Encountered my first "Truther" today

[triforcharity]

Hi Guys and Gals of ForumLand!!

I just wanted to share my experience with you guys today. It was two-fold really. First I'll set the stage.

I walk into a 7-11 (convienence store) and see a guy with a "Resist the NWO" tshirt on. I am wearing a work shirt from FDNY 10 House that I own. (Ironic, I know, but its a confortable shirt, and I like it) I am with my wife, and we are going in to get slurpies for the kids.

I notice his shirt, but kinda ignore him, but have a little chuckle to myself. As I am getting my slurpie, the guy walks up to me, taps me on the sholder, and asks me, and I quote, "How does it feel to know that you have the blood of 3000 people on your hands??" WTF????????????? I about come unglued. But, I gotta be good, as I cannot get into trouble. I can't loose my job over this sub-human lifeform.

I tell him, under no uncertain terms, that he is a fool, and if he wants to continue this little conversation, we can go outside. He does'nt, at first. We (my wife and kids) get out stuff, and head out to the car. SUPRISE!! He is parked right next to us. AS we are getting into the truck, he procedes to call me a murderer, and all sorts of other things. We procede to argue about odds and ends (read: Typical truther BS) and I tell him I am leaving.

So, I get in my truck, and he STANDS BEHIND MY TRUCK!! My wife has this worried look on her face, because she knows I have a temper. ( Im Irish and Italian, what do you expect???) I get out of the truck, and tell him to go **** himself, and to move out of my way.

The guy stands there, like some kind of retarded statue. My wife caalls the cops, because every time I try to back up, he moves so I can't leave without hurting him. Cops come, and end up arresting the guy!!

Anyway, it kinda was funny in a way. The guy is a complete moron, and thinks that we are going to end up in happy little camps. I have to laugh at that. But, the saddest thing, and it really waas very emotional for me, is that he actually believes that the FDNY helped kill 343 of my Brothers.

It's sad really. To be so blatently disrespectfull to someone in a random place is just.......amazing.

I had to explain 9/11 to my 5 year old today. That sucked. Now my son wants to know more about it, and I don't know how to explain to him that there are people out there who want to hurt Americans because of who we are.

**** the truthers.

[Hokulele]

Just curious, how old was this guy?

[A W Smith]

I would have knocked him on his ass. in the store. right in front of everyone including the wife and kids. You have a lot more restraint then this Jersey City born Irishman

[Sam.I.Am]

What was he saying to the cops to get himself arrested?

[SmartyPants]

I applaud you on your self-discipline, although you would've been completely justified into goading him into taking the first punch.

[Simon39759]

I too must recommend you for your self-discipline. The ass-wipe wasn't worth getting into trouble anyway.

[cyclonic]

Sue him!

[AJM8125]

I've had a few face to face confrontations before, none remarkable or recent. But this guy apparently is mental, you did the right thing. Seems to me like the guy has a problem with firemen, probably someone who couldn't make the grade.

I'd find out where he lives and tell the boys at your local house to make sure they roll by his place and blast the horn whenever they take the truck out, day or night.

Hey, it's not as cruel as an ass whooping, now is it.

[triforcharity]

The guy MIGHT have been 25 or so. Not real old, or too bright.

The reason the guy got arrested was for two reasons. First, blocking me from leaving, in the state of Florida, is false inprisonment. A felony. The second, harassing a public servant. Not a felony, but just a simple misdemeanor.

I think he lives in the next neighborhood over. Might have to have a crusie by there sometime when we are out at 3 am. Nothing says good morning like 120 db. of airhorn.

Truse me, I wanted him to try and take first swing. But, he, like most "truthers" are all talk, and no braun.

[cyclonic]

I wonder if twoof lawyer Gregory Louis Hoover will defend him when he goes to court, he also lives in florida.

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/search/label/Gregory%20Louis%20Hoover

[JoeyDonuts]

Spanning wrench. Occipital lobe. End of story.

[CurtC]

It's interesting that the troothers' claims always seem to inferentially implicate the FDNY, but they always refrain from spelling it out. It's usually us who point out that if their beliefs are true, then the FDNY was responsible for murder, but we do that as a way to shut them up. After all, no one would accuse the FDNY of the murder of 3000 fellow citizens and 300 fellow firefighters, right?

I guess I was wrong about that - you found one crazy enough to say that. Best wishes on keeping far away from him.

[triforcharity]

I bet he will. Too bad they will most likely be cell mates.

I like the idea of the spanning wrench, but I had my kids there. If it wasn't for them, things might be different.

[tfk]

The guy MIGHT have been 25 or so. Not real old, or too bright.

The reason the guy got arrested was for two reasons. First, blocking me from leaving, in the state of Florida, is false inprisonment. A felony. The second, harassing a public servant. Not a felony, but just a simple misdemeanor.

I think he lives in the next neighborhood over. Might have to have a crusie by there sometime when we are out at 3 am. Nothing says good morning like 120 db. of airhorn.

Truse me, I wanted him to try and take first swing. But, he, like most "truthers" are all talk, and no braun.

A couple of things that I've learned over the years (having grown up in Boston)...

1. As soon as you sense the testosterone level rising, turn it into theater. Inside yourself. No emotional investment. No anger, no fear, no rage... Nothing. It's all just an act. That lets you stay detached & keep thinking.

2. If you really want to piss 'em off, just laugh. Genial, jovial, good natured laughter. You have to be a bit careful tho. Sometimes it works too well & they'll likely take a poke at you. When finishing up, a real hearty, really sincere laugh that transforms in about 1 second into just a stare is kinda cool.

3. This one works really well: When things are just about to get out of hand, and you can feel it's all on the knife edge, someone's about to take a swing ... smile. Not overdoing it. Just a real, genuine smile. It is so out of place to the situation that it's amazingly disconcerting. The other guy will think you're nuts, and really enjoy fighting.

You can get out of all kinds of pickles if the other guy thinks you're crazy.

Oh, yeah. Stay out of this sort of trouble. It just ain't worth it.

So, with your next truther, I'd recommend #1 & 2. See how bonkers you can drive him. Think of it as a game. If he ends up in jail, you win.

Sounds like you're 1 & 0 thus far.

Tom

PS. Or what JoeyD says...

[Dr. Lao]

I would have run him down, and blamed it on the "joos"

[boloboffin]

Guys, there's no point in advocating and contemplating violence, even cartoonish and not-ever-likely-to-happen violence.

But, WOW, what an idiot.

[triforcharity]

Idiot doesn't even come CLOSE to describing him.

I did give him credit to have the balls to call me a murderer. Usually it seems that when other truthers get together, they will always implicate FDNY, but it public???? HELL NO!! I gave him props for that. I also commented on the nice shiney new bracelets he aquired too!!

What does Red Forman from That 70's Show always say??? That pretty much sums it up!!

[Brainster]

The kid had more balls than brains, making that initial comment; although they quickly shrank down to pea size.

[JoeyDonuts]

Guys, there's no point in advocating and contemplating violence, even cartoonish and not-ever-likely-to-happen violence.

Not even if it makes an enormous onomatopoeic "BIFF?"

*puts away giant mallet*

[Mel Odious]

It's interesting that the troothers' claims always seem to inferentially implicate the FDNY, but they always refrain from spelling it out. It's usually us who point out that if their beliefs are true, then the FDNY was responsible for murder, but we do that as a way to shut them up. After all, no one would accuse the FDNY of the murder of 3000 fellow citizens and 300 fellow firefighters, right?

I guess I was wrong about that - you found one crazy enough to say that. Best wishes on keeping far away from him.


Here's another: Thread title - 911 victims Faces: NY's foulest at FDNY and NYPD (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74646)


These hundreds of faces are the citizens of New York City, that their comrades at the Fire House and the Police Station sold out.

The survivors allegedly got $1.8 million each to keep silent in the face of massive evidence that it was an inside job, inspired by the Jews that have infiltrated the US political and defense infrastructure.

Witness the many thousands of absentees on the day, the official NIST Report says there were only between 8,500 and 9,000 in the buildings when the strikes took place, and surmise the remainder of the eighty thousand souls who would normally have been there were Jews who stayed away warned!

Whose control of mainstream news gathering, ensures that only traitors who are happy with the status quo write the news.


The "hundreds of faces" are photos of the firefighters and police offers who died on September 11th.

Dispicable. Absolutely dispicable.

The scumbag who started that thread appears to have copied the photos in the post from Gravy's website. See here (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/whathasbecomeofthe%22truthmovement%22leaders) - scroll about halfway down to the bottom of the page. Same photos, same accompanying text, just one or two deleted photos.

[SezMe]

I too must recommend you for your self-discipline. The ass-wipe wasn't worth getting into trouble anyway.
What he said.

:th:

[A W Smith]

A couple of things that I've learned over the years (having grown up in Boston)...

1. As soon as you sense the testosterone level rising, turn it into theater. Inside yourself. No emotional investment. No anger, no fear, no rage... Nothing. It's all just an act. That lets you stay detached & keep thinking.

2. If you really want to piss 'em off, just laugh. Genial, jovial, good natured laughter. You have to be a bit careful tho. Sometimes it works too well & they'll likely take a poke at you. When finishing up, a real hearty, really sincere laugh that transforms in about 1 second into just a stare is kinda cool.

3. This one works really well: When things are just about to get out of hand, and you can feel it's all on the knife edge, someone's about to take a swing ... smile. Not overdoing it. Just a real, genuine smile. It is so out of place to the situation that it's amazingly disconcerting. The other guy will think you're nuts, and really enjoy fighting.

You can get out of all kinds of pickles if the other guy thinks you're crazy.

Oh, yeah. Stay out of this sort of trouble. It just ain't worth it.

So, with your next truther, I'd recommend #1 & 2. See how bonkers you can drive him. Think of it as a game. If he ends up in jail, you win.

Sounds like you're 1 & 0 thus far.

Tom


Or you could let Darwin do his work. see my post above

[R.Mackey]

I'm sure you already figured this out, but some of those guys want you to throw that punch. They're begging for it. This is why they hassle elected officials and celebrities. They want the scandal and the exposure. They want the fame and ultimately donations, if not grounds for another BS lawsuit. Don't give it to them.

You did good.

[AJM8125]

Here's another: Thread title - 911 victims Faces: NY's foulest at FDNY and NYPD (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74646)





The "hundreds of faces" are photos of the firefighters and police offers who died on September 11th.

Dispicable. Absolutely dispicable.

The scumbag who started that thread appears to have copied the photos in the post from Gravy's website. See here (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/whathasbecomeofthe%22truthmovement%22leaders) - scroll about halfway down to the bottom of the page. Same photos, same accompanying text, just one or two deleted photos.

I'm sorry, it is truly dispicable but at the same time, I'm laughing my fool head off. 80,000 people?!!1? How the hell do you keep that a secret? They were all in on it? I can see the conference now:

"Look, vhat do I know from anything, I just know vhat they're tellin me. Stay home tomorra, don't come anyvhere near here. Go to Sual's and have a nice corned beef, maybe take a drive to the catskills. You maybe should go see your Ma down in Florida? She's not getting any younger, you know. Oh and listen, when you come back your office will be a pile of rubble and we'll relocate you somewhere nice, you like California? You're a good kid, do me a favor: on your way out stop by Silverstein's office and tell him I said 'Pull THIS.' See ya Wednesday."

I hear it voiced by Mel Brooks.

[SmartyPants]

Too bad your kids were around. I always enjoy a good verbal thrashing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFf-buObxl8).

[alienentity]

That's just u-n-r-e-a-l. This 9/11 'truth' thing seems to be attracting every manner of borderline personality and nitwit.

I wish truthers knew what you guys really think of them. I'm glad you didn't run him over though - it might've put a scratch on your bumper...not worth it.

[eromitlab]

Why do I get the feeling that Alex Jones will talk about this on his radio show today, completely misrepresenting the situation of course. "9/11 truther arrested for exercising his First Amendment right telling people about the inside jobby job!"


Here's another: Thread title - 911 victims Faces: NY's foulest at FDNY and NYPD (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74646)





The "hundreds of faces" are photos of the firefighters and police offers who died on September 11th.

Dispicable. Absolutely dispicable.

The scumbag who started that thread appears to have copied the photos in the post from Gravy's website. See here (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/whathasbecomeofthe%22truthmovement%22leaders) - scroll about halfway down to the bottom of the page. Same photos, same accompanying text, just one or two deleted photos.

The stain on the underwear of life that posted that posts frequently on reddit under the name rathbone. http://www.reddit.com/user/Rathbone/
Blames basically everything that's ever happened on the Jews, Israel and/or Mossad, Holocaust denier, also trying to push some tripe about Martin Luther King and Coretta Scott King being somehow involved in JFK's assassination (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1148405&posted=1#post1148405).
Also, left this comment on reddit in one of his many submissions of his "hundreds of faces" post, in response to a poster who dropped many f-bombs on his insight:
You can use the "F" word as much as you like.. however when I see a New York policeman or fireman, I know that I am looking at a cowardly treacherous dog in human form..

OK so we are dealing with a capital offense which is what the 911 attack was.. anticipate many many firemen and police swingin' by their necks hanged come the day of justice, convicted of capital conspiracy.


A truly despicable individual, even by 9/11 truther standards. Naturally, the guy lives half a world away and wouldn't dream of walking into a FDNY firehouse or NYPD station with his insight and evidence.

[JoeyDonuts]

Hope he's never in the Five Boroughs and gets caught in an accident. He'd have to be rescued by those "treacherous dogs."

Which they would do without a moment's hesitation or regard for his political leanings.

I'm sure it'd be lost on him though.

[Scott Sommers]

Do I understand you correctly? He called you a murderer because he thought you were a firefighter?

[Juniversal]

Do I understand you correctly? He called you a murderer because he thought you were a firefighter?He IS a fire fighter and the "Truther" called him a murderer because in 9/11 "Truth" land FDNY was in on the conspiracy.

[Sam.I.Am]

Do I understand you correctly? He called you a murderer because he thought you were a firefighter?

Pretty much because he had on a FDNY t-shirt. Some of these people are truly insane and need some medical help. The rest are in it for the money I think.

Go look at a truther website and you'll see them selling t-shirts, DVDs and books. Go to one of the truther debunking websites and most don't even have ads selling anything at all. Not even generic banner ads to cover bandwidth. To me that's quite telling.

[Scott Sommers]

I'm new to all this and this is really creepy. And those guys can buy guns?

[Dave Rogers]

I applaud you on your self-discipline, although you would've been completely justified into goading him into taking the first punch.

