Da Vinci Code reference in Penn & Teller: ********! ?

[jay.tarnoff]

Let me first state that I absolutely love Penn & Teller: ********! which is why I was thrown for a little loop tonight after watching the airing of the Organic Food show (Season 7) on Showtime.

P&T, or at least the producers, used Da Vinci's "The Last Supper" as the backdrop, with Penn as Jesus, Teller as the disciple to the left side of Penn, and actors playing the other eleven disciples.

John "The Beloved Disciple" was played by an actress (on Penn's right side), as in the claim of the fictitious Da Vinci Code as Mary Magdalene in this position. This was the only female in the scene.

Okay. This may just be a coincidence, because Penn & Teller, using the Da Vinci Code? It left me saying, "huh? Really? The Da Vinci Code? In BS (censor)??? REALLY???"

Anyone else catch this or am I simply making a causation out of a coincidence?

[jay.tarnoff]

We can't use the full word of BS in the JREF threads? Even in reference to the Penn & Teller show?

[joobz]

I'm not sure what your problem is?

[boloboffin]

Many things done on the Show Not To Be Named are done with an eye to how many people they can hack off by so doing. More Christians to hack off than Dan Brown fans. Dan Brown naysayers other than Christians probably didn't enter in their calculations, and the BS of Dan Brown should speak for itself.

[Simon39759]

Interestingly enough, and not totally unrelated, I have read that, the Renaissance painters had a set of standard and such when representing the various saints and apostles (I guess so that they could be recognized).
Luke was always supposed to be young and pretty and it was not uncommon for painters to use female models to inspire the pretty boy's Bishonen-ness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bish%C5%8Dnen).

[MikeSun5]

We can't use the full word of BS in the JREF threads? Even in reference to the Penn & Teller show?

I couldn't use the word BS in a post where I quoted Randi himself.

As far as Penn & Teller, I'm sure the reference was just supposed to be funny.

[Robin]

I couldn't use the word BS in a post where I quoted Randi himself.

As far as Penn & Teller, I'm sure the reference was just supposed to be funny.
Funny? A harmless joke?

Perhaps.

Or perhaps something more ... sinister.

Consider, when Jean Cocteau died in 1963 Penn Jillette was 8 years old.

8 years old is considered the age of reason in many middle eastern countries.

The middle east is the very place where these events began!

Consider also the names:

Penn - something that transmits words.

Teller - Teller of what? Words maybe?

And who was called the Word made Flesh? Jesus Christ that is who!

Consider this. Jean Cocteau was the last known Grand Master of the Priory of Sion. Is it really so far-fetched that a secret Priory would elect a new Grand Master at the moment he reached the age of reason? What better age?

What better role for the current Grand Master of a secret Priory to hide his identity? Nobody would expect that someone who was protecting a great esoteric truth would be a professional scoffer at all things "woo".

Anybody who even suspected the truth would not dare tell it for fear of being mocked in the way Penn and Teller mock their victims.

It is the classic "hide in plain sight" stratagem.

And they have a perfect vehicle for transmitting secret messages throughout the world.

Oh I know you narrow minded pseudo-sceptics will scoff - but can you prove it isn't true?

Do you have a better explanation for these facts? Co-incidence you say. But isn't that what you always say?

[Damien Evans]

Funny? A harmless joke?

Perhaps.

Or perhaps something more ... sinister.

Consider, when Jean Cocteau died in 1963 Penn Jillette was 8 years old.

8 years old is considered the age of reason in many middle eastern countries.

The middle east is the very place where these events began!

Consider also the names:

Penn - something that transmits words.

Teller - Teller of what? Words maybe?

And who was called the Word made Flesh? Jesus Christ that is who!

Consider this. Jean Cocteau was the last known Grand Master of the Priory of Sion. Is it really so far-fetched that a secret Priory would elect a new Grand Master at the moment he reached the age of reason? What better age?

What better role for the current Grand Master of a secret Priory to hide his identity? Nobody would expect that someone who was protecting a great esoteric truth would be a professional scoffer at all things "woo".

Anybody who even suspected the truth would not dare tell it for fear of being mocked in the way Penn and Teller mock their victims.

It is the classic "hide in plain sight" stratagem.

And they have a perfect vehicle for transmitting secret messages throughout the world.

Oh I know you narrow minded pseudo-sceptics will scoff - but can you prove it isn't true?

Do you have a better explanation for these facts? Co-incidence you say. But isn't that what you always say?

Well played, sir. Nominated.

[MikeSun5]

Funny? A harmless joke?

Perhaps.

Or perhaps something more ... sinister.


...also "Penn Jillette" is 12 letters long. The EXACT number of apostles...

[Robin]

...also "Penn Jillette" is 12 letters long. The EXACT number of apostles...
Oh my God! I never even noticed that.

