Comp wont boot up? Hard drive gone blank

[Corpse Cruncher]

Any help or ideas to get around this problem is begged for. PLEASE!!!!

Yesterday while doing an iso image of a dvd the computer started acting up. I thought I had put in a dodge disc to burn, so changed it and the same thing occurred. It appeared the computer had forgot I had a DVD drive.

It had been running sluggish prior to this so I just restarted it, as it cured it of this before. So I thought.

On reboot it froze. Second attempt and it said to push cntrl alt del to restart. I did and.......... the same message reappeared time and time again. It wouldn't go further.


I inserted the recovery CD and it wanted to install the OS and format the complete hard drive. I stopped that. I then restarted and it allowed me to go into the recovery console. I type in chkdsk and chkdsk C:/ r and nothing happened other than a message saying bad something about bad bits.

I typed in fixmbr, I stopped that as it wanted to wipe the hard drive out.


I put in a seagate recovery disk and nothing appeared to work, the dvd drive blinked but nothing appeared on the screen.

I then put in a paragon rescue disk and at least it came up with options. None of which worked. It appeared my hard drive was blank??????????? I didn't understand about copying bits off the drive as it appeared to be only computer jargon and nothing of my stuff.

Now it won't boot up at all, it goes into its bios screen, then then the two black screens and stays put there. Hard drive light goes on and it sounds as though it is working.

I got my old on very last legs computer and attached the hard drive to it. It was red hot as was the inside of my computer. All fans appear to be on and working. I can't open the drive, the properties state it is blank. To open it, it wants to format the drive. It appears to be working so I don't think the hard drive is the problem, I just don't know.

First what went wrong and what part is at fault? The hard drive is just over a year old, it was almost full but still had over 200 free of the 750. I don't understand how it got wiped or why it wouldn't reboot back?

Is there any chance of recovering the contents of the drive. It contains my eating diary which I need for when I go to St mark's to see them. That is my main concern. I don't want to format it and lose everything that was on it.

Help please.:confused:

[Corpse Cruncher]

As the computer I am using is very on it's last legs I can do brief replies to prolong its life as I am well and truely stuffed if this goes poof too.:(

[DuckOnWarpath]

If the HD was formatted as NTFS, but the old PC only recognises FAT, I doubt it could read the HD. Is that the case?

[dtugg]

I am not sure what happened to your hard drive and I really have no idea how you would go about restoring the whole thing. But if the hard drive isn't physically damaged (possible) you should be able to easily recover any files so long as they were not overwritten (unlikely). Try Recuva (www.recuva.com). It's free, easy to use, and it works. You can get it to scan for all the files on your hard drive by file name or type of file. I hope this helps.

[Rasmus]

I would recommend to copy the dodgy drive before you try anything else. I'd recommend clonezilla but you're probably going to have to bribe our resident geek into helping you with that.

[Oliver]

Yep, get a new drive, install an OS and recover the data from the old, corrupt ones.

[Corpse Cruncher]

If the HD was formatted as NTFS, but the old PC only recognises FAT, I doubt it could read the HD. Is that the case?
HD was in the NTS format, with XP on it, and worked perfectly well upto the point it went the computer had a senile moment. As said upto that point it was OK, bit sluggish but I put that down to running out of space, which is what I was sorting through to back-up. Which I didn't get the chance to.:mad:

This was the first time the whole thing wouldn't boot up.

[Corpse Cruncher]

I am not sure what happened to your hard drive and I really have no idea how you would go about restoring the whole thing. But if the hard drive isn't physically damaged (possible) you should be able to easily recover any files so long as they were not overwritten (unlikely). Try Recuva (http://www.recuva.com). It's free, easy to use, and it works. You can get it to scan for all the files on your hard drive by file name or type of file. I hope this helps.

Right will give recuva a go. I read it might be able to recover deleted phone pictures. Which is handy as I have lost all my recent holiday pics.

