Why do truthers always think they've won?

[Oscar]

Why do truthers always think they've won, even when it's blatantly obvious they've been swept aside with logic, knowledge and expertise.

This first came to my attention about a year back when Gravy said he would no longer post. I visited a truther site at the time and they were all slapping each other on the back saying how debunkers had been getting a pasting and this was the result.

I've never seen a truther win an argument about 9/11 here or anywhere else. Truthers resort to troll tactics here, largely, and on their own boards ban anyone with a contrary view as soon as they spot them. It's just...well, I don't get it.

This is only a little personal rant of a thread, but any views that enlighten me would be welcomed.

[Dog Town]

Why do truthers always think they've won?

Tepid IQ?

[JoeyDonuts]

Just goes to show you how little interest in the truth they actually have.

They're more concerned with being 'right.'

[TexasJack]

Because the internet is the only place they can claim victory, they know if they present their evidence outside the internet, they get shot down. I've asked the CIT morons if they ever have attempted to take their findings to the proper authorities, they just say yes, but...

[The Platypus]

Why do truthers always think they've won, even when it's blatantly obvious they've been swept aside with logic, knowledge and expertise.

This first came to my attention about a year back when Gravy said he would no longer post. I visited a truther site at the time and they were all slapping each other on the back saying how debunkers had been getting a pasting and this was the result.

I've never seen a truther win an argument about 9/11 here or anywhere else. Truthers resort to troll tactics here, largely, and on their own boards ban anyone with a contrary view as soon as they spot them. It's just...well, I don't get it.

This is only a little personal rant of a thread, but any views that enlighten me would be welcomed.

When you realize that you are dealing with people that have a mentality that seems to be stuck at a childish level, then their behaviors and tactics all become obvious and quite predictable.

[Z]

"I got you! I got you! I hit you with my Fact-Laser!"

"Nuh-uhh!! I got a Twoofer Shield! I'm industrible!"

[Bobert]

Welcome to the CULT that is 9-11 truth

[Caustic Logic]

"I got you! I got you! I hit you with my Fact-Laser!"

"Nuh-uhh!! I got a Twoofer Shield! I'm industrible!"

I love that last word. :)

Hint: There's no proof any of these people actually believe the things they say. In case that helps with the neuro-psychological analyses to follow from this profound question.

[eromitlab]

If a truther acts like they won, and no one challenges it, then they won. And if someone challenges it, it's because they're government ops trying to save face and they win. This is made easier by congregating in the dark, dusty corners of the internet where truthers reign supreme on their little boards and blogs where everything can be one-sided for twoof.

A similar principle is at work when truthers think that because they have more websites dedicated to teh twoof, or more people with degrees and credentials on a list published on one of those many sites, they win. Quantity over quality.

[MikeW]

It's all down to your point of view.

If a truther comes here, argues the same point over and over and over and over again, and ignores or handwaves away contrary evidence, then you might say they've lost. But to them, they've won, because:

a) they've managed to get their point of view heard here (truthers value the "it's for the lurkers" argument too), and
b) no-one has managed to persuade them they were wrong in anything substantial, and
c) maybe they created a lot of fuss or debate for minimum effort, and
d) they were seriously outnumbered in their thread, so get to feel like brave truth warriors for "bringing the battle here" in the first place.

Of course the reasons might vary. Others could have problems evaluating evidence or arguments (which is why they're a truther in the first place). Still more are just trolls: they want to goad people into responding, and know they can do this by making statements that are clearly untrue, while accusing others of doing what they're doing. And it's such a successful tactic that arguably, if they want to come here, annoy people and get some of them banned, then maybe they do win occasionally, even if it's really got nothing at all to do with 9/11 truth any more.

[kookbreaker]

Just goes to show you how little interest in the truth they actually have.

They're more concerned with being 'right.'

Its not about them being right. For them, it is all about the pwnage. They don't care if everything they spouted was a load of dreck, they just want to take something you say and try to turn it into some kind of 'win' for them.

[stateofgrace]

It as already been pointed out but is worth repeating. It is no longer about the truth; it is now about getting one over on the nasty JREFers. It is all about stating anything, provoking a response and all the time smugly declaring victory.