Now come to think of it "Ray" Teller. A ray is something that comes from the sun and "sun" is a well known medieval and Renaissance double-entendre for the "Son" Jesus Christ, for example George Herbert's The Temple "Then by a sunne-beam I will climbe to thee."

The "beam" is a reference to the Cross and "Ray" is another word for "beam".

Their names are just packed with references to Jesus Christ.

[Robin]

Well played, sir. Nominated.

Thank you sir.

[MikeSun5]

Oh my God! I never even noticed that.

Now come to think of it "Ray" Teller. A ray is something that comes from the sun and "sun" is a well known medieval and Renaissance double-entendre for the "Son" Jesus Christ, for example George Herbert's The Temple "Then by a sunne-beam I will climbe to thee."

The "beam" is a reference to the Cross and "Ray" is another word for "beam".

Their names are just packed with references to Jesus Christ.

:D Well on your way to a P&T cult. Doomsday has the same amount of letters as Bull***t. It's simply too much to handle.

[Robin]

:D Well on your way to a P&T cult. Doomsday has the same amount of letters as Bull***t. It's simply too much to handle.
The odds of this being mere co-incidence are narrowing by the minute.

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm not sure what your problem is?His thread title was censored by the autobot. I think he was just stating that surprised him.

[Skeptic Ginger]

I couldn't use the word BS in a post where I quoted Randi himself.

As far as Penn & Teller, I'm sure the reference was just supposed to be funny.Still, they are not the most scientific of the skeptics. They have the philosophy right, but their skills at supporting their conclusions with convincing evidence is occasionally lacking. Which means they occasionally get it wrong, IMO.

[MikeSun5]

Still, they are not the most scientific of the skeptics. They have the philosophy right, but their skills at supporting their conclusions with convincing evidence is occasionally lacking. Which means they occasionally get it wrong, IMO.

Agreed. Although I do like how they 'fess up when they get busted on their own BS -- like when they did that segment on second hand smoke and had to take a bunch of it back. There are tons of more respected programs that probably wouldn't even address using obvious hyperbole, let alone making a mistake.

[jay.tarnoff]

I'm not sure what your problem is?

I have no "problem" with it. I was just surprised that P&T would play off a a novel that claimed to be true and yet had no (or extremely little) scientific support.

With the title of their show, you would think they wouldn't use a BS book to drive home the point IMO.

[jay.tarnoff]

The odds of this being mere co-incidence are narrowing by the minute.

Maybe it wasn't an Autobot controlling what words are put in the post, but the Show That Must Not Be Named already reaching its nefarious hand into censoring those who disagree :D

[joobz]

I have no "problem" with it. I was just surprised that P&T would play off a a novel that claimed to be true and yet had no (or extremely little) scientific support.

With the title of their show, you would think they wouldn't use a BS book to drive home the point IMO.
If they presented the piece as a bit of factual proof against something, then I would agree.

If they did the piece as one of thier jokey inbetween things, I wouldn't put much stock into it.

[Ocelot]

I have no "problem" with it. I was just surprised that P&T would play off a a novel that claimed to be true and yet had no (or extremely little) scientific support.


To give Dan Brown his due, he's a terrible writer, his research is lazy, it's a mystery why his da Vinci code was such as sucess but I don't think he ever claimed any part of it to be true other than the existence of the Opus Dei.

However your argument still stands (though reads a little more clumsy) "...that P&T would play off a novel who's idiot fans - claim to be true..." or if it were "Holy Blood + Holy Grail" in your sights.

Though one of the most amusing parts of the whole "Holy Blood + Holy Grail" copyright battle was Baigent and Leigh having to admit that their historical research was purely and simply the reporting of uncopyrightable truth but at least to a certain extent a creation of their imagination. That said, they lost so they're probably back to claiming it as the truth.

[Meadmaker]

I have no "problem" with it. I was just surprised that P&T would play off a a novel that claimed to be true and yet had no (or extremely little) scientific support.

With the title of their show, you would think they wouldn't use a BS book to drive home the point IMO.


I suspect it was meant to be a pop culture reference that mocked "The DaVinci Code" within a segment mocking someone else.

P.S. I, too, nominated Robin's post.

[Beerina]

Many things done on the Show Not To Be Named are done with an eye to how many people they can hack off by so doing. More Christians to hack off than Dan Brown fans. Dan Brown naysayers other than Christians probably didn't enter in their calculations, and the BS of Dan Brown should speak for itself.

In other words, it would be like suggesting Jesus was gay, to hack off Christians, rather than to butter up the guy who made The Last Temptation of Christ?

[Lisa Simpson]

It's also a way to get boobies onto the show.

[Monketey Ghost]

I told my dad it would be great to watch that show when it first came out. We watched the first episode together, plus the next two.

