you several times in the last few posts. So even though this a strange way of proceeding, from your point of view, why not just humour us and answer them? Can't hurt, can it?

[quixotecoyote]

10 pages minimum. Called at post 49.

[RoboTimbo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor

There's a link to a dictionary definition of a god. Now what?

[USSManhattan]

An entity that is believed by some to have created life, the universe and everything. God is also said to be the entity the oversees everything, and may or may not have a hand in events on Earth. God is also the entity/being that will judge both the good and the wicked after the end of all things.

[Phage0070]

So far I have not come to your definition of God.

Pick one. We don't believe in it.

We don't believe in your concept of God, and we don't have our own definition because we don't believe in one at all.

[Z]

Yrreg, what is your attitude on suicide, murder?

Is there any obligation binding you not to commit suicide, murder?

What about the fact the Abrahamic God ordered murder and even genocide? Would you obey such an order without qualm or question?

Please answer in ten words or less.

[Foster Zygote]

I say I define God as the maker of everything.
You don't say.

So far I have not come to your definition of God.
Really?
A fictional concept with many definitions depending on those unaware it is fictional.
A mythological social construct with no set definition and no set attributes spread by memes and indoctrinations.
YHVH is just another myth.
nonexistent
How's this for a definition: any being not entirely subject to the laws of physics.
Something I don't believe in.
Zero
Whatever a person who wishes to believe in such a thing defines it to be.
I would amend that to "intelligent, conscious, maker of everything", and would when agree that I lack belief in it.
I go by what the theists claim god is, so in your case; "Maker of everything".
I define the Christian god as a mythical, anthropomorphic character that exists only in the imaginations of Christians.
I count eleven prior to your above statement. Perhaps someone would be willing to help you count things in the future.

Suppose you are asked to contribute your definition of God in a dictionary, and you submit what you are writing in your posts here, the publisher and editors of the dictionary will disregard your writing about God because they are not definitions.
How many dictionaries define God as "maker of everything"?

If you care to post in this thread, please first read up on what is a definition and how to formulate a definition of a thing succinctly as to convey to readers what you want to convey as a definition of the thing.
From Merriam-Webster:

Definition

1: an act of determining ; specifically : the formal proclamation of a Roman Catholic dogma
2 a: a statement expressing the essential nature of something b: a statement of the meaning of a word or word group or a sign or symbol <dictionary definitions> c: a product of defining
3: the action or process of defining
4 a: the action or the power of describing, explaining, or making definite and clear <the definition of a telescope> <her comic genius is beyond definition> b (1): clarity of visual presentation : distinctness of outline or detail <improve the definition of an image> (2): clarity especially of musical sound in reproduction c: sharp demarcation of outlines or limits <a jacket with distinct waist definition>

Otherwise, go away, don't waste the time of readers and the forum's bandwidth.
Make me.

Just the same if you think that you have produced a definition of God that a dictionary publisher can accept, just let me know by pm, and I will bring up your pm with your definition of God and we can discuss your definition and my definition of God.
What's with the PM thing, Gerry? Are you really such a control freak? Tell you what: when you show us a dictionary that defines God as "the Christian maker of everything" then we'll talk.

[Ron_Tomkins]

I define God as The maker of everything that is and everything that ever has


Oops! That was eleven words. One word too long. I guess it doesn't count then
Better luck for me next time

[paximperium]

Here is one version of god I don't believe in:
God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God) of Abraham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham), and of Isaac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac), and of Jacob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob), protect your beloved people Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Israel) from all hurt, in your love. As the beloved holy Sabbath goes away, that the week, and the month, and the year, should come to us with perfect faith, with faith in the sages, with love and attachment to good friends, to attachment to the blessed Creator, with belief in your thirteen principles of faith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_principles_of_faith), and in the ultimate redemption (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_messianism), may it be soon, and the Resurrection of the dead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_of_the_dead#Jewish_biblical_views_of_ the_afterlife), and in the prophecy of Moses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses), our teacher, may he rest in peace.

Lord of the world! You are the one who gives strength to the weak! Give your beloved Israelites more health and strength so we can love you and serve you, only you, and no other, Heaven forfend. And the week, and the month, and the year, should come to us with mercy, and health, and auspiciousness, and blessing, and success, and riches and glory, and to children, and long life, and abundant food, and Divine providence, for us and all Israel, and let us say, Amen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen)'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_Abraham

[kerikiwi]

Tell you what: when you show us a dictionary that defines God as "the Christian maker of everything" then we'll talk.

I would be very wary of asking Gerry to refer to a dictionary, but perhaps that's not as frightening as the thesaurus he uses.

[makaya325]

God: The single greatest mythical threat to society

[nescafe]

You don't say.
Zero

Actually, that was the empty set, but close enough. :)

[JFrankA]

I define God as The maker of everything that is and everything that ever has


Oops! That was eleven words. One word too long. I guess it doesn't count then
Better luck for me next time

*BUUUZZZZ*

Sorry, Ron, you lose the microwave oven AND the dining set. But as a consolation prize, here's a copy of our home game!

And see you next time on

WHAT

IS

GOD?


*general applause - happy bright music plays*

[rikzilla]

Okay, let's put it this way, describe to me the god(s) you claim to not know or deny existence to.


In not more than ten words.




250+ gods, goddesses, and demi-gods and you want 10 words or less? Riiiight.

How 'bout you tell me what color the unicorn is that doesn't live in your garden...then we'll be getting somewhere.

-z

[Dr. Keith]

From my own part as a theist, I define God thus in three words:


Maker of everything.


Maybe it is elementary to your definition, but does this make your god nothing? If so, how does he/she/it make everything from nothing?

And more importantly who or what made your god? And why was your god made?

Your version of God reminds me of the cartoons that show the human brain as a small man in the skull at a control panel. It simply pushes the question back one level, without actually answering it.

If you want to know where order comes from, which is typically the main stumbling block for believers, then you should look more at emergence theory. It may be a lot of fun. Or not. I probably care less about your thoughts than you do about mine.

[fishbob]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.


A fictional character in myth and folklore.

[Tricky]

My definition of a Dragon is a gigantic reptile-like animal that breathes fire.

My definition of a Leprechaun is an Irish elf who wears green and guards a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

My definition of a Unicorn is a horse with a single long horn growing from the middle of its forehead.

My definition of a Griffin is a creature with body of a lion and the head and wings of an eagle.

My definition of a Pheonix is a large immortal bird which immolates itself every five hundred years, then rises from its ashes.

My definition of a Vampire is a shape-shifting being that can be a man or a bat, which lives on human blood.

My definition of a Jackalope is a jackrabbit with the horns of an antelope.

My definition of an Ent is a large tree-like creature which can walk and talk and hurl large rocks.

My definition of a Jabberwock is a burbling creature with jaws that bite and claws that catch.

My definition of a Boggart is a shape-shifting animal that lives in dark places and when exposed, takes the form of whatever the person in front of it fears the most.

My definition of God is the creator of the universe.


Can you figure out what these things have in common?

[paximperium]

Another version of god I don't believe in.

Our Father in heaven,hallowed be your name,your kingdom come,your will be done,on earth as in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us. Save us from the time of trial and deliver us from evil. For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours now and for ever.

Amen.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pater_Noster

[JFrankA]

Yrreg, what is your attitude on suicide, murder?

Is there any obligation binding you not to commit suicide, murder?

What about the fact the Abrahamic God ordered murder and even genocide? Would you obey such an order without qualm or question?

Please answer in ten words or less.




...seriously, I've decided to let go and just have fun with gerry's posts.

I expect an ignore from him soon...if I don't have one already... :D


ETA: it's obvious he wasn't reading my posts when I serious, so why bother trying?

[Upchurch]

Can you figure out what these things have in common?
The all exist in either the Harry Potter books or in D&D?

[Foster Zygote]

...seriously, I've decided to let go and just have fun with gerry's posts.

I expect an ignore from him soon...if I don't have one already... :D


ETA: it's obvious he wasn't reading my posts when I serious, so why bother trying?

Cat toy.

[yrreg]

God is the maker of everything. He does not exist.



That definition is already biased.


It is not acceptable as a definition of God unless you remove the line "He does not exist."




Take these definitions from Oxford and Merriam Webster:

God
• noun 1 (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and supreme ruler of the universe.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/god?view=uk

god
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a: the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/god




I am really very disappointed that you guys do not even know that a decent definition should adopt a neutral point of view.


Okay, think about what is the purpose of the definition of a thing or a word.

Have you ever noticed that in documents of laws and contracts, there is always a preliminary section on definitions of terms?


It is impossible to engage in any constructive discourse with people if you refuse to define your terms, instead you bring in frivolities or declaration of invincible ignorance or proclaim that you don't believe, etc., etc., etc.


Please just get to your definition of God first, before anything else you want to say about God, to maintain that you don't or cannot know for certain anything about Him (but you must know what theists claim to know for certain about Him), or that you deny He exists.


If you don't even know the definition of God from theists -- and I for one as a theist define God as the maker of everything, then don't talk with theists about God because you are talking to no purpose with them.


[ There is a flash just now on my screen of a pm for me, let's hope this pm can be the beginning of a good discussion on the atheists' definition of God. ]





Yrreg

[Evolved Wookie]

God is a large, scaly, intellectual creature often referred to (incorrectly) as a lizard. He had wings that are like a bat's; stretched skin between his front and back limbs. A complex third stomach acts as a phase separator and bleeds methane from the other results of its digestive process. This can he powerfully projected from his mouth and is ignited (much like a ram-jet) by the compressive heating caused by the force of the expulsion. He sounds like Sean Connery. I know this to be true.

...wait...hang on...

Damnit; that's not god is it? It's a dragon again! Doh! Never mind; they both have the same value of reality.

Gerry; do you seriously expect us to define all the things that don't exist?

[Z]

That definition is already biased.


It is not acceptable as a definition of God unless you remove the line "He does not exist."




Take these definitions from Oxford and Merriam Webster:





I am really very disappointed that you guys do not even know that a decent definition should adopt a neutral point of view.


Okay, think about what is the purpose of the definition of a thing or a word.

Have you ever noticed that in documents of laws and contracts, there is always a preliminary section on definitions of terms?


It is impossible to engage in any constructive discourse with people if you refuse to define your terms, instead you bring in frivolities or declaration of invincible ignorance or proclaim that you don't believe, etc., etc., etc.


Please just get to your definition of God first, before anything else you want to say about God, to maintain that you don't or cannot know for certain anything about Him (but you must know what theists claim to know for certain about Him), or that you deny He exists.


If you don't even know the definition of God from theists -- and I for one as a theist define God as the maker of everything, then don't talk with theists about God because you are talking to no purpose with them.


[ There is a flash just now on my screen of a pm for me, let's hope this pm can be the beginning of a good discussion on the atheists' definition of God. ]





Yrreg

Yrreg, what is your attitude on suicide, murder?

Is there any obligation binding you not to commit suicide, murder?

What about the fact the Abrahamic God ordered murder and even genocide? Would you obey such an order without qualm or question?

Please answer in ten words or less.

BTW - a definition of God from an atheist is necessarily either going to contain the concept 'which does not exist' or the concept 'which I do not believe in'. If you cannot accept an atheist's definition of God, don't ask for it.

[Ron_Tomkins]

*BUUUZZZZ*

Sorry, Ron, you lose the microwave oven AND the dining set. But as a consolation prize, here's a copy of our home game!

And see you next time on

WHAT

IS

GOD?


*general applause - happy bright music plays*

I am really very disappointed that you guys do not even know that a decent definition should adopt a neutral point of view.

I'm sorry. No, please. Please give me one more chance!! I swear I didn't know what I was doing when I typed eleven words!! I swear!! Please, I beg you!! You have to give me one more chance!! I mean this can't be it. You can't just leave me like this!! I beg you!!!!

[Skeptic Ginger]

A mythological social construct with no set definition and no set attributes spread by memes and indoctrinations.I was just going to say an imaginary being. But I suppose your version is correct since not all imaginary beings are gods.

[Evolved Wookie]

And while we're at it...

Yrreg, what is your attitude on suicide, murder?

Is there any obligation binding you not to commit suicide, murder?

What about the fact the Abrahamic God ordered murder and even genocide? Would you obey such an order without qualm or question?

Please answer in ten words or less.

Just in case you have Z on ignore. I presume you've forgotten the other thread in which we're waiting for your response, so this is just a reminder that there are some pertinent and unanswered questions for you there.

[dlorde]

My definition of god?

That in which atheists do not believe.

[Humanzee]

Geez...wasn't this all done before?

Anyway, yrreG, would you accept, "God noun 1 (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the purported creator and supreme ruler of the universe."?