Absolutely agree. He did all he could to try to goad you, and you responded with dignity and restraint. I'm glad to hear the police took him away; this was blatant harrassment, clear and simple, and by keeping your cool you left no possible doubt who was at fault.

Explaining 9/11 to a five-year-old is tough enough, but explaining why the mad person called Daddy horrible names must be damned near impossible.

Dave

[I_Gaze_At_The_Blue]

I also congratulate you on your self-restraint ...

So, how often does this kind of thing happen to members of the FDNY and other First Responder groups ???

I am from Scotland so never see this type of despicable event ... but do know many people whom have served as Emergency personnel.

And have found that the men and women whom join ANY of the Emergency Services ... such as Fire Brigade, Ambulance, Coast Guard, Lifeboat or Mountain Rescue are usually people of high morale, principle and compassion.

These types of service are usually LOW-PAID with some of them being wholly volunteer services (here in the UK ... not too sure about the US, though) ... meaning they receive no financial reward for this work ... on numerous occasions risking their own lives to help others.

They do it because they have a high regard for others and their lives ... and a well-developed awareness of duty and honour.

It is not "just" a job ... it is a VOCATION and COMMITMENT to preserve the sanctity of life.

To believe that they could "easily" be bought off somehow and be willingly involved in some sort of cover-up is DEMEANING to them as a group of humane and caring human beings and INSULTING to their rationale and integrity.

So many people went far above the call of duty that day ...

They saw horrors and pain that should dissolve a weaker spirit ...

Yet they endured willingly !!!

Despite losing so much themselves they "still" to this day, as a GROUP have not given credence to the so-called Truther Movement.

That ALONE speaks volumes ...

So ... to ANYONE whom believes or suspects that these men and women whom paid the ultimate price, and their families, friends and collegues whom continue to feel pain and grief ... have in anyway been involved in murdering their fellow and foreign citizens ...

... May you live in disgrace for the rest of your lives !!! ...

[T.A.M.]

Angry Young Man at his finest....idiot.

Well done triforcharity. You handled it perfectly.

TAM:)

[tfk]

Or you could let Darwin do his work. see my post above
.
"Sometimes the gene pool needs a little chlorine."

[Björn Toulouse]

....The guy is a complete moron, and thinks that we are going to end up in happy little camps.....


Hope he enjoyed his visit to his local "happy little camp". I wonder if anyone will be able to spot him on a message board after he is released when he tells his version of the incident. If anyone does, please link it here.

[njslim]

Scroll down to next poster

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74646

Its our buddy Christophera!

Nice to know still hanging out with lunatic fringe after getting boot here

[njslim]

Just thought of another thing - there are no DRUG CHARGES on this losers rap sheet

Usually when get busted cops find marijuana or similar controlled substances on them

[Drudgewire]

I notice his shirt, but kinda ignore him, but have a little chuckle to myself. As I am getting my slurpie, the guy walks up to me, taps me on the sholder, and asks me, and I quote, "How does it feel to know that you have the blood of 3000 people on your hands??" WTF?????????????


Drudge's response: "Touch me again and it will be 3,001, dingleberry." http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/clint.gif

[kookbreaker]

I'm new to all this and this is really creepy. And those guys can buy guns?

Yes, but fortunately they can only manage to shoot themselves in the foot.

[Comsat Angel]

I salute teh awesome Ninja Self-Restraint Skills on display!

Re: the no-signs-of-illegal-drugs post - pockets probably full of prescription meds.

[Justin39640]

I salute teh awesome Ninja Self-Restraint Skills on display!

Re: the no-signs-of-illegal-drugs post - pockets probably full of prescription meds.

of the large group of potheads i know only 1 is a hardcore truther and 1 has mumbled a thing or 2 about the pentagon
the rest point and laugh at them (lethargically lol)

[JoeyDonuts]

the rest point and laugh at them (lethargically lol)

Let's be honest here.

They'd point and laugh at just about anything after a few bowls.

[alexi_drago]

Take his photo and tell him the NWO be organising a little get together.

[jhunter1163]

Talking into your watch can be effective too.

[Lupie]

Wow,

You showed some admirable restraint. The name calling wouldn't have bothered me really, but when he physically prevented you from leaving, I would probably have lost my temper at that point (I'm Irish too). You handled the situation perfectly. Like Mackey said, many of these people WANT someone to get into a physical altercation with them. Sad.

L.

[triforcharity]

If it waasn't for the fact that I love my job, I might have reacted differently. But, because I love helping others, and get no bigger joy out of my life, I walked away. Had I been drinking, I don't know if I would have done the same.

But, anyway, I wouldn't stoop to his level. Plus, I can't get my head that far up HIS posterier, so I wouldn't dare try.

[Grizzly Bear]

I just talked about this in another thread, but I've met three people so far... though because of their interpretations I don't know if I can actually call them "truther" by any definition... I'm glad I haven't met a real radical kook yet, I'd rather not deal with the crazies....

[Magenta]

If it waasn't for the fact that I love my job, I might have reacted differently. But, because I love helping others, and get no bigger joy out of my life, I walked away. Had I been drinking, I don't know if I would have done the same.


The black-shirt sounds like he is worryingly unhinged from reality: aggressively accosting a stranger and accusing them of mass murder is not the action of a rational person. I can see how personal this must be for you, how infuriating it is to hear such BS, and how tempting it would be to take matters into your own hands but I think MrsTriforcharity did the right thing to call the police when she did.

[Lupie]

If it waasn't for the fact that I love my job, I might have reacted differently. But, because I love helping others, and get no bigger joy out of my life, I walked away. Had I been drinking, I don't know if I would have done the same.

But, anyway, I wouldn't stoop to his level. Plus, I can't get my head that far up HIS posterier, so I wouldn't dare try.

I've read many of your posts here. Your love of, and dedication to your job is easy to see. It would have been a crying shame to lose all that over this moron. You handled the situation perfectly.

L.

[triforcharity]

The black-shirt sounds like he is worryingly unhinged from reality: aggressively accosting a stranger and accusing them of mass murder is not the action of a rational person. I can see how personal this must be for you, how infuriating it is to hear such BS, and how tempting it would be to take matters into your own hands but I think MrsTriforcharity did the right thing to call the police when she did.

Mrs. Tri was worried that I would end up in prison for life if I got out of that truck. Can't be having that now, can we?? Of course not.

Now, how frustrating is it?? Not really, but very infuriating, and very emotional. the things I saaw and witness that day, nobody should have to go through. Ever. But, I am better person today because of it.

[FineWine]

Mrs. Tri was worried that I would end up in prison for life if I got out of that truck. Can't be having that now, can we?? Of course not.

Now, how frustrating is it?? Not really, but very infuriating, and very emotional. the things I saaw and witness that day, nobody should have to go through. Ever. But, I am better person today because of it.


You were correct to defuse an obvious attempt to goad you into violence. Remember that these morons know nothing. Keep them in front of as large a crowd as you can assemble and ask them to explain themselves. Ask him how you murdered over three hundred of your brothers. Ask him if the Islamofascists exist. Ask him how he happens to know more than the structural engineers and demolition experts.

These despicable idiots can shout slogans, but they can't think. Force them to present a coherent case.

[Comrade Raptor]

of the large group of potheads i know only 1 is a hardcore truther and 1 has mumbled a thing or 2 about the pentagon
the rest point and laugh at them (lethargically lol)

I have a cousin who smokes a lot of pot and is actually, genuinely, seriously nuts. I mean paranoid nuts. Literally. He has the inside of his ball cap lined with foil to keep the government from stealing his "million dollar ideas" and believes the entire town is in on a giant conspiracy to make sure he never gets anywhere in life. I am not joking, that's straight-up truth. He was always a little "off" but had an accident that left him even more odd.

And you know what?

Even HE thinks troofers are crazy.

[njslim]

He has the inside of his ball cap lined with foil to keep the government from stealing his "million dollar ideas"

Ever consider making more of these and selling them at truther rallies? Make a fortune!

[Comrade Raptor]

That might be true, but then I'd be forced to admit he actually did manage to come up with a million dollar idea. LOL.

[nicepants]

Hi Guys and Gals of ForumLand!!

I just wanted to share my experience with you guys today. It was two-fold really. First I'll set the stage.

I applaud your excellent handling of the situation. It must have been hard not to take a swing at this idiot or just keep on driving when he got in the way of your car.

Glad to hear he was arrested. Is he being charged?

I wonder if his beliefs are strong enough that he'd be willing to share them with all of the guys on duty down at the firehouse....

(if he does, please videotape)

[boloboffin]

Just count your lucky stars that this is the first time in eight years that you've ever encountered a 9/11 conspiracy advocate face to face. I would have thought you'd have run across one years ago in New York, but life is a strange thing.

[Caustic Logic]

I just wanted to weigh in here. As the others say, nice restraint, Triforcharity. A solid slug would have been absolutely justified, and I hope the Judge would agree. Perhaps wiser you didn't, ethically it's a toss-up... some people can benefit from a little jolt like that, like a glass of cold water and suddenly he's like "whoah, I'm doing it again, aren't I?"

You probably have run into Truthers many times before and just didn't know it. No one I know, while sane, would start accusing a random firefighter of murder, even if they believed in CDs. Where in the hell does that charge stem from anyways, Fire chief "pulling it" or something more substantial?

The main thing here is you ran into a crazy person. Probably also not a first, but the combo effect ... I wish certain people would stop telling crazy people stupid and dangerous things, and I wish crazy people could find a little sanity and peace.

[Eyeron]

I'm fortunate. The only run in with these cultists are on internet web forums. If it weren't for the internet these guys would have no voice at all.

[DGM]

I had to explain 9/11 to my 5 year old today. That sucked. Now my son wants to know more about it, and I don't know how to explain to him that there are people out there who want to hurt Americans because of who we are.


This can be hard. My son was 3 at the time and his preschool teacher recommended not letting him see any of the news and basically shield him from the event. I thought this was wrong and explained everything and answered all of his questions. I have to say I was surprised how well he absorbed the information. I think he thought, as long a dad was comfortable so should he be. 8 years later he has no problems understanding world events and often explains things like this to his friends. In retrospect, I wouldn't have done anything different

[Thunder]

Hi Guys and Gals of ForumLand!!

I just wanted to share my experience with you guys today. It was two-fold really. First I'll set the stage. .

More power to you brother. All the respect in the world from Queens, NY.

[triforcharity]

I applaud your excellent handling of the situation. It must have been hard not to take a swing at this idiot or just keep on driving when he got in the way of your car.

Glad to hear he was arrested. Is he being charged?

I wonder if his beliefs are strong enough that he'd be willing to share them with all of the guys on duty down at the firehouse....

(if he does, please videotape)

I would be the God of YouTube if I got that on video. Especially since two of the guys at my station specifically are from NYC, as am I. The hillarity that would ensue would be breathtaking.

Now, he is being charged with a felony, and a misdemeanor. He is still in jail under no bail, as the judge deamed him a threat to the community. So, they gave him no bond. Yay!! The guy needs to be off the street.




Just count your lucky stars that this is the first time in eight years that you've ever encountered a 9/11 conspiracy advocate face to face. I would have thought you'd have run across one years ago in New York, but life is a strange thing.

Isn't it though?? I go to GZ every year to pay my respects, and have not ONCE been accosted by those rbowl movements. I think it is because I stop by 10 house, (My old station) and meet up with a bunch of the guys from FDNY, and go down as a group. They typically won't bother a bunch of us, but if you are caught alone?? Forget it, its all over, so to speak.

[Drudgewire]

Now, he is being charged with a felony, and a misdemeanor. He is still in jail under no bail, as the judge deamed him a threat to the community.


The NWO strikes again. Beers all around. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/cheers.gif

[deep]

Now, he is being charged with a felony, and a misdemeanor. He is still in jail under no bail, as the judge deamed him a threat to the community. So, they gave him no bond. Yay!! The guy needs to be off the street.


What's his name?

[portlandatheist]

moved to different thread

[funk de fino]

What's his name?

moron

[njslim]

Isn't it though?? I go to GZ every year to pay my respects, and have not ONCE been accosted by those rbowl movements. I think it is because I stop by 10 house, (My old station) and meet up with a bunch of the guys from FDNY, and go down as a group. They typically won't bother a bunch of us, but if you are caught alone?? Forget it, its all over, so to speak.

When I'm in NYC go to TEN house and look at bronze plaque on wall - silently reading off
the names. A family member of a member of our department is there - was in command
of LADDER 11 that day Died with entire crew in WTC 3 when towers collapsed on it

So far haven't seen any of these clowns . Do run into their stickers plastered around

Hope he's enjoying the view.....

[Stellafane]

What's his name?

He probably responds to "Sweetheart" at the moment.

[triforcharity]

Deep, that is a baited question.

First off, I will not post his name on here. Why you ask?? Because its just not right. You could go get HIS record, get that FOIA request put in, and get my name. I am NOT that stupid!! Der. Plus, he doesn't need to be slandered by name all over the interwebs. I have a LITTLE more respect for people than that. Especially since this is a person matter.

But, because I won't post his name, I will be accused of lying, and making all this up, blah blah, blah.

The NWO strikes again. Beers all around. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/cheers.gif

TOO FUNNY!!!

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h131/triathlete247/cheers.gif
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h131/triathlete247/cheers.gif
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h131/triathlete247/cheers.gif

[Walter Ego]

I went out of my way last year to encounter (and videotape) some local truthers.... all three of them. The experience was interesting if slightly frustrating.

I actually liked David, the senior member of the group.

mnUiZG0uEb0

Josh, the young man, was a little creepy and Sarah, the young girl, was entertainingly loopy.

She wasn't too pleased when the videos turned up on You Tube, however. :eek:

(Caution: NSFW language.)

4izUFafakmg

[T.A.M.]

How exactly were you filming them "illegally"?

She is priceless. you are right, entertaining in the "village idiot" sort of way.

TAM:)

[deep]

Deep, that is a baited question.

First off, I will not post his name on here. Why you ask?? Because its just not right. You could go get HIS record, get that FOIA request put in, and get my name. I am NOT that stupid!! Der. Plus, he doesn't need to be slandered by name all over the interwebs. I have a LITTLE more respect for people than that. Especially since this is a person matter.

But, because I won't post his name, I will be accused of lying, and making all this up, blah blah, blah.


I'm asking because I can't find anyone who was arrested for false imprisonment in Brevard county on 7/26 (or 7/25, or 7/27).

[Mr. Skinny]

I'm asking because I can't find anyone who was arrested for false imprisonment in Brevard county on 7/26 (or 7/25, or 7/27).
Deep, who said he was arrested for false imprisonment?

