Ray comfort and Thunderf00t discussion.

[zerospeaks]

Here is the discussion between Ray Comfort and thunderf00t.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2FskTKrx40&feature=related


Thunderf00t is the infamous youtube creator of "why people laugh at creationist' video series.

Ray comfort is an infamous creationist.

It is a 9 part discussion where the two sit down to have a little chat about the opposing views they share.

After watching, what do you think?

Personally, although I am on the side of thunderf00t, I think he is horrible in live debate and should not do this again.

[Ginarley]

I just finished watching the videos. I think thunderf00t did a reasonable job although he faces the same problem many atheists do which is to want to take something that someone says and to try and understand and develop it. It seems to me that theists expect you to ignore what they said and just say what you want to say - it all goes backwards when you actually respond specifically to their point. People like Hitchens can kind of do both which is why he is arguably an effective debater but it is really a lost cause for any normal person to try and have a reasoned discussion with someone like Comfort.

I also found it remarkable how difficult Comfort found it to focus on a single point - he simply couldn't do it. I used to think it was a deliberate tactic but now I just think he can't do it...

[egodbois]

I've been a fan of Thunderf00t's work for a long time now. If it wasn't for him I probably wouldn't visit youtube more than once or twice a month for the odd viral video.

He seems to be a very intelligent, witty guy.

That being said I'm pretty unhappy with the Ray Comfort discussion. Not because I feel "my side" lost or that it came out as a draw. But because nothing really tickled my intellectual vanity. Comfort essentially just used the "god did it" argument, which got old. I would have preferred more verbal sparring and colorful language with less returning to a default position whenever something got hairy.

f00t on the other hand needs more practice. While it took iron clad testicles to do what he did (call out a high profile creationist, travel across the country on his own dime, and proceed to have a filmed discussion without prior experience), he isn't a good unprepared speaker.

Which is fine. Neither am I.

In the end of things I would have preferred an hour and a half of "Why do people laugh at creationists?" or AronRa (another popular atheist youtuber) eviscerating I.D. But hopefully this gives him experience and drive to experiment again.

[Vortigern99]

Hmmm. I'm reticent to watch the vid because I'm an admirer of Thunderf00t's "Why/creationists" series, and I don't want to see one of my "heroes" grasp and struggle to hold his own in a debate which by rights he should slam dunk point after point.

I'm reminded of an old video that used to play on the local "Access" cable channel, an early "Creationism vs. evolution" debate in which the host, a Creationist preacher, employed his career-building skills of charm and public speaking to dance circles around the meek, mumble-mouthed nerdling professor who was there representing science. The scientist was well-informed of course, but he wasted time on irrelevant information, basically delivering a schoolroom lecture that was not designed to convince or persuade. He ran out of time somewhere in the Cretaceous Era, as I recall.

Part of Thuderf00t's "genius", if you will, is his capacity to persuade, using colorful analogies and plain language to drive his fact-based points home. That's all from a prepared script, however, recorded at his own pace into editable media. I can't bear to think of him stammering and stuttering ineffectively when facing a living, breathing, rhetoric-spouting opponent. :(

[egodbois]

Hmmm. I'm reticent to watch the vid because I'm an admirer of Thunderf00t's "Why/creationists" series, and I don't want to see one of my "heroes" grasp and struggle to hold his own in a debate which by rights he should slam dunk point after point.

I'm reminded of an old video that used to play on the local "Access" cable channel, an early "Creationism vs. evolution" debate in which the host, a Creationist preacher, employed his career-building skills of charm and public speaking to dance circles around the meek, mumble-mouthed nerdling professor who was there representing science. The scientist was well-informed of course, but he wasted time on irrelevant information, basically delivering a schoolroom lecture that was not designed to convince or persuade. He ran out of time somewhere in the Cretaceous Era, as I recall.