[Agatha]

So what colour is that celestial teapot, Yrreg? It is impossible to engage in any constructive discourse with you if you refuse to define your terms, instead you bring in frivolities or declaration of invincible ignorance or proclaim that you don't believe, etc., etc., etc.

If it will move the discussion on, I'll accept your definition insofar as you believe that your god is the maker of everything. So what now?

[yrreg]

[...]


[ There is a flash just now on my screen of a pm for me, let's hope this pm can be the beginning of a good discussion on the atheists' definition of God. ]





Yrreg


Here as follows is the pm:


Private Message

Today, 04:46 AM

Phage0070
Scholar


Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 63 Re: Atheists, what is your definition of God?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We don't believe in gods at all, so any definition of a god that you pick would be denied. One is as good as another, so we can use your definition if you like.




We will go to the denial later, but I am glad that you do accept our definition of God, or my definition of God as a theist, namely, the maker of everything.


Thanks.



Now, what about the rest of you atheists here, do you also accept my definition of God as the maker of everything?




Yrreg

[Oliver]

Definition of god:

Abstract creature being in control of everything, as conceived by prehistoric truthers to explain all their unanswered questions due to the lack of science back then.

I actually should've highlighted the term prehistoric truthers.

End of thread.

[Jeff Corey]

When a friend's six year old daughter asked her, "Mommy, what's god?" her response was, "Like a Santa Claus that some adults believe it."
That's accurate and nine words.

[Z]

Yrreg, what is your attitude on suicide, murder?

Is there any obligation binding you not to commit suicide, murder?

What about the fact the Abrahamic God ordered murder and even genocide? Would you obey such an order without qualm or question?

Please answer in ten words or less.

[Fiona]

We have done this Yrreg. But just one last time:

If you deny existence of God the maker of everything,God,....

Yes. I deny the existence of that god.

Every atheist here denies the exisitence of that god




Did you miss that?

[Andrewsarchus]

Two words to define God,

fictional monster.

[HansMustermann]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.

From my own part as a theist, I define God thus in three words:

Maker of everything.

I belong to the Christian tradition in regard to my definition of God.

I just wish that I can have a clear idea of what is God for the atheists, so that I can be definite exactly what God they are claiming not to know for certain or to deny existence to.

My personal definition in 3 words, for the scope of what I don't believe in for lack of any acceptable evidence:

Any supernatural being.

Really, I'm easy. Whatever kind of god you can come up with evidence for, I'm game.

Sure, you can go for something as grand as the christian God, you know, what with being eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, creator of everything, etc. It's a valid subset of it. If you have evidence for _that_, I'm game.

But I'm not fussy. If you can't produce something that grand, or there's some aspect of it that you have insufficient evidence for, I'm game anyway. Let nobody say that I rejected something for, say, being only omniscient and omnipresent, but not having been there for ever.

[Fireshadow]

The all exist in either the Harry Potter books or in D&D?

I was about to say that Ents don't exist in D & D, but that would have been wrong (although, much like hobbits, Gygax had to change the name).

[kerikiwi]

Please be brief in words, because when people use so many words to say what they intend to convey to people like myself, I have the suspicion that they either don't know what they are talking about, or they cannot use clear words to convey what they do know.

In which case they should think more carefully exactly what they do know about what they want to convey to people, and also choose carefully the fewest words that can deliver the exact ideas of what they know.


Gerry you do irony quite well.

[paximperium]

My personal definition in 3 words, for the scope of what I don't believe in for lack of any acceptable evidence:
Any supernatural being.
I can't agree with that definition. I don't believe that Myrmidons or Tengu are commonly considered to be gods...they all do share the same "reality".

[kerikiwi]

[ There is a flash just now on my screen of a pm for me, let's hope this pm can be the beginning of a good discussion on the atheists' definition of God. ]


Yrreg

All right you people. Own up. Who was it?

[RoboTimbo]

Here's a link to the Wiki definition of a god, Thor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor

Will you accept that definition of Thor or not?

[Mojo]

I belong to the Christian tradition in regard to my definition of God.


How do you define the gods of other traditions?

[makaya325]

My definition of a Dragon is a gigantic reptile-like animal that breathes fire.

My definition of a Leprechaun is an Irish elf who wears green and guards a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

My definition of a Unicorn is a horse with a single long horn growing from the middle of its forehead.

My definition of a Griffin is a creature with body of a lion and the head and wings of an eagle.

My definition of a Pheonix is a large immortal bird which immolates itself every five hundred years, then rises from its ashes.

My definition of a Vampire is a shape-shifting being that can be a man or a bat, which lives on human blood.

My definition of a Jackalope is a jackrabbit with the horns of an antelope.

My definition of an Ent is a large tree-like creature which can walk and talk and hurl large rocks.

My definition of a Jabberwock is a burbling creature with jaws that bite and claws that catch.

My definition of a Boggart is a shape-shifting animal that lives in dark places and when exposed, takes the form of whatever the person in front of it fears the most.

My definition of God is the creator of the universe.


Can you figure out what these things have in common?

All of them dont have free coupons for KFC? :o

[makaya325]

God: a virus of the mind

[Fireshadow]

Now, what about the rest of you atheists here, do you also accept my definition of God as the maker of everything?




Yrreg


Yes, I'll accept that you define god as the maker of everything. That is fine, as that was my original point--athiests don't believe in god, so we have to use the definitions as supplied by the particular theist we're talking to to formulate the concept. That's all a definition is--the socially agreed upon meaning of a particular word. The problem with defining "god" is that the word has different meanings depending upon which believer you ask. God is what people throughout history have used to explain the unexplained and find meaning where there is none. God cannot be defined as simply as, for example, a cat. Everyone (probably) has seen a cat at some point in their life--four legs, whiskers, usually a long tail, pointed ears, furry. A small carnivorous quadruped domesticated by humans for companionship and pest control. Simple. But the definition of "god" is different--no one has actually seen god. Therefore, god is whatever the definer wants it to be.

I've read the previous threads, and have seen it demonstrated that there are many things that exist which do not require a maker--rivers through the forces of gravity and erosion create canyons; no god involved. Stars explode into supernovae through entropic decay and collapse into black holes. God is not necessary for this. again, I accept that you define god as the maker of everything--and I believe that this definition is inherently flawed.

I know this will fall on deaf ears, but I want to show the others who have made much better arguments than I that I was paying attention. We all know that it doesn't matter what we say--your mind is closed to any worldview but your own.

[JFrankA]

Here as follows is the pm:



We don't believe in gods at all, so any definition of a god that you pick would be denied. One is as good as another, so we can use your definition if you like.


We will go to the denial later, but I am glad that you do accept our definition of God, or my definition of God as a theist, namely, the maker of everything.


Thanks.



Now, what about the rest of you atheists here, do you also accept my definition of God as the maker of everything?




Yrreg

I call shenanigans!!!!!

What's the difference between this answer:


We don't believe in gods at all, so any definition of a god that you pick would be denied. One is as good as another, so we can use your definition if you like.


and my answer:

A belief in a "maker of everything", really is untrue.

?


What did I do wrong? I used ten words and everything!

*sniff*

[Fireshadow]

My definition of a Pheonix is a large immortal bird which immolates itself every five hundred years, then rises from its ashes.



Funny, my definition of Phoenix is a large city in central Arizona, the capital of the state.

[Twiler]

Yrreg, what is your attitude on suicide, murder?

Is there any obligation binding you not to commit suicide, murder?

What about the fact the Abrahamic God ordered murder and even genocide? Would you obey such an order without qualm or question?

Please answer in ten words or less.

[Robin]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.

From my own part as a theist, I define God thus in three words:


Maker of everything.

That is interesting, you don't credit God with intelligence.

I would have to say

"purposefully intelligent maker of everything except for itself"

[Mojo]

Now, what about the rest of you atheists here, do you also accept my definition of God as the maker of everything?


No. That's your definition of your god. The subject of this thread is, according to the OP, atheists' definition of god.

Here's mine:

A mythical superhuman being (4 words).

[Z]

Funny, my definition of Phoenix is a large city in central Arizona, the capital of the state.

... and my birthplace, coincidentally.

[bobcarp]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.


That's like asking a vegetarian how they want their steak cooked...

[Marcus]

You want us to define your imaginary Sky Daddy, but you refuse to do so yourself. "Maker of everything" is a cop out, it doesn't define the Christian god, it does not include the many attributes that must be included if you are a Christian.

[Ryokan]

Maker of everything doesn't make any sense. God is part of everything, isn't he? So he made himself?

Anyway, since you're the one claiming there is a god, Yrreg, I'll accept your definition of it. It can't be up to me, who doesn't believe in such a thing, to define it.

[HansMustermann]

[/INDENT]I can't agree with that definition. I don't believe that Myrmidons or Tengu are commonly considered to be gods...they all do share the same "reality".

Well, I don't believe in either, so no point in discriminating against them there :p

I'll settle for a proof that they exist, before I get bogged down into whether they're Godlike enough compared to the equally non-existent YHVH. Otherwise we can get bogged down in, basically, the equivalent of debating if the Invisible Pink Unicorn is redder than Santa Claus, or if Superman can beat up Dracula. (Hey, he could have kryptonite teeth, you know?;))

What's the point of arguing where on the divinity scale are Tengu compared to YHVH, before having any indication that any of them exists at all?

I'm just saying I don't believe in any of them, there. I don't think it's that wrong a thing to say.

Plus, I think narrowing down _a_ god too much, leaves the possibility of basically saying "I'm an atheist, but I could still believe in those other 50 supernatural beings, because they doesn't fit the definition I just gave of this god."

E.g., if I say I just don't believe in an inherently eternal and immortal God, I just excluded all the Norse deities, which had to munch on Idun's apples to stay young. (And that's not even an euphemism for Idun's anatomy.:p) So I could be a self proclaimed atheist which could believe in the whole Norse pantheon.

E.g., if I say I just don't believe in a creator of the whole universe... well, historically most gods ever imagined were not creator gods. I could still jolly well believe in the whole ancient Egyptian or Roman pantheon, or _both_, and still say with a straight face that I'm an atheist by that definition.

Etc.

I see no need to dig myself into a hole with an overly specific definition, especially, again, since that's essentially debating the sorting and qualifications of equally non-existent beings.

So, no, as far as I'm concerned, sure, the Tengu are eligible. So are Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Sandman, or anything else which is supernatural. As in, not subject to the normal laws of nature. Or even to some. Someone bring evidence of any of them, if they can.

[X]

An atheists definition of god?

Interesting question. Stupid, but interesting. Allow me to explain...

An atheist is one who does not believe in god(s).

I'm sure you know, yrreg, that there are many (by "many" I mean lots and lots, here's a small sample (http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_myth_gods_index.htm)) gods which have been and are still being believed in.

Atheists don't believe in any of them.

None of them have any evidence for their existence.

Not a one.

The best theists can come up with is saying "god made this", which presupposed that it was made by a god in the first place.

Now you define "god" as the "maker of everything", and claim that this is the Christian god (as opposed to the Hindu, Sikh, Greek or Egyptian gods).

And your supposed evidences of this gods existence (the moon, your penis, your nose, etc etc) all rely on the unsupported assertion that these things were made!

If you can support the underlying assumptions of your claims, then we can talk about evidence for god. At this point in time, you have not done so. You have merely claimed to know that it is so.

You have not yet expained how you know that it is so, leading most of us here to conclude that you merely believe it to be so. And that you don't understand (or won't let yourself consider) the difference between knowledge and belief.


You want a definition of god from an atheist?

Fine:

"A god is a supernatural being which is believed in by some people and generally viewed as a perfect (or exaggerated) being of enormous power"

It's more than 10 words. Screw your arbitrary word limits.

I find it ironic how you can so blithely state that people who write long posts must be stupid, whilst yourself writing long, repetitive posts proclaiming your superiority.

So screw your word limit. I'll use as many words as it takes.



For the sake of discussion, and seeing what inane argument you try next to prove your pet theory that, in spite of what has been explained to you repeatedly, "atheists really really do deep down believe in god, they just don't ant to admit it", I will agree with the PM, and accept "the creator of everything" as a definition of god.

Bear in mind, however, that the moment you start applying attributes to this "creator", we WILL jump on it and demand to know how you can justify these additional characteristics.

You've created a definition which defines nothing. I and several other posters on this board, have agreed with it.

Now what?

[JFrankA]

I'm sorry. No, please. Please give me one more chance!! I swear I didn't know what I was doing when I typed eleven words!! I swear!! Please, I beg you!! You have to give me one more chance!! I mean this can't be it. You can't just leave me like this!! I beg you!!!!

No, sorry, rules are rules. You can't play again until Gerry's next game....I mean thread......