Until it's gone you don't realise how much you have lost.:(

[Corpse Cruncher]

quote=Rasmus;4950041]I would recommend to copy the dodgy drive before you try anything else. I'd recommend clonezilla but you're probably going to have to bribe our resident geek into helping you with that.[/quote]

Added that to the list. Are acronis or Paragon the same kind of thing?
I can't remember the names exactly but I did have something like Paragon Partition Manager and Acronis true Image.

Which geek do I need to blackmail beg?

Is this worth a shot of trying to solve the problem. Ultimate Boot CD 4.1.1 (http://www.v3.co.uk/vnunet/downloads/2158286/ultimate-boot-cd) As mine seems to have now no OS on it?

The HD appears to work, I have an external enclosure and from another compy, can poke around in it. The lights go from green to red on the enclosure indicating something is working. So I think the HD is not a machinary problem.

Software or virus, could one of those cause something like this to occur? I did a scan, antivirus, spyware and malware fortnight ago. Spyware was again, done about 2 days prior and all seeemed clean. All products were upto date.

[Corpse Cruncher]

Ok have clone and *dunce* don't understand how to use it. So not done any cloning.

Ran Recuva and got this message, "unable to determine file system type" ? I take that is a bad news message.

Does this mean I am seriously screwed and have no chance of trying to get any of my things off the HD?

[dtugg]

What must have happened is that the header on the drive somehow got corrupted. I found some software (http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Download) that may be able to restore it. If it works, you whole drive might be fixed and you could just pop it into the computer and use it like nothing happened.

If that doesn't work and you are desperate, you could format the drive so recuva will recognize it and then try again. I just tested it and it will still work. Formatting a drive doesn't actually erase anything.

[Corpse Cruncher]

What must have happened is that the header on the drive somehow got corrupted. I found some software (http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Download) that may be able to restore it. If it works, you whole drive might be fixed and you could just pop it into the computer and use it like nothing happened.

If that doesn't work and you are desperate, you could format the drive so recuva will recognize it and then try again. I just tested it and it will still work. Formatting a drive doesn't actually erase anything.

Right then I will download that and give it a try. I'll download both windows and dos version. One of them might work on the drive.

Failing that I will format the damn thing and scream curses like no man's heard before if things don't start heading in the right direction.

[Rasmus]

Formatting may very well delete anything that is left on the drive!

I am fit enough using clonezilla and other products, but not fit enough to reliable talk you through what you need to do, unfortunately.

I seriously recommend you get help locally. Someone around there must know about computers, right?

Getting a full copy of the drive ASAP has several benefits:

If it's the hardware you have made a copy before the drive might physically fail.

If oyu make a mistake during the recovery process, you have a copy you can fall back on.

[Corpse Cruncher]

Not tottalu sure of what this means but the software dtugg suggested says the file system is messed up. Keep reading fat32 or 16 as it runs through the tests. The HD appears to be working fine.

Tad too advance for me to understand I just keep clicking on anything that doesn't mean delete so far. At least this seems to have done something even if it too baffle me.

[dtugg]

Formatting may very well delete anything that is left on the drive!

Sort of but not really. If he formatted the drive, he wouldn't be able to see anything that's on it in explorer but it would still be there. So long as the data isn't overwritten, it's still recoverable, and formatting the disk doesn't overwrite anything but the partition headers. I tested this and I was able to recover everything on a partition that I formatted.


I am fit enough using clonezilla and other products, but not fit enough to reliable talk you through what you need to do, unfortunately.

I seriously recommend you get help locally. Someone around there must know about computers, right?

Getting a full copy of the drive ASAP has several benefits:

If it's the hardware you have made a copy before the drive might physically fail.

If oyu make a mistake during the recovery process, you have a copy you can fall back on.

Is it possible to clone a drive that isn't formatted?

[dtugg]

Not tottalu sure of what this means but the software dtugg suggested says the file system is messed up. Keep reading fat32 or 16 as it runs through the tests. The HD appears to be working fine.

Tad too advance for me to understand I just keep clicking on anything that doesn't mean delete so far. At least this seems to have done something even if it too baffle me.

