More Programming Languages

[epepke]

In Paul C's thread about programming languages, I noticed people were listing the languages they had used. Perhaps this is enjoyable. Here's a place to do it.

The guidelines: There should be three categories, "Used," "Played with," and "Implemented." In the "Used" category, put languages that you have used to write a program that is useful in and of itself outside of just learning the language. In the "Played with" category, put languages that you have just played with. In the "Implemented" category, put languages that you have either implemented from scratch or worked on an implementation of. Languages should all be Turing-complete. Separate dialects of a single language, different names for languages, or different kinds of assembly with hyphens on the same line or just use a generic term. You can edit it if you remember more.

Here are mine:

Used:

C
C++
Objective C
Java
Perl
JavaScript-JScript
PL/SQL
PL/1
BASIC-Visual BASIC-NSBasic
LISP-ALisp-Scheme-Common LISP
Snobol-Spitbol
Tutor-PAL
Mouse
COBOL
FORTRAN
Pascal
Algol 60
APL
Forth
PostScript
Assembly 68K-80xxx-Pentium-Strongarm-1802-System/360-Cyber-68HC11-8502-6800
AppleScript
HyperTalk

Played with:

Algol 68
Python
Brainf*ck
C#
RPG
Prolog
Rexx
Modula 2
Smalltalk

Implemented:

FORTH
LISP-Scheme
NSBasic
Mouse

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Used:

APL
Assemblers (various)
Basic
C
C++
DCL
Fortran
Lisp
MUMPS
Pascal
PL/I
PostScript
Prolog
RPG II
Scheme
Snobol
TAWK
TeX

Played with:

COBOL
Perl
SmallTalk

Implemented:

Assemblers (various, and the microcode for the machines)
Common Lisp
Gossip

[Peskanov]

Used;

Basics (several 8 bits, AMOS & Blitz Basic on Amiga)
Assemblers: 68k, PowerPC, ARM, MIPS, SH, x86
C, C++
Clipper
Pascal
COBOL

Played with:
ARexx
SQL
Assemblers: 6502, Z80, PDP-11
...and a bit of Forth, Caml, E, Prolog and some more I surely forget.

Implement:
No one. However I have written several in-game script mini-languages.
Also I made an interpretative MIPS emulator, and a JIT ARM emulator. I have some good basis for making a compiler.
I would like a lot to implement a language, however I still don't know which is my dream language.

Currently I am interested in looking Mozart, and D4, the language AUP mentioned in the other thread. One friend tries to sell me Forth, and other Smalltalk. However none looks nice to me.

Paul, which was the use you made of Prolog?

[epepke]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Used: TeX

I never really thought ot TeX as Turing-complete, but I suppose it it. I've used TeX, too. I like it, at least when it has decent fonts. Some of the TeX fonts are really bad.

[epepke]

Originally posted by Peskanov
No one. However I have written several in-game script mini-languages.
Also I made an interpretative MIPS emulator, and a JIT ARM emulator.

I think that counts plenty.

Currently I am interested in looking Mozart, and D4, the language AUP mentioned in the other thread. One friend tries to sell me Forth, and other Smalltalk. However none looks nice to me.

Forth as a user language doesn't have much appeal to me, either. The last time I wrote a FORTH interpreter was back in the TRS-80 days.

However, as a way to build a virtual machine for some other language, it's insanely great.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Epepke said:
I never really thought ot TeX as Turing-complete, but I suppose it it. I've used TeX, too. I like it, at least when it has decent fonts. Some of the TeX fonts are really bad.
It's Turing complete, but it is proof positive that programming by macro expansion is a real pain in the rump.

The Computer Modern fonts that come with TeX are fine for writing the book, but not all that great for the final book. I've typeset about 250 books, but not a one of them in Computer Modern.

~~ Paul

[volant]

Used:
C
C++
BASIC(Q, Visual, Dark, Blitz)
Delphi
Java
Perl

Played with:
Python
COBOL
Pascal

[evildave]

In order...

BASIC (various flavors)
6502 raw opcodes, 6502 Assembly
C
-----------------< Got paid for it...
SCI (Sierra On-Line's language)
80286/80386 Assembly
C++
BLISS-16 (One project)

Arguably, some command line interpreters and tools are also "languages"... but who cares?

Mostly C++ nowadays.