I had told my dad they were skeptics and it should be entertaining, despite the unfortunate title of the show.

Ten minutes into show one I was embarrassed that I was subjecting my father to it. P&T make skeptics look like dicks.

[HarryKeogh]

It's also a way to get boobies onto the show.

This is the simplest and the correct answer.

[boloboffin]

It's also a way to get boobies onto the show.

Occam's Centerfold.

[HarryKeogh]

I told my dad it would be great to watch that show when it first came out. We watched the first episode together, plus the next two.

I had told my dad they were skeptics and it should be entertaining, despite the unfortunate title of the show.

Ten minutes into show one I was embarrassed that I was subjecting my father to it. P&T make skeptics look like dicks.

That's funny. I think the first episode was the best one they ever did. It was on psychics. P&T weren't obnoxious and they really showed how those frauds destroy innocent people.

It's been very hit or miss ever since. I thought last night's was well done (organic food) but I still can't get over the episode on hair.

[dudalb]

I couldn't use the word BS in a post where I quoted Randi himself.

As far as Penn & Teller, I'm sure the reference was just supposed to be funny.

Yeah, it was Penn trying to do "The Life Of Brian", and failing.
I admit I am not a big P and T fan anymore. I am tired of his increasing attempts to shove his Libertarian politics down our throats, and think a couple of episodes of The Show That Cannot Be Named are full of What Cannot be Named themselves..the Global Warming episode in particular.
I don't think P and T are exactly outstadning examples of rational thinking anymore.
And I think the attempts at T and A humor are just plain tired.

[dudalb]

To give Dan Brown his due, he's a terrible writer, his research is lazy, it's a mystery why his da Vinci code was such as sucess but I don't think he ever claimed any part of it to be true other than the existence of the Opus Dei.

However your argument still stands (though reads a little more clumsy) "...that P&T would play off a novel who's idiot fans - claim to be true..." or if it were "Holy Blood + Holy Grail" in your sights.

Though one of the most amusing parts of the whole "Holy Blood + Holy Grail" copyright battle was Baigent and Leigh having to admit that their historical research was purely and simply the reporting of uncopyrightable truth but at least to a certain extent a creation of their imagination. That said, they lost so they're probably back to claiming it as the truth.

Dan Brown has several times claimed TDC is based on actual history,and then backtracks with "It only a novel" when called on it.

[joobz]

Yeah, it was Penn trying to do "The Life Of Brian", and failing.
I admit I am not a big P and T fan anymore. I am tired of his increasing attempts to shove his Libertarian politics down our throats, and think a couple of episodes of The Show That Cannot Be Named are full of What Cannot be Named themselves..the Global Warming episode in particular.
I don't think P and T are exactly outstadning examples of rational thinking anymore.
And I think the attempts at T and A humor are just plain tired.
I think they're funny. Not high brow by any means, but it's definite entertainment. Although, tiresome is a good description. I wouldn't watch a marathon of the show.

the other thing is that they are fairly honest with their views. Like in the global warming episode, they admitted to not knowing if it's real. That's honest. I actually agree with thier carbon off-set issue. I think it's easily something taht can be a scam.

[Retrograde]

Interestingly enough, and not totally unrelated, I have read that, the Renaissance painters had a set of standard and such when representing the various saints and apostles (I guess so that they could be recognized).

I like late medieval/early renaissance religious art because I can play "Name that Saint". The big name ones all have identifiers, usually related to their martyrdom: St. Stephen always has rocks, St. Catherine has a wheel, St. Lucy carries her eyes on a plate, St. Lawrence totes around a gridiron, St. Margaret has a reptile on a leash, and my new favorite, St. Peter Martyr (not to be confused with The Saint Peter, who was a martyr, but carries keys) who goes around with a hatchet embedded in his skull.

It's also a way to get boobies onto the show.

An old magician's trick: distract your audience so they don't see the sometimes specious reasoning. Doesn't work for me, though.

[jay.tarnoff]

Occam's Centerfold.

Love that.

[KarlG]

I've just watched the episode and if you think Penn and Teller were basing the female actress on the Da Vinci Code, which book did they get the black guy, the mexican and the dwarf from??

[shawmutt]

I've just watched the episode and if you think Penn and Teller were basing the female actress on the Da Vinci Code, which book did they get the black guy, the mexican and the dwarf from??

The Da Vinci Load (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0870100/)

[CynicalSkeptic]

It's also a way to get boobies onto the show.

Exactly.

Joke and boobies. Classic P&T

[CynicalSkeptic]

I had told my dad they were skeptics and it should be entertaining, despite the unfortunate title of the show.

Ten minutes into show one I was embarrassed that I was subjecting my father to it. P&T make skeptics look like dicks.