Yeah, that didn't seem to user friendly and I'm not familiar with it at all.

I found another piece of free software (http://download.cnet.com/Partition-Wizard-Home-Edition/3000-2094_4-10962200.html?tag=mncol)that might help you. I was able to totally restore a partition easily using this. Go to wizard>partition recovery wizard.

[dtugg]

There's also Partition Table Doctor (http://ptdd.com/ptdmoreinfo.htm) (website doesn't work in IE for some reason). It costs $50 but it's probably worth it if you can't get anything else to work. You can download the demo and that will probably tell you if it can fix the drive although I'm sure it won't do any fixing unless you pay the money.

[Rasmus]

Sort of but not really. If he formatted the drive, he wouldn't be able to see anything that's on it in explorer but it would still be there. So long as the data isn't overwritten, it's still recoverable, and formatting the disk doesn't overwrite anything but the partition headers. I tested this and I was able to recover everything on a partition that I formatted.

You may well be right, but I thought that would just be a "quick format"?

Is it possible to clone a drive that isn't formatted?

http://clonezilla.org/

Yes, you can! The entire drive will be copied bit by bit, regardless of what individual bits "mean" under any disk format. Afterwards, you will have two broken disks, of course, but you can then safely try to fix the original one without risking to just make things worse.

[Corpse Cruncher]

I am getting horribly confused with this thing. Seems I have a boot error. Sorry I can't remember the exact words it said. Looking around there looks like a fix it thing so I will try that first. If not its another attempt at cloning, then formatting the dratted thing.


Clonezilla didn't seem to work for me last time. It is very not nincompoop friendly.:( Can I do it via Vista, as in run it as my current (newtoday care of hubby) computer does allow me to boot up using another HD etc. So I've attached the sick HD to a usb connector and plugged it in. I am assuming on booting up using the clonezilla disc I should, in theory, get to take a picture of the attached HD without damaging the new machine?


I assume I let Vista format it, as it likes to demand everytime I try and peek in the HD's contents?

P.s I'm a woman :D

[dtugg]

You may well be right, but I thought that would just be a "quick format"?

In Vista and Win 7, it will overwrite all the data with 0s if you choose to do a full format although quick format is checked by default. In XP it doesn't overwrite data for a full format. I think the difference between a full format and a quick format in XP is that the former checks the disk for bad sectors.


http://clonezilla.org/

Yes, you can! The entire drive will be copied bit by bit, regardless of what individual bits "mean" under any disk format. Afterwards, you will have two broken disks, of course, but you can then safely try to fix the original one without risking to just make things worse.

Cool. I would definitely do this if I were the OP.

[dtugg]

I assume I let Vista format it, as it likes to demand everytime I try and peek in the HD's contents?

Yes. If you decide to do that just let Vista do it. But make sure that quick format is checked (it should be by default), otherwise, as I explained above, it will overwrite all the data with zeros and it will be impossible to recover anything.


P.s I'm a woman :D

Ooops. Sorry. :o

[Dogbreath]

It sound like you are describing a hard drive where the sectors have gone bad.
I have not used it, but there is a utility from Steve Gibson called Spinrite. http://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm

From what I understand when a hard drive not, the operating system but the hard drive detects a bad sector (physical locations on the drive) is bad it marks it not to use it and tries to copy the data to another sector. When you said the system was sluggish it was probably detecting bad sectors and trying to move the data around. Eventually if enough sectors go bad the drive fails. The above utility is not cheap it runs $89 dollars. Which is actually cheap compared to paying someone to recover your data. The utility will try to "repair" the drive. If it can repair it, you then copy the contents of the drive to another drive. The old drive is then ready for the scrap heap (although it is kind of cool to dismantle them and play with the magnets - be careful). You will need to decide how much you are willing to pay in time and money to recover your data.

[Corpse Cruncher]

Yes. If you decide to do that just let Vista do it. But make sure that quick format is checked (it should be by default), otherwise, as I explained above, it will overwrite all the data with zeros and it will be impossible to recover anything.