*gives Ron another copy of the home game*

[Piscivore]

My personal definition of "god" is summed up, sort of thing, by Terry Pratchett:
A [god] is made up of all kinds of things. Ideas. Loyalties. Memories. It all sort of exists together. And then all these things create some kind of life. Not a body kind of life, more like a living idea. Made up of everything that's alive and what they're thinking. And what people before them thought.

[yrreg]

My definition of God as the maker of everything is founded upon the Statement of Faith of Christianity, namely, the Apostles' Creed.


I believe in God
the Father almighty
creator of heaven and earth.



If you want to have a discussion with me, please just keep to my definition of God as the maker of everything.

Even though you deny that He exists.


Still for the present I will not occupy myself with other posters here, because I want to dwell on the agreement of Phage0070 that he will accept for the purpose of this thread any definition from me of God -- just the same he has already put forth a postdated denial of God's existence in advance of anything discussed with me about the God defined by myself as the maker of everything.

That is why I say that atheists have an attitude of denying God, like stating from the start that carte blanche of universal denial, as with Phage0070 who denies the existence of God -- even before any discussion has been transacted.





[...]


[ There is a flash just now on my screen of a pm for me, let's hope this pm can be the beginning of a good discussion on the atheists' definition of God. ]


Here as follows is the pm:





Private Message

Today, 04:46 AM

Phage0070
Scholar


Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 63 Re: Atheists, what is your definition of God?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We don't believe in gods at all, so any definition of a god that you pick would be denied. One is as good as another, so we can use your definition if you like.


We will go to the denial later, but I am glad that you do accept our definition of God, or my definition of God as a theist, namely, the maker of everything.




Thanks.



Now, what about the rest of you atheists here, do you also accept my definition of God as the maker of everything?




Notice that Phage0070 says:

We don't believe in gods at all, so any definition of a god that you pick would be denied. One is as good as another, so we can use your definition if you like.



So, my definition of God as the maker of everything though denied existence by Phage0070 is good for the discussion with him and fellow atheists about God's existence -- even though as he states clearly he and fellow atheists deny the existence of God the maker of everything.


I want to commend people here who take the time and labor to write intelligently though already with a pre-empted denial of God's existence -- of which more can be talked about later.






Yrreg

[Dancing David]

Confirmation bias and conflation of the unknowable.

[Agatha]

Several people have stated that they will accept your definition for the purposes of moving the discussion along. Either you have people on ignore, or you are failing to read their posts.

So, move your discussion along.

By the way, is posting the content and author of a private message within the MA?

[Dancing David]

God the maker of everything.

That which can not be seen, judged or determined to have a valid existance.

How would you tell a created universe from a random haphazard one?
Iteration 0

[Mojo]

My definition of God as the maker of everything is founded upon the Statement of Faith of Christianity, namely, the Apostles' Creed.


I believe in God
the Father almighty
creator of heaven and earth.



If you want to have a discussion with me, please just keep to my definition of God as the maker of everything.


You're off-topic, yrreg: the subject of this thread is Atheists' definition of God, not yours.

[Ryokan]

Atheists, what is your definition of God?

If you want to have a discussion with me, please just keep to my definition of God as the maker of everything.

What's this thread about again? :confused:

[JFrankA]

My definition of God as the maker of everything is founded upon the Statement of Faith of Christianity, namely, the Apostles' Creed.


I believe in God
the Father almighty
creator of heaven and earth.



If you want to have a discussion with me, please just keep to my definition of God as the maker of everything.

Even though you deny that He exists.


Still for the present I will not occupy myself with other posters here, because I want to dwell on the agreement of Phage0070 that he will accept for the purpose of this thread any definition from me of God -- just the same he has already put forth a postdated denial of God's existence in advance of anything discussed with me about the God defined by myself as the maker of everything.

That is why I say that atheists have an attitude of denying God, like stating from the start that carte blanche of universal denial, as with Phage0070 who denies the existence of God -- even before any discussion has been transacted.





Notice that Phage0070 says:



So, my definition of God as the maker of everything though denied existence by Phage0070 is good for the discussion with him and fellow atheists about God's existence -- even though as he states clearly he and fellow atheists deny the existence of God the maker of everything.


I want to commend people here who take the time and labor to write intelligently though already with a pre-empted denial of God's existence -- of which more can be talked about later.






Yrreg

So what you are saying is that because we deny that god exists he must exist?

Okay, I was right.

Shenanagins!!!! Shenanagins!!!! Shenanagins!!!!

[learner]

Yrreg used to include a word, new to me, with every new/re-hashed thread he started. Whats going on?
Little "new word" pad at the ready, and nothing to add!

Yrreg, get your act together. No new words = worthless thread.

I liked "obfuscate" best, by the way.

[X]

That definition is already biased.


It is not acceptable as a definition of God unless you remove the line "He does not exist."



Ah. So his definition is biased, because he says "god does not exits".

But your definition of god, as "maker of everything", which says god does exist is not biased?

If bias is a concern for you (and not an arbitrarily selective one), should you define god as "the supposed maker of everything"?

[Tricky]

Atheists, what is your definition of God?

If you want to have a discussion with me, please just keep to my definition of God as the maker of everything.

What's this thread about again? :confused:
LOL. Good catch.

"I want to discuss your definition, as long as it is the same as mine."

[kerikiwi]

If you want to have a discussion with me, please just keep to my definition of God as the maker of everything.
...





I want to commend people here who take the time and labor to write intelligently though already with a pre-empted denial of God's existence -- of which more can be talked about later.





Although you asked for atheists' definition of god, several of us are happy to play with your definition: it doesn't exist.


What in the name of Peppermint Patty is a 'pre-empted denial'? You mean the denial is denied before it gets to be a denial?
And why wait till later? Talk about it now. Please, please, in the name of the aforementioned Peppermint Patty, talk about it now.

[JFrankA]

Although you asked for atheists' definition of god, several of us are happy to play with your definition: it doesn't exist.


What in the name of Peppermint Patty is a 'pre-empted denial'? You mean the denial is denied before it gets to be a denial?
And why wait till later? Talk about it now. Please, please, in the name of the aforementioned Peppermint Patty, talk about it now.

I believe in Peppermint Patty.....

[yrreg]

Here again are the definitions of God from me and from the Oxford Dictionary as from the Merriam Webster Dictionary.





That definition is already biased [from SumDood below].

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


God is the maker of everything. He does not exist.



That definition is already biased.


It is not acceptable as a definition of God unless you remove the line "He does not exist."




Take these definitions from Oxford and Merriam Webster:



God
• noun 1 (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and supreme ruler of the universe.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/god?view=uk

god
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a: the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/god





I am really very disappointed that you guys do not even know that a decent definition should adopt a neutral point of view.


Okay, think about what is the purpose of the definition of a thing or a word.

Have you ever noticed that in documents of laws and contracts, there is always a preliminary section on definitions of terms?


It is impossible to engage in any constructive discourse with people if you refuse to define your terms, instead you bring in frivolities or declaration of invincible ignorance or proclaim that you don't believe, etc., etc., etc.


Please just get to your definition of God first, before anything else you want to say about God, to maintain that you don't or cannot know for certain anything about Him (but you must know what theists claim to know for certain about Him), or that you deny He exists.


If you don't even know the definition of God from theists -- and I for one as a theist define God as the maker of everything, then don't talk with theists about God because you are talking to no purpose with them.


[...]





Suppose you bring up the definitions of God from your mentors like Dawkins and company?




Yrreg

[kerikiwi]

I believe in Peppermint Patty.....

Get your own god. Peppermint Patty is mine and mine alone. None of this god for all humanity tripe.
How's that for a definition?

[kerikiwi]

Here again are the definitions of God from me and from the Oxford Dictionary as from the Merriam Webster Dictionary.







Suppose you bring up the definitions of God from your mentors like Dawkins and company?




Yrreg
If you wanted Dawkins' definition why did you waste time asking for atheists' definition then insisting we accept your definition?
Do I think you will reply in any rational fashion?
What am I? Delusional?

[Z]

Here again are the definitions of God from me and from the Oxford Dictionary as from the Merriam Webster Dictionary.







Suppose you bring up the definitions of God from your mentors like Dawkins and company?




Yrreg

Yrreg, attitude on suicide, murder?

Obligation binding you not to commit suicide, murder?

What about Abrahamic God ordering murder, genocide? Would you obey without qualm or question?

Please, ten words or less.

[Ryokan]

Yrreg, most, if not all, will accept your definition. You claim it exists, therefore its your job to supply the definition.

I will accept god as defined as the maker of everything.

Ok?

[MIKILLINI]

You either don't know how to debate or do not want to. So which is it?


I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.

I belong to the Christian tradition in regard to my definition of God.

Thanks for clearing that up in simple terms. See how easy that was without adding your arrogant worthless drivel which takes up bandwidth and shows disrespect for readers here.

I just wish that I can have a clear idea of what is God for the atheists, so that I can be definite exactly what God they are claiming not to know for certain or to deny existence to.


Read the posts Gerry! Read the posts! Can't you read the posts?

Please be brief in words, because when you use so many words to say what you intend to convey to people here, I have the suspicion that you either don't know what you are talking about, or cannot use concise clear words to convey what you do know.

In which case you should think more carefully about exactly what people here are telling you, and also listen carefully to their words so that you can acknowledge the exact reason of why they don't believe in god.

[JFrankA]

Get your own god. Peppermint Patty is mine and mine alone. None of this god for all humanity tripe.
How's that for a definition?

*looks at Kerikiwi mornfully. Tears wells up in my eyes*


Well....okay....

*sadly walks away, looking over my shoulder at Kerikiwi once or twice...*

[kerikiwi]

*looks at Kerikiwi mornfully. Tears wells up in my eyes*


Well....okay....

*sadly walks away, looking over my shoulder at Kerikiwi once or twice...*

For the love of PP, get a grip. Snoopy is still available...:o

[MIKILLINI]

I say I define God as the maker of everything.

So far I have not come to your definition of God.




:rolleyes:



Gerry! What is the definition of Atheism?

[kerikiwi]

You either don't know how to debate or do not want to. So which is it?


To be fair to gerry(well I try) the two are not mutually exclusive.

[Dunstan]

I'm eagerly awaiting next fall's new television series, Law & Order: Yrreg Investigations Unit

Yrreg: Did you kill Smith?
Suspect: No.
Yrreg: Please give an intelligent answer. Did you kill Smith?
Suspect: No, I didn't. In fact, at the time you say Smith was killed, I was at a baseball game a thousand miles away. Here's a copy of my ticket stub. Here's my boarding passes from the flights I took there and back. Here's a videotape of me catching a foul ball at that game. Oh, and affidavits from ten people sitting in my section, along with the hot dog vendor.
Yrreg: Long answers are a sign of lack of intelligence. Please limit your answers to exactly three letters. Did you kill Smith?
Suspect: No-o.
Yrreg: You are not being serious. I will ask you again, did you kill Smith?
Suspect (sarcastically): Yeah. I had myself cloned, and sent my clone on the plane and to the baseball game, all to provide me with an alibi that you've so cleverly seen through.
Yrreg: Aha! GOTCHA!
Suspect: I was kidding.
Yrreg: Please do not joke. I am trying to conduct an investigation. Now that you have admitted you killed Smith, tell me why?
Suspect: What part of "kidding" don't you understand?
Yrreg: I am asking the questions here.

[yrreg]

I have the word of Phage0070 that he will take my definition of God even if he already maintains that it is all denial from him as regards God's existence.


So here again is my definition of God, maker of everything; and also please read again the definitions of God from the online Oxford Dictionary and likewise the Merriam Webster Dictionary.



I have asked you atheists to produce the definitions of God from your mentors like Dawkins and company.


On my part I will bring forth now from published sources of reference materials what their definitions of God is, and eventually try to delineate a history of the concept of God from when man first kept records of their thinking about God to the present.



What do you do in the meantime?

What else but also formulate your own definitions of God, and/or reproduce definitions of God from your mentors, if they do take the care to think up a definition of God that can impress intelligent minds, who care to read definitions of God from a neutral point of view.





Yrreg

[Fiona]

Well we always get a crop of nominations for the language award from an yrreg thread: and Dunstan's post is one. I suppose that is what you call a silver lining :)

[Mitchell314]

God: The genius who made a broken universe.


<o.t.> In her defense, she was only a white mage...

[joobz]

My definition of God Is exactly opposite of Yrreg's Definition.

So sayeth Joobz - High Priestess of the First Church of Notyrregology.

[Ryokan]

I was an atheist long before I heard of Dawkins, so he's not my mentor.

I accept your definition of god, Yrreg. It's your claim. Now what?

[Robert Oz]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.


As many have already highlighted, this is a difficult question, since there have been so many definitions of God by others, which differ from belief to belief. This is why, when confronted with the question, "Do you believe in God", atheists will usually respond, "Which God?". This is an appropriate response due to the sheer number of god beliefs.

