How Cool Is Jimmy Carter!

[Fat Bottom Gurl]

The words of God do not justify cruelty to women. Discrimination and abuse wrongly backed by doctrine.


"I have been a practising Christian all my life and a deacon and Bible teacher for many years. My faith is a source of strength and comfort to me, as religious beliefs are to hundreds of millions of people around the world.

So my decision to sever my ties with the Southern Baptist Convention, after six decades, was painful and difficult. It was, however, an unavoidable decision when th e convention's leaders, quoting a few carefully selected Bible verses and claiming that Eve was created second to Adam and was responsible for original sin, ordained that women must be "subservient" to their husbands and prohibited from serving as deacons, pastors or chaplains in the military service. This was in conflict with my belief - confirmed in the holy scriptures - that we are all equal in the eyes of God. "

Read entire article here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jul/12/jimmy-carter-womens-rights-equality


I suppose some would argue that it should not have taken him six decades....

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I thought it was a classy move.

[Darat]

You would!

[Brainster]

Howard Dean left his church in a dispute over a bike path. As a dedicated cyclist, I find that much cooler.

[Marc39]

Dhimmi Carter.

[Pardalis]

Shouldn't this be in "religion and phylosophy?"

[daredelvis]

Howard Dean left his church in a dispute over a bike path. As a dedicated cyclist, I find that much cooler.
As a dedicated cyclist, I see your point. But if I can agree with you on that one point I think even you have to admit that this is a good move on Carter's part.

Daredelvis

[Achán hiNidráne]

I suppose some would argue that it should not have taken him six decades....

I would argue that like all liberal or moderate Christians, Carter is cherry picking and misquoting his holy book in a desperate attempt to white wash over the barbarism of a faith that he's either psychologically unable or politically unwilling to let go of.

Mr. Peanut wants to have it both ways: Keep the supersticion that's so popular with the knuckle dragging masses, but re-write it to suit his own left wing tastes and to those who contribute generously to his causes.

For this reason, I have more respect for the theocratic swine who make up the Religious Reich than I ever will for the theists who try to cover up humanism with a mystical vernier. At least Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, Rick Warren and their red-neck followers have principles... evil principles, but principles never the less.

[Bob Blaylock]

How Cool Is Jimmy Carter!


98.6° fahrenheit, just the same as everyone else.

[ProbeX]

I understand, however, why many political leaders can be reluctant about stepping into this minefield. Religion, and tradition, are powerful and sensitive area to challenge.

Yes, and maybe that's why for years you placed your own political career above concerns that your religion apparently held disparaging views of women.

Can't help thinking the man probably noticed a pattern of gender disparity long ago. He doesn't hit me as stupid or lacking in social awareness about these things, considering all his humanitarian involvements/projects.

For whatever it's worth, at least he's honoring the fact of it now.

[tomwaits]

Howard Dean left his church in a dispute over a bike path.

That's awesome.

I remember becoming disillusioned by my church because their band sucked. We all have our hobbies that we're proud of...

[portlandatheist]

I'll give credit where credit is due: good move President Carter

[Segnosaur]

He's history's greatest monster!!

[Darth Rotor]

People in America change religions all the time. It's a national habit. I guess he was very disappointed that SBC has become more reactionary, not less so, as time has gone on and he can't square his own principles with where SBC is going.

Newt Gingrich, of all people, became Catholic recently.

This isn't a big deal, other than the SBC gets the "we aren't as good as Scientologists at having celebrity members" smack down deal here.

[Dr Adequate]

For this reason, I have more respect for the theocratic swine who make up the Religious Reich than I ever will for the theists who try to cover up humanism with a mystical vernier. At least Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, Rick Warren and their red-neck followers have principles... evil principles, but principles never the less. But they're cherry-picking too. It's just that they've cherry-picked the Bible so that it means that God wants them to be jerks. On the whole, I like Carter's way better.

[Safe-Keeper]

The words of God do not justify cruelty to women.Oh? The Brick Testament (http://www.thebricktestament.com/epistles_of_paul/instructions_for_women/1co11_04.html), as so often, beautifully illustrates the Word in a way simply not covered by written text only. Excerpt:

But for a man it is not right to have his head covered, since he is the image of God and reflects God's glory; but a woman is the reflection of man's glory.

Wives should be subject to their husbands as to the Lord, since as Christ is head of the Church and saves the whole body, so is the husband the head of his wife.

And as the Church is subject to Christ, so should wives be to their husbands, in everything.

The head of woman is man.