What's unfortunate about the name?

P&T don't make anyone other than themselves look like anything.

[LostAngeles]

It's also a way to get boobies onto the show.

They weren't very good boobies.

[Robin]

Oh my God! I never even noticed that.

Now come to think of it "Ray" Teller. A ray is something that comes from the sun and "sun" is a well known medieval and Renaissance double-entendre for the "Son" Jesus Christ, for example George Herbert's The Temple "Then by a sunne-beam I will climbe to thee."

The "beam" is a reference to the Cross and "Ray" is another word for "beam".

Their names are just packed with references to Jesus Christ.

And how could I have missed that "Raymond Teller" is an anagram for "My Eternal Lord"?

[KarlG]

The Da Vinci Load (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0870100/)


Hehe, nice :)

[Monketey Ghost]

What's unfortunate about the name?

Well, for example, I wanted to introduce my dad to skepticism as a tool for wide examination of ideas. The show's title was something I had to work around, and told him it'd be cool. He wasn't too keen on the title of the show, and like him, I think it turned off a few people who'd otherwise have watched at least once.

P&T don't make anyone other than themselves look like anything.

Actually, no. Since skepticism is something not widely represented in the mainstream, their show is one of the most accessible ways to see how skepticism is used. And I must say they use it to their own convenience issue by issue. Randi is gentle and doesn't seek to offend, P&T do, and IMO it's the wrong road to take.

[Careyp74]

I think this Op was just a way for Jay to say "hey, anyone else notice that they reference the DaVinci code here?"

I used to have to watch TV with a bunch of other guys (ok, I was in the Navy, open barracks) and someone always acted upset at something stupid, just because they wanted to let everyone know they picked up on a subtle reference that no one else saw. "Jeez, I can't believe he would reference that fake book like that" sounds along the same lines. Usually, back in those days, it was common for someone to say "yeah yeah, we got the joke too" during one of these incidents.

"I have no "problem" with it. I was just surprised that P&T would play off a a novel that claimed to be true and yet had no (or extremely little) scientific support."

It is called satire.

[Third Eye Open]

To give Dan Brown his due, he's a terrible writer, his research is lazy, it's a mystery why his da Vinci code was such as sucess but I don't think he ever claimed any part of it to be true other than the existence of the Opus Dei.

However your argument still stands (though reads a little more clumsy) "...that P&T would play off a novel who's idiot fans - claim to be true..." or if it were "Holy Blood + Holy Grail" in your sights.

Though one of the most amusing parts of the whole "Holy Blood + Holy Grail" copyright battle was Baigent and Leigh having to admit that their historical research was purely and simply the reporting of uncopyrightable truth but at least to a certain extent a creation of their imagination. That said, they lost so they're probably back to claiming it as the truth.

Is Dan Brown really that terrible? I must admit I thought TDC was a real page turner, I couldn't put it down. I felt the same about his other books. But then again, I have read almost no other mystery novels (aside from the few Asimov wrote) so I haven't been exposed to the formula that made them so predictable in everyone's eyes (that is why they were bad, yes?).

I know this is severely off topic, but who would you suggest as a 'good' mystery writer?

[dropzone]

They weren't very good boobies.BLASPHEMY! All boobies are good boobies. And I expect the rules of this board will prevent any photographic gainsayingshowing.

[Ocelot]

Is Dan Brown really that terrible? I must admit I thought TDC was a real page turner, I couldn't put it down. I felt the same about his other books. But then again, I have read almost no other mystery novels (aside from the few Asimov wrote) so I haven't been exposed to the formula that made them so predictable in everyone's eyes (that is why they were bad, yes?).

Certainly was a page turner. Different thing in my eye to a good book though. You can inject pace through various techniques, short words, lots of verbs a gradual reveal. It's whetehr you find the rveal particularly satisfying. I thought TDC was average. The interesting parts of course were all cribbed from Holy Blood + Holy Grail. It was Angels and Demons which had me screaming inside my head. Gross factual inaccuracies. Had me stopping to go back an check if I'd missed why a sophisiticated security service couldn't locate a radio trasmitter. What the charge of a gram of positrons would be and what effect that would have on the electrons and neurons in the air a meter away. The only redeeming feature was that I discovered what an ambigram was.

I know this is severely off topic, but who would you suggest as a 'good' mystery writer?
Not really my favourite genre but I'm told that Edgar Allen Poe is the best. I've read and enjoyed some James Lee Burke. Some of the slipstream/sci-fi/fantasy I read has mystery elements of course. Nothing like a good mystery to keep the plot moving forward. The missus is the mystery freak. CSI this Law and Order that, I'll ask her.

[The_Fire]

His thread title was censored by the autobot. I think he was just stating that surprised him.

Which one? SpellingBee or Thesaurus Prime? :D