Normally, I would simply say that, so far, I have not been presented with a definition of a god that I feel has enough evidence for me to conclude that it exists. But, obviously, you want something a little more concrete.

For the purposes of this thread, I will define 'god' as 'a conscious supernatural entity responsible for the existence of all things, but which, itself, does not require a source'. Personally, the definitions I have heard thus far, generally squeeze into this definition, so I think it is appropriate for this discussion. Furthermore, I do not believe that such an entity exists.


From my own part as a theist, I define God thus in three words:


Maker of everything.


Let's not tip-toe around your definition of God. The above is not your definition of God. Your definition of God is more along the lines of:

Male, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, intelligent, conscious and free maker of everything who is deeply concerned about everything he created, but, in particular, mankind, from whom he requires belief and worship and promises eternity in paradise as a reward and eternal punishment for those who do not believe and worship accordingly.


My definition of God as the maker of everything is founded upon the Statement of Faith of Christianity, namely, the Apostles' Creed.


I believe in God
the Father almighty
creator of heaven and earth.


The Apostles' Creed is longer than this. Please post the whole thing so we are in a better position to discuss your beliefs intelligently.

[Ryokan]

Just so there's no doubt:

Yrreg, my definition of your god: The maker of everything.

[MIKILLINI]

To be fair to gerry(well I try) the two are not mutually exclusive.

:D

[RoboTimbo]

yrreG, your definition is wrong. You need to add the word imaginary and then it will be acceptable.

[tsig]

As many have already highlighted, this is a difficult question, since there have been so many definitions of God by others, which differ from belief to belief. This is why, when confronted with the question, "Do you believe in God", atheists will usually respond, "Which God?". This is an appropriate response due to the sheer number of god beliefs.

Normally, I would simply say that, so far, I have not been presented with a definition of a god that I feel has enough evidence for me to conclude that it exists. But, obviously, you want something a little more concrete.

For the purposes of this thread, I will define 'god' as 'a conscious supernatural entity responsible for the existence of all things, but which, itself, does not require a source'. Personally, the definitions I have heard thus far, generally squeeze into this definition, so I think it is appropriate for this discussion. Furthermore, I do not believe that such an entity exists.





Let's not tip-toe around your definition of God. The above is not your definition of God. Your definition of God is more along the lines of:

Male, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, intelligent, conscious and free maker of everything who is deeply concerned about everything he created, but, in particular, mankind, from whom he requires belief and worship and promises eternity in paradise as a reward and eternal punishment for those who do not believe and worship accordingly.





The Apostles' Creed is longer than this. Please post the whole thing so we are in a better position to discuss your beliefs intelligently.

I believe in God
the Father almighty
creator of heaven and earth.
And in the republic for which we stand
One nation, under god
With liberty and justice for us.:)

[gentlehorse]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.

From my own part as a theist, I define God thus in three words:


Maker of everything.

My definition:

The anthropomorphization of the unknown--

(Mine is five words... I win!)

[ThatSoundAgain]

What do you do in the meantime?

What else but also formulate your own definitions of God, and/or reproduce definitions of God from your mentors, if they do take the care to think up a definition of God that can impress intelligent minds, who care to read definitions of God from a neutral point of view.


Sigh.

Which part of "Any and all" is it that you have difficulty understanding?

FYI, "any and all" includes your definition. A point I'm only about the eleventieth poster to bring up. So, since we all agree to use your definition, why don't you tell us the point?

[~enigma~]

I say I define God as the maker of everything.

So far I have not come to your definition of God.
You do understand that asking an atheist to define god is about as stupid as asking an atheist to define sin.

[Ryokan]

You do understand that asking an atheist to define god is about as stupid as asking an atheist to define sin.

I disagree. I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I can still easily define what he is.

[Dancing David]

How would you tell a created universe from a random haphazard one?
Iteration 1

[Z]

I have the word of Phage0070 that he will take my definition of God even if he already maintains that it is all denial from him as regards God's existence.


So here again is my definition of God, maker of everything; and also please read again the definitions of God from the online Oxford Dictionary and likewise the Merriam Webster Dictionary.



I have asked you atheists to produce the definitions of God from your mentors like Dawkins and company.


On my part I will bring forth now from published sources of reference materials what their definitions of God is, and eventually try to delineate a history of the concept of God from when man first kept records of their thinking about God to the present.



What do you do in the meantime?

What else but also formulate your own definitions of God, and/or reproduce definitions of God from your mentors, if they do take the care to think up a definition of God that can impress intelligent minds, who care to read definitions of God from a neutral point of view.





Yrreg

Yrreg, attitude on sushi marinade??

Obligation binding you not to create sushi marinade?

What about Adrrianne Sod ordering marinated sea bass? Would you cook without thyme or garlic?

Please, ten ingredients or less.

[JFrankA]

I have the word of Phage0070 that he will take my definition of God even if he already maintains that it is all denial from him as regards God's existence.


So here again is my definition of God, maker of everything; and also please read again the definitions of God from the online Oxford Dictionary and likewise the Merriam Webster Dictionary.



I have asked you atheists to produce the definitions of God from your mentors like Dawkins and company.


On my part I will bring forth now from published sources of reference materials what their definitions of God is, and eventually try to delineate a history of the concept of God from when man first kept records of their thinking about God to the present.



What do you do in the meantime?

What else but also formulate your own definitions of God, and/or reproduce definitions of God from your mentors, if they do take the care to think up a definition of God that can impress intelligent minds, who care to read definitions of God from a neutral point of view.





Yrreg

I have the word of yrreg that he will not take my definition of god even if he already maintains that it is all because he's right no matter what anyone else says.

So here again is my definition of god, nonexistent; and also please read again the definitions of god from the online Oxford Dictionary and likewise the Merriam Webster Dictionary.



I have asked you, yrreg, to produce your attitude on suicide, murder from your mentor, the maker of everything.


On my part I will bring forth now from professional sources of reference materials that atheists' mentors aren't always Dawkins "and company", and eventually try to delineate a history of the concept of personal answers from the people you have asked your question of.


What do you do in the meantime?


What else but also formulate your own twist of their responses, and/or create definitions of god from your own imagination, if you do take the care to comprehend the honest answers of the people you question, most of whom have intelligent minds, who care to read and debate your definitions of god which is from a completely biased point of view.



JFrankA

[Robin]

My definition of God as the maker of everything is founded upon the Statement of Faith of Christianity, namely, the Apostles' Creed.


I believe in God
the Father almighty
creator of heaven and earth.



If you want to have a discussion with me, please just keep to my definition of God as the maker of everything.

Even though you deny that He exists.
Are you confirming that you do not consider intelligence a necessary attribute of God?

Also, did God make himself? If not then he is not the maker of everything.

[yrreg]

[...]

On my part I will bring forth now from published sources of reference materials what their definitions of God is, and eventually try to delineate a history of the concept of God from when man first kept records of their thinking about God to the present.




Here are more definitions of God from online published dictionaries and quick encyclopedias:

God (noun)
supreme being: the being believed in monotheistic religions such as Judaism, Islam, and Christianity to be the all-powerful all-knowing creator of the universe, worshiped as the only god
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861614462


God (MAKER)
(in especially Christian, Jewish and Muslim belief) the being which made the universe, the Earth and its people and is believed to have an effect on all things:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=33587&dict=CALD


God
The single god of various monotheistic religions.
The single male god of various duotheistic religions.
An impersonal and universal spiritual presence or force.
An omnipotent being, creator of the universe (as in deism).
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/God


god (noun)
in monotheistic religions, the creator and ruler of the universe, regarded as eternal, infinite, all-powerful, and all-knowing; Supreme Being; the Almighty
http://www.yourdictionary.com/god


god
(cap.) the omnipotent and omniscient being that is worshiped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the creator and ruler of the universe.
http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=god&matchtype=exact


God n.
1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
http://dictionary.infoplease.com/god

God (CREATOR)
(esp. in Christian, Jewish, and Muslim belief) the being that created and rules the universe, the earth, and its people
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=god*1+0&dict=A


God
(n.) The Supreme Being; the eternal and infinite Spirit, the Creator, and the Sovereign of the universe; Jehovah.
http://www.onelook.com/?other=web1913&w=God


GOD, n.
1. The Supreme Being; Jehovah; the eternal and infinite spirit, the creator, and the sovereign of the universe.
http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/word/god


God
God, the center and focus of religious faith, a holy being or ultimate reality to whom worship and prayer are addressed. Especially in monotheistic religions (see Monotheism), God is considered the creator or source of everything that exists and is spoken of in terms of perfect attributes—for instance, infinitude, immutability, eternity, goodness, knowledge (omniscience), and power (omnipotence). Most religions traditionally ascribe to God certain human characteristics that can be understood either literally or metaphorically, such as will, love, anger, and forgiveness.
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArticle.aspx?refid=761567455








What do you do in the meantime?

What else but also formulate your own definitions of God, and/or reproduce definitions of God from your mentors, if they do take the care to think up a definition of God that can impress intelligent minds, who care to read definitions of God from a neutral point of view.




There does not seem to be any mention of what atheists have for a definition of God as understood by writers and speakers of English.

So publishers of dictionaries of the English language don't see any reasons to include what atheists say about God as worthy of inclusion in a serious dictionary of the English language.


Anyway, you atheists can continue to say what you think God is or is not, and also bring up what your mentors like Dawkins and company say.

In this manner people who use the English language will know the kind of scholarly heart and mind you possess when it comes to the definitions of God or what you people think about God.

And from what you say about what you think God is or is not, they will not be at a loss to see why the vast majority of Americans take atheists as the most distrusted minority in the US.





Yrreg

[Robin]

Also, yrreg, what is wrong with Richard Dawkin's definition:

"a superhuman, supernatural intelligence who deliberately designed and created the universe and everything in it, including us."

(From the God Delusion)

[RoboTimbo]

Here are more definitions of God from online published dictionaries and quick encyclopedias:

Yrreg

Poseiden - god of the sea

Let's work with that. Do you believe in Poseiden?

[kerikiwi]

There does not seem to be any mention of what atheists have for a definition of God as understood by writers and speakers of English.

So publishers of dictionaries of the English language don't see any reasons to include what atheists say about God as worthy of inclusion in a serious dictionary of the English language.





Um Gerry dictionaries list meanings of words. They are not books on philosophy or theology or anything else like that.

[Robert Oz]

Here are more definitions of God from online published dictionaries and quick encyclopedias:

God (noun)
supreme being: the being believed in monotheistic religions such as Judaism, Islam, and Christianity to be the all-powerful all-knowing creator of the universe, worshiped as the only god
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861614462


God (MAKER)
(in especially Christian, Jewish and Muslim belief) the being which made the universe, the Earth and its people and is believed to have an effect on all things:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=33587&dict=CALD


God
The single god of various monotheistic religions.
The single male god of various duotheistic religions.
An impersonal and universal spiritual presence or force.
An omnipotent being, creator of the universe (as in deism).
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/God


god (noun)
in monotheistic religions, the creator and ruler of the universe, regarded as eternal, infinite, all-powerful, and all-knowing; Supreme Being; the Almighty
http://www.yourdictionary.com/god


god
(cap.) the omnipotent and omniscient being that is worshiped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the creator and ruler of the universe.
http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=god&matchtype=exact


God n.
1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
http://dictionary.infoplease.com/god

God (CREATOR)
(esp. in Christian, Jewish, and Muslim belief) the being that created and rules the universe, the earth, and its people
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=god*1+0&dict=A


God
(n.) The Supreme Being; the eternal and infinite Spirit, the Creator, and the Sovereign of the universe; Jehovah.
http://www.onelook.com/?other=web1913&w=God


GOD, n.
1. The Supreme Being; Jehovah; the eternal and infinite spirit, the creator, and the sovereign of the universe.
http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/word/god


God
God, the center and focus of religious faith, a holy being or ultimate reality to whom worship and prayer are addressed. Especially in monotheistic religions (see Monotheism), God is considered the creator or source of everything that exists and is spoken of in terms of perfect attributes—for instance, infinitude, immutability, eternity, goodness, knowledge (omniscience), and power (omnipotence). Most religions traditionally ascribe to God certain human characteristics that can be understood either literally or metaphorically, such as will, love, anger, and forgiveness.
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArticle.aspx?refid=761567455









There does not seem to be any mention of what atheists have for a definition of God as understood by writers and speakers of English.


I'm perfectly fine with all the above definitions of the word 'God', which also reconcile with the definition I provided:

'a conscious supernatural entity responsible for the existence of all things, but which, itself, does not require a source'

However, all of the above definitions say nothing about whether gods, in fact, exist.

