Tolerance on Campus

[Tony]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105095,00.html ...full article (scroll down)



The first of a series of Diversity Lectures held at the University of Louisville in Kentucky brought the notoriously racist Sister Souljah to campus at a cost of more than $10,000, reports the Louisville Courier-Journal.

The speech, in which Ms. Souljah was reported to have berated white people for more than two hours, was paid for with a $50,000 contribution by Bank One. The bank donated the money as penance after some of its employees were caught handing out racist T-shirts on campus.

Her speech was part of an effort to bring to campus "thought-provoking speakers that would really give us some opportunity to engage in a dialogue on some difficult issues related to race and race relations," said Mordean Taylor-Archer, the school’s vice provost for diversity and equal opportunity.


Sister Souljah is famous for advocating, after the Los Angeles race riots several years ago, "war" against white people, including a special week set aside each year to kill white people. She says unapologetically that she wants what’s best for "her" people, and that "if my survival means your total destruction, then so be it."

And so the double standard prevails.

[Graham]

Originally posted by Tony
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105095,00.html ...full article (scroll down)


And so the double standard prevails.

I'd never heard of this Souljah person before - is she well known?

Regardless, there's usually two sides to every story:

For instance?

For instance, many people believe the speaker advocated killing white people in the U of L speech. She did not. That suggestion comes from statements quoted in a 1992 Washington Post article in which Souljah was attempting to explain the conditions that lead to the Los Angeles riots. Presidential candidate Bill Clinton criticized her statements as inflamatory, and she indicated that they were taken out of context. A Louisville Cardinal columnist wrote about these remarks in a column, and many people believed that Souljah made comments like this at U of L. Again, she did not.

University of Louisville Website (http://www.louisville.edu/update/)

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Graham


I'd never heard of this Souljah person before - is she well known?

Regardless, there's usually two sides to every story:



University of Louisville Website (http://www.louisville.edu/update/)

And generally speaking, you don't get both sides from Fox News.

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by Tony
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105095,00.html ...full article (scroll down)

And so the double standard prevails.

Not really, its just a more subtle type of racism.

The media tends to focus on the extremist activists more than the moderate ones, as this reinforces the black stereotype of the "brute". We have extremist, racist whites all over the country, but its a rare day when I see them covered in the news. Least of all by Fox!

Double standard, indeed. :rolleyes:

[Tony]

Originally posted by Graham


I'd never heard of this Souljah person before - is she well known?


This is the first I've heard of her.

Regardless, there's usually two sides to every story:
University of Louisville Website (http://www.louisville.edu/update/)

Thanks for taking the time to research this, I'll take a look at it.


Edit: After looking at this, it seems more like the University's damage control. The only defense of this woman seems to be that the quotes were "taken out of context."

[Tony]

Originally posted by EvilYeti


We have extremist, racist whites all over the country, but its a rare day when I see them covered in the news.

Because the extremist whites don’t speak at universities or carry weight with the general white population. Rightfully so, they are marginalized.

[Graham]

Originally posted by Tony


This is the first I've heard of her.



Thanks for taking the time to research this, I'll take a look at it.

Just a little OT, this quote from the university made me laugh:

Why hasn't the university responded to the talk show host to set the record straight?

Two representatives of the university attempted to call the talk show host, who made demeaning remarks to one of them and hung up on both of them

:D

[Skeptic]

We have extremist, racist whites all over the country, but its a rare day when I see them covered in the news.

Then again, they usually don't get invited to give lectures to the students in universities, either.

The news item isn't that she's a racist; the news is that her racism is celebrated and embraced in the name of "diversity" and "tolerance".

If a KKK leader were invited to give a commencement speech, that, too, would be news, don't you think?

[American]

I'm sure she has a growing FBI file. I wouldn't worry, she'll be in the slammer if she keeps it up, like they did to Matt Hale (http://crime.about.com/library/blfiles/bl-matthaletrial.htm).

[Tony]

Originally posted by American
I'm sure she has a growing FBI file. I wouldn't worry, she'll be in the slammer if she keeps it up, like they did to Matt Hale (http://crime.about.com/library/blfiles/bl-matthaletrial.htm).

So you advocate denying someone free speech and a fair trial?

I don’t care how disgusting someone's views are, they don’t deserve to be thrown in jail on trumped up charges.