Maybe I missed it somewhere in the thread.

[AJM8125]

Deep, who said he was arrested for false imprisonment?

Maybe I missed it somewhere in the thread.

Post #9.

[Hokulele]

I'm asking because I can't find anyone who was arrested for false imprisonment in Brevard county on 7/26 (or 7/25, or 7/27).


How do you know the arrest took place in Brevard county?

[deep]

Deep, who said he was arrested for false imprisonment?

Maybe I missed it somewhere in the thread.


It was triforcharity (bolding mine):

The guy MIGHT have been 25 or so. Not real old, or too bright.

The reason the guy got arrested was for two reasons. First, blocking me from leaving, in the state of Florida, is false inprisonment. A felony. The second, harassing a public servant. Not a felony, but just a simple misdemeanor.

(post continues)

Now, he is being charged with a felony, and a misdemeanor. He is still in jail under no bail, as the judge deamed him a threat to the community. So, they gave him no bond. Yay!! The guy needs to be off the street.


The second quote (obviously) just re-affirms that it was a felony & misdemeanor.

[AJM8125]

And would arrests be made a matter of public record that quickly? Seriously, I don't know.

[triforcharity]

AJM,

In Brevard County, arrests are made public pretty quick, depending on the site you use.

Deep,
Too bad it wasn't Brevard County, just as Hokulele said. And no, before you go and "just ask questions" I will not let his name get out. Like I said, I have a little more common sense than that. Deep, you're not going to get me to post his arresting county here. He is in enough trouble all on his own, he doesn't need to be trashed on the internet by me or anyone else. Plus, like I said before, I value my privacy. Especially from the likes of the TM. I don't trust those people.

[SmartyPants]

I went out of my way last year to encounter (and videotape) some local truthers.... all three of them. The experience was interesting if slightly frustrating.

I actually liked David, the senior member of the group.

mnUiZG0uEb0

Josh, the young man, was a little creepy and Sarah, the young girl, was entertainingly loopy.

She wasn't too pleased when the videos turned up on You Tube, however. :eek:

(Caution: NSFW language.)


4izUFafakmg

Interesting. I'm sure Sarah's other arguments are very compelling.

90% of these people are under 25. What's it like if you're the other 10%, and the under 25's are your main peer group? I've always wondered how Alex Jones feels about always hanging out with people he must consider kids. I bet he feels a lot like Matthew McConaughey's character in "Dazed and Confused."

[deep]

Deep,
Too bad it wasn't Brevard County, just as Hokulele said. And no, before you go and "just ask questions" I will not let his name get out. Like I said, I have a little more common sense than that. Deep, you're not going to get me to post his arresting county here. He is in enough trouble all on his own, he doesn't need to be trashed on the internet by me or anyone else. Plus, like I said before, I value my privacy. Especially from the likes of the TM. I don't trust those people.


Tri: I have multiple reasons to believe that you live in Brevard county. If you want me to post all of those reasons (including the city), that's fine, but my goal here isn't to invade your privacy, or make this personal in any way.

Now, consider another one of your comments from earlier in this thread (bolding mine):

I think he lives in the next neighborhood over. Might have to have a crusie by there sometime when we are out at 3 am. Nothing says good morning like 120 db. of airhorn.


So you ran into someone from the "next neighborhood over" at a 7/11.. in another county. Not impossible, but given the abundance of 7/11 stores in your area, can you at least understand why I'm skeptical?

Would you consider sending me a PM with his name? Then I can confirm it, and nobody else will know who he is.

[triforcharity]

No, I will not PM you his name. Like I said, I value my privacy, as any FOIA request would garner his name.

I do in fact live in Brevard County. I live in Melbourne to be exact. I have no problem admitting that.

I can certainly understand why you arae skeptical. But, given the TM's tendacy to try to harass and generally make themselves an annoyance, I will not be giving out any information that could lead to my identity being revealed here, or in any other forum. Sorry, won't do it. I don't trust many people in this world. This very much includes anyone in the TM or onces that believe that 9/11 was an inside job. I just don't trust them. You say that you are not trying to make this personal, but it is VERY personal to me. You have no understanding how PERSONAL this is to me.

The station that I work is very near another county. Given the rural area that it is, I know most of the people that live there. Its a pretty small community, and they are pretty tight nit. I travel often with my family, and many times travel to Volusia county to visit family and friends. I even take the boat out of Ponce DeLeon inlet sometimes.

So, in conclusion, I will not be giving you any other information than I already have.

Feel free to speculate all you want.

[RedIbis]

Tri: I have multiple reasons to believe that you live in Brevard county. If you want me to post all of those reasons (including the city), that's fine, but my goal here isn't to invade your privacy, or make this personal in any way.

Now, consider another one of your comments from earlier in this thread (bolding mine):




So you ran into someone from the "next neighborhood over" at a 7/11.. in another county. Not impossible, but given the abundance of 7/11 stores in your area, can you at least understand why I'm skeptical?

Would you consider sending me a PM with his name? Then I can confirm it, and nobody else will know who he is.

I guess I'm not the only one who smells a work.

[Pantaz]

I guess I'm not the only one who smells a work.
Wow, do you see conspiracy in everything?

If the story was completely fictitious, what would be the point? He is simply relating a personal experience.

If his encounter had been with a religious zealot, would you have even commented?

[~enigma~]

Wow, do you see conspiracy in everything?

If the story was completely fictitious, what would be the point? He is simply relating a personal experience.

If his encounter had been with a religious zealot, would you have even commented?
Bet trio's entire worldview is shattered now that deep and red are calling him a liar...

[RedIbis]

Wow, do you see conspiracy in everything?

If the story was completely fictitious, what would be the point? He is simply relating a personal experience.

If his encounter had been with a religious zealot, would you have even commented?

Who said anything about a conspiracy? You don't think that people exaggerate or tell stories on anonymous internet forums?

The point would be to rile up the rabble, get them to boast about how they would slug out the twoofie, and then some virtual locker room backslapping can ensue.

On a skeptic's forum, I would expect that a few basic questions would be asked to verify the story, but I don't want to spoil anyone's fun.

[jhunter1163]

Tri explained, in post 82, why it is that he doesn't want to disclose any more information than he already has, and I understand completely. If some Twoofer tracked him down and started harassing him outside the calming influence of Mrs. Tri, there might be a Buzz Aldrin moment, and we don't want that.*

* - Unless, of course, there's video.

[RedIbis]

Tri explained, in post 82, why it is that he doesn't want to disclose any more information than he already has, and I understand completely. If some Twoofer tracked him down and started harassing him outside the calming influence of Mrs. Tri, there might be a Buzz Aldrin moment, and we don't want that.*

* - Unless, of course, there's video.

He also said that the guy was charged with a felony and being held without bail. As I understand it there are legal experts who frequent this sub forum, so maybe they can chime in with whether or not a witness' name would be included in the public record of the arrest and the filing of the charges.

I don't think Tri explained what the felony charge was. I live in Florida and don't think standing behind someone's car and being obnoxious is a felony. Of course I could be wrong, and if I am, it shouldn't be hard for Tri to provide the specific info detailing this guy's arrest and the charges brought against him.

[~enigma~]

He also said that the guy was charged with a felony and being held without bail. As I understand it there are legal experts who frequent this sub forum, so maybe they can chime in with whether or not a witness' name would be included in the public record of the arrest and the filing of the charges.

I don't think Tri explained what the felony charge was. I live in Florida and don't think standing behind someone's car and being obnoxious is a felony. Of course I could be wrong, and if I am, it shouldn't be hard for Tri to provide the specific info detailing this guy's arrest and the charges brought against him.
Does it hurt that right on the heels of the massive failure of NYCCAN that a non-truther has knowledge of something you never will?

[jhunter1163]

He also said that the guy was charged with a felony and being held without bail. As I understand it there are legal experts who frequent this sub forum, so maybe they can chime in with whether or not a witness' name would be included in the public record of the arrest and the filing of the charges.

I don't think Tri explained what the felony charge was. I live in Florida and don't think standing behind someone's car and being obnoxious is a felony. Of course I could be wrong, and if I am, it shouldn't be hard for Tri to provide the specific info detailing this guy's arrest and the charges brought against him.

See post #9. Preventing someone from leaving, in Florida, is false imprisonment, which is a felony. I don't know if Tri's name would appear in any of the charges against this guy, but Tri has apparently chosen to err on the side of caution and not take the chance of revealing his own identity. And, given that Tri has already been harassed by a Twoofer once, this seems like a reasonable precaution.

[triforcharity]

A simple FOIA request for such and such's name and arrest date would garner the arrest report, which would include the victims name. The victim, being me. I will not disclose anything that could very easily be used to identify me. I feel comfortable telling you that I live in Melbourne, as Melbourne has a residency of about 90,000 people.

Now, RedIbis,

If I really wanted to say that I punched a guy out, why would I post that I got in my truck and attempted to leave?? Wouldn't most people label me a chicken?? That would be my guess. But, as my faather would always tell me; "It takes a boy to fight, but a man to walk away."

Bet trio's entire worldview is shattered now that deep and red are calling him a liar...

I am crying on my wife's shoulder as we speak. :rolleyes:

Red, here is the Fl Statue for false imprisonment.

787.02 False imprisonment; false imprisonment of child under age 13, aggravating circumstances.--

(1)(a) The term "false imprisonment" means forcibly, by threat, or secretly confining, abducting, imprisoning, or restraining another person without lawful authority and against her or his will.

(2) A person who commits the offense of false imprisonment is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.


RedIbis, a simple google search will yeild the site I got this from.

[deep]

So, in conclusion, I will not be giving you any other information than I already have.

Feel free to speculate all you want.


Well, I've been looking for a 7/26 arrest for false imprisonment in the counties that border Brevard, but can't find one (let alone false imprisonment + harassment).

I still have two or three counties left to check.

[jhunter1163]

Deep, I'm not sure why you have such a need to confirm Tri's story, but you should be aware that posting personal information here is grounds for banning.

Just sayin'.

[RedIbis]

A simple FOIA request for such and such's name and arrest date would garner the arrest report, which would include the victims name. The victim, being me. I will not disclose anything that could very easily be used to identify me. I feel comfortable telling you that I live in Melbourne, as Melbourne has a residency of about 90,000 people.

Now, RedIbis,

If I really wanted to say that I punched a guy out, why would I post that I got in my truck and attempted to leave?? Wouldn't most people label me a chicken?? That would be my guess. But, as my faather would always tell me; "It takes a boy to fight, but a man to walk away."



I am crying on my wife's shoulder as we speak. :rolleyes:

Red, here is the Fl Statue for false imprisonment.

787.02 False imprisonment; false imprisonment of child under age 13, aggravating circumstances.--

(1)(a) The term "false imprisonment" means forcibly, by threat, or secretly confining, abducting, imprisoning, or restraining another person without lawful authority and against her or his will.

(2) A person who commits the offense of false imprisonment is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.


RedIbis, a simple google search will yeild the site I got this from.

I won't get into a back and forth with you on this. Protecting your identity is something I certainly support and wouldn't expect you to disclose in the slightest.

Still, this is a skeptics forum, and your story should be subject to the same civil and friendly discussion as any other topic. If what you say is true that your name would be included in the arrest report, I apologize for suggesting that details about the guy's arrest should be posted.

I can understand if you don't want to continue discussing the veracity of your story, but if you don't then this is probably in the wrong forum. Secondly, posting the statute for false imprisonment is hardly evidence that this is what the guy was charged with.

[deep]

Deep, I'm not sure why you have such a need to confirm Tri's story, but you should be aware that posting personal information here is grounds for banning.

Just sayin'.


I have absolutely zero interest in Tri's personal information - he's the one who keeps mentioning that, not me. You'll notice that I didn't even want to post which city he lives in.

All I want to see is some evidence to support his rather remarkable story - a newspaper article, a mugshot, an arrest report, an iPhone video of the guy standing behind his truck, etc.

[T.A.M.]

I have absolutely zero interest in Tri's personal information - he's the one who keeps mentioning that, not me. You'll notice that I didn't even want to post which city he lives in.

All I want to see is some evidence to support his rather remarkable story - a newspaper article, a mugshot, an arrest report, an iPhone video of the guy standing behind his truck, etc.

Any suggestions as to how he can do this without reveal his identity or that of the person in question? If not, given he wants to reveal neither, perhaps you should let it go.

If you have suggestions as to how he could satisfy you without revealing his identity or this other fellows, now and here would be the time and place.

TAM:)

[OneRedEye]

What if there are no arrests for false imprisonment anywhere in Florida for the entire week?

[Hokulele]

What if there are no arrests for false imprisonment anywhere in Florida for the entire week?


Then it proves that 9/11 was an inside jobbity-job!!!11!1!!!

[Alzke]

BS meter pegged on this one..

Edited for personal attack. Please review your membership agreement.

[AJM8125]

Something y'all should consider too is this incident was, no offense intended, nothing more than a public disturbance in a parking lot, something you really do see a lot of, at least in my City. It seems to me that any public defender worth a damn would get this guy's charges reduced or even dropped. Thus the original police report would be retracted and... Huh? ... umm, not that I'd know anything about this kind of stuff, just a guess.


:whistling

[T.A.M.]

BS meter pegged on this one..

Edited for personal attack. Please review your membership agreement.!

I dunno what to say to that. Are you trying to insult this man (tri) and if so, why? Do you have any proof he is an arsonist? if not, why would you say such a thing, or do you consider volunteer firefighters to be arsonists.

I cannot tell, besides being intentionally insulting to a member of this forum (a violation of your member agreement), why you posted this?

TAM

[Mr.Herbert]

BS meter pegged on this one..

Edited for personal attack. Please review your membership agreement.!


Reported.

[triforcharity]

What if there are no arrests for false imprisonment anywhere in Florida for the entire week?

Than you obviously have no idea how certain counties work. Some counties don't post their arrest records online. So, without actually going to the county and requesting a search, and paying the fee, you won't get very far.

[AJM8125]

Reported.

ditto

[triforcharity]

I won't get into a back and forth with you on this. Protecting your identity is something I certainly support and wouldn't expect you to disclose in the slightest.

Still, this is a skeptics forum, and your story should be subject to the same civil and friendly discussion as any other topic. If what you say is true that your name would be included in the arrest report, I apologize for suggesting that details about the guy's arrest should be posted.

I can understand if you don't want to continue discussing the veracity of your story, but if you don't then this is probably in the wrong forum. Secondly, posting the statute for false imprisonment is hardly evidence that this is what the guy was charged with.