Basically, man was created to be God's doll, and the woman was created to be man's doll. Reminds me of Ibsen's play The Doll House, in which the female lead laments not only that she is naught but the plaything of her husband, but that she has realized that her children are nothing but her playthings. God has us males to keep him company and serve Him, and we, in turn, have women, who, when married to us, must obey our every command.

Sorry, Jimmy Carter, but while I respect and support what appears to be a move from a misogynistic church, I cannot agree with you that the Bible doesn't support sexism. It does.

[Fat Bottom Gurl]

But they're cherry-picking too. It's just that they've cherry-picked the Bible so that it means that God wants them to be jerks. On the whole, I like Carter's way better.

I agree. It would have been incredible had Carter said...bah...this christian belief is utter nonsense (or any other belief). I'm thinking he has at least brought some serious doubt to the bible intrepretation. Baby steps for sure - but at least steps.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Howard Dean left his church in a dispute over a bike path. As a dedicated cyclist, I find that much cooler.

If Howard Dean is looking for a bike friendly church, I've got a suggestion for him. ;)

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/Kilstryke/missionaries_080705.jpg

[kellyb]

I'm a little confused on how he could have just now noticed the SBC promotes extreme sexism second only to radical Islam...

[Ian Osborne]

But they're cherry-picking too. It's just that they've cherry-picked the Bible so that it means that God wants them to be jerks. On the whole, I like Carter's way better.

Precisely. It seems books like the Bible and the Koran can bring out the best or the worst in an individual. So much better when it's the best.

[MattusMaximus]

I approve :D

[corplinx]

I suppose some would argue that it should not have taken him six decades....

They would argue that naively. Until the late 70s/early 80s, the direction of the Southern Baptist Convention was overseas missions work. In the late 70s, a megachurch founder Lane Rogers sort of took over the convention.

Instead of being overly concerned with missions work and sending money oversears, the SBC churches trended to keep money at home and built gyms and diploma mills. There was also a top level direction to return to hardcore fundamentalism and young earth creationism.

The SBC that Jimmy Carter was originally a member of no longer exists. It evolved into something more authoritarian and less humanitarian.

[linusrichard]

I'm a little confused on how he could have just now noticed the SBC promotes extreme sexism second only to radical Islam...

Well, it wasn't "just now" - he split from the SBC almost nine years ago. But your point still stands - it seems like he could have seen it sooner.

[Undesired Walrus]

Sorry Jimmy, but you're wrong:

9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

[eeyore1954]

Oh? The Brick Testament (http://www.thebricktestament.com/epistles_of_paul/instructions_for_women/1co11_04.html), as so often, beautifully illustrates the Word in a way simply not covered by written text only. Excerpt:

But for a man it is not right to have his head covered, since he is the image of God and reflects God's glory; but a woman is the reflection of man's glory.

Wives should be subject to their husbands as to the Lord, since as Christ is head of the Church and saves the whole body, so is the husband the head of his wife.

And as the Church is subject to Christ, so should wives be to their husbands, in everything.

The head of woman is man.

Basically, man was created to be God's doll, and the woman was created to be man's doll. Reminds me of Ibsen's play The Doll House, in which the female lead laments not only that she is naught but the plaything of her husband, but that she has realized that her children are nothing but her playthings. God has us males to keep him company and serve Him, and we, in turn, have women, who, when married to us, must obey our every command.

Sorry, Jimmy Carter, but while I respect and support what appears to be a move from a misogynistic church, I cannot agree with you that the Bible doesn't support sexism. It does.

you were responding to
The words of God do not justify cruelty to women

using these verses

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

but don't forget the next verse
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Clearly these particular verses do not justify cruelty to women.

[eeyore1954]

Keep the supersticion that's so popular with the knuckle dragging masses,
I take it you feel you are greatly superior intellectually to the masses who believe differently then you. Your knuckles don't drag but theirs do.

[Just thinking]

What I find interesting is that it took him 60 years to find this out (snippets from the Bible showing superiority of man over women). Hell, I think I was hearing such nonsense from some of my earliest exposures!

Oh wait ... I see this exact point was made earlier.

Carry on ;)

[Safe-Keeper]

Clearly these particular verses do not justify cruelty to women. "Love" is an incredibly broad term. Lots of abusive husbands will tell you they love their wives, and lots of cruel dictators will tell you they love their subjects. Not to mention that Yahweh Himself is supposed to love mankind and especially His chosen people, and yet subjects us to more genocides, massacres, pests, floods, and stoning throughout the Bible than a deranged tribal warlord.

[Achán hiNidráne]

I take it you feel you are greatly superior intellectually to the masses who believe differently then you. Your knuckles don't drag but theirs do.