Can we next get a list from the same websites for the word 'unicorn'?

[Sun Countess]

And from what you say about what you think God is or is not, they will not be at a loss to see why the vast majority of Americans take atheists as the most distrusted minority in the US.
Again with the insults and the distrust. Yrreg, there was absolutely nothing wrong with any of the atheist definitions of god. We understand the mythology behind god concepts. What do you think your belief in such a supernatural being says about you? And how exactly is your particular sky daddy a male again? Is it the genitalia, the DNA, or the beard that gives it away?

Did you never wonder why any given people's god beliefs always coincided with their own prejudices?

[Robert Oz]

There does not seem to be any mention of what atheists have for a definition of God as understood by writers and speakers of English.

So publishers of dictionaries of the English language don't see any reasons to include what atheists say about God as worthy of inclusion in a serious dictionary of the English language.


Yrreg,

You have been dishonest in presenting us with definitions you found on the internet and concluding they don't include something that would be acceptable to atheists.

I have added further definitions from some of the same websites you cited. Please provide reasons why you excluded them from your post. You couldn't have missed them.


Here are more definitions of God from online published dictionaries and quick encyclopedias:


<snip>


god (noun)
1. any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal, and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature; deity, esp. a male deity: typically considered objects of worship
2. an image that is worshiped; idol
3. a person or thing deified or excessively honored and admired
4. in monotheistic religions, the creator and ruler of the universe, regarded as eternal, infinite, all-powerful, and all-knowing; Supreme Being; the Almighty
http://www.yourdictionary.com/god


god
1. in various mythologies such as those of Greece and Rome, a being believed to have supernatural powers and therefore worshiped, esp. a male deity believed to control some part of nature or life in the world.
2.(cap.) the omnipotent and omniscient being that is worshiped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the creator and ruler of the universe.
3. a physical image or representation of a supernatural being; idol.
http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=god&matchtype=exact


<snip>


GOD, n.
1. The Supreme Being; Jehovah; the eternal and infinite spirit, the creator, and the sovereign of the universe.
2. A false god; a heathen deity; an idol.
...
4. Any person or thing exalted too much in estimation, or deified and honored as the chief good.
http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/word/god


Could it be that you left out definitions that included Greek and Roman gods, because you don't believe in them? Could it be that you left out false gods, because you may believe in one? Could it be you left out persons who are exalted too much, deified and honoured, because they remind you of your beliefs in Jesus Christ?

[Robert Oz]

As an addition to my last post, let's use either of the following definitions of 'god', both of which appear in the definitions you linked to:

'in various mythologies,... a being believed to have supernatural powers and therefore worshiped'

or

'any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal, and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature'

Note: I bolded the most relevant parts of the definitions.

[ThatSoundAgain]

I disagree. I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I can still easily define what he is.

That would be analogous to a specific god, like the Christian one(s) - as it is used in a general sense, the concept would cover not only Santa Claus, but easter bunnies, leprechauns, trolls, elves, yetis and bigfeet, pixies, sea serpents, dragons et cetera.

[Foster Zygote]

Here are more definitions of God from online published dictionaries and quick encyclopedias:


-snipped-


There does not seem to be any mention of what atheists have for a definition of God as understood by writers and speakers of English.

So publishers of dictionaries of the English language don't see any reasons to include what atheists say about God as worthy of inclusion in a serious dictionary of the English language.

leprechaun[b/]
–noun Irish Folklore.
1. a dwarf or sprite.
2. a conventionalized literary representation of this figure as a little old man who will reveal the location of a hidden crock of gold to anyone who catches him.

It's funny you should bring that up (and I do mean 'ha ha' funny, not 'peculiar' funny) because I can't seem to find any dictionary definitions that make mention of people who don't believe in leprechauns. I wonder if there's a pattern here...

[b]Buddhism
-noun
1. The teaching of Buddha that life is permeated with suffering caused by desire, that suffering ceases when desire ceases, and that enlightenment obtained through right conduct, wisdom, and meditation releases one from desire, suffering, and rebirth.
2. The religion represented by the many groups, especially numerous in Asia, that profess varying forms of this doctrine and that venerate Buddha.

Wow! I mean, just... WOW! I can't find a single mention of what non-Buddhists think about Buddhism in any dictionary definitions of Buddhism.

So publishers of dictionaries of the English language don't see any reasons to include what Gerry says about Buddhism as worthy of inclusion in a serious dictionary of the English language. Gerry, I'm so sorry. That must be devastating for you to accept. I guess you'll just have to abandon the apostle's creed and take up the eightfold path.

Anyway, you atheists can continue to say what you think God is or is not, and also bring up what your mentors like Dawkins and company say.
Sorry to disappoint you Gerry, but Richard Dawkins ain't the Pope of atheism. I was an atheist for years before I'd even heard of him.

In this manner people who use the English language will know the kind of scholarly heart and mind you possess when it comes to the definitions of God or what you people think about God.
See above, my newly minted Buddhist friend.

And from what you say about what you think God is or is not, they will not be at a loss to see why the vast majority of Americans take atheists as the most distrusted minority in the US.
Another interesting statistic from that survey is the fact that intolerance of atheists increased as the education level of the responders decreased. So it seems that, as always, bigotry is associated with being dumb.

[Foster Zygote]

Yrreg,

You have been dishonest in presenting us with definitions you found on the internet and concluding they don't include something that would be acceptable to atheists.

I have added further definitions from some of the same websites you cited. Please provide reasons why you excluded them from your post. You couldn't have missed them.





Could it be that you left out definitions that included Greek and Roman gods, because you don't believe in them? Could it be that you left out false gods, because you may believe in one? Could it be you left out persons who are exalted too much, deified and honoured, because they remind you of your beliefs in Jesus Christ?
Gerry's lyin' for Jeezus???

[Robert Oz]

Gerry's lyin' for Jeezus???


Can I get an "Amen!"?

[ThatSoundAgain]

Gerry's lyin' for Jeezus???

Nah, it's more like he's being indecipherable for Yahweh.

That, and managing the impressive feat of typing with an index finger firmly lodged in each ear, belting "All things bright and beautiful" all the while.

[Ryokan]

Wow! I mean, just... WOW! I can't find a single mention of what non-Buddhists think about Buddhism in any dictionary definitions of Buddhism.

So I guess that according to Yrreg's logic, that means Buddhism is true.

Good, then that's finally settled.

[Foster Zygote]

Nah, it's more like he's being indecipherable for Yahweh.

That, and managing the impressive feat of typing with an index finger firmly lodged in each ear, belting "All things bright and beautiful" all the while.

So that's what all the "penis" references originate from.

[Foster Zygote]

So I guess that according to Yrreg's logic, that means Buddhism is true.

Good, then that's finally settled.

Feh... He didn't even realize that according to his logic he really wants to murder people but doesn't do so simply because he doesn't think his god will let him get away with it.

[Eskarina]

Also, yrreg, what is wrong with Richard Dawkin's definition:

"a superhuman, supernatural intelligence who deliberately designed and created the universe and everything in it, including us."

(From the God Delusion)

It makes yrreg use his little toesis to count the words.

(Why do I read yrreg threads before 6 am?) :jaw-dropp

[Ryokan]

And from what you say about what you think God is or is not, they will not be at a loss to see why the vast majority of Americans take atheists as the most distrusted minority in the US.

That's not true of Norway, though, were atheist is pretty much the default position.

Norway has one of the lowest murder and crime rates in the world. Literacy is universal, and we have one of the highest educated populations in the world. Norway is at the top of its class when it comes to quality of life and happiness. A strong welfare system makes sure we take care of everyone, and poverty as they know it in most other countries doesn't exist here. Education and health care is free and available to everyone.

Meanwhile, the devout Catholic country of Phillipines has a high murder rate and almost a third of the population lives below the poverty line.*

Child mortality rates in Phillipines are 6 times higher than in Norway (20.56 deaths/1,000 live births against 3.58 for Norway), and the life expectancy is 9 years longer in Norway (79.95 years in Norway, against 71.09 years in Phillipines).

Here's a list of countries rated by absence of religion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonreligious

78% for Norway, 5% for Philipines. So clearly, religion has not made your country a very nice one, Yrreg, where children die at birth, people murder each other and you accept that a vast part of your population live in a terrible state of poverty.

So who has managed to build the best society, Yrreg? The terrible and amoral atheist Norwegians, or the devout religious Phillipinos?

*Facts gathered from the CIA Factbook.

[yrreg]

Also, yrreg, what is wrong with Richard Dawkin's definition:

"a superhuman, supernatural intelligence who deliberately designed and created the universe and everything in it, including us."

(From the God Delusion)



I want to see the exact page number of the book and its publication data.


If you have the book or can get to read it, just give me the two hundred words preceding that line and the two hundred words following that line.





Yrreg

[Foster Zygote]

Also, yrreg, what is wrong with Richard Dawkin's definition:

"a superhuman, supernatural intelligence who deliberately designed and created the universe and everything in it, including us."

(From the God Delusion)

Gee, that sounds just like Gerry's definition.

[Sun Countess]

If you have the book or can get to read it, just give me the two hundred words preceding that line and the two hundred words following that line.
What did Dawkins do to rate 400+ words while we all rate a measly 10? :jaw-dropp

[Foster Zygote]

I want to see the exact page number of the book and its publication data.


If you have the book or can get to read it, just give me the two hundred words preceding that line and the two hundred words following that line.





Yrreg

WTF, Gerry! You go from "ten words or less" to wanting four hundred and seventeen words??? It must really harsh your mellow to find that Richard Dawkins defines "God" pretty much the same way you do.

[Robert Oz]

I want to see the exact page number of the book and its publication data.


If you have the book or can get to read it, just give me the two hundred words preceding that line and the two hundred words following that line.





Yrreg


Buy the damn book if you want to read it.

[paximperium]

If you have the book or can get to read it, just give me the two hundred words preceding that line and the two hundred words following that line.
No. Copyright and forum rules forbid it. Go buy the God Delusion or go to a library.

[Ryokan]

Gee, that sounds just like Gerry's definition.

It's actually better. Yrreg says god made everything, which makes you wonder if he created himself. Dawkin's definition say he made the universe and everything in it, bypassing Yrreg's paradox.

Unless that paradox is part of Yrreg's beliefs.

[Robert Oz]

It must really harsh your mellow to find that Richard Dawkins defines "God" pretty much the same way you do.


Only because Dawkins follows the definition with several hundred pages of "doesn't exist".

[Robin]

I want to see the exact page number of the book and its publication data.


If you have the book or can get to read it, just give me the two hundred words preceding that line and the two hundred words following that line.

You want me to sit down and type out 400 words from the book?

I find it it a little disturbing that you have been making all these sweeping statements about what atheists say and believe and what Richard Dawkins says, and yet apparently you have never bothered to read this book.

[Robin]

It's actually better. Yrreg says god made everything, which makes you wonder if he created himself. Dawkin's definition say he made the universe and everything in it, bypassing Yrreg's paradox.

Unless that paradox is part of Yrreg's beliefs.
And also Dawkins defines God as intelligent, whereas intelligence is apparently optional for yrreg's God.

[Ryokan]

Yrreg is the embodiment of truthiness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness

[Sparhawk]

Lucky for us, it's all avaiable on google books (took 10 seconds to find yrreg).
http://books.google.com/books?id=yq1xDpicghkC&pg=PA31&dq=God+Delusion++%22a+superhuman,+supernatural+int elligence+who+deliberately+designed+and+created+th e+universe+and+everything+in+it,+including+us%22&ei=yc1WSsW2G5XUlQSvw-ScBw

[Robin]

Lucky for us, it's all avaiable on google books (took 10 seconds to find yrreg).
http://books.google.com/books?id=yq1xDpicghkC&pg=PA31&dq=God+Delusion++%22a+superhuman,+supernatural+int elligence+who+deliberately+designed+and+created+th e+universe+and+everything+in+it,+including+us%22&ei=yc1WSsW2G5XUlQSvw-ScBw

Thanks Sparhawk.

Yrreg, can you answer my question now - what is wrong with that definition?

[kerikiwi]

I want to see the exact page number of the book and its publication data.


If you have the book or can get to read it, just give me the two hundred words preceding that line and the two hundred words following that line.





Yrreg

Why?

[Robert Oz]

Why?


Because, Dawkins entire argument against God's existence must be on that page. The other 300 or so pages is just filler.

[Robert Oz]

What is most likely to happen now?

1. Yrreg will return to take the conversation further, now that he has been given Dawkins' definition of God and it seems to closely match his.

2. Yrreg will return to once again ask atheists to provide a definition of God, taking the thread back to the beginning.

3. Yrreg will abandon this thread and start a new one with another question in which he hopes to lead atheists towards knowledge of God's existence using the Socratic method.