Thank you RedIbis, you get a little bit of respect back for this. I have even gone so far as to have my address removed from the paramedic licensing's website. My privacy is something I value very much. I appreciate you respecting that.

I will be contacting the SAO to figure out what is going on tomorrow morning. If I can, I will post a sanitized report from them. Lord knows there won't be much but the statement from me and the officer. Not much else.


It looks like Deep has gone and got some friends to back him up.....How cute............

[Slayhamlet]

What if there are no arrests for false imprisonment anywhere in Florida for the entire week?

Since that's demonstrably untrue, what does it matter?

[Mr. Skinny]

Since that's demonstrably untrue, what does it matter?
:confused: Please demonstrate then.

[Slayhamlet]

:confused: Please demonstrate then.

This poor sod (http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/pub/default.asp?/Online/qdisp/bn=09041073) was arrested for, among other things, false imprisonment. On his birthday, no less.

It didn't take me more than five minutes to find this. What could possibly be so confusing about it?

[stateofgrace]

BS meter pegged on this one..

Edited for personal attack. Please review your membership agreement.[/B]!

Unlike you, right?

[A W Smith]

This poor sod (http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/pub/default.asp?/Online/qdisp/bn=09041073) was arrested for, among other things, false imprisonment. On his birthday, no less.

It didn't take me more than five minutes to find this. What could possibly be so confusing about it?


perhaps he didn't want the guests to leave his strangulation / birthday party early?
by looking at his photo I observed that he could plea "pinhead" or "diminished capacity"

[Mr. Skinny]

This poor sod (http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/pub/default.asp?/Online/qdisp/bn=09041073) was arrested for, among other things, false imprisonment. On his birthday, no less.

It didn't take me more than five minutes to find this. What could possibly be so confusing about it?
It was confusing because no one had posted any evidence one way or the other (unless I missed it ).

Thanks for the link.

[RedIbis]

This poor sod (http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/pub/default.asp?/Online/qdisp/bn=09041073) was arrested for, among other things, false imprisonment. On his birthday, no less.

It didn't take me more than five minutes to find this. What could possibly be so confusing about it?

Did you find any on the east coast of Florida?

[~enigma~]

Did you find any on the east coast of Florida?
Are your google fingers broken or is it a truther requirement that you are unable to do your own research?

[Slayhamlet]

Did you find any on the east coast of Florida?

Yes, there's at least one in Palm Beach County on the 26th, for example. And no, I will not be doing any more to assist those who would violate triforcharity's privacy, contrary to his desire. Let the creeps do their own damn research. I'm merely countering the misinformation propagated in this thread by certain persons who intend to malign him.

You should understand that all I've done is Googled some recent police blotters which happened to get published on the web, and searched the websites of those few sheriff's offices which list their entire recent arrest records. This is hardly a comprehensive search, and yet I still found numerous such reports. Therefore I must conclude that anyone who seriously maintains no one was arrested on the charge of false imprisonment in Florida on the 26th of July, 2009, or the week thereabout, is either stupid or a liar.

[deep]

Yes, there's at least one in Palm Beach County on the 26th, for example. And no, I will not be doing any more to assist those who would violate triforcharity's privacy, contrary to his desire. Let the creeps do their own damn research. I'm merely countering the misinformation propagated in this thread by certain persons who intend to malign him.


For one thing, Palm Beach County does not border Brevard County. We're being asked to believe that Tri ran into this guy, who happens to live "one neighborhood over", at a 7/11 where he and his family were picking up slushies. Palm Beach County is around 117 miles away from where they both live.

..but, even if Palm Beach County was closer - don't forget that this guy would also be charged with some form of harassment, and held without bail for some period of time after the initial arrest.

I respect Tri's need for privacy, but that doesn't eliminate his burden of proof. He started the thread, made a claim, and has yet to provide any evidence for that claim.

[UNLoVedRebel]

I respect Tri's need for privacy, but that doesn't eliminate his burden of proof. He started the thread, made a claim, and has yet to provide any evidence for that claim.


:i:

[Hokulele]

I respect Tri's need for privacy, but that doesn't eliminate his burden of proof. He started the thread, made a claim, and has yet to provide any evidence for that claim.


It looks like you skipped this post.

I will be contacting the SAO to figure out what is going on tomorrow morning. If I can, I will post a sanitized report from them. Lord knows there won't be much but the statement from me and the officer. Not much else.


You may want to wait and see what tri can dig up before commenting on his evidence or lack thereof.

[Arus808]

Tri explained, in post 82, why it is that he doesn't want to disclose any more information than he already has, and I understand completely. If some Twoofer tracked him down and started harassing him outside the calming influence of Mrs. Tri, there might be a Buzz Aldrin moment, and we don't want that.*

* - Unless, of course, there's video.

and its quite dangerous, as we've seen with SEVERAL members of the truth movement, when they do get personal information or actually harm their own FAMILY (one murdered his parents)

I was HARASSED by an internet stalker and to this DAY, I keep all my information as private as possible.

I will never ever reveal any private information to a bunch of lunatics as those who participate in the troof movement

[Hokulele]

:i:


To be fair, deep is one of the truthers who does actually do research and try to support his/her points with evidence.

[UNLoVedRebel]

To be fair, deep is one of the truthers who does actually do research and try to support his/her points with evidence.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=111885

:wackynah:

[Arus808]

I respect Tri's need for privacy, but that doesn't eliminate his burden of proof. He started the thread, made a claim, and has yet to provide any evidence for that claim.

he started this thread to describe an experience he had with a very confused and disturbed individual, that for all intense and purposes, kept tri's family from the ability to leave, by blocking him while he was in his car.

THAT's all.

He has nothing to prove. HE's relating a PERSONAL experience.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Good god, reheat lit deep44 up like a Christmas tree.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3638411#post3638411

[Magenta]

This thread has taken a strange turn. When did relating a personal anecdote ("I just wanted to share my experience with you guys today.") become elevated to "making a claim"?

[OneRedEye]

...countering the misinformation...
Are you talking about the stuff the moderator recently clipped, or something else?

Therefore I must conclude that anyone who seriously maintains no one was arrested on the charge of false imprisonment in Florida on the 26th of July, 2009, or the week thereabout, is either stupid or a liar.
Anyone in particular you had in mind? If there are no demonstrable instances of someone maintaining that notion, what does it matter? Stupid and liar figure prominently in JEF word count histograms, I modestly suggest a thesaurus or alternately removing the finger from the trigger while you wave your hands around.

Incidentally, I believe him, but could be mistaken since it's not based on any evidence whatsoever. Just being kindly disposed to him for providing some information on another topic is sufficient for me. There's no reason to expect anyone identified as being in the demographic of 'truther' be so kindly disposed. I also take the story as anectdotal and moreover don't care whether it's actually true, yet I easily understand how someone ensconced in the target demographic would be inclined to challenge the veracity. It ******* amazes me that I whipped through these posts wondering when someone would ask the obvious and yet there's all this (feigned?) surprise when it happens.

A truly interesting thing to me is what constitutes threshold of acceptance of this anecdote for various posters. I expect very high correlation with a much more crude and restricted set of markers, perhaps even on occurrence of words 'stupid' and 'liar' in general posting history. Alas, that sort of research is not done in five minutes so will also probably be consigned to the "what does it matter?" bin. Rest assured, no personally identifiable information will be retained in any case.

----

There was a moment where four words crossed my mind, ever so briefly yet amusingly, in succession: Unsecured Coins chip hoax. I believe many here would eagerly stick their heads into such a guillotine, if it were offered by a skilled technician. Not bloody likely, so don't worry too much!

It's ill advised to start threads that reveal too much personal information, regardless of how tempting the subject matter may be in the context of camaraderie and so on. Likewise, the temptation to provide even more information when challenged might best be passed up, with scant thought to what that might mean to your reputation amongst people whose opinion you do not value.

[funk de fino]

Unfortunately this thread was always going to be "gotcha" bait for the losers on here who get trounced in every other thread they participate in.

[JoeyDonuts]

It's ill advised to start threads that reveal too much personal information, regardless of how tempting the subject matter may be in the context of camaraderie and so on. Likewise, the temptation to provide even more information when challenged might best be passed up, with scant thought to what that might mean to your reputation amongst people whose opinion you do not value.

The CIT folks are notorious for actively trying to find and publish the identities and photos of their detractors. I don't think either one of those chumps would ever try something IRL, but the less reality-inclined amongst their following might.

This being a public forum it makes nothing but the best kind of sense to not even let an inkling of who you are out there. Certain folks with a more public and higher profile don't have this luxury, like Gravy for example. He's done television appearances and been more or less a public figure. (Granted, he'd most likely tell you that publicity was the farthest thing from what he wanted when he decided to publicly counter the assertions of the 9/11 TM.)

[Locknar]

It does not take a Genius Sleuth to understand a request wrt a Members privacy. Identifying the exact 7/11 visited, or other personal information about a Member, has nothing to do with the OP nor is it civil/polite. I suggest the conversation move on....

[Justin39640]

tri
did the fact that your kid was there elevate the situation as far as the police's reactions?

o and i seen your lil yankee comment yesterday :p
still .5 ahead lol
i know Baltimore is tough team
its amazing they won all those games to help them catch back up lol
(i think me and you need yankee v bosox thread in the sports forum but it may get ugly lol)

[RedIbis]

tri
did the fact that your kid was there elevate the situation as far as the police's reactions?

o and i seen your lil yankee comment yesterday :p
still .5 ahead lol
i know Baltimore is tough team
its amazing they won all those games to help them catch back up lol
(i think me and you need yankee v bosox thread in the sports forum but it may get ugly lol)

How 'bout the Melk Man!

[Justin39640]

How 'bout the Melk Man!

we needed something after the few games before (:mad: grrr tri lol)
i just read too that the last yankee to do that on the road was dimaggio also in chicago

conspiracy? hmmm

[RedIbis]

we needed something after the few games before (:mad: grrr tri lol)
i just read too that the last yankee to do that on the road was dimaggio also in chicago

conspiracy? hmmm

My biggest concern going into the post-season is the poor corner outfield defense. That's going to haunt us eventually.

[beachnut]

What if there are no arrests for false imprisonment anywhere in Florida for the entire week?

From Florida - ***** ****** ******, **, **** ****, **** *****, was arrested July 26 by Deputy ******* ****** on a felony charge of false imprisonment. And there are more from the 26th of false imprisonment. Does being a conspiracy theorist prohibited you from doing research?
It is easy to catch the conspiracy theorist making up delusions.

[triforcharity]

I just got off the phone with the misses, as she is the one who spoke to the SAO. Turns out this guy, whom I assumed was in his mid 20's, is only 17 yoa!! HOLY SNIKEYS!!! This guy looked old enough to buy beer.

He has a bond hearing on the 16th, as that is his 21st day of incarceration. I feel kinda bad for him. He's just a kid, but what he did was stupid.

[Hokulele]

I just got off the phone with the misses, as she is the one who spoke to the SAO. Turns out this guy, whom I assumed was in his mid 20's, is only 17 yoa!! HOLY SNIKEYS!!! This guy looked old enough to buy beer.

He has a bond hearing on the 16th, as that is his 21st day of incarceration. I feel kinda bad for him. He's just a kid, but what he did was stupid.


Yeah, that's kind of why I asked if you knew his age. His behavior sounded kind of rash. I am just afraid that his brush with the law might have two adverse affects:

1) He is more convinced than ever that "governmental authority" = "bad".

2) He will be seen as a hero by his CT friends, who will also be driven to rash actions.


Now that you know a little bit more, have you considered visiting him and trying to have a more rational conversation about what happened?

[triforcharity]

Justin,

I don't think so. They got there pretty quick though. Something about professional courtesy.

Yeah, that's kind of why I asked if you knew his age. His behavior sounded kind of rash. I am just afraid that his brush with the law might have two adverse affects:

1) He is more convinced than ever that "governmental authority" = "bad".

2) He will be seen as a hero by his CT friends, who will also be driven to rash actions.

I sent him a letter, dropped it in the mail for outgoing tomorrow. Hopefully what I said to him sinks in. I kept it pretty short and sweet. Told him that what he did was really stupid, that someone could have gotten hurt. Told him not to do stupid stuff like that. It's fine to have his beliefs, but when they get in the way of sound thinking, the consequences could be very bad for him.

So, we shall see. I enclosed 5 bucks for him. Like I said, I feel bad. He's just a kid. Even sent some stamps for him, and told him to write me if he wanted.

I will be speaking to the wife as to what she thinks we should do from here on out, knowing that he is just a kid. But, obviously, we cannot just let it drop, he needs some consequences. But, at the same time, prison and a permanant record isn't what I want for the kid. He still could be some benefit to society.


Now that you know a little bit more, have you considered visiting him and trying to have a more rational conversation about what happened?

[triforcharity]

Yeah, that's kind of why I asked if you knew his age. His behavior sounded kind of rash. I am just afraid that his brush with the law might have two adverse affects:

1) He is more convinced than ever that "governmental authority" = "bad".

2) He will be seen as a hero by his CT friends, who will also be driven to rash actions.



Now that you know a little bit more, have you considered visiting him and trying to have a more rational conversation about what happened?

I sent him a letter, dropped it in the mail for outgoing tomorrow. Hopefully what I said to him sinks in. I kept it pretty short and sweet. Told him that what he did was really stupid, that someone could have gotten hurt. Told him not to do stupid stuff like that. It's fine to have his beliefs, but when they get in the way of sound thinking, the consequences could be very bad for him.

So, we shall see. I enclosed 5 bucks for him. Like I said, I feel bad. He's just a kid. Even sent some stamps for him, and told him to write me if he wanted.

I will be speaking to the wife as to what she thinks we should do from here on out, knowing that he is just a kid. But, obviously, we cannot just let it drop, he needs some consequences. But, at the same time, prison and a permanant record isn't what I want for the kid. He still could be some benefit to society.

[Justin39640]

Justin,

I don't think so. They got there pretty quick though. Something about professional courtesy.

no i meant as far as how they handled the situation after they got there

[triforcharity]

Maybe. The cop gave this kid the riot act about messing with a guy and his family. But, I don't think he would have handled it any differently if my son hadn't been there.

[Hokulele]

I sent him a letter, dropped it in the mail for outgoing tomorrow. Hopefully what I said to him sinks in. I kept it pretty short and sweet. Told him that what he did was really stupid, that someone could have gotten hurt. Told him not to do stupid stuff like that. It's fine to have his beliefs, but when they get in the way of sound thinking, the consequences could be very bad for him.

So, we shall see. I enclosed 5 bucks for him. Like I said, I feel bad. He's just a kid. Even sent some stamps for him, and told him to write me if he wanted.