Ooops. Sorry. :o
Apology not needed, the giggle it gave me was well needed.:D

It looks as though I will have to format it and I had a rough go yesterday and I can do a quick format via Vista. So that is one thing in my favour.

Worringly though my problem is a common event. It looks as though it is Windows that causes this problem and it has been going on since 2003. I don't quite understand the hows but there are many of us across the HD brand board all with my problem. See the thread about Western Drive failure. Eerie coincidence.


Clonezilla didn't work, it cloned my Vista HD, the duff one nothing. I did the same and when I logged back into Vista the Seagate image wasn't there. All I could see was a message 'device not present', or similiar message in clonezilla.

So I am assuming it can't clone the duff drive either?

I am going to give it another go and see if it is just me doing something wrong in the commands, than the software.

[Corpse Cruncher]

It sound like you are describing a hard drive where the sectors have gone bad.
I have not used it, but there is a utility from Steve Gibson called Spinrite. http://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm

From what I understand when a hard drive not, the operating system but the hard drive detects a bad sector (physical locations on the drive) is bad it marks it not to use it and tries to copy the data to another sector. When you said the system was sluggish it was probably detecting bad sectors and trying to move the data around. Eventually if enough sectors go bad the drive fails. The above utility is not cheap it runs $89 dollars. Which is actually cheap compared to paying someone to recover your data. The utility will try to "repair" the drive. If it can repair it, you then copy the contents of the drive to another drive. The old drive is then ready for the scrap heap (although it is kind of cool to dismantle them and play with the magnets - be careful). You will need to decide how much you are willing to pay in time and money to recover your data.

Thanks.
I'd refer not to pay, but if needs must. So far none of the software offered has worked. I don't have much faith in a product I have to pay for when the free ones can't do the job, through no fault of their own.

I'll add it to the list and wait and see.

As for taking the HD apart, that I will do. It would be a fitting end to something that has got me so riled up.

[Arthur ASCII]

My son recently had this same problem on his PC and I fixed it using either FIXBOOT or FIXMBR (which you mentioned in the OP) - can't remember which one worked now though. I don't think either are destructive but they would overwrite BOOT.INI or the master boot record on a working disk, hence the warning.

I think you would be OK to use both commands, but I would recommend reading up on them first.

Good luck with it,

Arthur

[Dogbreath]

the spinrite program is for when you are desperate to get data off a drive as in oops! I forgot to do a backup now all my digital photos for the past five years are gone. Since the computer will not recognize the drive the free utilities mentioned assume the system can see the drive. If there is no data you need to recover then I would write off the drive and buy a new one. I usually get computer parts from newegg.com I have been buying from them for years now. I am assuming the drive is IDE. You can get a 160GB drive for under $50.

[Dogbreath]

I have a stack of drives that have failed on me over the years. I have used a linksys SLUG with external drives attached to use as a network backup. I am starting to look at the Data Robotics Drobro. You put in multiple drives and it spreads the data across the drives and when a drive fails you can hot swap a drive and it will rebuild, giving access to the data at a reduce rate in the mean time. Its a lot more expensive that an external drive but short of a fire or other disaster it should be able to keep data safe. As the hard drive manufacturers try to squeeze more capacity they are hitting the limits of the disk platters.

[monoman]

I once had a hard-drive die on me and nothing I tried allowed me to recover my files, until ..... I installed KNOPPIX onto a CD and booted from it.
KNOPPIX is linux on a CD, and seems to be a lot more tolerant of bad drives than windows.
Once you boot up, hopefully, you'll be able to see your corrupted drive and copy your files over to another. You can even browse the internet if you need additional help.

[Corpse Cruncher]

I'll look up more on fixmbr etc and Knoppix before embarking on more hair pulling.

[Corpse Cruncher]

Did the knoppix, looks nice but way too technical for me to even attempt. I really need to read the information on that before embarking on that.