Not one of them as the nerve to come out a say categorically what they believe to have happened. Not one as the nerve to put forward an alternative narrative of any kind. It is all about finding the smallest anomaly they can in what they collectively call the " official story" and blowing it up to the be the most important discovery ever. All the while bleating on and on about how the truth is unstoppable, how they are winning hands down and any day, any moment the truth wall come flooding out and they will finally be vindicated for being the laughing stock for years. It hasn’t occurred to them that the entire world as moved on, their demon (Bush) as gone and not a single paranoid prediction any of them as ever made as ever or will ever come to pass.

Some of them actually view the very fact that this sub forum and the members here continue to smack them down with alarming regularity as a form of victory. In their eyes any form of response is a form of validation, that somebody is actually still taking notice of them is in itself a victory. The reality, although I cannot speak for everybody, is that most people here dislike stupid and choose to confront it when ever it comes along.

Of course stupid is too stupid to see this.

[orphia nay]

The perfect response to twoofers like this (most of them) is something Dr Adequate said.

(From memory): Do you find that pretending that you're right brings you the same satisfaction as being right, or has it been so long since you were right that you've forgotten the difference?

[rikzilla]

OT but...gee...whatever happened to the Ninja Wave? :)

-z


BTW...I haven't been here in a while...can ya tell?

[orphia nay]

OT but...gee...whatever happened to the Ninja Wave? :)

-z


BTW...I haven't been here in a while...can ya tell?

:cheerleader2 Great to see you again, rikzilla! Glad your super-secret duties have ended and you can participate in the less-classified psy-ops now.

The Ninja Wave? Ah, good days, good days. But I guess, like myself, others got bored of being repeatedly banned for speaking logically. Besides, the Loose Change Forum is dead. :)

[rikzilla]

:cheerleader2 Great to see you again, rikzilla! Glad your super-secret duties have ended and you can participate in the less-classified psy-ops now.

The Ninja Wave? Ah, good days, good days. But I guess, like myself, others got bored of being repeatedly banned for speaking logically. Besides, the Loose Change Forum is dead. :)


LOL! :) Great to see you too Orphia! Yeah I figured Loose Change would have been dead by now. The troofers left now are just pathetic and splintered into smaller and smaller groups of the paranoid. One such "friended" me on Facebook so he and his little buddies could gang up on me I guess. He ended up un-friending me after I posted Gravy's controlled demo video to his page. :D It was fun while it lasted, but it only lasted a week.

-z

[Blender Head]

Maybe some of the TLA winners could more eloquently phrase this, but I've begun to consider Trutherists as the "9/11 MEMEMEMEMEME" Movement.

[NWO Sentryman]

because, think of it this way. They cannot bear to think that they have ever lost a debate because they only stay within their own circiles of friends.

they never expand otuside of those circles, so they think they have an understanding of the world around them.

They are cowardly because they do not take that step into the outside world. They think they have total understanding of the world, so they cannot bear the possibly of being wrong. It is because of this uncertainty around them that they do not branch out to other people.

It is because of their lack of understanding outside their circles that they cannot comprehend that there are other reasons behind everything.

Like the NWO Conspiracies, they just want to feel as though the universe is controlled, benignly or otherwise.

[Stacko]

Why do truthers always think they've won, even when it's blatantly obvious they've been swept aside with logic, knowledge and expertise.

[ZeroPunctuation]Because it's easier to expect the fabric of reality to change than to admit that they were wrong[/ZP]

[gc051360]

They do always win.

By internet standards that is.

In internet debates it's not about who makes the best argument, or who has the facts on their side. It's about who can be more annoying. They win.

They also outlast their opponents, because eventually everyone gives up. It's like talking to a brick wall. When you give up through boredom/annoyance, they declare victory.

And it's not even that they think they're right. I believe their sole purpose as a movement is to try and "win" internet arguments.

[leftysergeant]

Guys? You're all over-complicating this thing. It comes down to one simple fact.

Twoofers are batcrap crazy.

[FineWine]

It's all down to your point of view.

If a truther comes here, argues the same point over and over and over and over again, and ignores or handwaves away contrary evidence, then you might say they've lost. But to them, they've won, because:

a) they've managed to get their point of view heard here (truthers value the "it's for the lurkers" argument too), and
b) no-one has managed to persuade them they were wrong in anything substantial, and
c) maybe they created a lot of fuss or debate for minimum effort, and
d) they were seriously outnumbered in their thread, so get to feel like brave truth warriors for "bringing the battle here" in the first place.

