NYC Response to Twoofer 911 Investigation Petition: Call out the laughing dogs

[LashL]

Down at the bottom of the linked PDF, the box marked "Final Disposition" is checked. That suggests to me that the case is disposed of and there's something else out there (a companion motion, like it says in the handwritten note in the middle of the PDF) that isn't on SCROLL that has the legaltainment in it.


I believe that the "companion motion" is NYCCANT's motion to reject the special referee's report and recommendation, and it appears that Justice Lehner has made his decision, which amounts to a final disposition of both the motion and the application to validate the petition, but the judgment has not yet been entered onto the system and I do not yet have a copy of it from my contact.

The judge handed down his decision today but it's not on SCROLL: all that's on SCROLL is a paper saying that the final decision has been made. LashL has a contact who can get the judge's opinion, though. Hopefully she'll get it tonight or tomorrow for our viewing pleasure.


I will post it as soon as I receive it. I am guessing that it will not be until tomorrow, but I sent a message to my awesome and cool contact to see if I can find out anything tonight.

[jhunter1163]

We heart the Goddess of Legaltainment.:heartbeat:

[KoihimeNakamura]

I can't read anything on SCROLL right now - can someone upload it elsewhere?

[Sam.I.Am]

I can't read anything on SCROLL right now - can someone upload it elsewhere?

Basically all it says is that a decision has been made and it references a motion but it doesn't say what that motion is, it also doesn't say what that decision was. Other than that there's a whole lot of blank space on it.

Summary: Nothing to see yet.

[TjW]

I see you shiver with antici...

[LashL]

[Rocky Horror] Saayyyyyyyyyyyyyy it! [/Rocky Horror]

[TjW]

pation.

[LashL]

But maybe the rain isn't really to blame...

[LashL]

I can't read anything on SCROLL right now - can someone upload it elsewhere?

Sure thing, Rika. Here you go (http://resipsa2006.googlepages.com/09.10.08docfinaldispunfiledjudgment.pdf).

[KoihimeNakamura]

Thanks.

ETA: Hopefully, tommorow we get to see the actual motion. I've been needing a good occasion to make popcorn..

[LashL]

Here is Justice Lehner's Order (http://resipsa2006.googlepages.com/09.10.09LehnerOrder.pdf).

Short and sweet, and the result is as we anticipated: NYCCAN'T.

Complete and utter fail.

Proceeding dismissed.


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1110349e970a8a61de.png (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=16070)

[Hokulele]

While petitioners’ counsel argues that the severability provision of paragraph 20 of the petition allows the court to strike any provisions thereof that are unconstitutional or invalid, the extent of the impropriety of the proposal, as correctly set forth by the Referee, would result in a substantial evisceration of the petition and, even if legally permissible, would be inappropriate as inconsistent with the law sought by the signatories to the petition.


Gotta love an order that suggests the petition must be eviscerated in order to be legally permissable.

[Muadib]

Good news.

I read all the thread since the beginning ( memo included) and was waiting for this.

I was wondering: can they appeal it or is it really the end?

[Macgyver1968]

(does the Nelson Muntz) Ha ha!

Epic fail! We should take bets on how the truthers will spin this.

1. The judge is a part of the NWO

2. The judge was threatened by the NWO

3. Everyone in City Hall and the Justice system is a part of the NWO

4. Truthers are stupid and incompetent


Somehow, I doubt they will choose 4. :)

[Fjolle]

Good news.

I read all the thread since the beginning ( memo included) and was waiting for this.

I was wondering: can they appeal it or is it really the end?

According to their website they are:

NYC CAN is weighing all options and will make an announcement early next week on this issue, as well as on how it will be moving forward on other fronts

So, tune in next week for the continuation of this farce.

[bje]

(does the Nelson Muntz) Ha ha!

Epic fail! We should take bets on how the truthers will spin this.

1. The judge is a part of the NWO

2. The judge was threatened by the NWO

3. Everyone in City Hall and the Justice system is a part of the NWO

4. Truthers are stupid and incompetent


Somehow, I doubt they will choose 4. :)

That won't stop Truthers from believing they are entitled to special privileges and rights even when what they want is outside the law.

Thanks to Lash L for her explanations throughout this case!

[Sam.I.Am]

At least this time NYCCANT (http://nyccan.org/Decision_Denied.php) came out fairly quickly with the bad news for once. Of course they called it a "Rubberstamped" decision that was a "Dark day for democracy" and it "Ignored the will of the voters".

In other words a "Rubber stamped" rhetorical response.

[DGM]

Good news.