Would you prefer "savages?" "Barbarians?" "Animals?" "'[K]nuckle dragging masses' is the kindest term I could think of to describe those who perpetuate and spread the mental cancer of "God" that eats away at our civilization and hold back human progress.

And how else am I supposed to call people who believe that there is an invisible man who lives in the sky?

[Cleon]

Would you prefer "savages?" "Barbarians?" "Animals?" "'[K]nuckle dragging masses' is the kindest term I could think of to describe those who perpetuate and spread the mental cancer of "God" that eats away at our civilization and hold back human progress.

And how else am I supposed to call people who believe that there is an invisible man who lives in the sky?

How about "people?"

[The Central Scrutinizer]

How about "people?"

With knuckles that drag?

[joobz]

He's history's greatest monster!!
"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Carter R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtan"

[Achán hiNidráne]

But they're cherry-picking too. It's just that they've cherry-picked the Bible so that it means that God wants them to be jerks. On the whole, I like Carter's way better.

I'm curious to know what portions of the Damn Bible are "good," because my examinations of the document have found none.

"Love thy neighbor?" By neighbor they meant the same member of your tribe. Everyone else you could slaughter, enslave, and pillage.

"Love thy enemy?" Loving those who would mistreat or misuse you makes "love" meaningless.

Give your possessions to the poor and live in blissful, holy, communism? Sorry, I may not be a raving Objectivist, but I don't think the poor will be helped by lowering yourself to their level of misery.

I'm sorry, but the Damn Bible is an evil book, followed by evil people no matter how "good" they (or others) proclaim themselves to be.

[Achán hiNidráne]

How about "people?"

Sorry, the theists lost their "people" privileges when they started to believe in things that are not there.

[joobz]

I'm curious to know what portions of the Damn Bible are "good," because my examinations of the document have found none.

"Love thy neighbor?" By neighbor they meant the same member of your tribe. Everyone else you could slaughter, enslave, and pillage.

"Love thy enemy?" Loving those who would mistreat or misuse you makes "love" meaningless.
To be fair, the old testament limitation of who gets treated nicely was revoked in the new testament.

Give your possessions to the poor and live in blissful, holy, communism? Sorry, I may not be a raving Objectivist, but I don't think the poor will be helped by lowering yourself to their level of misery. Better be careful. We all know that Jesus wore business suites and certainly wasn't any stinking commie pinko. :p

[Cleon]

Sorry, the theists lost their "people" privileges when they started to believe in things that are not there.

Sorry, but no, and you're pretty sick if you think so.

Nobody ever surrenders their "people" rights. The moment you decide that someone -- anyone -- is "less human" than you are, you have left the realm of rational thought and are headed to a very, very bad place.

[Cleon]

I'm sorry, but the Damn Bible is an evil book, followed by evil people no matter how "good" they (or others) proclaim themselves to be.

************. And no amount of "I'm sorrys" make it true.

I don't care how much hate and condescension you cram into your posts, but you cannot tell me that these people are/were "evil:"

Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Archbishop Desmond Tutu
Pastor Martin Niemoller
Bishop Oscar Romero
Fr. Roy Bourgeois

You may disagree with them. You may consider them horribly wrong, misguided, or deluded. But evil? No. Just no.

People have done horrible, horrible things in the name of religion. But people have done great good as well.

Even if 90% of the population is wrong, that doesn't make you better than someone just because they believe in God. Get over yourself, Mark.

[kellyb]

Sorry, but no, and you're pretty sick if you think so.

Nobody ever surrenders their "people" rights. The moment you decide that someone -- anyone -- is "less human" than you are, you have left the realm of rational thought and are headed to a very, very bad place.

I'm a fairly militant atheist, but I have to agree.
Being superstitious doesn't preclude personhood, for the love of science!

[Achán hiNidráne]

Sorry, but no, and you're pretty sick if you think so.

Yes, I'm sick. Sick and tired of living in a world where people are not only allowed to believe lies but foist them on everyone else. Religious lies that area a millstone around human progress. Lies that lead to death, war, and oppression. Lies that that our civilization coddles and gives special protections to.

Nobody ever surrenders their "people" rights.

Just like god, there are no such things as "rights." There are only privileges that are given and taken away by the State. If you want to keep those privileges you have to fight those who are feverishly working to take them away from you.

My privileges don't matter to the theists, why should their privileges matter to me?

The moment you decide that someone -- anyone -- is "less human" than you are, you have left the realm of rational thought and are headed to a very, very bad place.

Oh don't worry, I have no intention of spending my life in a prison cell for harming anyone. I may be angry, but I'm not stupid.

Just tell them to leave me alone and keep their moronic "faith" far, far away from me, my government, the classrooms my taxes pay for, and my civilization and I'll be right as rain.