I will be speaking to the wife as to what she thinks we should do from here on out, knowing that he is just a kid. But, obviously, we cannot just let it drop, he needs some consequences. But, at the same time, prison and a permanant record isn't what I want for the kid. He still could be some benefit to society.


Oh, I agree, he must learn that there are consequences for his actions and he should think before doing something stupid. But I mostly hoped that you had the chance to show him that you, and other firefighters, aren't monsters.

I think you did. :)


And for something completely different, where the heck did the Sox find Daniel Bard? :eye-poppi

[triforcharity]

Which is exactly what I sent him a little bit of money. One of my good friends got into a little trouble, so I know how much a friendly letter, and a little bit of money can lift your spirits. I told him that if he wanted to, I would come visit him, and talk to him face to face. I told him that if he wants to, he could even call me collect. I have alot of compassion for kids. Even though he is almost 18, I still have a little faith that he can change.




As far as Bard, I believe they found him in Heaven. 100 MPH fastball???? HOLY SWEET FLUFFY JESUS!!

[Oscar]

Well, if all this is true, and I've no reason to doubt it, I have a certain sympathy with the 17 year old idiot. I did something stupid when I was that age involving credit cards. It got me in hot water and resulted in some very uncomfortable interviews in police stations. A quarter of a century later the memory still makes me blush with shame. I learnt my lesson.

Hopefully the same will be the case for this young idiot.

Triforcharity, it sounds like you're dealing with the situation with as much humanity as anyone can ask for.

[Orphia Nay]

Triforcharity, it sounds like you're dealing with the situation with as much humanity as anyone can ask for.

Seconded.

@TFC: :th:

[Arus808]

which also lends to the persistence of the troofers who "wanted" to know who was involved; the boy is 17. a minor, so his identity would have been kept private anyway...

[Caustic Logic]

I will be speaking to the wife as to what she thinks we should do from here on out, knowing that he is just a kid. But, obviously, we cannot just let it drop, he needs some consequences. But, at the same time, prison and a permanant record isn't what I want for the kid. He still could be some benefit to society.

Prison wouldn't help anyone. Doesn't seem reasonable or realistic. Jail and confinement etc. is itself traumatic plus whatever he's got going on upstairs to deal with. Psych eval is the thing that's needed and then from there. For your part you should just push that. Is he safe, first, and then how, erm, healthy vs. ill... good on you reaching out. The $5 might seem condescending tho :p

[njslim]

I sent him a letter, dropped it in the mail for outgoing tomorrow. Hopefully what I said to him sinks in. I kept it pretty short and sweet

Hope you told him not to drop the soap.......

[RedIbis]

Which is exactly what I sent him a little bit of money. One of my good friends got into a little trouble, so I know how much a friendly letter, and a little bit of money can lift your spirits. I told him that if he wanted to, I would come visit him, and talk to him face to face. I told him that if he wants to, he could even call me collect. I have alot of compassion for kids. Even though he is almost 18, I still have a little faith that he can change.




As far as Bard, I believe they found him in Heaven. 100 MPH fastball???? HOLY SWEET FLUFFY JESUS!!

Didn't they know he was 17 when they charged him with a felony and held him without bail?

And a second question, weren't you just as excited when you got Dice-K? Haha!

[triforcharity]

Didn't they know he was 17 when they charged him with a felony and held him without bail?

And a second question, weren't you just as excited when you got Dice-K? Haha!


I am sure the police did. So, just because he was 17, they couldn't/wouldn't charge him with a felony?? I am not sure I follow your thinking here.

Dice-K will be back to full strength soon enough. Yes, I was excited, but not as much. Saito has been a disapointment for the most part though. Hopefully something changes with him.

[RedIbis]

I am sure the police did. So, just because he was 17, they couldn't/wouldn't charge him with a felony?? I am not sure I follow your thinking here.

Dice-K will be back to full strength soon enough. Yes, I was excited, but not as much. Saito has been a disapointment for the most part though. Hopefully something changes with him.

Forgive my skepticism, but what we have here now is an irate 17yo truther gets into a shouting match with you at a 7/11, stands behind your car until the cops arrive and then is charged with a felony and held without bail.

Then after talking in this thread about how you'd like to hit him with a large wrench or go to his neighborhood blasting an airhorn, (which would disturb the entire neighborhood and not just him) you reflected upon his age and sent him $5 and some stamps so you could have a pen pal.

Don't take it personally, but I'm not buying it. And I'm not buying that the Sox starting pitching won't be their undoing either.

[Longfellow]

With regards to the OP, I'd like to commend you on your admirable restraint, triforcharity. I know for a fact that I could not have done the same were I in your shoes.

And with regards to your avatar and signature -- well, all I'm gonna say is I'm still bummed about 2004. But I will also add that I'm pretty proud of the ovation the Red Sox got in St. Louis after they won. I was there and, while we sure wanted to win the Series, it was kind of neat to see the Red Sox do it after so long.

[funk de fino]

Forgive my skepticism, but what we have here now is an irate 17yo truther gets into a shouting match with you at a 7/11, stands behind your car until the cops arrive and then is charged with a felony and held without bail.

Then after talking in this thread about how you'd like to hit him with a large wrench or go to his neighborhood blasting an airhorn, (which would disturb the entire neighborhood and not just him) you reflected upon his age and sent him $5 and some stamps so you could have a pen pal.

Don't take it personally, but I'm not buying it. And I'm not buying that the Sox starting pitching won't be their undoing either.

You are well known for underhand and disgusting attacks on innocent people with no evidence to back up your claims. We dont really care what you buy.

[triforcharity]

I'll give some leniency for a kid, as that is all he is. An adult should be held to higher standards, won't you agree??

Anyway, I never said I wanted to hit him with a spanner wrench. I believe I even said I didn't condone that kind of behavior. Now, as far as the airhorn thing, that would just be funny. Not that I would, as I have a little bit more respect for mankind than most truthers do. Its called maturity.




"Don't take it personally, but I'm not buying it. And I'm not buying that the Sox starting pitching won't be their undoing either."

Lets see, Beckett-13 wins

Wakefield 12 wins

Do any of your pitchers have 12 or 13 wins?? I don't think so.

ETA: Oh yeah, almost forgot. How many times has the yanks beat us this year??? Lets see.....1? No, thats not it. 2-3??? No, that's not it either. OH YEAH!! ITS NONE!!!

[RedIbis]

I'll give some leniency for a kid, as that is all he is. An adult should be held to higher standards, won't you agree??

Anyway, I never said I wanted to hit him with a spanner wrench. I believe I even said I didn't condone that kind of behavior. Now, as far as the airhorn thing, that would just be funny. Not that I would, as I have a little bit more respect for mankind than most truthers do. Its called maturity.




"Don't take it personally, but I'm not buying it. And I'm not buying that the Sox starting pitching won't be their undoing either."

Lets see, Beckett-13 wins

Wakefield 12 wins

Do any of your pitchers have 12 or 13 wins?? I don't think so.

ETA: Oh yeah, almost forgot. How many times has the yanks beat us this year??? Lets see.....1? No, thats not it. 2-3??? No, that's not it either. OH YEAH!! ITS NONE!!!

You said he's going to turn 18 soon, will you still feel like giving the kid some leniency then?

And the Yanks played terribly against the Sox earlier this year. Let's just see what happens in Sept. Trust me, I am as keenly aware as anyone how bad the Yankees can play. I'd rather see Melky up at a key moment than A-Rod.

[TruthersLie]

and its quite dangerous, as we've seen with SEVERAL members of the truth movement, when they do get personal information or actually harm their own FAMILY (one murdered his parents)

I was HARASSED by an internet stalker and to this DAY, I keep all my information as private as possible.

I will never ever reveal any private information to a bunch of lunatics as those who participate in the troof movement

As was I.

I have an internet stalker who posted my personal information on Youtube, and then posted a lie about who I work for (the wrong college) with that universities head in it, and then advocated that other twoofs go and write him an email saying that I was a "lying, bad professor/"

so one of my neighbors (who is that university's dean) came over to me to ask me about it.

Now Ras Al Khaimah is rather small. There are only about 200 western expats, so when twoofs start harassing the head of another school about me, it kind of affects my personal relationships.

So I can fully respect Tri for not wanting to post the EXACT details for twoofs to try to run down.

[TruthersLie]

I am sure the police did. So, just because he was 17, they couldn't/wouldn't charge him with a felony?? I am not sure I follow your thinking here.

Dice-K will be back to full strength soon enough. Yes, I was excited, but not as much. Saito has been a disapointment for the most part though. Hopefully something changes with him.

Actually Tri, they would be more than willing to charge him with a felony, and depending on what is criminal background was, they may throw MORE charges at him.

Of course if his 18th birthday is anytime near, they could just HOLD him for warrents (if he has any outstanding ones, and I'd be willing to bet a couple of bucks he does), and once he turns 18 then charge him with the felony. (which they can and often DO)

[Carll68]

Deep, I'm not sure why you have such a need to confirm Tri's story, but you should be aware that posting personal information here is grounds for banning.

Just sayin'.

Let me be clear..I do not "think I know" , or "believe I Know", MOST OF THE TIME.

Either I KNOW or I DON'T KNOW - and I KNOW that truthers claims are moon bat crazy.
No Nano super duper exploding horizontal cutting themrite that leaves zero trace evidence and makes no discernible sound and presents no visual evidence.
No super sekrit missiles that magically leave DNA behind and debris from the plane that supposedly flew over the pentagon.
On and On

YET, having said that....and even thought TRI is on the right side......I am calling BS on his story....

Call it my nose for fabrication....I just do not buy it.

[Gaspode]

The Sports (http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=24) forum would be a better place for the baseball discussion. Thanks.

[jhunter1163]

Let me be clear..I do not "think I know" , or "believe I Know", MOST OF THE TIME.

Either I KNOW or I DON'T KNOW - and I KNOW that truthers claims are moon bat crazy.
No Nano super duper exploding horizontal cutting themrite that leaves zero trace evidence and makes no discernible sound and presents no visual evidence.
No super sekrit missiles that magically leave DNA behind and debris from the plane that supposedly flew over the pentagon.
On and On

YET, having said that....and even thought TRI is on the right side......I am calling BS on his story....

Call it my nose for fabrication....I just do not buy it.

I'm not sure why you chose my post to quote, but of course you're entitled to your opinion regarding Tri's story. This is a skeptical forum after all, and asking for evidence is what skeptics do.

However, Tri has explained his reasons for not providing further evidence, and (to me at least) they seem quite sound. So I guess your doubts will go unaddressed.

[triforcharity]

You said he's going to turn 18 soon, will you still feel like giving the kid some leniency then?

And the Yanks played terribly against the Sox earlier this year. Let's just see what happens in Sept. Trust me, I am as keenly aware as anyone how bad the Yankees can play. I'd rather see Melky up at a key moment than A-Rod.

Yes, I will, as the event happened when he was a kid. Now, if he goes and pulls another stunt like this before he turns 18, then I would have absolutely no sympathy.

[triforcharity]

Actually Tri, they would be more than willing to charge him with a felony, and depending on what is criminal background was, they may throw MORE charges at him.

Of course if his 18th birthday is anytime near, they could just HOLD him for warrents (if he has any outstanding ones, and I'd be willing to bet a couple of bucks he does), and once he turns 18 then charge him with the felony. (which they can and often DO)

Nah, that whats so suprising. He has a SPOTLESS record. Not even a speeding ticket. So, we shall see.


However, Tri has explained his reasons for not providing further evidence, and (to me at least) they seem quite sound. So I guess your doubts will go unaddressed.
Yep, they pretty much will be ignored, as I refuse to elaborate any more than I have.


I find it hillarious and ironic. I make a claim, but before they will believe it, I have to provide evidence. BUT, they can make a claim all day and don't have to provide any evidence. Hummm...........

[Slayhamlet]

For one thing, Palm Beach County does not border Brevard County. We're being asked to believe that Tri ran into this guy, who happens to live "one neighborhood over", at a 7/11 where he and his family were picking up slushies. Palm Beach County is around 117 miles away from where they both live.

I was of course not going to provide an example (did you miss that word?) satisfying RedIbis's query which could conceivably lead someone to discover Triforcharity's identity. I will not be participating in your hapless quest to disprove this story.

..but, even if Palm Beach County was closer - don't forget that this guy would also be charged with some form of harassment, and held without bail for some period of time after the initial arrest.

I do not trust your questionable research, so none of this matters. If you've convinced yourself it's false, fine.

I respect Tri's need for privacy, but that doesn't eliminate his burden of proof. He started the thread, made a claim, and has yet to provide any evidence for that claim.

So don't believe him then. What you don't seem to get is that Tri's story is not being used to buttress any sort of argument. If it ever is, feel free to rebut it as an unproven claim. As for myself, I very much doubt you have access to all the information you would need to disprove it.

[gumboot]

The reason the guy got arrested was for two reasons. First, blocking me from leaving, in the state of Florida, is false inprisonment. A felony. The second, harassing a public servant. Not a felony, but just a simple misdemeanor.


Isn't it also illegal to falsely accuse someone of murder? So that would be 2,998 counts of false accusation of murder right?

[matt.tansy]

I met my first truther a few weeks ago. We're both in the Navy and work in the same building. I see him every day but the topic of 9/11 came up one day. I asked him what makes him think it was a conspiracy and he said, "It was the first time in history that fire melted steel."!

[DGM]

I met my first truther a few weeks ago. We're both in the Navy and work in the same building. I see him every day but the topic of 9/11 came up one day. I asked him what makes him think it was a conspiracy and he said, "It was the first time in history that fire melted steel."!
Wow, did you ask him when he thought that was? (obviously he's not talking about 9/11/01 if he's referring to the first time fire melted steel). Did you ask him what he was talking about?

[Arus808]

"It was the first time in history that fire melted steel."!


I would have answered back: "You're in the navy, how the hell do you think they make the damn boats?"

[Justin39640]

ETA: Oh yeah, almost forgot. How many times has the yanks beat us this year??? Lets see.....1? No, thats not it. 2-3??? No, that's not it either. OH YEAH!! ITS NONE!!!

ouchies lol

[RedIbis]

ouchies lol

It's been a tough week for him. First his story is exposed as a fabrication and now this.

[TruthersLie]

It's been a tough week for him. First his story is exposed as a fabrication and now this.

Is it me or do all twoofs have horrendous reading comprehension skills and the ability to make blatant logical jumps with no evidence?

no where in this thread has Tri's story been "exposed as a fabrication."

please provide a citation or offer an apology for slandering Tri.

as for the yanks beating the sox... well we all knew it was going to happen.