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by Skeptic

The news item isn't that she's a racist; the news is that her racism is celebrated and embraced in the name of "diversity" and "tolerance".


And perhaps giving her a pulpit in the first place is racist? I'm sure the university could have chosen a more moderate speaker, I wonder why they chose a hate monger instead?

Again, this is an example of the subtle racism that still pervades American culture.

[Tony]

Originally posted by EvilYeti


I'm sure the university could have chosen a more moderate speaker, I wonder why they chose a hate monger instead?



Because black on white racism is PC.

[Skeptic]

And perhaps giving her a pulpit in the first place is racist? I'm sure the university could have chosen a more moderate speaker, I wonder why they chose a hate monger instead?

Because when it's a black person who wants white people killed, it isn't a hate monger.

It's "a radical speaker with controvertial views about race relations who stongly opposes the white hegamony from her independent cultural perspective".

[BillyTK]

I've heard of Sistah Souljah (she runs the charity arm of P Diddy's business empire) but nothing by her. Any links to evidence to support the accusation that she is racist would be appreciated! :)

[American]

Originally posted by Tony

So you advocate denying someone free speech and a fair trial?

I don’t care how disgusting someone's views are, they don’t deserve to be thrown in jail on trumped up charges.


Not to go tangent, but I advocate a happy reality over an ideal system that clearly doesn't work. If things work out with good people on top and the scum dead or in jail, that's a good situation.

Now don't stray off topic... yes there's a double standard, but that fact itself can work in our favor as evidenced by this thought-provoking topic. (I like to think positive in life...)

[daenku32]

Is there any actualy proof that she is a racist? Or you just going by an article posted on Faux news?

[Tony]

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/02/kennedy.htm 3rd paragraph down

http://www.louisvillecardinal.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/11/11/3fb09286e89e7

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Tony
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/02/kennedy.htm 3rd paragraph down

http://www.louisvillecardinal.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/11/11/3fb09286e89e7
Thanks, but the first link is hearsay. The second link is ace though:
Souljah became famous in 1992 after being criticized by then-presidential candidate Bill Clinton for her comments concerning the L.A. riots. [...] She went on to say, "if black people kill black people every day, why not have a week and kill white people?"
Hmmm, that's kind of different to "advocating [...] 'war' against white people, including a special week set aside each year to kill white people" according to FoxNews. So apart from some rather, um... selective quotes, is there any evidence that Sistah Souljah is a racist?

[Tony]

Originally posted by BillyTK

So apart from some rather, um... selective quotes, is there any evidence that Sistah Souljah is a racist?

bwaahahahahhaha, you and your PC posse use selective quotes which are a lot less inflammatory to prove my "racism" and bigotry". Hypocrite.


Here's a nice quote from the Sistah:


"I am African first." she expounds. "I am black first. I want what's good for me and my people first. And if my survival means your total destruction, then so be it."


Now, if I or someone else said:

"I am white first, I want what's good for me and my people first. And if my survival means your total destruction, then so be it"

What would you think?

[Dancing David]

Not exactly a good choice for a diversity spreaker, i agree that she is similar to bring in the Klan or the Nation to speak on the subject.

I feel she did it to boost her dead career in hip-hop, that and ten thousand dollars to say wharever you want isn't bad. bad publicity will play well at home i am sure.

I have been to many a diversity training and the like, most of them are so dull that they would make you cry, syhe just cuts to the chase and makes you cry outright.

At least she didn't mention reparations,

who wants to represent the underrepresented angry white male?

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Tony


bwaahahahahhaha, you are your PC posse use selective quotes that are a lot less inflammatory to prove my "racism" and bigotry". Hypocrite.
I knew my comments would set a few knees a-jerking. How quickly you resort to ad homs and insults. Like I said here (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870194063#post1870192806), if you want to play name-calling, then I'm happy to play along; you gave me plenty of ammunition (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30458&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post1870186060) which I held off using to show good faith.

So what's inflammatory? According to FoxNews, she advocates war against white people, and a special week for killing white people. When we actually read her quotes in context, we discover she's not actually advocating any such thing, she's asking a rhetorical question in the context of the LA riots. Angry? Yes. Black humoured? Intensely; near-the-knuckle, even. But racist? Hmmm... it's interesting how the media outlets get upset by her suggestion of, "why not have a week and kill white people", but pass over her remark about black people killing black people everyday without comment. One can only assume that the idea of black people killing each other is completely acceptable and unremarkable. So who is the racist?