[realpaladin]

In any case, for yer bookmarks you know:

http://forums.randi.org/search.php?searchid=28722

The Yrreg thread list.

[HansMustermann]

What is most likely to happen now?

1. Yrreg will return to take the conversation further, now that he has been given Dawkins' definition of God and it seems to closely match his.

2. Yrreg will return to once again ask atheists to provide a definition of God, taking the thread back to the beginning.

3. Yrreg will abandon this thread and start a new one with another question in which he hopes to lead atheists towards knowledge of God's existence using the Socratic method.

Or...

4. Yrreg will pretend that it's an IQ test and giving any other definition or interpretation than his makes you stupid.

(Oh, wait, he already sorta did that.)

5. Yrreg will claim that if you talk about God at all or have a definition of God, then you actually believe in Him, and your whole atheism is just some kind of silly rebellion or revenge against God.

(Don't laugh, he's pulled that card before. I wonder why he rebels against Buddhism, then;))

[kerikiwi]

Because, Dawkins entire argument against God's existence must be on that page. The other 300 or so pages is just filler.

And here was I thinking we were still trying to establish what god is before we show how he doesn't exist...

[Fiona]

In any case, for yer bookmarks you know:

http://forums.randi.org/search.php?searchid=28722

The Yrreg thread list.

Can't do it that way realpaladin: for some reason you can't link the search function results

[MRC_Hans]

OK, Gerry, now take this seriously, for a change:

The ateist's definition of God: Non-existent.


Okay, let's put it this way, describe to me the god(s) you claim to not know or deny existence to.

In not more than ten words.

Gods the existence of which I deny: Any supernatural beings that others arbitrarily define as gods.



I define God from my part as a theist of the Christian tradition in three words:

Maker of everything.

And I want to know if that is the God you claim to not know or to deny existence to.

On the assumption that your definiton implies a supernatural being: Yes, that is one god I deny existence to.

(Or to be absolutely precise, since I'm really a soft atheist, deny knowledge of)

OTOH, if your very loose definiton above encompasses an entitiy as "the universe": Not necessarily.

Otherwise, please go away from this thread if you cannot say in only ten words what you do not know or you deny existence to.


Unfortunately, you are not the arbiter of who can post here.

Just the same, if you do not know God, I am telling you that for me a theist, God is the maker of everything.

That would seem to be SOP for theists.

If you deny existence of God the maker of everything, then I will say that you and I we have an impasse on the existence of God; because for me God exists, but for you God does not exist.

That would seem to be the standard impasse between theists and atheists.

So you can go your way and I my way in regard to God's existence, but we can still exist and live as to collaborate making life better for all mankind.

I surely hope so. At least there is nothing in my worldview that should prevent that.

Hans

[yrreg]

Originally Posted by Robin
Also, yrreg, what is wrong with Richard Dawkin's definition:

"a superhuman, supernatural intelligence who deliberately designed and created the universe and everything in it, including us."

(From the God Delusion)



I want to see the exact page number of the book and its publication data.


If you have the book or can get to read it, just give me the two hundred words preceding that line and the two hundred words following that line.





Yrreg


On the supposition that Dawkins really came to his definition of God from his faculty of reasoning and his knowledge of logic, then I must congratulate him for coming to the same concept of God as mine.

One criticism though, why does he not just say as I say for a very pithy and most complete definition of God, namely:


Maker of everything.



That is why I keep telling people to reduce to the most essential words but complete thoughts their ideas, otherwise they don't know what they are talking about, or they think that they are saying profound things by using so many words and invented terms, but any keen mind even just a kid with the use of reason can see through their cover of obscurantism with their plethora of empty words.


Okay, Dawkins, congratulations for having come to the definition of God from using your reason and applying logic, unshackling yourself from your otherwise dungeoned mind in which you could not otherwise than never come to the correct idea of God as He really is in essence and in existence, namely, in relation to man and to the universe, maker of everything.

But good man Dawkins, you can say that in three words as I do for your definition of God, namely:


Maker of everything.





Yrreg

[Oliver]

Definition of god:

Abstract creature being in control of everything, as conceived by prehistoric truthers to explain all their unanswered questions due to the lack of science back then.

I actually should've highlighted the term prehistoric truthers.

End of thread.


Yrreg? :confused:

[MRC_Hans]

Maker of everything.




YrregNot quite. Your definition is really too broad to be useful. It can quite reasonably be said to encompas the materialistic universe.

Your three word statement is not a definition your God, it is a statement about your God.

Hans

[Mojo]

Not quite. Your definition is really too broad to be useful. It can quite reasonably be said to encompas the materialistic universe.

Your three word statement is not a definition your God, it is a statement about your God.


It also implies that Yrreg's god made itself. Hasn't he been objecting that atheists think they "came from nothing" recently? Why doesn't he object to his god managing the same feat?

[Fiona]

On the supposition that Dawkins really came to his definition of God from his faculty of reasoning and his knowledge of logic, then I must congratulate him for coming to the same concept of God as mine.

One criticism though, why does he not just say as I say for a very pithy and most complete definition of God, namely:


Maker of everything.



That is why I keep telling people to reduce to the most essential words but complete thoughts their ideas, otherwise they don't know what they are talking about, or they think that they are saying profound things by using so many words and invented terms, but any keen mind even just a kid with the use of reason can see through their cover of obscurantism with their plethora of empty words.


Okay, Dawkins, congratulations for having come to the definition of God from using your reason and applying logic, unshackling yourself from your otherwise dungeoned mind in which you could not otherwise than never come to the correct idea of God as He really is in essence and in existence, namely, in relation to man and to the universe, maker of everything.

But good man Dawkins, you can say that in three words as I do for your definition of God, namely:


Maker of everything.


Yrreg

So now what ?

[Ryokan]

It also implies that Yrreg's god made itself. Hasn't he been objecting that atheists think they "came from nothing" recently? Why doesn't he object to his god managing the same feat?

Yeah, I made that point back on page 3 :D

Dawkins' definition is better, even if it is more words. Sometimes you have to use more words to convey what you really mean. Not even the dictionaries quoted by Yrreg try to shorten it all down to three words.

But the two definitions are close enough. I'm still willing to accept Yrreg's definition, as its his god. So I'll echo Fiona: now what?

[Alex Libman]

A fictional character, and a very poorly written one.

[Ryokan]

Actually, I will settle this matter.

From the mouth (or, well, keyboard) of Yrreg himself:

Anyway, I am an academic atheist or nontheist or secularist or infidel myself.

From here: http://www.freeratio.org//showpost.php?p=1961879&postcount=101

Pachomius2000 is Yrreg.

So, since he either was an atheist or still am one, he should know the answer to his question himself.

[Fiona]

Are you sure ? That person can string coherent sentences together

[Ryokan]

Are you sure ? That person can string coherent sentences together

Yes.

See this thread: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=66496

[Mojo]

"Laugh and I will gladly laugh with you in the next lines..." is a bit of a giveaway as well:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=68618

[Cainkane1]

God is somewhere between Cosmic muffin and hairy thunderer.

[laca]

On the supposition that Dawkins really came to his definition of God from his faculty of reasoning and his knowledge of logic, then I must congratulate him for coming to the same concept of God as mine.


He didn't come to any definition. He took a widespread definition of a god and essentially debunked it.

Also, if I define something, that doesn't mean I believe it. One has to define something in order to be able to reason about it in any useful manner.

[megaresp]

...what is the definition of God from atheists...
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nothing
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nonexistent
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/myth

That's enough to be going on with.

[Femke]

By the way, pachiomus2000 was banned from that forum.
He wouldn't have behaved himself in exactly the same manner there, would he? :jaw-dropp

Femke

[Ryokan]

By the way, pachiomus2000 was banned from that forum.
He wouldn't have behaved himself in exactly the same manner there, would he?

Femke

According to Yrreg, it was all a Buddhist conspiracy.

[Femke]

According to Yrreg, it was all a Buddhist conspiracy.

Ah, that explains it then.
So if he gets himself banned here, would it be an atheists' conspiracy? How many conspiracies can you blame before you start thinking it might be your own fault?

[Fiona]

Unteachable, apparently

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=128066&highlight=banned&page=5

I have never been banned here for writing the way I write, unlike in openly atheistic forums where they ban me time and again for just writing the way I do here, because they cannot bear to read things which their reason and intelligence can perceive brilliantly to make sense, they are creatures of the dark.

[Dave Rogers]

How would you tell a created universe from a random haphazard one?


A random haphazard one would have threads like this in it.

Dave

[Ocelot]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.:

There are many Gods that have been postulated, each having different definitions to distinguish them. Such definitions have been provided in bold. If you're interested in my further exposition then it's provided.

From my own part as a theist, I define God thus in three words:

Maker of everything.

I hope you don't mind me saying that seems rather sloppy as a definition of a theistic god. It seems rather closer to the God of a Deist.

The difference being that deists believe in a God who created everything, who set the wheels in motion, so to speak but from then on was hands off. Some even consider a god who created the universe out of himself and thus ceased to exist at that moment or was otherwise substantially transformed into something other than the creator.

Some deists consider that God may have been involved with his creation beyond the initial spark, perhaps guiding the development of the universe such that mankind was formed. That God is the creator of the world and the creator of mankind but takes no active involvement to this present day.

Some say that mankind was not part of God’s intent but that he is indifferent to our existence.

Some consider a creator god whose creation was by conscious intent, others consider a creation to be an accident of a greater being perhaps one who is not even self aware.

Some consider the creator God to be the only god whether or not he also fulfils different roles. Others consider the creator god to be one of many gods.

Some consider gods who aren't the creator of everything, for example Prometheus creator or illuminator of man, but not creator of the universe.

So you see, many different gods fit your description.

If I was only going by this definition of your "God" I might equally assume that you were a polytheist worshiping the Hindu God Brahmin

I belong to the Christian tradition in regard to my definition of God.

In which case your God is usually described to have the following additional characteristics:

Omnipotent
Omnipresent
Omni benevolent
Omniscient

He is considered to be eternal and necessary

He is considered to have created the universe as you say.
Many take it further and believe he was directly involved in the subsequent creation of the sun, earth, life and mankind. (Though others presume that these were simply an inevitable part of creation implicit in the blueprints at the beginning and all God had to do was light the blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance. All agree that mankind was an intended part of his paln. Some deist disagree
He is the lawgiver source of moral guidance.
He listens to and answers prayers.
He is also considered to hold mankind in special regard, to have ensoulded us thus granting us eternal life.
In the Christian tradition he is considered to have incarnated as his own son and died as a sacrifice enabling him to redeem our sins

I just wish that I can have a clear idea of what is God for the atheists, so that I can be definite exactly what God they are claiming not to know for certain or to deny existence to.

So here we go with your answers. I answer one for a number of definitions of God.

God the creator of the universe:

I have studied origins and do not find the God hypothesis necessary. i do not outright deny the possibility of a creator entity for the universe, but do not find it necessary to believe in one either.

God the creator of man:

As above except with more direct evidence for what actually appears to have happened. Evolution by natural selection from a common ancestor.

God the guardian of man/God who answers prayer:

This character is usually believe to listen to and answer intercessionary prayer. Of all the descriptions this is most open to empirical testing. Science should be able to detect such an effect. No such effect has been detected in randomised double blind trials of intercessionary prayer. If such a characeter does exist then worshiping him does you no specific good.

God the Omniscient,
God the Omnipotent
God the Omnipresent
God the Omnibenevolent:
Well omnipotent gives rise to a paradox all on its own. Can he make a burito to hot for him to eat? Other various paradoxes arise from diffferent combinations of these characteristsics. God allows evil to exist, this either means that he can't stop evil and is therefore not omnipresent, that he doesn't want to and is therefore not omnibenevolent, doesn't know it's happening and is therefore not omniscient. The latter raising the question of why bother with intercessionary prayer anyway.

As such I can say for certain that various combinations of these are impossible and dismiss them entirely.

Theologians have argued to redefine these characteristics to avoid paradoxes. God is omnipotent in that he can do anything possible but not the impossible. God is omnibenevolent and the probelem of evil an illusion created by our limited senses and if we only had god wisdom we'd see that all is part of his ineffiible plan for the greater good. Such apologia are harder to dismiss in absolute terms but I still see little evidence for asuch a being to exist.

One aspect alone, omnipressence I have sympathy with. A god whose only characteristic is ominpressence may simply be fullfilled by redefining the universe itself as God. In other words God is everything. I have leaning towards the secular pantheist God of Bendict de Spinoza. It requires no supernatural belief.

God the necessary:
As you've seen what definitions of God I haven't dismissed as logical impossibilities I've mostly dismissed as unecessary. Occams Razor suggests such definitions refer to non-existant Gods. A definition of God the necessary rings true of a God of the gaps. An explanation where none other has been found and as such an impediment for finding the explanation.