Platforms:
Ohio Scientific C1P
Apple II
Atari 8-bit
Commodore 8-bit
Arari 16-bit
-----------------< Got paid for it...
PC/DOS
PC/Windows
Nintendo 64
Playstation
PALM OS
NUON
Gameboy/GBC
Linux/UNIX

I'm probably leaving stuff out.

[ceptimus]

Used:

BASIC (many versions)
6502 Machine code
6502 Assembly
Other Assembly: Z80, 6809, 8051, 68000, 80X86
Pascal
FORTH (several flavours)
C
C++
java
VisualBasic <-- Yuk, but I get paid for it.
SQL
Various Programmable Logic Controller "languages" - yes, they are Turing-complete.

Played with:
Lisp
Algol
Cobol
Fortran
c#
BCPL
Python
Perl

I've probably forgotten some.

Implemented:
FORTH
pulsar (I made it - similar to FORTH)

I also wrote a 6502 emulator in C - I don't know if that counts.

Come to think of it, some of the more powerful programmable calculators I've owned are probably also Turing-complete: TI57, FX-502P, fx-7700G

[ZouPrime]

USED:
Python (why use anything else?)
C, C++
Java
MS BASIC
VB
COBOL
Scheme
SPARC (can't remember the version)

PLAYED:
Perl

IMPLEMENTED:
I once had to wrote a Scheme interpreter in Scheme. Don't ask why, but its probably the best way to learn any language.

[Leif Roar]

Used:

Basic
C++ (The horror! The horror!)
Perl
Java
A no. 2 pencil ("Real computer scientists don't write in anything less portable" I've been told)

Played With:

Logo
6502 Assembler (But the only thing I remeber is "nop")
Pascal
Fortran77
Ada95
Lisp (Elisp and common)
COBOL

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Zou said:
Python (why use anything else?)
So that changing eight consecutive spaces to six doesn't completely change the meaning of your program?

I wonder why they call it white space?

~~ Paul

[jayrev]

Used:

Java
Javascript
C-C++
Basic
Visual Basic :o
REXX
Bla-Bla (An IVR scripting language)
KORN/BOURNE/BASH scripting
PL/SQL
HTML
XML

Played with:
Ada 95
Eiffel
Fortran
Assembly
C#

[ZouPrime]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

So that changing eight consecutive spaces to six doesn't completely change the meaning of your program?

I wonder why they call it white space?

~~ Paul

What is your problem with indentation? Do you know ANYONE who don't use indentation in his or her code? So what's the problem with enforcing it in the syntax?

Frankly, this is a old hat. Python indentation has been an issue for me only for the first few programming sessions, because I still had old habits about when to indent and when to not. But after a few hours, it's easy, like a second nature, and now I simply don't see the point anymore in using delimiters when enforced indentation is so much easier and cleaner. Nowaday I almost never get "bad indentation error" anymore.

If you want to discuss Python, you should come up with real issues with the language. Indentation is not a problem for anyone after a few hours of experience with the syntax.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Zou said:
What is your problem with indentation? Do you know ANYONE who don't use indentation in his or her code? So what's the problem with enforcing it in the syntax?
Bah humbug. Don't you ever want the body of a loop on the same line, or to not indent a huge case construct because the lines will be too long, or to stick a break statement out at the same level as the loop header for emphasis? I do. But that's not my biggest complaint. My biggest complaint is that the presence or absence of something invisible should not affect the semantics of a program. That's, like, woo-woo programming.

If you want to discuss Python, you should come up with real issues with the language. Indentation is not a problem for anyone after a few hours of experience with the syntax.
Yes, I'm sure it's not. If I can get use to Lisp's parentheses, I'm sure I can get used to Python. But that doesn't make it right. There are moral issues here! :D

But anyway, it seems like a great language otherwise.

~~ Paul

[ZouPrime]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
[B]
Bah humbug. Don't you ever want the body of a loop on the same line, or to not indent a huge case construct because the lines will be too long, or to stick a break statement out at the same level as the loop header for emphasis? I do. But that's not my biggest complaint. My biggest complaint is that the presence or absence of something invisible should not affect the semantics of a program. That's, like, woo-woo programming.


Yes, there are some instances where having "hard" delimiters such as {} and ; help, but honestly, if you can't put it as a one-liner use two lines. I don't think the code will be significantly "worse" because of that.