I read all the thread since the beginning ( memo included) and was waiting for this.

I was wondering: can they appeal it or is it really the end?
My understanding is no. All they can do is rewrite the petition and go get 30,000 more signatures (start over) because essentially making the necessary changes to make it legal negates the ones (sigs.) they have .

[Josarhus]

Are those signatures that they have not jet submitted, valid for the next time an election comes up, or do they have to start all over?

When is the next election?

[Brainster]

Great job, LashL!

:clap:

[DGM]

Are those signatures that they have not jet submitted, valid for the next time an election comes up, or do they have to start all over?

When is the next election?
Nope. The petition would not be the same one they signed. It would be like you signing one petition and using your signature for any other one they please.

[Macgyver1968]

(Truther)

"Waiter, I would like the Fail fricassee, with a side of Fail fries, a Fail salad with Fail dressing, and for dessert, two scoops of frozen Fail, with Fail sauce and Fail sprinkles on top."

(borrowed from another member :) )

[Drudgewire]

Here is Justice Lehner's Order (http://resipsa2006.googlepages.com/09.10.09LehnerOrder.pdf).

Short and sweet, and the result is as we anticipated: NYCCAN'T.

Complete and utter fail.

Proceeding dismissed.


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1110349e970a8a61de.png (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=16070)


ynvpn-H1DMA

[Sam.I.Am]

Are those signatures that they have not jet submitted, valid for the next time an election comes up, or do they have to start all over?

No, they will have to get new signatures because the petition will have to be totally rewritten. The way it works is that you can remove one or more sections of a petition (sever) if you allow for it in the original petition but you cannot change the wording or add to it because you have no way of knowing if every single person who signed it would agree to the changes or additions. Additionally the people who sign it must have voted in the upcoming election and there is no way to know that right now.

[dudalb]

A preview of the Truthers reaction:


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/188404ace4917dd503.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17790)


First you have a epic fail; then you have a epic whine. Truther SOP.
I am waiting for our buddy Bill Smith to try to show how this is a great step forward for the Truth Movement.

[Brainster]

Let the finger-pointing begin (http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/871/page/5):

Bottom line: The ballot initiative was an intentional distraction, drain on resources and morale, and way to prevent others from trying to do it right. Lots of honest, hard working, activists got honestly sucked in and that was the point.

Few will recognize the extent to which Les Jamieson was largely responsible for this outcome.

[dudalb]

Let the finger-pointing begin (http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/871/page/5):

So the cries of "DISINFO! NWO PLANT" have already begun?
Whatta surprise............

[jhunter1163]

They were doomed from the outset, and at least some of them seem to realize it. The size of the flock to be sheared grows smaller...

[Thunder]

Here is Justice Lehner's Order (http://resipsa2006.googlepages.com/09.10.09LehnerOrder.pdf).

Short and sweet, and the result is as we anticipated: NYCCAN'T.

Complete and utter fail.

Proceeding dismissed.


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1110349e970a8a61de.png (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=16070)

Well, Justice Lehner is a Jew, so clearly this was a Mossad/NWO conspiracy to destroy democracy in America!!!

......to be continued.

[Macgyver1968]

Great job, LashL!

:clap:

Yes...seconded. Thank you goddess for translating all of the legal mumbo jumbo into something us layman can understand. You rock harder than Jimi Hendrix on really good acid!

By the way...you married? (wink wink) :)

[tsig]

Good news.

I read all the thread since the beginning ( memo included) and was waiting for this.

I was wondering: can they appeal it or is it really the end?

Oh momma!

Can this really be the end

To be stuck inside a courtroom

With the dismissal blues again.

[jhunter1163]

By the way...you married? (wink wink) :)

*steps away from Macgyver1968 in anticipation of the smiting*

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Let the finger-pointing begin (http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/871/page/5):

Bottom line: The ballot initiative was an intentional distraction, drain on resources and morale, and way to prevent others from trying to do it right. Lots of honest, hard working, activists got honestly sucked in and that was the point.

Few will recognize the extent to which Les Jamieson was largely responsible for this outcome.


*sigh* If these "others" were prevented from doing it right because they put their support behind a petition that was intended to fail, then they clearly had no clue how to do it right in the first place. If they did, they would have recognized the petition's impending failure and done their own thing anyway.

[Björn Toulouse]

They were doomed from the outset, and at least some of them seem to realize it. The size of the flock to be sheared grows smaller...

and

Originally Posted by NYCCANT
NYC CAN is weighing all options and will make an announcement early next week on this issue, as well as on how it will be moving forward on other fronts.