God the eternal:
Augustus discussed the Gods eternal nature. The guy was way ahead of his era in being able to concieve of space and time and a there being the possibilities of being outside of that. Such a being might appear as a God and I know too little about the nature of conciousness or the cosmos to dismiss the possibility of conciousness outside of our space time. Anthropocentric thinking has been proven wrong time and again some it would be rather presumtive to say thare was something unique about our space time. And yet I have no use for a theory whihc says otherwise. Especially not a theory which contrives to say that there is only one conciousness outside of space time. Certainly a theory positied in cosmic modesty would be inconsistent to ascribe a special relationship between us and such a being. Yet the simple existence of beings from outside our space time is quite plausbile, if you wanted to call such being's gods then they certainly fulfil at least one common part of the accepted usage of that word.


Please be brief in words, because when people use so many words to say what they intend to convey to people like myself, I have the suspicion that they either don't know what they are talking about, or they cannot use clear words to convey what they do know.

In which case they should think more carefully exactly what they do know about what they want to convey to people, and also choose carefully the fewest words that can deliver the exact ideas of what they know.


Otherwise I will tell them to go away from this thread, so as not to waste the time of readers here and the forum's bandwidth.





Yrreg


If you want brevity then just read the bolded bits.


According to my religious instruction the Christian God is typically supposed to embody all these characteristic. I consider the existence of such a being to be inconsistent with my observations of reality

[Ryokan]

So if he gets himself banned here, would it be an atheists' conspiracy?

No, that would be a Buddhist conspiracy too.

Yrreg was leading quite the crusade against Buddhism before, over a very long period, and was quite sure that this forum, and even the entire internet, had been infiltrated by Buddhists trying to silence all criticism of Buddhism. He even once hinted that Randi himself was a closet Buddhist, since he had done no major debunking of Buddhism.

The evidence of this conspiracy? The fact that he has been banned from all forums where he led his anti-Buddhist crusade, including the Internet Infidels forum, a Buddhist forum and, if I remember correctly, a mechanics forum.

The crusade reached its highpoint when he learned that one of the JREF moderators was a Buddhist, and he started a grand campaign to get this person removed, as a Buddhist would be disqualified as a moderator simply on the basis of being a Buddhist.

Later he learned that the Buddhist moderator was Lisa Simpson, someone he had on several occasions praised for being a civil and impartial moderator.

Most of the threads of his crusade against the JREF Buddhist conspiracy is gone, or I can't find them. But there's some remnants of it:

Is that a fact, Lisa? you are a Buddhist?

----snip------

If you, Lisa, are in fact a Buddhist in your own definition or appreciation or idea of Buddhism, and even though I did ask for Buddhists to not continue being mods or admins or any kind of operators except this forum except if involved exclusively in technical matters, like say a plumber in the office quarters of YREF...

If you Lisa, are in fact a Buddhist and a moderator here, then in the exercise of my personal sovereignty to judge a person worthy of office as moderator or administrator in this JREF, I will and I do make an exception of you, from what I call my educated knowledge of your professional attitude whereby you keep your Buddhism apart from your office as a moderator, and I have never seen you acting otherwise.

Buddhists can be plumbers, but heaven forbid they be forum moderators! :D

I make an exception of Lisa because she is not a committed fanatical Buddhist, proof of that is that she is not defending Buddhism with all kinds of fallacious strategems, and also she does not resort to namecalling and labeling.

I will call Lisa a reformed Buddhist, Ryokan is another one here. Others will have to earn their promotion or award pending further observation on their change of heart and mind, so that they don't exhibit bigotry, fanaticism, and faith at all costs in supporting Buddhism of their whatever brand.

I am working on a better name for reformed Buddhists; what about nominal Buddhists, but the name is somewhat pejorative. Perhaps Yrregian Buddhist, yes! that should be the most appropriate and meritorious.

Yay, me and Lisa are Yrregian Buddhists :rolleyes:

[joobz]

As Yrreg likes to request others to be brief, I thought I'd boil down his posts to the key elements
On the supposition that Dawkins really came to his definition of God from his faculty of reasoning and his knowledge of logic, then I must congratulate him for coming to the same concept of God as mine.
Yrreg Loves Richard Dawkins.


One criticism though, why does he not just say as I say for a very pithy and most complete definition of God, namely:

Maker of everything.
But he talks alot.


That is why I keep telling people to reduce to the most essential words but complete thoughts their ideas, otherwise they don't know what they are talking about, or they think that they are saying profound things by using so many words and invented terms, but any keen mind even just a kid with the use of reason can see through their cover of obscurantism with their plethora of empty words.

Yrreg hates himself for being dumber than a child.

Okay, Dawkins, congratulations for having come to the definition of God from using your reason and applying logic, unshackling yourself from your otherwise dungeoned mind in which you could not otherwise than never come to the correct idea of God as He really is in essence and in existence, namely, in relation to man and to the universe, maker of everything.

But good man Dawkins, you can say that in three words as I do for your definition of God, namely:

Maker of everything.

Boy O' Boy does Yrreg Love Dawkins.


I think this thread is becoming a love story.

[RoboTimbo]

god
1. in various mythologies such as those of Greece and Rome, a being believed to have supernatural powers and therefore worshiped, esp. a male deity believed to control some part of nature or life in the world.
2.(cap.) the omnipotent and omniscient being that is worshiped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the creator and ruler of the universe.
3. a physical image or representation of a supernatural being; idol.
http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.p...atchtype=exact


Let's use this definition of a god for the rest of the thread.

Ok, now what?

[Dancing David]

Here are more definitions of God from online published dictionaries and quick encyclopedias:

God (noun)
supreme being: the being believed in monotheistic religions such as Judaism, Islam, and Christianity to be the all-powerful all-knowing creator of the universe, worshiped as the only god
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861614462


God (MAKER)
(in especially Christian, Jewish and Muslim belief) the being which made the universe, the Earth and its people and is believed to have an effect on all things:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=33587&dict=CALD


God
The single god of various monotheistic religions.
The single male god of various duotheistic religions.
An impersonal and universal spiritual presence or force.
An omnipotent being, creator of the universe (as in deism).
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/God


god (noun)
in monotheistic religions, the creator and ruler of the universe, regarded as eternal, infinite, all-powerful, and all-knowing; Supreme Being; the Almighty
http://www.yourdictionary.com/god


god
(cap.) the omnipotent and omniscient being that is worshiped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the creator and ruler of the universe.
http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=god&matchtype=exact


God n.
1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
http://dictionary.infoplease.com/god

God (CREATOR)
(esp. in Christian, Jewish, and Muslim belief) the being that created and rules the universe, the earth, and its people
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=god*1+0&dict=A


God
(n.) The Supreme Being; the eternal and infinite Spirit, the Creator, and the Sovereign of the universe; Jehovah.
http://www.onelook.com/?other=web1913&w=God


GOD, n.
1. The Supreme Being; Jehovah; the eternal and infinite spirit, the creator, and the sovereign of the universe.
http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/word/god


God
God, the center and focus of religious faith, a holy being or ultimate reality to whom worship and prayer are addressed. Especially in monotheistic religions (see Monotheism), God is considered the creator or source of everything that exists and is spoken of in terms of perfect attributes—for instance, infinitude, immutability, eternity, goodness, knowledge (omniscience), and power (omnipotence). Most religions traditionally ascribe to God certain human characteristics that can be understood either literally or metaphorically, such as will, love, anger, and forgiveness.
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArticle.aspx?refid=761567455




...
Yrreg

Can't say there is evidence for any of them.

How would you tell a created universe from a random haphazard one?
Iteration 2

[Dancing David]

What did Dawkins do to rate 400+ words while we all rate a measly 10? :jaw-dropp

Hung out and had sex with Mrs. Garrison?

[Dancing David]

Unteachable, apparently

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=128066&highlight=banned&page=5

I think he posted upon a topic he was told he would be banned for posting upon.

[Dancing David]

A random haphazard one would have threads like this in it.

Dave


:D

[JFrankA]

*yawn* Good morning, everyone! Did I miss anything new?

*reads Gerry's posts* Oh. Pontification. Self-importance. Ignoring others. Calling people who disagree with him unintelligent. More of the same I see....

[MRC_Hans]

It also implies that Yrreg's god made itself. Hasn't he been objecting that atheists think they "came from nothing" recently? Why doesn't he object to his god managing the same feat?Well, I assume said god has an array of unspecified supernatural powers, one of which might be the ability to create itself. .. Or, at least, create the entity that Yrreg now defines as God.

One must remember that the dilemma of origin is really commpon to all, theists and non-theists alike. Either something has 'always' existed, or there was a point when everything started.

Hans

[realpaladin]

One must remember that the dilemma of origin is really commpon to all, theists and non-theists alike. Either something has 'always' existed, or there was a point when everything started.

Or everything exists for a while, then stops existing for an indetermined time (as time has no meaning), then resumes existence (like a hibernate of your OS) at the point where it stopped existing.

There is a good case to be made for the answer; "be that as it may, but we can not know at this time".

[HansMustermann]

Well, I assume said god has an array of unspecified supernatural powers, one of which might be the ability to create itself. .. Or, at least, create the entity that Yrreg now defines as God.

One must remember that the dilemma of origin is really commpon to all, theists and non-theists alike. Either something has 'always' existed, or there was a point when everything started.

Hans

The difference is that theists invariably point it out as some hideous failure of any secular model of the universe, but then act as if their thing is perfectly allowed and justified to fail the same requirement.

[catbasket]

Taking a page out of Yrreg's book wherein he redefines the word 'know' to mean exactly the same as the word 'believe' I have decided to redefine the word 'god' to mean the same as 'Navel lint'. Therefore, to me, -

God is an accumulation of fluff in my belly button, which for some unknown reason appears to be blue even when I haven't worn any blue clothing in days. This is one of the greatest mysteries of god.

Yrreg's definition of god as 'maker of everything' is obvious nonsense as my belly button fluff did not exist until approx 13.7 billion years after the Big Bang.

[Robin]

But good man Dawkins, you can say that in three words as I do for your definition of God, namely:


Maker of everything.

No, Dawkins definition is much better than yours. You don't consider intelligence as a necessary attribute of God and therefore your "God" might just be blind forces.

That would just make you an Atheist in denial (which I suspect you are anyway).

Also your definition is logically impossible - "maker of everything" would imply it made itself.

At the very least you have to have:

"Purposefully intelligent maker of everything except itself"

[Marcus]

Let's not tip-toe around your definition of God. The above is not your definition of God. Your definition of God is more along the lines of:

Male, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, intelligent, conscious and free maker of everything who is deeply concerned about everything he created, but, in particular, mankind, from whom he requires belief and worship and promises eternity in paradise as a reward and eternal punishment for those who do not believe and worship accordingly.



.
"Maker of everything" doesn't even come close to defining the Christian god, Gerry. It seems that you are ashamed of all those attributes you believe in that makes you a Christian.

[joobz]

My Definition of god:

The SI unit of measure for reciprocal dogs.

[rikzilla]

Nah, it's more like he's being indecipherable for Yahweh.

That, and managing the impressive feat of typing with an index finger firmly lodged in each ear, belting "All things bright and beautiful" all the while.

Well I think he's doing a fine job of
obfuscating for Odin!

[Tormac]

Hi yrreg,

I’m an Atheist, and longtime lurker here. I’ve mucked my way through this thread, and am not sure what you’re hoping for, but I’ll give you my definition of “God” in ten words or less. I’d be happy to give you my critique of your definition if you would like.

Mine is “A construct evoked to provide solace from the universe.”

Note that this is what I think the best definition of the Monotheistic Judean/Christian/Moslem idea of “God” is, as an Atheist. Even with that, I do not think that my definition (or yours for that matter) fits with the idea of the classical Christian trinity well at all. A problem that a lot of Atheists have in defining the idea of “God” is that everyone we talk to seem to have a different definition of it, even within a single religious traditions and it leads to a constant steam of “no true Scotsman” style arguments that feel like a waste of time after a while. I have to try to explain to you what I think about what you think as there is no objective way to measure the properties of a hypothetical “God”. I hope you can understand why most Atheists balk at, or find if difficult to fulfill your request.

I’ll be blunt yrreg, I suspect your thread is a subtle attempt to steal my slack, and thus I am suspicious of your motives, but still I look forward to your reply and will do my best to reply in kind.

[Christian Klippel]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.

Fiction.

[Fireshadow]

He didn't come to any definition. He took a widespread definition of a god and essentially debunked it.

Also, if I define something, that doesn't mean I believe it. One has to define something in order to be able to reason about it in any useful manner.