[~enigma~]

as for the yanks beating the sox... well we all knew it was going to happen.
Anybody notice the mod box?

[FineWine]

Is it me or do all twoofs have horrendous reading comprehension skills and the ability to make blatant logical jumps with no evidence?

no where in this thread has Tri's story been "exposed as a fabrication."

please provide a citation or offer an apology for slandering Tri.

as for the yanks beating the sox... well we all knew it was going to happen.


RedIbis is actually very consistent for a "truther."

His position on the zany "pull it" nonsense is, I really, really want to believe that "pull it" has something to do with controlled demolition.

His position on the collapse of WTC 7 is, I really, really want to believe that computer simulations can't help serious researchers figure out why a structure failed.

His position on the crash of U93 is, I really, really want to believe that some form of chemical testing of the soil in Shanksville will make the debris from the plane vanish.

His position here is, I really, really want to believe that Tri's story was exposed as a fabrication.

[Justin39640]

Is it me or do all twoofs have horrendous reading comprehension skills and the ability to make blatant logical jumps with no evidence?

no where in this thread has Tri's story been "exposed as a fabrication."

please provide a citation or offer an apology for slandering Tri.

as for the yanks beating the sox... well we all knew it was going to happen.

yeah red where was he "exposed"? i didnt see that post
i agree that an apology is in order

i dont find his story all that strange
ive met truthers (mostly while working) and i know a couple personally
they all seem very "quirky"
though none (that werent my friends) have ever started with me, maybe cause i was twice their size with large heavy tools in my hand lol, maybe cause i didnt have my family with me
either way, provocation on their part would have been met with "disastrous" results (physically and professionally)
im glad tri kept his cool

other than that im sure it wasnt a "wicked awesome" weekend in beantown lol
http://bkaeg.org/blog/images/YankeesLogo_inv.gif

[johnny karate]

RedIbis is on record accusing FDNY firefighters of mass murder, so I find it difficult to take anything he says seriously.

[funk de fino]

It's been a tough week for him. First his story is exposed as a fabrication and now this.

You should take that accusation back, or it will be added to the other baseless and ignorant accusations you have thrown at innocent people in your cowardly posting history.

[Lupie]

So,

Triforcharity relates a personal experience in which he demonstrated remarkable restraint. He then shows a very admirable attitude regarding this kid who was arrested. Tri has concern for the well being of someone who, at first glance, he should not be concerned about. He sends the kid some money, stamps, and an invitation to talk, He even offers to visit the kid.

And all you resident truthers can do is accuse Triforcharity of fabricating the whole incident? You are calling the man a liar? What the hell is wrong with you people? Not everyone in this world who disagrees with you is a liar. Because Tri has very different views than truthers does not make the man a liar. You people are pathetic, you make me sick with all your holier than thou, self righteous garbage. Tri has demonstrated both his professional demenor, and his empathy for someone he could easily have no empathy for at all.

And for that, he's called a liar. And truthers wonder why people despise them.

L.

[16.5]

It's been a tough week for him. First his story is exposed as a fabrication and now this.

Wow, that is shockingly bold claim are we are going to have to insist that you immediately follow up with support for that defamation.

[TruthersLie]

Anybody notice the mod box?

E.

Oh I definately noted the mod box... I was just making a full reply.

[Stellafane]

...First his story is exposed as a fabrication...

That is an outright lie, and if you don't retract it, you are a liar.

[RedIbis]

That is an outright lie, and if you don't retract it, you are a liar.

Don't cry just because you swallowed his whopper whole.

[16.5]

Don't cry just because you swallowed his whopper whole.

Wow, that is shockingly bold claim we are going to have to insist that you immediately follow up with support for that defamation.

[RedIbis]

Wow, that is shockingly bold claim we are going to have to insist that you immediately follow up with support for that defamation.

Funny that you didn't ask for any support for the original tall tale.

[16.5]

Funny that you didn't ask for any support for the original tall tale.

Wow, that is shockingly bold claim we are going to have to insist that you immediately follow up with support for that defamation.

[FineWine]

Funny that you didn't ask for any support for the original tall tale.


His story certainly rings true. What makes you doubt it?

[Hokulele]

It's been a tough week for him. First his story is exposed as a fabrication and now this.


If triforcharity were to provide evidence supporting his OP to the admins of this forum, that would protect his privacy (much as T.A.M. did some time ago with his credentials). If the admins were to agree that the presented evidence did support the OP, would you accept that?

[johnny karate]

Funny that you didn't ask for any support for the original tall tale.

triforcharity shared an anecdote with as much substantiating information as he was comfortable providing. Such as it is, it's simply not possible to definitively establish its veracity. Each person that reads it has the prerogative to form their own opinion.

You, on the other hand, made a specific claim about a specific member of this forum as a statement of fact. You're entitled to doubt triforcharity's story, but you're not entitled to state it was exposed as a fabrication when nothing of the sort actually took place. At least not without everyone here pointing out that you're a liar.

I should be surprised by your blatant dishonesty, but after your accusations of murder against the FDNY, and your anti-Semetic rants against Larry Silverstein, not much you do surprises me anymore.

[Stellafane]

Don't cry just because you swallowed his whopper whole.

OK everyone, may I have you attention for a moment? Behold the Truth Movement. Consider: RedIbis is accusing someone else of fabrication, despite the fact that he has absolutely no proof of it. Despite the fact that his own credibility in this issue has been completely shot, when he made claims about Florida arrest reports that turned out to be completely untrue. Despite the fact that Triforcharity has zero reason for making up such a story. Despite the fact that as a fiction, his story sucks -- I mean, if you're going to make something up, you should at least invent a more dramatic situation in which you come off braver and wittier over a far more formidable foe. Despite -- oh hell, you get the idea.

All of the above would humiliate any normal person, to the point they would either offer the most abject of apologies, or quit the forum altogether in red-faced shame. But not a Truther, No, Truthers feel entitled to pronounce something a lie based upon nothing more than they simply don't like it. So what if it's totally unfair and insulting to someone you've never even met? If a Truther doesn't want it to be true, he simply says it's untrue, and as far as he's concerned, case closed. After all, isn't that how reality works, it's all one big matter of opinion?

If I were a Mod, such a baseless accusation -- especially from someone who has already proven he wouldn't know the truth if it came up and slapped him in the face -- would merit a justly earned suspension, if not an outright banning. But I suspect nothing will happen in this case, for the ironic reason that being a Truther probably affords RedIbis some "benefit" of the doubt: "Of, he's just being a Truther, and everybody knows how stupid and clueless and callous they are. You can't really get mad, they just can't help it." Still, such behavior is utterly beneath contempt, and ultimately says vastly more about the accuser than the accused.

[Mr. Skinny]

You should apologize, RedIbis. There is no evidence that his story is a fabrication.

Arguments from incredulity don't gain any traction here.

[matt.tansy]

I would have answered back: "You're in the navy, how the hell do you think they make the damn boats?"
Nah, I assumed he was refering to jet fuel melting steel. I told him the temperature-strength relationship. From his expression, I'm guessing he had never read or thought of that contributing to the collapse.

[JoeyDonuts]

Nah, I assumed he was refering to jet fuel melting steel. I told him the temperature-strength relationship. From his expression, I'm guessing he had never read or thought of that contributing to the collapse.

Tell me this guy's not in "power school."

[RedIbis]

You should apologize, RedIbis. There is no evidence that his story is a fabrication.

Arguments from incredulity don't gain any traction here.

The guy's story sounded like a work from the get go. Then when pressed on the details he couldn't come up with any support.

I ask you to consider this summation again:

Forgive my skepticism, but what we have here now is an irate 17yo truther gets into a shouting match with you at a 7/11, stands behind your car until the cops arrive and then is charged with a felony and held without bail.

Then after talking in this thread about how you'd like to hit him with a large wrench or go to his neighborhood blasting an airhorn, (which would disturb the entire neighborhood and not just him) you reflected upon his age and sent him $5 and some stamps so you could have a pen pal.

Don't take it personally, but I'm not buying it.

[Hokulele]

Don't take it personally, but I'm not buying it.


If an admin of this forum were to verify and confirm the evidence, would you buy it?

[twinstead]

The guy's story sounded like a work from the get go. Then when pressed on the details he couldn't come up with any support.

I ask you to consider this summation again:

Forgive my skepticism, but what we have here now is an irate 17yo truther gets into a shouting match with you at a 7/11, stands behind your car until the cops arrive and then is charged with a felony and held without bail.

Then after talking in this thread about how you'd like to hit him with a large wrench or go to his neighborhood blasting an airhorn, (which would disturb the entire neighborhood and not just him) you reflected upon his age and sent him $5 and some stamps so you could have a pen pal.

Don't take it personally, but I'm not buying it.

If only you were as credulous of all the crap you parrot from the truth movement.

[TruthersLie]

The guy's story sounded like a work from the get go. Then when pressed on the details he couldn't come up with any support.

I ask you to consider this summation again:

Forgive my skepticism, but what we have here now is an irate 17yo truther gets into a shouting match with you at a 7/11, stands behind your car until the cops arrive and then is charged with a felony and held without bail.

Then after talking in this thread about how you'd like to hit him with a large wrench or go to his neighborhood blasting an airhorn, (which would disturb the entire neighborhood and not just him) you reflected upon his age and sent him $5 and some stamps so you could have a pen pal.

Don't take it personally, but I'm not buying it.

Whether you wish to buy it or not, that isn't what you claimed. YOu claimed that it was an outright fabrication and was exposed as being one.

now, I for one would love to see the citation which shows that it was a "fabrication" which was exposed. Where is it?

And for the record a 17 year old can be charged with a felony, and can be arrested and held in jail (not w/out bail, but if he is unable to pay bail, then he sits).

whetehr you buy it or not, does not mean it was "exposed" as a "fabrication."

Either retract your bs claim or be the liar we all know you are.

[johnny karate]

The guy's story sounded like a work from the get go. Then when pressed on the details he couldn't come up with any support.

I ask you to consider this summation again:

Forgive my skepticism, but what we have here now is an irate 17yo truther gets into a shouting match with you at a 7/11, stands behind your car until the cops arrive and then is charged with a felony and held without bail.

Then after talking in this thread about how you'd like to hit him with a large wrench or go to his neighborhood blasting an airhorn, (which would disturb the entire neighborhood and not just him) you reflected upon his age and sent him $5 and some stamps so you could have a pen pal.

Don't take it personally, but I'm not buying it.

Gee, that's swell.

But it turns out this:
First his story is exposed as a fabrication and now this.
is still a lie.

[16.5]

If only you were as credulous of all the crap you parrot from the truth movement.

It's been a tough day for Red Ibis. First his post is exposed as a complete fabrication and now he does not have the balls to back it up.

Don't take it personally, no one is buying his BS anymore.

[RedIbis]

If an admin of this forum were to verify and confirm the evidence, would you buy it?

Sure. And if he can't or won't, then what?

[johnny karate]

Sure. And if he can't or won't, then what?

You'll still be liar.

[Hokulele]

Sure.


I will send him a PM.

And if he can't or won't, then what?


Why don't you wait and see what his response is before indulging in further speculation.

[RedIbis]

Whether you wish to buy it or not, that isn't what you claimed. YOu claimed that it was an outright fabrication and was exposed as being one.

now, I for one would love to see the citation which shows that it was a "fabrication" which was exposed. Where is it?

And for the record a 17 year old can be charged with a felony, and can be arrested and held in jail (not w/out bail, but if he is unable to pay bail, then he sits).

whetehr you buy it or not, does not mean it was "exposed" as a "fabrication."

Either retract your bs claim or be the liar we all know you are.

It's my opinion. Argue against it but don't throw a tantrum.

[RedIbis]

I will send him a PM.




Why don't you wait and see what his response is before indulging in further speculation.

It's been two weeks.

[DGM]

When was his story shown to be a fabrication? Did I miss something or is 'Red' making things up again?

[Hokulele]

It's been two weeks.


Um, I just made the suggestion a few hours ago and sent the PM just seconds ago. Seeing as how no one else has made any constructive suggestions for how to verify the information without compromising triforcharity's privacy, your comment is baseless.

[johnny karate]

It's my opinion.

Except for this part right here:
First his story is exposed as a fabrication and now this.

That was just a big ol' lie.

[deep]

If triforcharity were to provide evidence supporting his OP to the admins of this forum, that would protect his privacy (much as T.A.M. did some time ago with his credentials). If the admins were to agree that the presented evidence did support the OP, would you accept that?


Yes, I would certainly accept it, but first I would like to know what the evidence is, from a very high level (e.g., "an arrest report"). That way, we can make sure the admin understands exactly when this happened, which charges to look for, which county it did not happen in, etc. Nothing unreasonable.

[DGM]

Yes, I would certainly accept it, but first I would like to know what the evidence is, from a very high level (e.g., "an arrest report"). That way, we can make sure the admin understands exactly when this happened, which charges to look for, which county it did not happen in, etc. Nothing unreasonable.
Can we expect this level of proof from you regarding your claims?

[deep]

Can we expect this level of proof from you regarding your claims?


You would accept nothing less.

[johnny karate]

deep44 and the rambling, convoluted sophistry he uses to leave open the possibility that explosives were present at the WTC buildings, despite a complete lack of evidence:
Umm, I haven't said that explosives were present - I have no proof of that. I said that you cannot prove that they were not present by telling us what certain eyewitnesses really heard (as opposed to what they reported).

Your assertion that certain eyewitnesses were all mistaken is an unsubstantiated counterclaim. You think you can pass off all kinds of assumptions about what else should have happened in order for a bomb to have been present - but those are not facts.

The worst part is, people in this forum will use that unsubstantiated counterclaim as "proof" in other arguments.

It is what it is - lots of witnesses heard what they believed were bombs and/or loud, unidentified explosions. That doesn't prove that bombs were present, and it doesn't disprove it.


deep44, focused like a laser in determining the best way to prove the veracity of someone's random personal anecdote:
Yes, I would certainly accept it, but first I would like to know what the evidence is, from a very high level (e.g., "an arrest report"). That way, we can make sure the admin understands exactly when this happened, which charges to look for, which county it did not happen in, etc. Nothing unreasonable.


Way to keep your priorities in order, champ. :thumbsup:

[Mr. Skinny]

The guy's story sounded like a work from the get go. Then when pressed on the details he couldn't come up with any support.

I ask you to consider this summation again:

Forgive my skepticism, but what we have here now is an irate 17yo truther gets into a shouting match with you at a 7/11, stands behind your car until the cops arrive and then is charged with a felony and held without bail.

