Managers 'petrified' by robbery training session

[Richard G]

This is truly horrifying.
Hugging the floor of the convenience store and cradling her head in her arms, Kristin Johnson waited to hear the click of the trigger.

One image seared her mind: Norfolk, Neb., where five people were killed last year in a bank massacre.

"My first thought was, 'Oh, my God, I am going to die.'"

But the terrorized Johnson wasn't physically injured. She and six other managers were unknowing participants in an armed-robbery training session organized by their employer, the Lincoln-based Gas 'N Shop convenience stores.
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=1638&u_sid=940982
These managers have got to be the stupidest people alive.

[BTox]

Sounds like a lawsuit in the making.

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by Richard G
This is truly horrifying.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=1638&u_sid=940982
These managers have got to be the stupidest people alive.

Screw the lawsuit, I would have sent them to the hospital in pieces if anyone would have pulled that kind of "training" on me.

[The Fool]

Whoevers Idea this was should be dismissed.... WTF were they thinking? Its only dumb luck that someone wasn't killed.

[Zep]

If it was RichardG on the receiving end, we would be pretty sure that the people who tried this stunt would NEVER EVER do it again, anywhere, any time, because he would have retaliated with a real weapon with the safety off and firing live rounds.

Oh dear.

Sorry, but this all just reinforces the "climate of fear" that seems to be being promoted throughout the USA.

[RPG Advocate]

If it was RichardG on the receiving end, we would be pretty sure that the people who tried this stunt would NEVER EVER do it again, anywhere, any time, because he would have retaliated with a real weapon with the safety off and firing live rounds.

Actually, Richard has it right (for once). These people are the stupidest people alive. If this "training session" took place in a CCW state¹, the risk of one of the "trainers" getting shot would be very high. And guess what, using armed force against purported armed robbers would be totally justified.

As for the "climate of fear", there is such a climate in many areas, especially poor neighborhoods. The crime rate is facutally higher in some neighborhoods than others. As such, I think that we should start from a default position of allowing all citizens to own firearms to defend themselves in those areas, then restricting those rights if and only if someone demonstrates an inability to use a firearm safely, either directly or by inference (such as a felon). To do otherwise is to needlessly abridge the rights of peaceful citizens.

_____________

¹ Not all states in the U.S. allow for concealed carry of a firearm, despite what some people on this board say.

[Zep]

Originally posted by RPG Advocate
Actually, Richard has it right (for once). These people are the stupidest people alive. If this "training session" took place in a CCW state¹, the risk of one of the "trainers" getting shot would be very high. And guess what, using armed force against purported armed robbers would be totally justified.

What about the justification and ramifications of "killing innocent people by mistake"?

As for the "climate of fear", there is such a climate in many areas, especially poor neighborhoods. The crime rate is facutally higher in some neighborhoods than others. As such, I think that we should start from a default position of allowing all citizens to own firearms to defend themselves in those areas, then restricting those rights if and only if someone demonstrates an inability to use a firearm safely, either directly or by inference (such as a felon). To do otherwise is to needlessly abridge the rights of peaceful citizens.

Like happens in Soweto?

[Leif Roar]

Originally posted by RPG Advocate


Actually, Richard has it right (for once). These people are the stupidest people alive. If this "training session" took place in a CCW state¹, the risk of one of the "trainers" getting shot would be very high. And guess what, using armed force against purported armed robbers would be totally justified.

Additionally, the presence of this kind of "training session" might well cause people to not take a real robbery serious. (There was a case in Norway a while ago where the shop-assistants threw out a masqueraded robber who showed up five minutes before the shop closed, because they thought it was some sort of drill and didn't want to have to work any overtime that day. In that case nobody got hurt, but that was really down to luck.)

[Cinorjer]

"Nebraska State Patrol Major Bryan Tuma said reality-based training is a widely accepted practice by law enforcement agencies."

This just seems wrong to me. Do we have any police out there who can verify this? By "reality based training" the quote is giving the impression that real police officers are tricked into staged situations that they believe are the real thing. Has any police officer had a gun waved in his face while on duty and thought he was being taken hostage only to be told later it was part of a training exercise? I highly doubt it.

This staged robbery was an absolutely stupid thing for the company to do, and the police who willingly helped should be fired. The terror the employees felt was real, not staged. They were, in fact, the victims of a violent crime. The fact that they only later found out it was their own employers who did this only adds to the element of betrayal. And of course, the potential for something to go wrong was always there.

[Andalyn]

I've been in law enforcement for nearly 14 years.

I'm in favor of "drilling" employees on proper response to armed robbery incidents - but with the knowledge that it is for training purposes.

I have found that at many convenience stores in my area - the clerk is undertrained and, in many circumstances - is unaware of where the panic alarm button is located. Security cameras are there many times just for show - with no power to the camera or tape system - yet the clerk thinks it is functional.

Clerks should be training on proper indentification techniques - including the basics of "who, what, when, where and how" of report writing.

Many of the robberies in our town have had the clerk killed by the robber - some lately have been execution style. This has been widely reported in our area.

That said - I think this "reality" training is not well thought out. If I were a clerk - with that knowledge - I'd fight back.

So - based on my experiences, I'd say that this is not a good idea, does not seem like training that has any merit (unless you want to scare people out of the job), and will probably only get someone hauled into court. I would assume that if the State Police of Nebraska is sponsoring this in some way - they may find themselves and the State in court as well.

Someone could very easily claim PTSD.

:)

[Cinorjer]

My wife worked at a gas station for a few years, and there was absolutely no training for what to do in the event of a robbery. She was simply told, "don't fight back, and lock the doors and call the police as soon as the robber leaves".

The security camera in this place was a joke. No one ever changed the tape in the VCR, so the one time they finally needed it, the thing was too worn out to show anything. Given what I see on the TV episodes about crime, that's normal. Come to think of it, the article said the people who planned this "training" ordered the camera be secretly shut off for the event. Why? Looking at the recording could be a great tool for comparing your memory against what actually happened. No, something just isn't right here.

[Reginald]

Maybe the footage could have been used if any of the "trainees" have or do decide to take the thing to court. It would be quite a case winner IMO to see the terror on their faces.

Training is good, but only if you know its training (in these circumstances).
If they are unaware, then you have just subjected them to a "real" robbery.

I can't say it could never happen here............give it three weeks.

[gnome]

Originally posted by Leif Roar


Additionally, the presence of this kind of "training session" might well cause people to not take a real robbery serious. (There was a case in Norway a while ago where the shop-assistants threw out a masqueraded robber who showed up five minutes before the shop closed, because they thought it was some sort of drill and didn't want to have to work any overtime that day. In that case nobody got hurt, but that was really down to luck.)

With the original post being tragic and outrageous... this story almost seems comical... I can even imagine a Monty Python sketch or something... bewildered robber being hustled out the door by employees having no idea he's serious and that his gun is loaded.

[Bentspoon]

Idiots:

Please correct me if I am wrong but isn't this the classic definition of assualt - with a deadly weapon no less. Perhaps if they had just recognized that, cooler heads would have prevailed.

It would be like those expedia.com commercials:

Let's see ...mmmmm... we could actually assault people in the training program

cut to scene where store employees are laying on the floor crying many defacating and urinating - a woman in fetal positin in the corner crying like a toodler

cut back to planning seesion: "Maybe we would be better issueing a pamphlet" Resoundung "OK!!!!!" follows from training team.

There should be a law that training cannot acutlaly break the law!!

Bentspoon