Whitespaces are not invisible. I understand that 99% of languages consider them useless and just strip them at compilation time, but it's just a question of habit. After a while, respecting indentation become natural.


Yes, I'm sure it's not. If I can get use to Lisp's parentheses, I'm sure I can get used to Python. But that doesn't make it right. There are moral issues here! :D


I had the same reaction at first, because it reminded me so much of COBOL. I see that you "played" with it, so you must had experienced what we used to call "columns hell".


But anyway, it seems like a great language otherwise.


You know, my "why use anything else" comment was pure flamebait ;-) I don't believe in language crusades either.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Hey, and I took it like a moth to a flamebait!

~~ Paul

[peptoabysmal]

Used:

PERL (perfectly eclectic rubbish lister)
bash shell scripting / tsch scripting
make / makefile
emacs & other unixisms: (awk, sed, grep and other unpronounceable items)
GNU C/C++ (gcc)

Played With:
SmallTalk
Delphi
Pascal
lisp
VC++
Borland's C/C++ Builder
C#
PHP
C/C++ on Mac OS X

Implemented:
C/C++ (created Macintosh 7,8 & 9 graphics utilities, before I started getting paid to make web apps)
Java
JavaScript
HTML
SQL
Oracle PL/SQL
VisualBasic (on PC and on PDA)
ColdFusion

[evildave]

Bah! Why put your program in columns when you can type it all in one 600,000 character line?

White space is for eating!

[LW]

Originally posted by evildave

White space is for eating!

No, whitespace (http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/) is for programming.

[evildave]

GAAAH!

Reminds me of Shakespear. Only less verbose.

http://shakespearelang.sourceforge.net/
http://shakespearelang.sourceforge.net/report/shakespeare/#SECTION00040000000000000000
http://people.csa.iisc.ernet.in/sreejith/frontends/spl/

Shakespeare Programming Language

SPL was created by Karl Hasselstrom and Jon Aslund. It is a small beautiful language, which resembles the Shakespearian plays. The programs in SPL are divided into acts and scenes, so that the basic operations are performed as dialogues between characters. It avoids fanciful control structures and works perfectly with the basic ones. According to the Authors, the language has the expressiveness of BASIC and the user friendliness of assembly language.

Prime Number Computation in Copenhagen.

Romeo, a young man of Verona.
Juliet, a young woman.
Hamlet, a temporary variable from Denmark.
The Ghost, a limiting factor (and by a remarkable coincidence also
Hamlet's father).


Act I: Interview with the other side.

Scene I: At the last hour before dawn.

[Enter the Ghost and Juliet]

The Ghost:
You pretty little warm thing! Thou art as prompt as the difference
between the square of thyself and your golden hair. Speak your mind.

Juliet:
Listen to your heart!

[Exit the Ghost]

[Enter Romeo]

Juliet:
Thou art as sweet as a sunny summer's day!


Act II: Determining divisibility.

Scene I: A private conversation.

Juliet:
Art thou more cunning than the Ghost?

Romeo:
If so, let us proceed to scene V.

[Exit Romeo]

[Enter Hamlet]

Juliet:
You are as villainous as the square root of Romeo!

Hamlet:
You are as lovely as a red rose.

Scene II: Questions and the consequences thereof.

Juliet:
Am I better than you?

Hamlet:
If so, let us proceed to scene III.

Juliet:
Is the remainder of the quotient between Romeo and me as good as
nothing?

Hamlet:
If so, let us proceed to scene IV.
Thou art as bold as the sum of thyself and a roman.

Juliet:
Let us return to scene II.

Scene III: Romeo must die!

[Exit Hamlet]

[Enter Romeo]

Juliet:
Open your heart.

[Exit Juliet]

[Enter Hamlet]

Romeo:
Thou art as rotten as the difference between nothing and the sum of a
snotty stinking half-witted hog and a small toad!
Speak your mind!

[Exit Romeo]

[Enter Juliet]

Scene IV: One small dog at a time.

[Exit Hamlet]

[Enter Romeo]

Juliet:
Thou art as handsome as the sum of thyself and my chihuahua!
Let us return to scene I.

Scene V: Fin.

[Exeunt]

[epepke]

It seems that the inventors of Shakespear forgot Shakespeare's admonition about programming:

"Go to, go to, thou art a foolish fellow."