Other "fronts"?

Oh, puh-leeze...

[Orphia Nay]

Yay, LashL! :cheerleader2

LOL, Drudgewire. :D

And at 9/11 Blogger, the cockroaches come out:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/21583

WOW The Dishonorable Edward Lehner has a set of balls. By suppressing justice and the will of the people he placed himself on top of the list of those suspected of cover up in the mass murder of 9/11. I wouldn't want to be in his position when Justice eventually makes its way to the forefront of the restoration of the USA and the rule of law. I wonder if these low lives think escaping to Paraguay will save them. The hunt for these treasonous bastards will be unprecedented and successful. Poor old Judge Lehner. I pity him. Poor old Judge Lehner will likely see some dark days.

:nope:

[~enigma~]

Yay, LashL! :cheerleader2

LOL, Drudgewire. :D

And at 9/11 Blogger, the cockroaches come out:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/21583



:nope:
Did that moron threaten a federal judge? I smell a quick tactical strike deep into the black and icy heart of the carrion known as the 9/11 truthotards.

[Sam.I.Am]

*sigh* If these "others" were prevented from doing it right because they put their support behind a petition that was intended to fail, then they clearly had no clue how to do it right in the first place. If they did, they would have recognized the petition's impending failure and done their own thing anyway.

I can think of no way that the truthers can write a petition whose language satisfies both the law and other truthers. Maybe, and it's a really big maybe, they can write one that basically creates a citizens advisory panel regarding 9/11 to the city prosecutors office but the truthers will never go for it because it's not "Independent" enough and they know that the prosecutors would laugh pretty much everything that they present out of their offices.

Prosecuteor: Well, you got your law passed now what?
Truther: We want you to investigate FDNY because they blew up WTC 7 on 9/11.
Prosecuteor: ?????...
Truthers: And you had better include the buildings owner because he told them to do it.
Prosecuteor: o_0
Truthers: Then you will need to bring in Bush and Cheney for questioning because they orchestrated the planting of explosives in the twin towers and then they...
Prosecuteor: Get out of my office you nutbars!!!

[Foolmewunz]

I'd like to commend our Truther LiteTM, Deep.

Deep's probably learned more about the law and its application through this thread than the entire rest of the TM. And he(she) kept it relatively civil and actually contributed information.
(I know nothing of his/her other posting history - just commenting from this thread.)

The entire thread is commendable, in fact. Informative and cooperative efforts. Everyone should take a bow and relax, 'cuz I'm sure Bill Smith is going to come along any minute to explain to us how this is just further proof of how the movement is growing every day. "Why as soon as we get our new investigation, you debunkers will see...."

[Orphia Nay]

Did that moron threaten a federal judge? I smell a quick tactical strike deep into the black and icy heart of the carrion known as the 9/11 truthotards.

I think he's probably safe from prosecution, though. He's just saying "Lehner will be first against the wall when the Revolution comes", while he's safe in his basement of perpetual fail.

[Sam.I.Am]

Yay, LashL! :cheerleader2

LOL, Drudgewire. :D

And at 9/11 Blogger, the cockroaches come out:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/21583



:nope:

Hmmmm... apparently they aren't too happy about the judgment.:D

[Cl1mh4224rd]

[...] while he's safe in his basement of perpetual fail.


His... Fortress of Failitude?

[Sam.I.Am]

His... Fortress of Failitude?
I'm going with: Masturbatorium of Mediocrity?

[Orphia Nay]

His... Fortress of Failitude?

I'm going with: Masturbatorium of Mediocrity?

:big: :big:

[NoZed Avenger]

Yay, LashL! :cheerleader2

LOL, Drudgewire. :D

And at 9/11 Blogger, the cockroaches come out:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/21583


That reads like he is vaguely threatening a sitting judge.

I don't think that is wise.

[waypastvne]

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'"

Thanks LashL

[Orphia Nay]

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'"

Thanks LashL

Hehehe, what with LashL having the dismissal before the twoofers posted it, and our schadenfreude, next the twoofers will be saying we're in on it.

They would actually be right about something for once. ;) :D

[Macgyver1968]

Hehehe, what with LashL having the dismissal before the twoofers posted it, and our schadenfreude, next the twoofers will be saying we're in on it.

They would actually be right about something for once. ;) :D

(taps his nose) yo...ix-nay on the onfession-cay....just because I sent pictures of the judge with that dead hooker, does not mean it affected his decision!

[nagasama]

wowzers. some of the responses on 9/11 blogger are purely insane.

