Living Without Money -

[Fat Bottom Gurl]

Daniel Suelo, 48, has lived in a cave in Utah for the past 9 years - giving up money. He maintains a blog called Zerocurrency and a website Living Without Money.

I can't help but wonder whether Mr. Suelo's existence is only feasible because of the society around him - he lives on their castoffs and forages. But, he also is a sought after "house sitter" so he is not always living in a cave. He also uses the library facilities (which use taxpayer dollars).

As The Guardian in the UK wrote on July 23, 2009 - is Daniel Suelo a "free spirit" or a "freeloader"?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/blog/2009/jul/23/daniel-suelo-caveman

[The Central Scrutinizer]

"Free Spirit", I suppose.

But not a way I would want to live my life.

[quarky]

A raccoon will raid a trash can. It hardly means that it has become a capitalist.

We evolved from an animal that hadn't invented money yet.

[Robster, FCD]

A raccoon will raid a trash can. It hardly means that it has become a capitalist.

We evolved from an animal that hadn't invented money yet.

but would make down payments for sex with food, which is close.

[quarky]

melons are the only food I'd have sex with.

[gerdbonk]

melons are the only food I'd have sex with.


You just haven't met the right pumpkin.

[theprestige]

Parasite, obviously.

Just read his blog. He explicitly rejects not just money, but barter as well. His whole premise is to obtain support from others without giving anything in return.

I suspect that he's bartering at least a little, if only by accident. If so, that would make him kind of stupid. Or possibly just wilfully ignorant.

Or he could be bartering on purpose, and simply claiming he isn't for whatever reason, which would make him a liar and (probably), a fraud.

But if he's actually doing exactly as he claims, then what he's doing is being a parasite, by definition and by his own design.

[Skeptic]

If all he does is use the library to post the blog or similar things (e.g., driving on public roads in a bus on his way to the library), he is hardly a "freeloader". True, he uses taxpayers' money, but it is a pittance.

[theprestige]

If all he does is use the library to post the blog or similar things (e.g., driving on public roads in a bus on his way to the library), he is hardly a "freeloader". True, he uses taxpayers' money, but it is a pittance.
Well, I for one don't begrudge him his petty parasitism. As far as I'm concerned, he's welcome to use the library tax-free from now until the seas rise and cover the earth.

I'm mildly interested in the principle of the thing, however. I mean, he explicitily disavows any intention of doing something useful in exchange for goods or services--such would be barter, and he claims that barter is just money in a more "inconvenient" form.

He's kind of like an epic hobo, or an especially clever mendicant.

[Jungle Jim]

I looked over his blog and to his credit he is industrious and true to his principles. However, society as a whole decided a long time ago that currency was a far more efficient way to promote economic development, improve standards of living, and advance human capabilities. I for one find the current path we are on to be much more interesting than remaining (or reverting to) hunter/gatherers. That said, I wish him well on his chosen path.

[chuck4842]

You'd have to be a broken spirit before you could find a broken spirit. He quit giving to a corrupt society and found a way to live off it instead. Heres my ten cent , help yourself.

[Puppycow]

But, he also is a sought after "house sitter" so he is not always living in a cave.

Is that not providing a service in exchange for a benefit? I assume he gets to eat, take a shower and do his laundry in the deal?

Well, I suppose he is living somewhat like an ascetic or hermit. He seems relatively harmless.

[Marc39]

If I were to ever broach the idea of living in a cave to my wife, she'd first want to know if there is a Neiman Marcus within driving distance and whether the cave comes with a Jacuzzi.

[Aepervius]

As long as he is healthy, I am pretty sure a person could live in autarky in a cave, as an hermit growing his/her garden food in the (public) forest and killing animals for protein in the (public) forest. If we ignore he/she is using public land then he/she would not be not a free loader. But at the latest the first time he fall really ill, even something as stupid as an infection or appendicitis, he/she could be very very dead, or use the facility of modern society.