Here's a nice quote from the Sistah:
:rolleyes: It's a poem. Here's the rest of it:
You built this wicked system

They say two wrongs don't make a right

But it damn sure makes things even

The Hate That Hate Produced
Full poem here (http://freespace.virgin.net/mickey.nold/poetry.htm).

Now, if I or someone else said:

"I am white first, I want what's good for me and my people first. And if my survival means your total destruction, then so be it"

What would you think?
I'd laugh my head off; you'd have to be incredibly naive or incredibly ignorant to suggest with any sincerity that Sista Souljah's poem and your version are equivalent. Especially in light of the rest of the poem. But y'know, whatever floats your boat, right? Free speech and all that... :)

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Dancing David
Not exactly a good choice for a diversity spreaker, i agree that she is similar to bring in the Klan or the Nation to speak on the subject.

I feel she did it to boost her dead career in hip-hop, that and ten thousand dollars to say wharever you want isn't bad. bad publicity will play well at home i am sure.
She dumped the hip hop career years ago, apparently; she's now an author, public speaker and charity worker.

I have been to many a diversity training and the like, most of them are so dull that they would make you cry,
Agree with you on that one! ;) Last one I attended, I wished someone like Sistah Souljah would've come and shaken things up a little!
who wants to represent the underrepresented angry white male?
He's over-represented, everywhere; he's even got his own dedicated news outlets, for heaven's sake!

[Tony]

Originally posted by BillyTK

you gave me plenty of ammunition (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30458&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post1870186060) which I held off using to show good faith.



I didnt give any ammo to anyone who isnt a non-thinking PC monger.

So what's inflammatory? According to FoxNews, she advocates war against white people, and a special week for killing white people. When we actually read her quotes in context, we discover she's not actually advocating any such thing, she's asking a rhetorical question in the context of the LA riots. Angry? Yes. Black humoured? Intensely; near-the-knuckle, even. But racist?

Yep, the typical double standard.

One can only assume that the idea of black people killing each other is completely acceptable and unremarkable.

You can.

So who is the racist?

You? You just said you could assume that the idea of black people killing each other is completely acceptable. A thinking person would realize that black on black crime is an epidemic and happens much to often to be covered in the news. Old news doesnt sell newspapers.


:rolleyes: It's a poem. Here's the rest of it:

Full poem here (http://freespace.virgin.net/mickey.nold/poetry.htm).


I'd laugh my head off; you'd have to be incredibly naive or incredibly ignorant to suggest with any sincerity that Sista Souljah's poem and your version are equivalent. Especially in light of the rest of the poem.

More of the double standard. It’s sad, racism and hate speech is ok for one group as long as it’s tied to a bunch of pseudo-intellectual BS, but it's completely unacceptable for other groups.

But y'know, whatever floats your boat, right? Free speech and all that... :)

Exactly.

[JAR]

Originally posted by BillyTK
So apart from some rather, um... selective quotes, is there any evidence that Sistah Souljah is a racist?
You stupid limey bast@rd! What you just said is so stupid, it's not even worth arguing with.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Tony
I didnt give any ammo to anyone who isnt a non-thinking PC monger.
There you go again with the ad homs, and you wonder why people are so hostile to you. Did you check the link? If you did, you'd know it wasn't a pc issue; it was a basic comprehension issue. That thing where you thought I'd attributed a quote to you, despite me pointing out on a number of occassions I hadn't?

Yep, the typical double standard.
I'm glad you spotted that. It is interesting how certain media outlets will take just enough of a quote to justify their claims, regardless of the context, which is inherently dishonest. Thank god we're skeptics, eh?

You can.

You? You just said you could assume that the idea of black people killing each other is completely acceptable. A thinking person would realize that black on black crime is an epidemic and happens much to often to be covered in the news. Old news doesnt sell newspapers.
And talking of selective quoting, what I actually said was:
Hmmm... it's interesting how the media outlets get upset by her suggestion of, "why not have a week and kill white people", but pass over her remark about black people killing black people everyday without comment. One can only assume that the idea of black people killing each other is completely acceptable and unremarkable. So who is the racist?[/b]
I'd put your comments down to your comprehension difficulties (as noted above) because otherwise, misconstruing what I've actually said about media behaviour as my viewpoint would be unbelievably dishonest.