I already made that point (althoug much more verbosely). So have many others. Yrreg doesn't care unless you play by his arbitrary rules.

[Beerina]

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.

From my own part as a theist, I define God thus in three words:


Maker of everything.


Which god?


Which everything?


He didn't make the keyboard in front of me. He may have made the matter that makes it up, but he didn't make it.


Secondly, your definition implies God made Himself. God is a thing, and that's part of "everything". And, although certain theo-philosophies propose things can just self-instantiate, I don't think that necessarily implies a conscious entity.





Hmmmm. This should be testable in theory. For example, your theory suggests there may be, but not necessarily are, keep in mind, things that exist that require a creator. And not just a creator, but a higher level creater on the order of a creator of reality.

Do you have any such observations?

[Shalamar]

Guys, this is just one of Yrregs many infamous 'Gotcha' threads.

Same crap over and over.

He wants Atheists to admit that 'God is the Maker of everything yadda yadda' so he can show that Atheists only hate and deny god, not that they do not believe in such a being.

[Z]

Yrreg:

Atheists do not believe in ANY god, regardless of what definition is used, so long as the definition used does not redefine god into an otherwise normal object or process.

That's pretty much it - end of thread.

To post further would be pointless.

[RoboTimbo]

Guys, this is just one of Yrregs many infamous 'Gotcha' threads.

Same crap over and over.

He wants Atheists to admit that 'God is the Maker of everything yadda yadda' so he can show that Atheists only hate and deny god, not that they do not believe in such a being.

Everyone realizes that. yrreG will never realize that everyone is about 27 steps ahead of him. He's fun to toy with, though.

[joobz]

My definition of god:

A vocalization made by homosapiens during the climax of Coitus.

[EventHorizon]

That is why I keep telling people to reduce to the most essential words but complete thoughts their ideas, otherwise they don't know what they are talking about, or they think that they are saying profound things by using so many words and invented terms, but any keen mind even just a kid with the use of reason can see through their cover of obscurantism with their plethora of empty words.

Yrreg

Let me guess, you don't see the irony in what you just posted at all. I would imagine that any keen mind, even just a kid, can see through your 'cover of obscurantism with your plethora of empty words'.


So let's see. Anybody that doesn't agree with Gerry is wrong. He's also rude, ignorant, biased and insults anyone who doesn't agree with him. He's implied that the only thing that keeps him from murdering is his belief in an imaginary friend. I'll let others judge him but that doesn't exactly paint a flattering picture.

[Upchurch]

My definition of god(s):

An intellectual framework conceived of by humans to explain phenomena, both natural and emotional, when naturalistic explanations are either unavailable or individually undesirable.

Or in other words:

God(s) are those things you make up to explain things like thunder or love when you either don't know (or don't want to know) what really causes them.

eta: Sorry, in 10 words:

An entity fabricated to explain the world without any support.

[JFrankA]

My definition of god:

What gerry believes to be the maker of everything. (nonexistant)


That's ten words, gerry, and using your own definition AND not denying god.



....you can go start another thread now.....

[Elizabeth I]

I want to see the exact page number of the book and its publication data.

If you have the book or can get to read it, just give me the two hundred words preceding that line and the two hundred words following that line.

WTF, Gerry! You go from "ten words or less" to wanting four hundred and seventeen words??? It must really harsh your mellow to find that Richard Dawkins defines "God" pretty much the same way you do.

Why?

OK, I think this officially nails it - yrreg is a troll.

[Upchurch]

OK, I think this officially nails it - yrreg is a troll.
What? This is what officially nailed it? Not the loads of useless crap that came before it?

[Elizabeth I]

My definition:

The anthropomorphization of the unknown--

(Mine is five words... I win!)

Nominated.

[yrreg]

Thanks for the pm, Ocelot, much flattered.

I just want to know what is the definition of God from atheists.

There are many Gods that have been postulated, each having different definitions to distinguish them. Such definitions have been provided in bold. If you're interested in my further exposition then it's provided.

From my own part as a theist, I define God thus in three words:

Maker of everything.


[...]

According to my religious instruction the Christian God is typically supposed to embody all these characteristic. I consider the existence of such a being to be inconsistent with my observations of reality


My definition of God as maker of everything, that definition is like money with God.

You see, as in life you have got to have money before anything else, so also with God, He has got to have made everything before we can even proceed to talk about the paradoxes [sic] of God.

First, give God His definition of maker of everything, then work out the paradoxes.

If you can't reconcile paradoxes in your insights into God, change your insights, but don't take away from God His being maker of everything in regard to man and the universe known to man.

Or you can just accept and get along as well as you can manage and consider the paradoxes of God in your human understanding, emphasis on human, as mysteries of God.

Now. if you belong to the same group of God-knowers, including knowing the paradoxes, you can try the democratic way of resolving paradoxes when you have to come to a common decision on a course of action, put it to a vote.


Hahahaha! [Sardonic humor]




Yrreg

[Hokulele]

So, your God came from nothing?

Got it.

[yrreg]

How are you, Yrreg?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello, Yrreg,

even if I don't know your first name, I'm Oliver and I did read your Atheists, what is your definition of God?-thread.

I'm just a normal guy from Germany and I was raised as a Roman-Catholic when I was a child. However, I lost my believe in God but I don't consider me as being an Atheist per se, because I rather tend to think that God is what you feel in your heart, not what a Gospel says.

Maybe you like to respond to my PM despite all the people who say that you're dishonest. It would be an honor to me if you take some time to reply ...

Cheers,
Oliver




I am now into DIY* Christianity.

DIY Christianity consists in knowing God according to reason as is propounded by the Roman Catholic Church, namely, that God can be known for certain by human reason, and then choosing what Christianity teaches in specific beliefs and observances to be of revelation from God in Jesus Christ, etc. etc. etc.

That for me is my Christianity of the free thinking man.


I think that should be a good thread for Christians who are plagued by all kinds of paradoxes with God and with institutional teachings from the Christian group they happened to have been born and grown up in, for example, the Roman Catholic Church of the Vatican loyalty.



Hahahahaha! [Sardonic humor]


To live your DIY Christianity, you have got to have intellectual and volitional guts.



Okay?




*DIY = Do It Yourself.

[Sun Countess]

If you understood that, Hokulele, I bow down to you. I don't want to admit that I didn't understand it but that was really a lot more word salad than yrreg usually serves, and I've just finished lunch.

You see, as in life you have got to have money before anything else
When did this become true? Even ignoring other cultures and time periods, I know of people living in North America today who don't have a single cent, but still have life.

[Piscivore]

To live your DIY Christianity, you have got to have intellectual and volitional guts.

Wrong. Believing what pleases one to do so is the opposite of "intellectual and volitional guts". It takes courage and integrity to accept what evidence and reason demonstrate, especially when it runs counter to what one would prefer to believe.

[dlorde]

... God can be known for certain by human reason
Cool - please explain the reasoning that allows this. For me, the major problem with the idea of god has been that it isn't a rational concept. I'd be interested (and challenged) by a plausible reasoned argument for it.

[joobz]

The following is a Joobz sanctioned translation of Yrreg.
I am now into DIY* Christianity.

DIY Christianity consists in knowing God according to reason as is propounded by the Roman Catholic Church, namely, that God can be known for certain by human reason, and then choosing what Christianity teaches in specific beliefs and observances to be of revelation from God in Jesus Christ, etc. etc. etc.
I'm Roman Catholic.


I believe christianity is That for me is my Christianity of the free thinking man.


I think that should be a good thread for Christians who are plagued by all kinds of paradoxes with God and with institutional teachings from the Christian group they happened to have been born and grown up in, for example, the Roman Catholic Church of the Vatican loyalty.

I am Roman Catholic, unless it suits me not to be. I make it up as I go along.



Hahahahaha! [Sardonic humor]

To live your DIY Christianity, you have got to have intellectual and volitional guts.

Hee hee. I get to say what and how christianity is and you can't stop me!!

[Lucian]

Because Yrreg seems so fond of dictionary definitions, I was going to quote the Oxford English Dictionary (the dictionary all other English dictionaries aspire to be when they grow up), but then I realized that the OED used far more than 10 words and would therefore be dismissed as foolish. Precision, comprehensiveness, accuracy, history=idiocy, apparently. Stupid enormous repository of research and knowledge of English vocabulary! Bad dictionary!

Nonetheless, it seemed worth mentioning that the first definition of "god" in the OED in no way resembles Yrreg's because the OED begins with the original meaning, and that, of course, is the pagan meaning. The English word "god" antedates the Anglo-Saxon conversion to Christianity. So maybe we should start with that definition: "A supernatural person who is worshipped as having power over nature and the fortunes of men" (slightly shortened version of OED's def. I.1 of "god" with lengthy discussion omitted because discussion is foolish).

Is that definition acceptable to theists?

[Foster Zygote]

Thanks for the pm, Ocelot, much flattered.
Yeah, too bad you seem to have edited so much of the exchange before re-posting it here. Why are we supposed to PM you our post and then wait for you to respond to them here? Is it so that you can leave out the posts and bits of posts that you have difficulty addressing?

My definition of God as maker of everything, that definition is like money with God.
Making everything must have been expensive.

You see, as in life you have got to have money before anything else, so also with God, He has got to have made everything before we can even proceed to talk about the paradoxes [sic] of God.
Lots of living things seem to get by just fine without money so your above sentence is nonsense. By the way, [sic] is used to denote that a spelling or grammatical error, or an archaic usage has been quoted verbatim from a quoted source and is not a typographical or grammatical error on the part of the one presenting the quote. The fact that you used [sic] to follow the correct plural spelling of the word "paradox" suggests that you have no idea what that notation is for and simply threw it in because you thought it made your post look more sophisticated. You can fake vocabulary with the use of a thesaurus, but you can't so easily fake the finer points of English grammar.

First, give God His definition of maker of everything, then work out the paradoxes.

If you can't reconcile paradoxes in your insights into God, change your insights, but don't take away from God His being maker of everything in regard to man and the universe known to man.
In other words: decide what you want to believe and then find an excuse to believe it. This is the opposite of science. Thank you for admitting that you simply want to believe in your god and then rationalize backward from there, ignoring contradictory evidence and fabricating supporting evidence where necessary.

Or you can just accept and get along as well as you can manage and consider the paradoxes of God in your human understanding, emphasis on human, as mysteries of God.
So, ignore the stuff that contradicts your desired belief. No thanks. I'd rather know a humbling truth than succor myself with a pleasant delusion.

Now. if you belong to the same group of God-knowers, including knowing the paradoxes, you can try the democratic way of resolving paradoxes when you have to come to a common decision on a course of action, put it to a vote.
Sorry, Gerry, but reality isn't subject to popular vote. Group fantasies on the other hand...

[RoboTimbo]

Now, that is a good topic for a thread, who commit more suicides, atheists or theists?

Yrreg

Dear friend Yrreg.

You're from the Phillipines, a very devout Catholic country. I'm from Norway, one of the countries with the highest amount of atheists in the world.

Yet, according to Wikipedia, murder rates in your country is 5,5 times higher than in mine (Phillipines, 4,31 murders per year per 100.000 citizens and Norway, 0,78 per 100.000).

How can that be? :confused:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_rates

yrreG, we would all like an answer to this. Feel free to use more than 10 words, but they must all make sense and not be repeated.

[Foster Zygote]

I am now into DIY* Christianity.

DIY Christianity consists in knowing God according to reason as is propounded by the Roman Catholic Church, namely, that God can be known for certain by human reason, and then choosing what Christianity teaches in specific beliefs and observances to be of revelation from God in Jesus Christ, etc. etc. etc.

That for me is my Christianity of the free thinking man.
Free thinking. As long as it's OK with the RCC.

I think that should be a good thread for Christians who are plagued by all kinds of paradoxes with God and with institutional teachings from the Christian group they happened to have been born and grown up in, for example, the Roman Catholic Church of the Vatican loyalty.
A JREF thread in which Christians rationalize the logical inconsistencies and contradictions within their beliefs? What a brilliant idea!

Hahahahaha! [Sardonic humor]
Would you like a Persian cat and a monocal?

To live your DIY Christianity, you have got to have intellectual and volitional guts.



Okay?
OK. Address this contradiction: who was the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary?

[paximperium]

Removed response to modded-post.

[dlorde]

Is that definition acceptable to theists?Well it certainly sounds like one I don't believe in - so it should be acceptable to theists, or I'm not believing in the wrong thing...

[Lucian]

So Yrreg's definition of "god" is "maker of everything," and adding any words like "intelligent and benevolent supernatural being" constitutes unnecessary verbosity, right? What is "everything"? The material world? If so, Yrreg's god sounds like the demiurge.

Could Yrreg be a dualist who's worshiping the wrong god?