For headscratcher4: N Korea demands 'kidnappees'

[bignickel]

From the recent "News of the Wierd"

In October, North Korea's official news agency reported that Japan had broken a promise to return five people to North Korea. The five are Japanese citizens who were kidnapped by North Korea in 1978 but released to see their families in October 2002. North Korea's position is that they were released only temporarily and must be returned to North Korea. [Japan Today-Kyodo News, 10-19-03]
http://www.msnbc.com/comics/nw.asp

You could try putting that on your sig, but who'd believe it?

[Giz]

How will diplomatic relations ever improve whilst Japan refuses to behave honourably?

[shemp]

Yeah, let's pay 'em back for Pearl Harbor again! How dare they behave in a underhanded manner to those fine, upstanding North Koreans?

[HarryKeogh]

north korea officially has testicles the size of basketballs to ask for those people back.

[Graham]

IMO, Japan should have held out for more favourable terms for their return in the first place, rather than negotiating in bad faith - if that is what they've done.

Regardless of the size of their genetalia, the North Korean ruler-types are supremely paranoid and will view this as yet another confirmation of their suspicions.

That won't help any future negotiations on other, even more delicate, subjects (like nuclear weapons, for instance.

Graham

[Skeptic]

IMO, Japan should have held out for more favourable terms for their return in the first place, rather than negotiating in bad faith - if that is what they've done.

What is the world coming to! Lying to kidnappers and NOT COMING BACK to them despite promising to do so! I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you.

This bad faith negotiation seems to be spreading: the other day, a woman who was released by a rapist after she tearfully promised not to call the police, actually CALLED the police! Doesn't she see that such dishonest behavior would make it MUCH HARDER in the future to get rapists and kidnappers, already paranoid, to trust their victim's promises? Surely, she should have stayed a bit more, an re-negotiated in good faith, until her rapist would openly agree to release her AND let her call the police.

That won't help any future negotiations on other, even more delicate, subjects (like nuclear weapons, for instance.

You don't seem to understand that there is no such thing as "negotiations" with the North Korean leaders. Hoping to "peacefully negotiate" a disarmed North Korea is nothing more than trusting the worthless word of an insane mass murderer, NK's leader, to behave himself.

But there you have it, from Graham, the "liberal" and "sophisticated" real-politik worldview in a nutshell: bend over backwards to a dictator's insane demands ("you PROMISED to let me keep your kidnapped citizens! Waaaaaahhhhhh! I'll SUE!"), in order not to "make it harder" to reach future worthless agreements with him.

[Graham]

Originally posted by Skeptic
IMO, Japan should have held out for more favourable terms for their return in the first place, rather than negotiating in bad faith - if that is what they've done.

What is the world coming to! Lying to kidnappers and NOT COMING BACK to them despite promising to do so! I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you.

This bad faith negotiation seems to be spreading: the other day, a woman who was released by a rapist after she tearfully promised not to call the police, actually CALLED the police! Doesn't she see that such dishonest behavior would make it MUCH HARDER in the future to get rapists and kidnappers, already paranoid, to trust their victim's promises? Surely, she should have stayed a bit more, an re-negotiated in good faith, until her rapist would openly agree to release her AND let her call the police.

That won't help any future negotiations on other, even more delicate, subjects (like nuclear weapons, for instance.

You don't seem to understand that there is no such thing as "negotiations" with the North Korean leaders. Hoping to "peacefully negotiate" a disarmed North Korea is nothing more than trusting the worthless word of an insane mass murderer, NK's leader, to behave himself.

But there you have it, from Graham, the "liberal" and "sophisticated" real-politik worldview in a nutshell: bend over backwards to a dictator's insane demands ("you PROMISED to let me keep your kidnapped citizens! Waaaaaahhhhhh! I'll SUE!"), in order not to "make it harder" to reach future worthless agreements with him.

Whatever dude. You need to cut back on the caffeine, IMO, but whatever.

[headscratcher4]

Ah, it seems to me that the point is being missed.

First, those people only thought they were being kidnapped. After the North Koreans helped to correct that impression, they were perfectly happy with having, indipendently, chosen to allow themselves to be taken to North Korea (at gun point).

Second, and this is more imortant, those alleged victems only think they are visiting Japan. North Korea only thinks they are not being returned, and Japan only thinks that it isn't returning them.

See the Manchurian Candidate...