Of course the reasons might vary. Others could have problems evaluating evidence or arguments (which is why they're a truther in the first place). Still more are just trolls: they want to goad people into responding, and know they can do this by making statements that are clearly untrue, while accusing others of doing what they're doing. And it's such a successful tactic that arguably, if they want to come here, annoy people and get some of them banned, then maybe they do win occasionally, even if it's really got nothing at all to do with 9/11 truth any more.


"Others could have problems evaluating evidence or arguments (which is why they're a truther in the first place)."

An elegant and concise summary! If "truthers" think they've ever won a debate--ANY debate--then they could tell us what part of the mainstream account of the attacks of 9/11 we now know to be false. In reality, they have never produced a shred of evidence for their insane myths, and they have refuted nothing. There isn't a single claim the "truthers" make that can stand any scrutiny.

[sylvan8798]

Since many (most? all?) truthers are clearly delusional, it is totally in keeping that they delusionally believe themselves to have "won" arguments with non-truthers. When you consider some of the other things they claim to believe (nukes in the basement, WTC built for destruction, concrete core, no truss theory, northside flyover, no planes, dustification of steel, space beams, etc. etc.) it seems rather mild by comparison to believe they have won some internet board exchange.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

What could make the twoofers think that they've won?

Neither Dick Cheney nor Larry Silverstein have been arrested, tried or convicted. Neither has anyone else. US forces have not withdrawn from Iraq or Afghanistan. No jews have been rounded up, nor has Auschwitz been reopened. They haven't even gotten their new investigation.

In fact, they even admit that "THEY" have been able to do whatever the hell they want without opposition. Every time something happens that their pet theories failed to predict, they cover their asses by declaring the events to be a part of the NWOs clever plan.

Unfortunately, in trying to avoid making themselves look retarded, they admit that the NWO is still doing stuff just to @#$% with the publics heads.

[CurtC]

Guys? You're all over-complicating this thing. It comes down to one simple fact.

Twoofers are batcrap crazy.

There's more to it. People who are poor at critical thinking are, for the same reason, poor at evaluating how they have done.

[dudalb]

It's impossible to look at the twoofers claims of victory after having their heads handed to them on a platter without the Black Knight in Monty Python And The Holy Grail popping into your head.

[Josarhus]

It's impossible to look at the twoofers claims of victory after having their heads handed to them on a platter without the Black Knight in Monty Python And The Holy Grail popping into your head.

It's just a flesh wound! :D

[parky76]

Why do truthers always think they've won, .

cause along with paranoid and erratic, they are also overtly delusional.

crazy people ALWAYS think they are right...even when everyone else knows they are batguano loony.

[twinstead]

crazy people ALWAYS think they are right...even when everyone else knows they are batguano loony.

One of the reasons it's so frustrating debating truthers. They can "own" you on a moment's notice and skip off into the sunset smug and self-righteous, no matter HOW the debate is actually going.

[r2d2m2]

Why do truthers always think they've won, even when it's blatantly obvious they've been swept aside with logic, knowledge and expertise.

This first came to my attention about a year back when Gravy said he would no longer post. I visited a truther site at the time and they were all slapping each other on the back saying how debunkers had been getting a pasting and this was the result.

I've never seen a truther win an argument about 9/11 here or anywhere else. Truthers resort to troll tactics here, largely, and on their own boards ban anyone with a contrary view as soon as they spot them. It's just...well, I don't get it.

This is only a little personal rant of a thread, but any views that enlighten me would be welcomed.


Always? Always always? Last time I checked loosechange911.com was still down. It has been like that (maintenance mode) for a while now. It may just be a regroup but my feelings detect that someone has thrown in the towel.

Are there any particularly entrenched targets you would like to see with their hands up?

:duck:

[Oscar]

r2d2m2:

Always? Always always? Last time I checked loosechange911.com was still down. It has been like that (maintenance mode) for a while now. It may just be a regroup but my feelings detect that someone has thrown in the towel.

Are there any particularly entrenched targets you would like to see with their hands up?

Well, um, I was more specifically targeting truthers here than elsewhere, the other sites being slightly closer in my opinion to asylums than forums, but we could start with Heiwa for a start. Then we could add Homeland Insurgency, Bill and a few other less frequent posters who are all equally culpable.

Do I want to see them all with their hands up? Not really. Admitting themselves that they were all wrong would end this part of the forum. I know the clever guys here argue that what is really beneficial is investigating what happened with genuine expertise, and I respect that, don't get me wrong, but without the persistent truthers displaying their nuttiness it wouldn't quite be the same.