What I did see on knoppix desktop was the HD in question, when I called it up Knoppix says there is no valid file system. The other HD's it showed them to be Vista etc.

Does that ring any bells with anybody?

[Syameese]

if you don't need the data buy a new drive.

If you want to try and recover the data buy spinrite - it is an amazing utility.

[Corpse Cruncher]

Just trying a utility getbackdata for ntfs. Free to try, buy if it finds the data. At least I will know if the data is intact before going ahead with anything else.

[monoman]

Did the knoppix, looks nice but way too technical for me to even attempt. I really need to read the information on that before embarking on that.

What I did see on knoppix desktop was the HD in question, when I called it up Knoppix says there is no valid file system. The other HD's it showed them to be Vista etc.

Does that ring any bells with anybody?

Yes that rings a bell though it's a couple of years since I used it.
I think you need to do some kind of command line so that knoppix can read ntfs (though it won't be able to write it).
I'll have a quick search for you...

[monoman]

From this link (http://www.shockfamily.net/cedric/knoppix/) it seems knoppix has native ntfs support now. Maybe it did when I used it but I've forgotten.
From the sounds of it, maybe even knoppix can't read your bad drive. The only other hope is that it needs mounting or something. A linux person will have to help you out on that one.

One other thing I read was that knoppix uses xp drivers now to read an ntfs drive, which suggests that if windows can't read it, then knoppix won't be able to either. So, one more hope maybe downloading an older version of knoppix. Again, you'll need a linux person to help you out there.

Good luck!

[Corpse Cruncher]

YAY!!!!

Using getdataback revealed my files are still there. I'm still looking through random files to check they are all there.It took along time but it did locate them. There was me all skeptical that this thing worked.

Next task to get them off, which I hope should be as simple as copy them over before getting on with the next issue. Then its a matter of sorting the HD out so it can be used at the very least. At best the entire Hd contents will be accessable.

[Corpse Cruncher]

Does this ring any bells?

Division overflow error?

[Corpse Cruncher]

I think I have exhausted enough on this now. The drive spins, Spinrite does not work on large capacity drives. I have a rive full of red secotrs, a whole drive full of bad sectors it said.

Upshot I found out the HD is covered under warrenty by Seagate, They apparrently warrent the HD's for 5 years. So I will be sending it back to them for replacment.

Is there anyway I can wipe the data? The drive won't run fdisk, chkdsk or format and most partition have failed as the drive won't read or accept changes.

[BigAl]

I think I have exhausted enough on this now. The drive spins, Spinrite does not work on large capacity drives. I have a rive full of red secotrs, a whole drive full of bad sectors it said.

Upshot I found out the HD is covered under warrenty by Seagate, They apparrently warrent the HD's for 5 years. So I will be sending it back to them for replacment.

Is there anyway I can wipe the data? The drive won't run fdisk, chkdsk or format and most partition have failed as the drive won't read or accept changes.

Go to the Seagate web site and download a utility that might be called "drive fitness test". It will make a bootable floppy disk or maybe an ISO file that can be burned into a CD and booted. The utility will test the disk and possibly return fault codes that Seagate will need to give you a return authorization.

If the disk isn't completely dead, the utility has commands to overwrite the data and reset the disk to factory settings which will do a good-enough job of deleting your data.

If the disk has died, your data might be recoverable if it's worth someone's time to spend big bucks on it. Do you thing Seagate, which gets Dog knows how many dead disks every day has time to rummage through yours?

If your data is really valuable to you, eat the cost of a new disk and smash the dead one with a sledge hammer. (I worked for a company that smashed disks on a regular basis, and this was when disks cost a lot more than they do now. )

[Wudang]

Giveaway of the day today is paragon rescue kit.

http://www.giveawayoftheday.com/paragon-rescue-kit-8-5/

[Corpse Cruncher]

Giveaway of the day today is paragon rescue kit.

http://www.giveawayoftheday.com/paragon-rescue-kit-8-5/
I think it was paragon or acronis that did the damage in the first place. I did try paragon's rescue disc and it wouldn't work.