[kellyb]

Just like god, there are no such things as "rights." There are only privileges that are given and taken away by the State. If you want to keep those privileges you have to fight those who are feverishly working to take them away from you.

My privileges don't matter to the theists, why should their privileges matter to me?

The difference between a right and a privilege is purely semantic.
Some of them don't care about our rights, but many are very "live and let live", and support separation of church and state.
Your argument would be less bizarre if it was directed exclusively towards those who wish to rob us of our rights, which is not all theists.

[Cleon]

Yes, I'm sick. Sick and tired of living in a world where people are not only allowed to believe lies but foist them on everyone else. Religious lies that area a millstone around human progress. Lies that lead to death, war, and oppression. Lies that that our civilization coddles and gives special protections to.


Yes, you're such a brave little hero, struggling against current, boldly defending the banner of Truth against the constant onslaught of the disgusting, subhuman, masses!

No.

You're just an angry, sad individual who likes to feel "special," and are taking your anger out on people who don't necessarily deserve it.


Just like god, there are no such things as "rights." There are only privileges that are given and taken away by the State. If you want to keep those privileges you have to fight those who are feverishly working to take them away from you.

My privileges don't matter to the theists, why should their privileges matter to me?


Sweet crumbly Christ with Limburger cheese, could you sound any more fascistic?

First you're ranting and raving about people being "subhuman" and now it's how their rights can and should be taken away by the State.

Do you seriously not see how this is firmly in the "Not Good" category?


Oh don't worry, I have no intention of spending my life in a prison cell for harming anyone. I may be angry, but I'm not stupid.

Evidence?


Just tell them to leave me alone and keep their moronic "faith" far, far away from me, my government, the classrooms my taxes pay for, and my civilization and I'll be right as rain.

No. No, you won't.



I do see evil here, but it's not coming from theists.

[Achán hiNidráne]

Yes, you're such a brave little hero, struggling against current, boldly defending the banner of Truth against the constant onslaught of the disgusting, subhuman, masses!

No.

You're just an angry, sad individual who likes to feel "special," and are taking your anger out on people who don't necessarily deserve it.

Oh please, spare me your amateur psychoanalysis.

What would you have me do? Huh? Write papers? Give speeches? Take part in one useless debate after another that go no where and do nothing?

It hasn't worked in convincing the theists that they are wrong in the past. What makes you think that it's going to work now or in the future?

In the meantime, the Creationists are still worming their way into our education system. Gays were stripped of their "privilege" to marry one another in California last fall largely thanks to the votes of the religionists. We've got Islamic terrorism versus Zionism with the U.S. happily dragging itself on to the latter's side because fundies want the "Holy Land" to be held by the Jews for the day JEEZ-us comes back.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO ABOUT IT? HUH??


Sweet crumbly Christ with Limburger cheese, could you sound any more fascistic?

Well, sainted, blessed, democracy has done such a WONDERFUL job at keeping church and state separate by giving the theist majority the right to squash the atheist minority!

First you're ranting and raving about people being "subhuman" and now it's how their rights can and should be taken away by the State.

Do you seriously not see how this is firmly in the "Not Good" category?

I didn't say that they should be taken away. I said that if you want to keep your alleged rights, you better be damn ready to fight for them.

We atheists/skeptics/humanists are not fighting, we're talk, talk, talk, talk...
Evidence?

I thought I was innocent until proven guilty.

No. No, you won't.

If you think you can read my thoughts, Cleon, then you might have a shot at the MDC.

I do see evil here, but it's not coming from theists.

Then you are blind.

[Achán hiNidráne]

Your argument would be less bizarre if it was directed exclusively towards those who wish to rob us of our rights, which is not all theists.

Read Harris. Read Dawkins. "Moderate" and "liberal" theism enables fundamentalism.

[kellyb]

Read Harris. Read Dawkins. "Moderate" and "liberal" theism enables fundamentalism.

Calling the liberal and moderate theists "evil" non-persons is absurd, and serves only to make atheists look like bigoted, psychotic Stalinists.
You're calling almost everyone's grandma these things, dude.
But good luck with that approach.

[Achán hiNidráne]

Fine! I'm a wicked, bad, evil, sick person for thinking less of the theists than is politically correct!

There, are you happy?

It still doesn't solve the goddamn problem of a world mired in superstition!

[The Painter]

Well, sainted, blessed, democracy has done such a WONDERFUL job at keeping church and state separate by giving the theist majority the right to squash the atheist minority!



Funny, I don't feel squashed.

[kellyb]

Fine! I'm a wicked, bad, evil, sick person for thinking less of the theists than is politically correct!

There, are you happy?

