Alternative flu remedies backed by science?

[AndyD]

This morning, Channel Seven's Sunrise program on Australian National TV announced they would be reporting on "alternative cold and flu remedies - backed by science".

I missed the segment (had to go to work) but the oxymoron was such that I had to find out more. Here it is on their website (http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/b/sunrise/29961/alternative-coldflu-treatmentsa-new-peanut-allergy-cure).

Summarised, Dr Ramocha [sic] said there are those therapies that do no harm and other old wives' tales that can in fact help e.g. Gran’s kitchen meals, like chamomile tea and chicken soup.

The data does also back some health-food shop options:

Scientific evidence supports

* Garlic Supplements
* Echinacea
* Zinc Supplements

However, Ramocha [sic] warns that using natural remedies to ever [sic] get cold or flu will not work. They can be used to target specific symptoms.

They then list Homeopathy and Gran's "Kitchen Food" as things that do "no harm". Since they are also not remedies for colds or flu, I can't work out why they are mentioned at all.

Beyond that, the information on the website is non-existent. (Edit: I just noted a video link there)

NOTE: The spokesperson was actually Dr Ramesh Manocha - the Sunrise transcript is wrong.

[athon]

Well, going on that, homeopathy does indeed pose a potential treatment for those seasonal ailments. I take plenty of fluids when I've got a cold. :)

The Seven network is pretty much as gullible as it gets. Kochie would be pretty on the ball when it comes to financial nonsense, yet in matters of any other pseudoscience, he's as thick headed as the next chump.

Athon

[JJM]

look here: http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69230.cfm

[AndyD]

look here: http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69230.cfm

I love the default disclaimer page (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/11790.cfm?Disclaimer_Redirect=%2Fmskcc%2Fhtml%2F69 230.cfm) that comes up warning the reader to basically ignore anything and everything on the site.

Memorial Sloan-Kettering does not assume any risk whatsoever for your use of this website or the information contained herein. Health-related information changes frequently and therefore information contained on this Web site may be outdated, incomplete or incorrect.

I have since checked Cochrane for some info and it seems the evidence is, at best, underwhelming for Garlic, Zinc and Echinacea. I didn't need to check for homeopathy and I gambled on them not having covered trials on chicken soup.

[Deetee]

Chicken soup (http://www.chestjournal.org/content/118/4/1150.full) for upper respiratory tract infections.

Traditional chicken soup was prepared according to a family recipe, which will be referred to as “Grandma’s soup” (C. Fleischer; personal communication; 1970). This recipe is as follows:
• 1 5- to 6-lb stewing hen or baking chicken;
• 1 package of chicken wings;
• 3 large onions;
• 1 large sweet potato;
• 3 parsnips;
• 2 turnips;
• 11 to 12 large carrots;
• 5 to 6 celery stems;
• 1 bunch of parsley; and
• salt and pepper to taste.
Clean the chicken, put it in a large pot, and cover it with cold water. Bring the water to a boil. Add the chicken wings, onions, sweet potato, parsnips, turnips, and carrots. Boil about 1.5 h. Remove fat from the surface as it accumulates. Add the parsley and celery. Cook the mixture about 45 min longer. Remove the chicken. The chicken is not used further for the soup. (The meat makes excellent chicken parmesan.) Put the vegetables in a food processor until they are chopped fine or pass through a strainer. Both were performed in the present study. Salt and pepper to taste. (Note: this soup freezes well.) Matzoh balls were prepared according to the recipe on the back of the box of matzoh meal (Manischewitz; Jersey City, NJ).

[Mojo]

They then list Homeopathy...


Homoeopaths love to cite a Cochrane review (http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab001957.html) of "oscillococcinum" for flu as showing a positive result. It in fact concluded: It is claimed that Oscillococcinum (or similar homeopathic medicines) can be taken either regularly over the winter months to prevent influenza or as a treatment. Trials do not show that homoeopathic Oscillococcinum can prevent influenza. However, taking homoeopathic Oscillococcinum once you have influenza might shorten the illness, but more research is needed.