[sylvan8798]

Always? Always always? Last time I checked loosechange911.com was still down. It has been like that (maintenance mode) for a while now. It may just be a regroup but my feelings detect that someone has thrown in the towel.

Are there any particularly entrenched targets you would like to see with their hands up?

:duck:

lol. Stundie?

[Aitch]

One thing I have noticed is that this board, being fairly moderated, doesn't get the psychopathic end of the troofer movement as much as other, less moderated, boards.

For example, this thread (http://politicstalk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@599.TECBghxbDIe@.77609b83/0) on GUT. After getting their arses handed to them, the troofers tend to violent abuse and name calling - Riccotelaly is a good example of this. And once RhinelandCityLimits joins in, the loon-factor goes up exponentially.

[T.A.M.]

One thing I have noticed is that this board, being fairly moderated, doesn't get the psychopathic end of the troofer movement as much as other, less moderated, boards.

For example, this thread (http://politicstalk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@599.TECBghxbDIe@.77609b83/0) on GUT. After getting their arses handed to them, the troofers tend to violent abuse and name calling - Riccotelaly is a good example of this. And once RhinelandCityLimits joins in, the loon-factor goes up exponentially.

yup. It is the major reason I gave up all other forums/areas. Here, when things descend beyond the civil, the posts are moved to AAH, and in some cases people are held accountable for their posts with suspensions or worse.

Of course, I tend to like rules, and regulations, as it keeps things (and the world) civil. Others like anarchy.

TAM:)

[Luntoc]

I always get constantly told on youtube that the debunkers have lost and they have nothing on the "truth" movement and those responsible will be dealt with real soon. But its what they have been telling me since 2006 and three years later I've yet to see anyone in the Bush administration or anyone else in the government held responsible, arrested, impeached anything something to clarify what they have been telling us and to this very day nothing. They will be remembered in the same class as holocaust and moon landing deniers.

[~enigma~]

They will be remembered in the same class as holocaust and moon landing deniers.
Actually if some posters here stop dredging them up they will go down as a black mark in American history but other than that I don't even think they will be remembered as anything but the first CT that was born, spread, lived and died solely on the internet.

[deep]

Actually if some posters here stop dredging them up they will go down as a black mark in American history but other than that I don't even think they will be remembered as anything but the first CT that was born, spread, lived and died solely on the internet.


Great prediction, but numerous books have been written about 9/11 conspiracy theories. Many of them are available at various brick & mortar bookstores.

[~enigma~]

Great prediction, but numerous books have been written about 9/11 conspiracy theories. Many of them are available at various brick & mortar bookstores.
Yes....but did you read that the CT was born and spread through the internet or like all good members of the TM subrace did you ignore that to post your inane drivel?

[newton3376]

Great prediction, but numerous books have been written about 9/11 conspiracy theories. Many of them are available at various brick & mortar bookstores.

As long as they are sold under "fiction" I don't see a problem here....

[~enigma~]

As long as they are sold under "fiction" I don't see a problem here....
Kinda funny but all the 9/11 CT crap out here is in the section on alternate religion.

[deep]

Yes....but did you read that the CT was born and spread through the internet or like all good members of the TM subrace did you ignore that to post your inane drivel?


You said it would be remembered as the first CT to be born, spread, lived, and died solely through the Internet.

[~enigma~]

You said it would be remembered as the first CT to be born, spread, lived, and died solely through the Internet.
Yes...do books being available negate that? Same with DVDS? You are a good little woo aren't you? Go try to twist someone elses posts which is the ultimate goal of the entire TM subrace.

[beachnut]

Why do truthers always think they've won, ...
...
I've never seen a truther win an argument about 9/11 here or anywhere ...
They think they won because the rate their moronic opinions above facts, evidence, and rational logical thinking.

[BigAl]

Great prediction, but numerous books have been written about 9/11 conspiracy theories. Many of them are available at various brick & mortar bookstores.

The archives of the newspapers in Washington D.C. and NYC are full of reports of the events on 9/11 and the days and months afterwords. What these papers published each day matched what the participants and eyewitnesses saw and did as the events happened. These stories show the claims of the Truth Movement to be silly.

And there are dozens of books written by eyewitnesses to 9/11 that show the Twoofer claims to be the crap they are. Here are some of them. Yes. I've read all of them and as an eyewitness to some of what happened at WTC, they tell the truth when I can say that, first-hand.