It still doesn't solve the goddamn problem of a world mired in superstition!

I used to be Christian, and interacting online with smart, friendly atheists was crucial to my acceptance of the fact that religion was not necessarily what produced ethics and morality. (which was a necessary step in being able to question god's existence.)

You catch more flies with honey, and all that.

[Achán hiNidráne]

I used to be Christian, and interacting online with smart, friendly atheists was crucial to my acceptance of the fact that religion was not necessarily what produced ethics and morality. (which was a necessary step in being able to question god's existence.)



I'm sorry that I don't have the patience or temperament to be "smart" or "friendly."

[Achán hiNidráne]

You're calling almost everyone's grandma these things, dude.


Right, and those grandmas in California who marched into the voting booths to vote "Yes" on Prop 10 and took away the ability for gays to marry, where they just a few religious fanatics from the RCC or the LSD or were they your average, "morderate" Christian?

There is no way that there are that many fundamentalists in California.

[Achán hiNidráne]

Funny, I don't feel squashed.

I do.

I feel it every time I hear some right-wing commentator accuse me and other atheists of being Communist; every time I'm told by my father that "I don't believe in anything" because I no longer go to Mass; every time I have to keep my mouth shut while some religious or woo ass tells me that "science doesn't know everything" or that "evolution is just a theory" when what I really want to do is scream my head off in their face about how wrong they are; every time I read a church sign telling me how I deserved to be tortured for all eternity because I have the brains to see that there are no magic men who live in the sky.

I want to scream. I want act up. I knock the Creationist's teeth down their throats. I want to burn down their churches and temples and build brothels over the top of them. I want their holy books recycled into toilet paper.

But that's not the "nice" thing to do. That would only give them ammo to use against us. They have to whole damn culture on their side to condemn us while all we do is chatter amongst ourselves in our forums and freethought clubs. If anyone dares to speak out, even when using he most milquetoast of languge, they're shouted down as being "militant"--EVEN BY OTHER SO-CALLED ATHEISTS!

I feel more than squashed, I feel suffocated.

So you'll forgive me for not being a fan of my theist neighbors.

[Slayhamlet]

I do.

I feel it every time I hear some right-wing commentator accuse me and other atheists of being Communist; every time I'm told by my father that "I don't believe in anything" because I no longer go to Mass; every time I have to keep my mouth shut while some religious or woo ass tells me that "science doesn't know everything" or that "evolution is just a theory" when what I really want to do is scream my head off in their face about how wrong they are; every time I read a church sign telling me how I deserved to be tortured for all eternity because I have the brains to see that there are no magic men who live in the sky.

I want to scream. I want act up. I knock the Creationist's teeth down their throats. I want to burn down their churches and temples and build brothels over the top of them. I want their holy books recycled into toilet paper.

But that's not the "nice" thing to do. That would only give them ammo to use against us. They have to whole damn culture on their side to condemn us while all we do is chatter amongst ourselves in our forums and freethought clubs. If anyone dares to speak out, even when using he most milquetoast of languge, they're shouted down as being "militant"--EVEN BY OTHER SO-CALLED ATHEISTS!

I feel more than squashed, I feel suffocated.

So you'll forgive me for not being a fan of my theist neighbors.

Please go see a psychiatrist.

I don't mean that as an insult. I have a psychiatrist. They can help.

[The Painter]

I do.

I feel it every time I hear some right-wing commentator accuse me and other atheists of being Communist; every time I'm told by my father that "I don't believe in anything" because I no longer go to Mass; every time I have to keep my mouth shut while some religious or woo ass tells me that "science doesn't know everything" or that "evolution is just a theory" when what I really want to do is scream my head off in their face about how wrong they are; every time I read a church sign telling me how I deserved to be tortured for all eternity because I have the brains to see that there are no magic men who live in the sky.

I want to scream. I want act up. I knock the Creationist's teeth down their throats. I want to burn down their churches and temples and build brothels over the top of them. I want their holy books recycled into toilet paper.

But that's not the "nice" thing to do. That would only give them ammo to use against us. They have to whole damn culture on their side to condemn us while all we do is chatter amongst ourselves in our forums and forethought clubs. If anyone dares to speak out, even when using he most milquetoast of language, they're shouted down as being "militant"--EVEN BY OTHER SO-CALLED ATHEISTS!

I feel more than squashed, I feel suffocated.

So you'll forgive me for not being a fan of my theist neighbors.

Just curious, how old are you?

[kellyb]

I do.