That's barely a positive outcome, but I can see why they think it's worth citing, as "more research is needed" is about as positive as properly conducted reviews of homoeopathy ever get.

[JJM]

Homoeopaths love to cite a Cochrane review (http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab001957.html) of "oscillococcinum" for flu as showing a positive result. It in fact concluded:

That's barely a positive outcome, but I can see why they think it's worth citing, as "more research is needed" is about as positive as properly conducted reviews of homoeopathy ever get.Yes, some reviews present information that is essentially negative and then call for more research; it makes no sense. There is another review-group (BestBETs) that published a review of chiropractic for colic. They had three non-RCTs that favored it, and one, large RCT that found it no better than placebo. The conclusion was (off the top of my head) 'Chiro is not proven effective; but chiros may still help'!?

[pgwenthold]

Chicken soup (http://www.chestjournal.org/content/118/4/1150.full) for upper respiratory tract infections.

1. Why are the wings not added until after it boils?
2. I wouldn't want to remove fat, but will remove the collagen/protein that foams up (I like to use a steamer to hold the chicken down below water level)
3. Why isn't the meat added back to the soup? :-(
4. Add salt early on. Also, don't underestimate how much salt is needed (although that much onion will help boost the flavors)

[JJM]

1. Why are the wings not added until after it boils?
2. I wouldn't want to remove fat, but will remove the collagen/protein that foams up (I like to use a steamer to hold the chicken down below water level)
3. Why isn't the meat added back to the soup? :-(
4. Add salt early on. Also, don't underestimate how much salt is needed (although that much onion will help boost the flavors)I had some questions, as well. Isn't this a process for making the chicken into leather? Also, there is an enormous difference in the needed amount of water between a 1.5 lb. and a 6 lb. bird, as well as the ratio of bird:wings. That should result in a major difference in the % solids in the final product. Also, how many servings does it furnish?

[Deetee]

1. Why are the wings not added until after it boils?
Because neutrophil chemotaxis variation is inversely proportional to avian pteroid viability as judged by trypan blue exclusion but only below 99 degrees C.
Any higher than that and cytotoxic T cell activity alters the Zymosan-activated serum chemoattractiveness for neutrophil-dependent Matzoh-ball hygroscopy.

[pgwenthold]

Because neutrophil chemotaxis variation is inversely proportional to avian pteroid viability as judged by trypan blue exclusion but only below 99 degrees C.


Then there really needs to be some high-altitude directions.

[pgwenthold]

I had some questions, as well. Isn't this a process for making the chicken into leather? Also, there is an enormous difference in the needed amount of water between a 1.5 lb. and a 6 lb. bird,

It says a "5 - 6 lb bird", not 1.5 lb.

[JJM]

It says a "5 - 6 lb bird", not 1.5 lb.Thanks, now I can sleep well tonight.

[pgwenthold]

Thanks, now I can sleep well tonight.

Well, if you have any problems, have some chicken soup. It will make you sleep better.

[Dymanic]

Notably absent from that list is one alternative remedy that may actually have some basis: there is a small amount of preliminary evidence suggesting that extract of black elderberry may have modest antiviral properties that could make it somewhat effective in against influenza. Possibly another remedy most effective when taken in combination with Credulin (http://www.politedissent.com/cbdr.html#credulin), but still; could turn out to be something there.

[JJM]

... there is a small amount of preliminary evidence suggesting that extract of black elderberry may have modest antiviral properties that could make it somewhat effective in against influenza. Possibly another remedy most effective when taken in combination with Credulin (http://www.politedissent.com/cbdr.html#credulin), but still; could turn out to be something there.Many compounds show activity in test tube experiments for every one that is suitable as a drug (or drug precursor). Hundreds of thousands of natural antibiotics are known, compared to the dozens that are approved for use.