Then after talking in this thread about how you'd like to hit him with a large wrench or go to his neighborhood blasting an airhorn, (which would disturb the entire neighborhood and not just him) you reflected upon his age and sent him $5 and some stamps so you could have a pen pal.

Don't take it personally, but I'm not buying it.
Fine. You don't believe it.

However, you should apologize for your original assertion and rephrase it to simply say "I don't believe it" because, again, there is no evidence that his story is a fabrication.

Simple as that, mate.

[Justin39640]

The guy's story sounded like a work from the get go. Then when pressed on the details he couldn't come up with any support.

I ask you to consider this summation again:

Forgive my skepticism, but what we have here now is an irate 17yo truther gets into a shouting match with you at a 7/11, stands behind your car until the cops arrive and then is charged with a felony and held without bail.

Then after talking in this thread about how you'd like to hit him with a large wrench or go to his neighborhood blasting an airhorn, (which would disturb the entire neighborhood and not just him) you reflected upon his age and sent him $5 and some stamps so you could have a pen pal.

Don't take it personally, but I'm not buying it.

thats called emotions
obviously he wrestled with it over a few days as the situation became clearer along with his head

It's my opinion. Argue against it but don't throw a tantrum.

exactly, its your opinion and like others have pointed out you stated his story was fabricated as a FACT
so when you misrepresent your opinion as fact that makes you a liar

It's been two weeks.

since the thread was created
its only been 2 days since he posted
whats the point?

so you say that people have to convince you with facts and evidence huh?
now you know how every debunker feels when you post out of context videos from youtube as hard evidence....

[RedIbis]

Fine. You don't believe it.

However, you should apologize for your original assertion and rephrase it to simply say "I don't believe it" because, again, there is no evidence that his story is a fabrication.

Simple as that, mate.

C'mon man. This is the last place people should be calling for such gentile language. Just look at the demonization of Twoofers and everything associated with it. Now, I say I don't believe the guy's story and people here get indignant. Seriously, it's ridiculous.

What's at stake was all of this locker room backslapping and fantasizing about violence against the evil Twoofers.

[johnny karate]

C'mon man. This is the last place people should be calling for such gentile language. Just look at the demonization of Twoofers and everything associated with it. Now, I say I don't believe the guy's story and people here get indignant. Seriously, it's ridiculous.

What's at stake was all of this locker room backslapping and fantasizing about violence against the evil Twoofers.

None of that changes the fact that you told a demonstrable lie.

[A W Smith]

C'mon man. This is the last place people should be calling for such gentile language. Just look at the demonization of Twoofers and everything associated with it. Now, I say I don't believe the guy's story and people here get indignant. Seriously, it's ridiculous.

What's at stake was all of this locker room backslapping and fantasizing about violence against the evil Twoofers.


But that is not what you said. You liar

It's been a tough week for him. First his story is exposed as a fabrication and now this.

[Mr. Skinny]

C'mon man. This is the last place people should be calling for such gentile language. Just look at the demonization of Twoofers and everything associated with it. Now, I say I don't believe the guy's story and people here get indignant. Seriously, it's ridiculous.
I won't argue that this place gets rough, and I'm not asking for gentile language. I try to stay away from it for the most part.

Problem is, you didn't say you "don't believe the guy's story", you said that it was "fabricated".

A simple correction in your first post after someone called you on it would have sufficed, but I guess you felt it was worth arguing about, so here we are.

I agree with you that it's kinda ridiculous, but only because, IMHO, you could have ended the whole matter by withdrawing your original statement that his story was fabricated.

What's at stake was all of this locker room backslapping and fantasizing about violence against the evil Twoofers.
Sure, it get's pretty tiring. It happens at truther sites as well. So what?

Accusing someone of fabricating a story with no proof just isn't right, but if you can prove it I'll be on your side in criticizing triforcharity.

[Gravy]

I won't argue that this place gets rough, and I'm not asking for gentile language.Oy!

[tsig]

Oy!

Vey!

[Mr. Skinny]

Oy!
Eff you, Gravy!!!!:D

Please be more genteel in your gentile language.

[RedIbis]

I won't argue that this place gets rough, and I'm not asking for gentile language. I try to stay away from it for the most part.

Problem is, you didn't say you "don't believe the guy's story", you said that it was "fabricated".

A simple correction in your first post after someone called you on it would have sufficed, but I guess you felt it was worth arguing about, so here we are.

I agree with you that it's kinda ridiculous, but only because, IMHO, you could have ended the whole matter by withdrawing your original statement that his story was fabricated.


Sure, it get's pretty tiring. It happens at truther sites as well. So what?

Accusing someone of fabricating a story with no proof just isn't right, but if you can prove it I'll be on your side in criticizing triforcharity.

Isn't this a skeptic's site, where extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof? In other words, this guy needs to verify his story before anyone goes firing up the lynch mob.

[Thunder]

Isn't this a skeptic's site, where extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof?

This is more a site where illogical, irrational, and unscientific ideas and theories are ripped apart and tossed into the trash bin.

Like 9-11 Truth

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Isn't this a skeptic's site, where extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof?

10,000 ninjas with demo packs sneaking into a burning building in front of thousands of eyewitnesses and blowing it up without making a sound = extraordinary claim.

Being accosted by some random jerkwad at a gas station =/= extraordinary claim.

[johnny karate]

Isn't this a skeptic's site, where extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof? In other words, this guy needs to verify his story before anyone goes firing up the lynch mob.

None of that changes the fact that you told a demonstrable lie.

[Mr. Skinny]

Isn't this a skeptic's site, where extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof? In other words, this guy needs to verify his story before anyone goes firing up the lynch mob.
It's not an extraordinary claim, RedIbis. It was an anecdotal story.

As I said, IMO you were wrong to accuse him of fabrication. Don't understand why you persist in this. :confused:

It shall be what it shall be then. Good luck.

[Justin39640]

Isn't this a skeptic's site, where extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof? In other words, this guy needs to verify his story before anyone goes firing up the lynch mob.

the extraordinary claim is YOU claiming tri fabricated his story
wheres your proof?
opinions dont count as we all know what they say about those

fabrication is steven jones altering pictures
i dont see you yelling at him

it takes a big man to admit when hes wrong (and you are so obviously wrong)

[16.5]

Isn't this a skeptic's site, where extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof? In other words, this guy needs to verify his story before anyone goes firing up the lynch mob.

We "gentiles" require proof, any proof, not complaining, not the martyr action, just back up your claim that he lied.

C'mon, Red, do it, don't complain, don't bitch, just back up YOUR claim.

or stfu

[Justin39640]

We "gentiles" require proof, any proof, not complaining, not the martyr action, just back up your claim that he lied.

C'mon, Red, do it, don't complain, don't bitch, just back up YOUR claim.

or stfu

or say sorry

[deep]

Being accosted by some random jerkwad at a gas station =/= extraordinary claim.


Only because it reinforces a popular negative stereotype. If someone had a similar run-in with a debunker, wearing a JREF t-shirt, do you believe it would be accepted without any accompanying evidence? I don't.

[Gravy]

How odd: I've watched as truthers executed a plan to physically impede my movements; tried to prevent me from posting literature; covered up my literature when it was posted; had them rip my literature out of my hands and tear it up; had them threaten lawsuits against me for alleged "traitorous" "criminal" and "libelous" behavior (including one such threat I just learned about last week); had them encourage other truthers to stalk me; had them investigate my background and call all around the country trying to get information about me; had them publicly accuse me of not being Mark Roberts, of not being a tour guide, of being a "dual citizen," a Jew, a Christian, a Bush administration shill, an MK-Ultra victim, an agent of the CIA, FBI, NSA, Mossad, Masons, Illuminati, and a victim of unscrupulous psychiatrists who work for the JREF. Several times I have seen truthers behave so disruptively that police told them they would be arrested if they continued. Several times I have seen what I feared to be public truther nervous breakdowns, including lying down and screaming. I have seen several videos of truthers being arrested for their disruptive behavior. I have seen truthers admit to their truthy activities leading to the dissolution of their relationships with family, friends, teachers, sigoths, and spouses. A truther set himself on fire for attention. Another went on a public hunger strike. Another murdered his father. Another faked his suicide during a radio show. Another was arrested while trying to run weapons to felons wanted by the FBI. Others have sworn to join armed militias or to have actually started a militia. One said he was digging a hole in his backyard to hide in. Hundreds stood outside Larry Silverstein's office building on 9/11 and chanted "Murderer!" Truthers have repeatedly said that someone should kill me and have repeatedly threatened me with all kinds of violence, including murder. Three times I felt that truther death threats against me merited police involvement, and each time the police did take action.

What a sheltered world RedIbis must inhabit, that he finds it impossible that a hotheaded truther kid would stand behind the car of someone he's had an argument with. Where the hell has RedIbis been all these years?

[deep]

What a sheltered world RedIbis must inhabit, to find it incomprehensible that a hotheaded truther kid would stand behind the car of someone he's had an argument with.


Right, and if the story ended right there, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. I became somewhat skeptical after Tri said he was charged with a third-degree felony, and very skeptical after he said this person was being held without bail.

[R.Mackey]

This whole, sad episode is just another example of why the Truth Movement is a skid mark beside the road of human development.

The rational response, upon hearing this anecdote, is to acknowledge that the behavior described by the OP is reprehensible. If you're really here for an honest, productive conversation, you would never harass someone just because he wore an FDNY T-shirt. Ever. You would also distance yourself from anyone who did.

But no, you'd rather attack the messenger. You automatically assume that (a) no Truther could ever act like that -- despite scads of evidence to the contrary... bullhorns outside Larry Silverstein's office on the 5th anniversary, anyone? -- and hence (b) anyone who opposes you must be lying, embellishing, multifarious, whatever; leading us to (c) the correct response is to attack.

Dead wrong.

This is why the Truth Movement, to this day, is riddled with "big top" thinking, running the gamut from the clinically insane to the neo-Nazi.

If you want to convince people you aren't a bunch of nuts, this is absolutely the wrong way to do it. Grow up.

[Gravy]

Right, and if the story ended right there, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. I became somewhat skeptical after Tri said he was charged with a third-degree felony, and very skeptical after he said this person was being held without bail.Doesn't sound plausible to me, either, based only on the description of that incident. But perhaps there's more to the story, or to the kid's past, that we don't know.

[triforcharity]

So, you are skeptical that he was arrested and charged with a felony and a misdemeanor?? Google Florida State Statues on false imprisonment. See what you come up with Deep.

Now, here is my official comment on this whole thing.

I do not currently have a copy of the arrest report, as it has not been released to me. I will however post it here for everyone to see exactly what it entails. I will NOT however release his name, my name, or really much else other than the official narritive, and that is really about it. PLUS, not to mention, this kid is a minor, so I am not able to LEGALLY release his name to ANYONE. Not even the mods.

I will send a true copy to the mods when I recieve it, and they can decide what they will do from there.

[dtugg]

Only because it reinforces a popular negative stereotype. If someone had a similar run-in with a debunker, wearing a JREF t-shirt, do you believe it would be accepted without any accompanying evidence? I don't.

If, say, RedIbis claimed that this happened to him, I would call BS. But that's only because Red is a notorious liar.

[triforcharity]

Why exactly would I lie about something like this Red and Deep??? This is a pretty small story in comparison to the truth movement claiming that FDNY helped bring down tower 7.

So, what would be the point of this. Red thinks that it is locker room grab-ass. That is idiotic, as I didn't loose my cool, and didn't stoop to his level. Would it have made more sense if I would have back over him like a speed bump??? Makes no sense.

Red,

Why would I continue to try to kick the guy when he is down?? Why?? I have compassion for mankind. That is why I am a firefighter, I enjoy helping others, even at my own expense. I have not recieved a letter from him as of yet, but, I know from friends, sometimes it takes longer to go through the jail to the outside mail carrier. Its not like they have their own mail box in their cell block.
The reason I presented myself for him to talk to is so he could become educated on the TRUTH (not your truth, but the REAL truth) about what happened that day. If it takes me 5 bucks or 20 bucks, I don't really care much. a 20 spot isn't going to break me. So, why not?? Help him understand what really happened that day, and open his eyes. If he could hear some of the experiences that I had that day, might make him change his mind on the FDNY as a whole.

Do you agree?? yes or no Red.

[R.Mackey]

Doesn't sound plausible to me, either, based only on the description of that incident. But perhaps there's more to the story, or to the kid's past, that we don't know.

I understood differently -- not "held without bail," but instead "couldn't afford to or chose not to post bail." The former would be surprising; the latter, not in the least.

[16.5]

How odd: I've watched as truthers executed a plan to physically impede my movements; tried to prevent me from posting literature; covered up my literature when it was posted; had them rip my literature out of my hands and tear it up; had them threaten lawsuits against me for alleged "traitorous" "criminal" and "libelous" behavior (including one such threat I just learned about last week); had them encourage other truthers to stalk me; had them investigate my background and call all around the country trying to get information about me; had them publicly accuse me of not being Mark Roberts, of not being a tour guide, of being a "dual citizen," a Jew, a Christian, a Bush administration shill, an MK-Ultra victim, an agent of the CIA, FBI, NSA, Mossad, Masons, Illuminati, and a victim of unscrupulous psychiatrists who work for the JREF. Several times I have seen truthers behave so disruptively that police told them they would be arrested if they continued. Several times I have seen what I feared to be public truther nervous breakdowns, including lying down and screaming. I have seen several videos of truthers being arrested for their disruptive behavior. I have seen truthers admit to their truthy activities leading to the dissolution of their relationships with family, friends, teachers, sigoths, and spouses. A truther set himself on fire for attention. Another went on a public hunger strike. Another murdered his father. Another faked his suicide during a radio show. Another was arrested while trying to run weapons to felons wanted by the FBI. Others have sworn to join armed militias or to have actually started a militia. One said he was digging a hole in his backyard to hide in. Hundreds stood outside Larry Silverstein's office building on 9/11 and chanted "Murderer!" Truthers have repeatedly said that someone should kill me and have repeatedly threatened me with all kinds of violence, including murder. Three times I felt that truther death threats against me merited police involvement, and each time the police did take action.

What a sheltered world RedIbis must inhabit, that he finds it impossible that a hotheaded truther kid would stand behind the car of someone he's had an argument with. Where the hell has RedIbis been all these years?

Hey, I just learned that Aldo the Buffet Slayer threatened to kick me in the teeth. I'd be worried, but c'mon, the likelihood of Aldo getting one of those hams above his waist is "slim."

Hee hee!