I feel it every time I hear some right-wing commentator accuse me and other atheists of being Communist; every time I'm told by my father that "I don't believe in anything" because I no longer go to Mass; every time I have to keep my mouth shut while some religious or woo ass tells me that "science doesn't know everything" or that "evolution is just a theory" when what I really want to do is scream my head off in their face about how wrong they are; every time I read a church sign telling me how I deserved to be tortured for all eternity because I have the brains to see that there are no magic men who live in the sky.

I want to scream. I want act up. I knock the Creationist's teeth down their throats. I want to burn down their churches and temples and build brothels over the top of them. I want their holy books recycled into toilet paper.

But that's not the "nice" thing to do. That would only give them ammo to use against us. They have to whole damn culture on their side to condemn us while all we do is chatter amongst ourselves in our forums and freethought clubs. If anyone dares to speak out, even when using he most milquetoast of languge, they're shouted down as being "militant"--EVEN BY OTHER SO-CALLED ATHEISTS!

I feel more than squashed, I feel suffocated.

So you'll forgive me for not being a fan of my theist neighbors.

This is not normal, yo.
I feel irritated by the theists, too, but your feelings are out of the range of the normal, and you need to either fix this yourself or seek help.
Because this is not normal.

[Cleon]

This is not normal, yo.
I feel irritated by the theists, too, but your feelings are out of the range of the normal, and you need to either fix this yourself or seek help.
Because this is not normal.

And definitely not healthy.

[Undesired Walrus]

Fine! I'm a wicked, bad, evil, sick person for thinking less of the theists than is politically correct!


There's politically correct ("I deeply respect your faith") and then there is bordeline psychotic hatred.

Calm down Mark. You'll never get a girlfriend with this behaviour. It's just, well, just not very civilised.

[Achán hiNidráne]

I'm not going to get a girlfriend, period. So what's your point again?

[Undesired Walrus]

That you are not acting like a civilised human being. You use the word a lot, so what is your definition of a civilised person? As my definition is not being seen here.

On the issue of civil rights, Martin Luther and Malcolm X didn't hold back in their language, but there was never this degree of venom (Burning down churches? Come on.).

On the girlfriend front, nonesense. Just change your attitude.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I'm not going to get a girlfriend, period. So what's your point again?

Get a boyfriend then.

EDIT: And while you're at it, read this: 10 Things Christians and Atheists Can (And Must) Agree On (http://www.cracked.com/article_15759_10-things-christians-atheists-can-must-agree-on.html)

[Cleon]

Get a boyfriend then.

Or at least a Fleshlight or something.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

And if I may be so bold as to shift this thread back on topic; how the hell is anyone supposed to think that Jimmy Carter is actually serious about standing up for the rights of women while he shills for radical islam? (http://www.google.com/search?q=Jimmy+Carter+Hamas&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

Has Jimmeh ever condemned honor killings? Has he apologized for supporting Hamas or it's parent organization The Muslim Brotherhood (which also founded Al-Queada)?

No?

Well then he can stuff his two-faced hypocritical pie-hole about some church that has not endorsed or turned a blind eye to fathers beating their daughters to death for being seen with a boy in public after 9:00 pm.

[The Painter]

I'm not going to get a girlfriend, period. So what's your point again?

Ah, come on. Even Hitler had a girlfriend. There's a lid for every pot.

[Cleon]

And if I may be so bold as to shift this thread back on topic; how the hell is anyone supposed to think that Jimmy Carter is actually serious about standing up for the rights of women while he shills for radical islam? (http://www.google.com/search?q=Jimmy+Carter+Hamas&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

Has Jimmeh ever condemned honor killings? Has he apologized for supporting Hamas or it's parent organization The Muslim Brotherhood (which also founded Al-Queada)?


Jimmy Carter has not endorsed or supported Hamas, and it is dishonest in the extreme to claim that he has.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Jimmy Carter has not endorsed or supported Hamas, and it is dishonest in the extreme to claim that he has.

Jimmy Carter has endorsed and supported Hamas. It is dishonest in the extreme to say that he hasn't.

Carter: Stop favoring Fatah over Hamas (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181813074587&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)

Carter: Hamas can be trusted
(http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3662189,00.html)
Carter: Remove Hamas from terror list (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/16/bomb-plot-carter-gaza-discovered/)

[linusrichard]

Ah, come on. Even Hitler had a girlfriend. There's a lid for every pot.

Best. Godwin. Ever.

[Marc39]

Jimmy Carter has not endorsed or supported Hamas, and it is dishonest in the extreme to claim that he has.

Of course, he has. Carter legitimzed Hamas's election. His latest antics are trying to get the US State Dep't to remove Hamas from the list of terrorist organizations, despite Hamas's steadfast refusal to renounce violence and terrorism and accept Israel's right to exist.