Part of Thuderf00t's "genius", if you will, is his capacity to persuade, using colorful analogies and plain language to drive his fact-based points home. That's all from a prepared script, however, recorded at his own pace into editable media. I can't bear to think of him stammering and stuttering ineffectively when facing a living, breathing, rhetoric-spouting opponent. :(

I agree with you whole heartedly. He was far from meek in the videos, though. It was clear toward the end that Ray wanted to get it over with and go have lunch, and that f00t wanted to continue. He even had the balls to whip out a bible, complete with fifty or sixty bookmarks and start challenging scripture. Which is pretty impressive, considering Comfort professes to reading the Bible every day for 35 years or some such.

But yes, I would have preferred to not have the image of f00t stuttering and stammering rattling around in my head.

[zerospeaks]

When f00t said, "If god said pedophilia was ok, would it be ok?"

I thought he nailed him!

The slick snake oil salesman would not answer though.

[joobz]

I wished he pushed harder on the point to compare Comfort's method to scientology.


Other than that, it was not very good.

[jasonpatterson]

I tried watching these, but in spite of the fact that I suscribe to the guy's youtube channel, I just couldn't take it. Neither side did anything particularly new or exciting, and that's to be expected.

[ObscureReferenceMan]

I liked the videos. But it's too bad, that Ray is SOOOO willfully ignorant. No matter what evidence TF (or anyone) shows, he will not change his mind. Kind of makes any "discussions" meaningless.

[Questioninggeller]

But because nothing really tickled my intellectual vanity. Comfort essentially just used the "god did it" argument, which got old. I would have preferred more verbal sparring and colorful language with less returning to a default position whenever something got hairy.

I agree basically with you, but my main issue is that its Comfort in the debate.

Comfort has nothing to bring to the table other than a 12 year olds misunderstanding of evolution, seriously. With nonsense statements like their are no "missing links" there is just going to be a boring response of "when they are found they aren't missing" followed by "Here are some transitional forms we found (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html)..."

Really, while Thunderf00t wasn't great, hearing Comfort talk is very boring. At least with fools like Kent Hovind or Michael Behe--they try to do science and get blown out the water when they are caught lying, misunderstanding, misquoting, or misrepresenting that science. And that's what makes for a good debate: things that actually get addressed with evidence.

Comfort's "God did it" and denials of basic scientific fact are not interesting. So the responses likewise aren't going to be anymore interesting. For the record, Thunderf00t did good for a first time debater.

Why I think this is bad idea is another matter. The sad part is you know Comfort's going use clips of Thunderf00ts responses out of context in Comfort's videos. That's why its better not to address these cranks. I don't think Thunderf00t is a scientist, but even still talking to people like Comfort is a waste of time and will get used by Comfort to support himself.

Thunderf00t - Ray Comfort discussion (Part 6)
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This is a classic part of the debate. Thunderf00t brings something up, Comfort changes the subject. It's uninteresting.

[zerospeaks]

Question, I don't want to nominate you for best language use, but definitely! best post I have seen this week.

Good analysis!
Nice post!

[Questioninggeller]

Comfort posted an advertising clip for the debate DVD that his ministry is selling.

ALFmuvbKE-M

Rather than post the entire debate, he posted 1:32 of it and is selling the thing. From the ad I think we can see Comfort's interest in the debate now.

[zerospeaks]

OH MY FSM!!

He is selling it?

We should all have such easy jobs.

I'm going to start selling my PM's now.

[egodbois]

Your link says removed by the user. I gave Ray the benefit of the doubt and thought that maybe he thought better of it.

Nope.

Live link: [edit: meh. I don't have enough posts for links. You can find it by going on youtube and searching for "thewayofthemaster"]

[Olowkow]

I am a fan of Thunderf00t's videos, but as an extemporaneous speaker, he is a disaster. Too bad, I could not survive the stuttering.
What I did notice at one point though, it seems that Comfort is actually trying to follow the arguments, but he just cannot get it. I used to think he was just automatically gainsaying any argument.

[Legend]

Big fan of TF and agree with most of what's said here.

It is hard to debate a creationist at the best of times, and he looks like someone who naturally isn't good at a live debate, as it's called.

Alex.