[Justin39640]

How odd: I've watched as truthers executed a plan to physically impede my movements; tried to prevent me from posting literature; covered up my literature when it was posted; had them rip my literature out of my hands and tear it up; had them threaten lawsuits against me for alleged "traitorous" "criminal" and "libelous" behavior (including one such threat I just learned about last week); had them encourage other truthers to stalk me; had them investigate my background and call all around the country trying to get information about me; had them publicly accuse me of not being Mark Roberts, of not being a tour guide, of being a "dual citizen," a Jew, a Christian, a Bush administration shill, an MK-Ultra victim, an agent of the CIA, FBI, NSA, Mossad, Masons, Illuminati, and a victim of unscrupulous psychiatrists who work for the JREF. Several times I have seen truthers behave so disruptively that police told them they would be arrested if they continued. Several times I have seen what I feared to be public truther nervous breakdowns, including lying down and screaming. I have seen several videos of truthers being arrested for their disruptive behavior. I have seen truthers admit to their truthy activities leading to the dissolution of their relationships with family, friends, teachers, sigoths, and spouses. A truther set himself on fire for attention. Another went on a public hunger strike. Another murdered his father. Another faked his suicide during a radio show. Another was arrested while trying to run weapons to felons wanted by the FBI. Others have sworn to join armed militias or to have actually started a militia. One said he was digging a hole in his backyard to hide in. Hundreds stood outside Larry Silverstein's office building on 9/11 and chanted "Murderer!" Truthers have repeatedly said that someone should kill me and have repeatedly threatened me with all kinds of violence, including murder. Three times I felt that truther death threats against me merited police involvement, and each time the police did take action.

What a sheltered world RedIbis must inhabit, that he finds it impossible that a hotheaded truther kid would stand behind the car of someone he's had an argument with. Where the hell has RedIbis been all these years?

i had an almost year long email debate with a truther
he threatened a few times to shoot me in the face
i didnt take him serious as he didnt have my identity, though i believed he would have
he is apparently a long island nazi as his emails were riddled with slogans and propaganda, he also always sent me emails that included "news" articles from white supremacist websites like they were links from cnn

but even though ive never had one threaten me face to face, seeing some of the reactions in yours and others videos, and reactions ive read all over the internet
tri's story doesnt shock me in the least

[~enigma~]

If triforcharity were to provide evidence supporting his OP to the admins of this forum, that would protect his privacy (much as T.A.M. did some time ago with his credentials). If the admins were to agree that the presented evidence did support the OP, would you accept that?
Hate to say it this way (actually I relish the chance), what is the need for trio to go through any contortions to pacify a treasonous jerk that blames the government and trios fellow firemen of murder?

[Audible Click]

QFT

[Steelmage]

The guy MIGHT have been 25 or so. Not real old, or too bright.

The reason the guy got arrested was for two reasons. First, blocking me from leaving, in the state of Florida, is false inprisonment. A felony. The second, harassing a public servant. Not a felony, but just a simple misdemeanor.

I think he lives in the next neighborhood over. Might have to have a crusie by there sometime when we are out at 3 am. Nothing says good morning like 120 db. of airhorn.

Truse me, I wanted him to try and take first swing. But, he, like most "truthers" are all talk, and no braun.

I thought you might mean no brain but I now understand it is no braun. But it can be both, as in this case, no braun or no brain.

[deep]

I understood differently -- not "held without bail," but instead "couldn't afford to or chose not to post bail." The former would be surprising; the latter, not in the least.


Here's the exact quote:

Now, he is being charged with a felony, and a misdemeanor. He is still in jail under no bail, as the judge deamed him a threat to the community. So, they gave him no bond. Yay!! The guy needs to be off the street.

[funk de fino]

It's my opinion. Argue against it but don't throw a tantrum.

There's only one proven liar in this thread so far.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Only because it reinforces a popular negative stereotype. If someone had a similar run-in with a debunker, wearing a JREF t-shirt, do you believe it would be accepted without any accompanying evidence? I don't.

I would if it was Troy from WV. For a "debunker" he plays it rather close to the edge.

"There is no cause so noble that it will not attract fuggheads"
- Larry Niven

[TruthersLie]

C'mon man. This is the last place people should be calling for such gentile language. Just look at the demonization of Twoofers and everything associated with it. Now, I say I don't believe the guy's story and people here get indignant. Seriously, it's ridiculous.

What's at stake was all of this locker room backslapping and fantasizing about violence against the evil Twoofers.

No.

It isn't that you just said "I don't believe this guy's story."

Is your reading and writing comprehension that bad?

what did you say? proven false. exposed as a fabrication.

please provide a citation to show you "exposing" this as a fabrication. Any citation would suffice.

Otherwise you have just slandered a member here. Do you have proof it is a fabrication? Yes or no?

it really is a simple question.

[Stellafane]

Isn't this a skeptic's site, where extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof?

What the hell is extraordinary about a Truther acting stupid? I would have been vastly more shocked if a Truther actually said or did something that makes a lick of sense.

In other words, this guy needs to verify his story before anyone goes firing up the lynch mob.

You really, really, really, really don't get it, do you? I don't care what you think. I don't care what your opinion is. When you state that something has been "exposed as a fabrication," that isn't just some turn of phrase, or a random combination of words. You're stating something as a fact.

See the three words I underlined in the preceding paragraph? Well guess what: They're not equivalent. You don't simply get to say things as if they're facts, based on what you happen to think -- especially when what you think is based upon nothing more than "I don't like it."

Of course, if you were even feebly able to grasp this basic concept, so necessary to lead a normal life among rational adults, you wouldn't be a Truther. Because if there were some miracle pill that restored someone's ability to distinguish reality from fantasy, they'd instantly see that the whole 9/11 CT is a despicable load of crap, and that they've been wasting their lives making the worst kind of stupid fools of themselves.

If that's what you want to do, spend your time in a playpen of stupidity, then hey, whatever floats your boat, dude. But when you accuse someone else of being a liar -- which you did when you baldly stated TriForCharity's story was a fabrication, instead of stating something like "I don't believe it" -- then you have done something that only the most juvenile of losers will do. And the punch line will be that when you are proven wrong, which I personally believe is very likely, you'll either not accept the evidence (a tried-and-true Truther tactic) or you'll just act like it never happened, like you never publicly insulted someone who was simply recounting a small personal anecdote. Because to Truthers, people aren't real, they're just props in a strange little universe of their own making, a fevered, random intermingling of reality and imagination. And that's a problem that extends far beyond any infatuation with what really happened on September 11, 2001.

[RedIbis]

How odd: I've watched as truthers executed a plan to physically impede my movements; tried to prevent me from posting literature; covered up my literature when it was posted; had them rip my literature out of my hands and tear it up; had them threaten lawsuits against me for alleged "traitorous" "criminal" and "libelous" behavior (including one such threat I just learned about last week); had them encourage other truthers to stalk me; had them investigate my background and call all around the country trying to get information about me; had them publicly accuse me of not being Mark Roberts, of not being a tour guide, of being a "dual citizen," a Jew, a Christian, a Bush administration shill, an MK-Ultra victim, an agent of the CIA, FBI, NSA, Mossad, Masons, Illuminati, and a victim of unscrupulous psychiatrists who work for the JREF. Several times I have seen truthers behave so disruptively that police told them they would be arrested if they continued. Several times I have seen what I feared to be public truther nervous breakdowns, including lying down and screaming. I have seen several videos of truthers being arrested for their disruptive behavior. I have seen truthers admit to their truthy activities leading to the dissolution of their relationships with family, friends, teachers, sigoths, and spouses. A truther set himself on fire for attention. Another went on a public hunger strike. Another murdered his father. Another faked his suicide during a radio show. Another was arrested while trying to run weapons to felons wanted by the FBI. Others have sworn to join armed militias or to have actually started a militia. One said he was digging a hole in his backyard to hide in. Hundreds stood outside Larry Silverstein's office building on 9/11 and chanted "Murderer!" Truthers have repeatedly said that someone should kill me and have repeatedly threatened me with all kinds of violence, including murder. Three times I felt that truther death threats against me merited police involvement, and each time the police did take action.

What a sheltered world RedIbis must inhabit, that he finds it impossible that a hotheaded truther kid would stand behind the car of someone he's had an argument with. Where the hell has RedIbis been all these years?

Gravy,
Make a decision. Either ignore me or don't. Either retire or don't. But if you chime in the thread and address me directly expect a response and the expectation of civil discourse or there would be no reason to get involved in this discussion.

The quoted post of course is a helpful illustration with what's wrong with this so-called debunking. As usual it's all about you, and then you premise the entire post on a fabrication, a lie, to use your favorite word.

First, where did I say I find "it impossible that a hotheaded truther kid would stand behind the car of someone he's had an argument with"? I said I don't believe this story about this kid, as described by tricharity. There's a difference.

Secondly, just by sheer probability there are going to be people who engage in bad, even criminal behavior, whether they support inside job theories or they don't. What you are doing, and what is done far too often around here is conflating the behavior of all people who argue the official story and putting them under the big tent of Truther.

You would lose a great deal of your rhetoric if you had to see your opponents as individuals and treat them as such. This conflation and marginalization is the cheapest of rhetorical tactics and allows you to demonize an entire group of people. This is directly related to the response that the OP got. There was a willingness to accept the entire story without even a murmur of skepticism because it fit expectations of a Truther, a non-existent monolithic entity, more the product of imagination than reality.

[Dave Rogers]

I said I don't believe this story about this kid, as described by tricharity. There's a difference.

But you didn't stop there. You said this story about this kid had been exposed as a fabrication. That was a lie.

Dave

[RedIbis]

This whole, sad episode is just another example of why the Truth Movement is a skid mark beside the road of human development.

The rational response, upon hearing this anecdote, is to acknowledge that the behavior described by the OP is reprehensible. If you're really here for an honest, productive conversation, you would never harass someone just because he wore an FDNY T-shirt. Ever. You would also distance yourself from anyone who did.

But no, you'd rather attack the messenger. You automatically assume that (a) no Truther could ever act like that -- despite scads of evidence to the contrary... bullhorns outside Larry Silverstein's office on the 5th anniversary, anyone? -- and hence (b) anyone who opposes you must be lying, embellishing, multifarious, whatever; leading us to (c) the correct response is to attack.

Dead wrong.

This is why the Truth Movement, to this day, is riddled with "big top" thinking, running the gamut from the clinically insane to the neo-Nazi.

If you want to convince people you aren't a bunch of nuts, this is absolutely the wrong way to do it. Grow up.

Another post that perfectly illustrates my point.

a) you appropriated the false premise that I "automatically assume that (a) no Truther could ever act like that -- despite scads of evidence to the contrary... "

It's explained above that I never said that and only questioned tri's story. However, you already knew that.

b) you've provided a stunning example of the type of marginalization I describe in my previous post. Since I'm obviously a Truther, where would I fit in this neatly marginalized desciption: "from the clinically insane to the neo-Nazi." ?

[RedIbis]

But you didn't stop there. You said this story about this kid had been exposed as a fabrication. That was a lie.

Dave

For it to be a lie, it would have to be proven 100% correct. It hasn't and that's the whole point here. You didn't even bother to ask him to verify even the smallest of his charming details.

[16.5]

Gravy, whiny BS snipped

It has been more than 24 hours since you made this claim:

"His story is exposed as a fabrication."

It is time for you to support your claim, Red, no more changing the subject, no more ******** equivocations:

Put up, or for god’s sake shut up.

/"it fit expectations of a Truther." I would agree that your baseless claims and refusal to provide one bit of evidence to support them other than an argument from incredulity and rank ignorance has more than filled our expectations.

[Dave Rogers]

For it to be a lie, it would have to be proven 100% correct.

No, it wouldn't. For it to be true, specific information would have to have been presented that demonstrated the story to be false. Its current status is that its truth value is unknown, so your statement that it had been exposed as a fabrication was untrue. You knew that no such event had taken place, so your statement was a lie. And what's worse is that you know perfectly well that it was a lie, and you're now trying to confuse the issue to pretend it wasn't. And this is exactly what we've come to expect from the truth movement; tell a lie, then try to pretend it wasn't a lie, then say you're searching for the truth. Lies and hypocrisy.

Dave

[16.5]

For it to be a lie, it would have to be proven 100% correct. It hasn't and that's the whole point here. You didn't even bother to ask him to verify even the smallest of his charming details.

Wow, that is stundie worthy, absolutely stundie worthy.

You claimed it was exposed as a fabrication, and we have asked you to show us where and how.

And you have refused to do so, and you have whined ever since being called on it. Because you know that you can't justify your claim. Because it is a fabrication.

[dtugg]

I don't understand why RedIbis bothers to tell such obvious lies. It's not as if he ever fools anybody with them. All he does is further expose himself as a despicable liar.

[Myriad]

First, where did I say I find "it impossible that a hotheaded truther kid would stand behind the car of someone he's had an argument with"? I said I don't believe this story about this kid, as described by tricharity. There's a difference.


You said that triforcharity's account "has been exposed as a fabrication." There's a difference.

Gravy was probably giving you too much credit by assuming that you had a rationale for claiming triforcharity's account has been exposed as a fabrication, other than you personally not believing his story, which no sane person would equate with exposing the story as a fabrication.

That kind of false certitude is common to all dedicated Truthers. Yes, every single individual one of them. Those who lack it don't stay Truthers long. "Something that convinces me" = "a smoking gun." "I believe" = "it's now established." "I don't believe" = "it's been exposed as false." "I'm convinced" = "it's the beginning of the end for the OCT." "There are questions that should be investigated" = "9/11 was an inside job."

The phrase "a smoking gun" used to mean a single piece or small body of evidence that is so definitive and incontrovertible as to falsify all competing hypotheses. There might still be a few naifs around who still expect it to mean that when a Truther uses it. They might even think a Truther is lying by calling an irrelevant, false, unsourced, or otherwise useless claim a "smoking gun." But really, the Truther is just exhibiting the usual false certitude and empty words. To call it a lie is to attribute more weight to it than it deserves, like calling a five year old a liar for claiming that his mommy is the best mommy in the world.

Thus, I believe (note the lack of a claim of incontrovertible fact here) that others are being very uncharitable by calling your claim that triforcharity's account "has been exposed as a fabrication" a lie. More likely it was, instead, just an ingrained knee-jerk claim rooted in false certitude with no meaning, intention, or thought behind it.

However, please be aware that there are many who, not realizing that such claims actually mean absolutely nothing even to the people making them, might mistake them for dishonesty, arrogance, disrespect, ignorance, irrationality, hatred, or malice.

Respectfully,
Myriad