Firefight: Inside the Battle to Save the Pentagon on 9/11_
150 interviews with participants and eye-witnesses

Report From Grounds Zero by Dennis Smith.

Nine Months at Ground Zero By Stout, Vitchers, & Gray

AFTERMATH: World Trade Center Archive By Joel Meyerowitz
http://www.joelmeyerowitz.com/photography/book_aftermath.asp
(images on web site)

The Naudet FDNY Film

A nation challenged : a visual history of 9/11 and its aftermath By Callaway

Watching The world change; The Stories behind the images of 9/11 By David Friend

102 Minutes by Dwyer & Flynn

Touching History: The Untold Story of the Drama That Unfolded
in the Skies Over America on 9/11, by Spencer

[deep]

Yes...do books being available negate that? Same with DVDS? You are a good little woo aren't you? Go try to twist someone elses posts which is the ultimate goal of the entire TM subrace.


If person A and person B have communicated with one another solely over the Internet, does that mean it's possible that they met for coffee last week at the local Starbucks?

Seriously, how hard is it to say oops, I made a mistake, it should have been 'mostly' instead of 'solely'?

[Z]

I always get constantly told on youtube that the debunkers have lost and they have nothing on the "truth" movement and those responsible will be dealt with real soon. But its what they have been telling me since 2006 and three years later I've yet to see anyone in the Bush administration or anyone else in the government held responsible, arrested, impeached anything something to clarify what they have been telling us and to this very day nothing. They will be remembered in the same class as holocaust and moon landing deniers.

I wonder if they'll keep saying 'real soon' 2000 years from now, like another theory that people keep expecting to happen 'real soon'.

[TheDaver]

I wonder if they'll keep saying 'real soon' 2000 years from now, like another theory that people keep expecting to happen 'real soon'.
Demanding that those responsible be held accountable when they’ve been dead and buried for generations… that would be pretty funny.

[r2d2m2]

Well, um, I was more specifically targeting truthers here than elsewhere, the other sites being slightly closer in my opinion to asylums than forums, but we could start with Heiwa for a start. Then we could add Homeland Insurgency, Bill and a few other less frequent posters who are all equally culpable.

Do I want to see them all with their hands up? Not really. Admitting themselves that they were all wrong would end this part of the forum. I know the clever guys here argue that what is really beneficial is investigating what happened with genuine expertise, and I respect that, don't get me wrong, but without the persistent truthers displaying their nuttiness it wouldn't quite be the same.


I have some bad news for you... This religion shalt lack longevity.

Don't worry though. I'll get you a puppy instead.

[r2d2m2]

lol. Stundie?


Who is this Stundie? I heard he can't spell. That's all I know.

[SmartyPants]

There's more to it. People who are poor at critical thinking are, for the same reason, poor at evaluating how they have done.

Bingo.

If you're unaware of why logic and evidence work, then using logic and evidence likely won't work, which means there's really nothing that'll work.

[psikeyhackr]

Bingo.

If you're unaware of why logic and evidence work, then using logic and evidence likely won't work, which means there's really nothing that'll work.
.
Maybe further study in the relationship between physics and what some people claim is logic is required. Some people think Aristotelean crap is logic.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/25457/25457-h/25457-h.html

Mass A hits mass B. What do you need to know to analyze the possible results.

You need to know the details of both masses. More than 2500 exterior wall panels on each tower and we know there were 12 different types. But we aren't told the quantities and weights of each type.

And people claiming to be LOGICAL are not demanding the information.

ROFLMAO

psik

[FineWine]

.
Maybe further study in the relationship between physics and what some people claim is logic is required. Some people think Aristotelean crap is logic.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/25457/25457-h/25457-h.html

Mass A hits mass B. What do you need to know to analyze the possible results.

You need to know the details of both masses. More than 2500 exterior wall panels on each tower and we know there were 12 different types. But we aren't told the quantities and weights of each type.

And people claiming to be LOGICAL are not demanding the information.

ROFLMAO

psik


You still labor under the delusion that your uncomprehending giggling impresses people vastly smarter than you, people who know much more than you do. Explain to the simulation teams at Berkeley and Purdue why your inability to find the insignificant information you pretend to want invalidates their work. Be sure to tell them what you know that they don't, and explain how you learned it.

Yes, I am really ROTFLMAO