More of the double standard. It’s sad, racism and hate speech is ok for one group as long as it’s tied to a bunch of pseudo-intellectual BS, but it's completely unacceptable for other groups.
So you believe Sista Souljah's poem and your statement are equivalent? That is sad, and that's where the double-standard comes in. Do you genuinely believe that the history and experience of black people and white people are exactly the same? What are you, some kind of slavery and segregation denier? Or do you think all that was a matter of historical circumstance that black people should really get over? Or maybe that the only way to achieve Martin Luther King's dream of a colour-blind society is for black people to stop being black. Something else? I'm all ears.

Exactly.
We agree on something. Wow.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by JAR

You stupid limey bast@rd!
From others, I'd demand a retraction and an apology. From you, it's a compliment, and one to add to the list of JAR-originated epithets, like race-traitor, no. 2 communist, no. 1 person who makes you cry, that kind of thing!
What you just said is so stupid, it's not even worth arguing with.
Funny you had to mention it though. I guess there's always a first time that you might even put up any kind of reasoned argument, but as you've yet to, I'm not exactly missing out.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by JAR

You stupid limey bast@rd! What you just said is so stupid, it's not even worth arguing with.

Ahem. Kindly refrain from slinging insults at an entire nation in response to the opions of an individual you stupid septic bastard!

[Giz]

Originally posted by BillyTK

Or maybe that the only way to achieve Martin Luther King's dream of a colour-blind society is for black people to stop being black. Something else? I'm all ears.



But neither side of a colour blind society should be defining itself vis a vis its neighbours! That would be crazy, like the Scots defining Scottishness as being anti English!

You give the impression you're defending a negative identity (based on antagonisms) rather than a positive one (based on heritage/culture).

It's a pity the University didn't pick a speaker who'd emphasise the potential richness of a multicultural society (or their own heritage as it stands alone) but instead got a confrontational viewpoint. Why didn't they go the hole hog and get Jerry Springer in as master of ceremonies?

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Giz


But neither side of a colour blind society should be defining itself vis a vis its neighbours! That would be crazy, like the Scots defining Scottishness as being anti English!
Do you know any Scottish people? ;)
You give the impression you're defending a negative identity (based on antagonisms) rather than a positive one (based on heritage/culture).
From what I've read, the latter is what Sista Souljah is trying to promote. But in this case, I'm not too sure if this is straightforward as you suggest; though I have no intention to simplify or demean black american heritage and culture, by suggesting that all of it was influenced by/in response to the oppression it occurred within; but undoubtedly there was is a relationship there. So should gospel and blues, for instance, be dumped because it doesn't fit in with a sanitised version of US society in which black and white sit together in harmony (sic)?

It's a pity the University didn't pick a speaker who'd emphasise the potential richness of a multicultural society (or their own heritage as it stands alone) but instead got a confrontational viewpoint. Why didn't they go the hole hog and get Jerry Springer in as master of ceremonies?
As I said, I understand Sistah Souljah's message to be of celebrating black heritage and resisting negative stereotypes like the "gangsta" image. But I haven't read her speech so I don't know for sure. What struck me though was the way the FoxNews and others dug up some rather dubious soundbites from over 10 years ago to villify her. I wonder why? Although I guess that the University of Louisville and Bank One have some culpability here with their choice of speaker for the first lecture, no such thing as bad publicity and all that.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by BillyTK

As I said, I understand Sistah Souljah's message to be of celebrating black heritage and resisting negative stereotypes like the "gangsta" image.

Read that out loud. Tell me you dont find that absurd.

If this bint is trying to resist negative stereotyping why has she adopted the name 'Sistah Souljah'? I mean really, wtf?

Thats like a white supremacist adopting the name 'Adolf Himmler Mengele' and saying he is trying to resist negative stereotyping.
well, maybe not quite that extreme but I think you see what Im getting at.

Sistah Souljah! Yo! I bust a cap in yo ass! In da hood muthafukka! :rolleyes:

[JAR]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Ahem. Kindly refrain from slinging insults at an entire nation in response to the opions of an individual you stupid septic bastard!
Sorry Jon, it's all in good fun. I just couldn't turn down an opportunity to call BillyTK a "limey."

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by JAR

Sorry Jon, it's all in good fun. I just couldn't turn down an opportunity to call BillyTK a "limey."
Why? Did you seriously think I'd find that even remotely offensive?