[Darth Rotor]

Ah, come on. Even Hitler had a girlfriend. There's a lid for every pot.

Best. Godwin. Ever.
Droll it was.

However, political power is an aphrodasiac. Of course he had a girl friend. From what I recall of Adolf's younger life, the "chicks dig Beer Hall Putschers" line didn't catch on until after he was in a position of power. I may have overlooked, or not read the right bits, of his early romantic life.

Hmm, Beer Hall Putsch easily morphs into Beer Hall Pu--

***Voice of Reason interrupts***

-- don't go there, Darth, really, just don't go there.

@ Mark: the anger thing is self-destructive. Trust me on this one, I've walked a few miles in those shoes. The only person who can stop the inner pain is you. My first step was taking an anger management course. As you can see from some of my posts on JREF, it isn't all the way gone. I was also a bit lucky to fall into a profession I enjoyed. Didn't run into job hate until late in life.

You might say I am a life long recovering Angerholic.

I'd not wish that on anyone.

DR

[Cleon]

Jimmy Carter has endorsed and supported Hamas. It is dishonest in the extreme to say that he hasn't.

Repeating the erroneous claim doesn't make it any less wrong.



Carter: Stop favoring Fatah over Hamas (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181813074587&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)

Carter: Hamas can be trusted
(http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3662189,00.html)
Carter: Remove Hamas from terror list (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/16/bomb-plot-carter-gaza-discovered/)

By your "logic," Nixon was a Maoist.

[Cleon]

Of course, he has. Carter legitimzed Hamas's election. His latest antics are trying to get the US State Dep't to remove Hamas from the list of terrorist organizations, despite Hamas's steadfast refusal to renounce violence and terrorism and accept Israel's right to exist.

None of which involves "endorsing and supporting Hamas," any more than Nixon's trip to China was an endorsement of Mao Tse-Tung.

[Marc39]

None of which involves "endorsing and supporting Hamas," any more than Nixon's trip to China was an endorsement of Mao Tse-Tung.

All of which precisely involves endorsing and supporting.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

None of which involves "endorsing and supporting Hamas," any more than Nixon's trip to China was an endorsement of Mao Tse-Tung.

What color is the sky on your world? You got caught making a bogus claim and got nailed on it.

[Cleon]

All of which precisely involves endorsing and supporting.

Not remotely.

What color is the sky on your world? You got caught making a bogus claim and got nailed on it.

Uh, no. The bogus claim is still yours. But thanks for playing.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Not remotely.



Uh, no. The bogus claim is still yours. But thanks for playing.

Jimmeh Carter specifically endorsed and supported Hamas. You lied and said he didn't and got caught.

Deal with it.

[Cleon]

Jimmeh Carter specifically endorsed and supported Hamas. You lied and said he didn't and got caught.

He did not specifically endorse and/or support Hamas, I didn't lie, and you certainly didn't catch me. Saying the same thing over and over again won't help your case any.


Deal with it.

Now that's convincing! :rolleyes:

[Sword_Of_Truth]

He did not specifically endorse and/or support Hamas, I didn't lie, and you certainly didn't catch me.

Yes he did. He's called for Hamas to be removed from the official list of terrorist groups. He said they can be trusted. These are specific statements of support and endorsement. You not only lied but you went and called me a liar. As if you didn't think I could google "Carter" and "Hamas" at the same time.

You are the one who is being "dishonest in the extreme" here.

[Cleon]

Yes he did. He's called for Hamas to be removed from the official list of terrorist groups. He said they can be trusted. These are specific statements of support and endorsement.

No, they're not, and insisting that they are over and over again won't make them so. They are attempts at opening a dialogue. You may disagree with Carter, but that's no more "support and endorsement" than Nixon "supported and endorsed" Mao.


You not only lied but you went and called me a liar. As if you didn't think I could google "Carter" and "Hamas" at the same time.

You are the one who is being "dishonest in the extreme" here.

No. But keep repeating yourself, maybe reality will change. Though I rather doubt it.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

You may disagree with Carter, but that's no more "support and endorsement" than Nixon "supported and endorsed" Mao.

Nixon? I didn't mention Nixon.

What's that called again when you attempt to extrapolate something I didn't say from what I did and attack that?

[Cleon]

Nixon? I didn't mention Nixon.

No...I did. :confused:


What's that called again when you attempt to extrapolate something I didn't say from what I did and attack that?

Well, seeing as how I didn't bring up Nixon to "attack" something you said/didn't say, the question is pretty silly.

[Marc39]

No, they're not, and insisting that they are over and over again won't make them so. They are attempts at opening a dialogue. You may disagree with Carter, but that's no more "support and endorsement" than Nixon "supported and endorsed" Mao.

A one-sided dialogue. It is morally outrageous for Carter to push for Hamas to be declared a legitimate member of the international community while not establishing preconditions with Hamas that they recognize Israel's right to exist and renounce violence.

[Marc39]

He did not specifically endorse and/or support Hamas, I didn't lie, and you certainly didn't catch me. Saying the same thing over and over again won't help your case any.



Now that's convincing! :rolleyes:

Carter pressuring Obama to strip Hamas of its terrorist classification when Hamas has not renounced terrorism is endorsing Hamas and supporting Hamas.

[Cleon]

Carter pressuring Obama to strip Hamas of its terrorist classification when Hamas has not renounced terrorism is endorsing Hamas and supporting Hamas.

No, no, it isn't.

[Marc39]

No, no, it isn't.

Oh, yes it most certainly is. Carter is using his prestige and influence with the Obama administration, as a former president of the United States, to try to, in effect, elevate the status of Hamas, a terrorist organization with a charter calling for annihilation of Israel and genocide of Jews, within the US State Dep't and in the international community. He's placing his personal stamp of approval on savages who shoot rockets into Israel specifically during the morning hours in order to try to hit school buses. It just doesn't get any worse than Hamas.

[Cleon]

Oh, yes it most certainly is.

Repeating it doesn't actually make it the case, y'know.

[Marc39]

Repeating it doesn't actually make it the case, y'know.

I know, but, following up with substance does.

[Cleon]

I know, but, following up with substance does.

Well, when you get around to that part, let me know.

[Marc39]

Well, when you get around to that part, let me know.

Already did--Whoosh right over your head!

[Cleon]

Already did--Whoosh right over your head!

No.

[jman19999]

I do.

I feel it every time I hear some right-wing commentator accuse me and other atheists of being Communist; every time I'm told by my father that "I don't believe in anything" because I no longer go to Mass; every time I have to keep my mouth shut while some religious or woo ass tells me that "science doesn't know everything" or that "evolution is just a theory" when what I really want to do is scream my head off in their face about how wrong they are; every time I read a church sign telling me how I deserved to be tortured for all eternity because I have the brains to see that there are no magic men who live in the sky.

I want to scream. I want act up. I knock the Creationist's teeth down their throats. I want to burn down their churches and temples and build brothels over the top of them. I want their holy books recycled into toilet paper.

But that's not the "nice" thing to do. That would only give them ammo to use against us. They have to whole damn culture on their side to condemn us while all we do is chatter amongst ourselves in our forums and freethought clubs. If anyone dares to speak out, even when using he most milquetoast of language, they're shouted down as being "militant"--EVEN BY OTHER SO-CALLED ATHEISTS!

I feel more than squashed, I feel suffocated.

So you'll forgive me for not being a fan of my theist neighbors.

Mark,

It's fine and cool if you want to be an atheist. No problem there. I admire your courage for standing up for your beliefs and for being an independent thinker. That's cool.

But why the anger and hatred against those who choose to practice religion? Why do you want to do harm to religious people? That's not cool. What would such violence accomplish? (Other than getting arrested and convicted for hate crimes?) Nothing positive could come out of this type of behavior.

Why can't you believe in what you want to believe and let other people believe what they want to believe?

It seems that your anti-religion anger is making you hurt, depressed, and anger all the time. You seem like a very cool, caring, and sensitive guy. But you might want to consider moving away from the anti-religious hate to finding something cool that you like to do. Your wargaming, writing, models, sci-fi shows/movies. You won't be able to change belief systems that are so embedded in certain people, so why even bother trying?

You can show pride in being an atheist. But IMO you're trying to be one man changing the world when their are Bible thumpers that aren't going to change. As an atheist, I'd say just don't listen to them and find some fun activities and friends that can make you happy, so that you'll feel less angry and stressed.

Jeff

[maxpower1227]

By your "logic," Nixon was a Maoist.

...you mean a Chouist? ;)

[Darth Rotor]

...you mean a Chouist? ;)

Or a Tungist.

(In those days, it was Mao Tse Tung rather than the "Mousy Dung" pronunciation we are now told is more correct.)

Between Tungist and the "chew and lie, " the Chinese suggest where to kiss and not tell, a bit different from the French. :eye-poppi

DR


(Chou En Lai -> chew and lie)

[Beerina]

I would argue that like all liberal or moderate or fundamentalist Christians, Carter is cherry picking and misquoting his holy book in a desperate attempt to white wash over the barbarism of a faith that he's either psychologically unable or politically unwilling to let go of.

Fixed it for you.

[lupus_in_fabula]

Pretty cool!