[LashL]

I sincerely appreciate all of the thank you posts, but really, the thanks should rightly go to my contact, who provided the documents on such a timely basis. Had it not been for the fact that they were being posted here, the conspiracy fantasists behind NYCCANT would never have posted anything except their own propaganda for as long as they could string their gullible followers along, and I think that we collectively did a good job here at the JREF forums to force them to acknowledge reality, at least temporarily, as a direct result of the documents being posted here so that the NYCCANT conspiracy fantasists were forced into posting them after we did so here.

I am not going to publicly disclose the name of the person who made this all come together, but to "you know who you are": Thank you!

Cheers,
Lash

[Orphia Nay]

Yes, thanks NWO Secret Agent #357! :cheerleader2 :clap:

[Foolmewunz]

I sincerely appreciate all of the thank you posts, but really, the thanks should rightly go to my contact, who provided the documents on such a timely basis. Had it not been for the fact that they were being posted here, the conspiracy fantasists behind NYCCANT would never have posted anything except their own propaganda for as long as they could string their gullible followers along, and I think that we collectively did a good job here at the JREF forums to force them to acknowledge reality, at least temporarily, as a direct result of the documents being posted here so that the NYCCANT conspiracy fantasists were forced into posting them after we did so here.

I am not going to publicly disclose the name of the person who made this all come together, but to "you know who you are": Thank you!

Cheers,
Lash

That's mighty humble and gracious of you, Lash, and I'm sure Les Jamieson er, uh "Youknowwhoyouare"(wink wink, nudge nudge) appreciates not having his role known.
But in terms of NWO business, I think maybe it's time for The Kitty to pay a visit to NYC. I mean, I don't think we can get much more value out of Les him now that he's snookered them into this Double Hot Fudge Fail Sundae With Sprinkles On The Top.

[Brainster]

I sincerely appreciate all of the thank you posts, but really, the thanks should rightly go to my contact, who provided the documents on such a timely basis. Had it not been for the fact that they were being posted here, the conspiracy fantasists behind NYCCANT would never have posted anything except their own propaganda for as long as they could string their gullible followers along, and I think that we collectively did a good job here at the JREF forums to force them to acknowledge reality, at least temporarily, as a direct result of the documents being posted here so that the NYCCANT conspiracy fantasists were forced into posting them after we did so here.

I am not going to publicly disclose the name of the person who made this all come together, but to "you know who you are": Thank you!

Cheers,
Lash

Great job by the source as well, but don't sell yourself short. There are "Truthers" like Victronix (aka Victoria Ashley, wife of Jim Hoffman), who have noted that disclosure was severely lacking by the NYC-CAN group, and bemoaned that they had to go to sites like SLC to find out the real scoop:

It's too bad this report is so limited.

Screwloosechange -- and no, I don't approve of them or support them -- provides the pdf of the actual document. The relevant paragraph are these --

Of course, SLC would not have had the PDF of the actual document without your efforts. She goes on to cite a few key paragraphs that have been noted here and adds:

What parts exactly were relevant? The "private" aspect as opposed to a public commission? This is highly meaningful as it could set a terrible precedent if not well thought out. It would be good to know the details, to review, and to ask why those aspects were included in the first place. But so far, it doesn't appear that the people involved in the petition are interested in being that transparent. Which is why I had to go to a debunker site just to see the actual decision.

This page on NYCCAN could have included the pdf, but did not. Why?

[Foolmewunz]

I know it's not supposed to be nice to dance on people's graves, but is this too much to hope for? Not only does their noisiest effort of the past year go down in flames, but before the wax is dry on the notary seal, they start cannibalizing the movement?

Be still, my heart!

[~enigma~]

I know it's not supposed to be nice to dance on people's graves, but is this too much to hope for? Not only does their noisiest effort of the past year go down in flames, but before the wax is dry on the notary seal, they start cannibalizing the movement?

Be still, my heart!
Not nice? To paraphrase Megadeth, someday I will dance on their grave even if their buried at sea. As I once said so eloquently and truthfully, the truthotards are a bunch of impotent failures.

[Comsat Angel]

(Truther)

"Waiter, I would like the Fail fricassee, with a side of Fail fries, a Fail salad with Fail dressing, and for dessert, two scoops of frozen Fail, with Fail sauce and Fail sprinkles on top."

(borrowed from another member :) )

- with a decaff latte fail and some fail-flavoured mints, and a doggy-bag for any left-over fail.

Sorry, couldn't resist:

"Waiter! Could you please hail
My homebound yellow cab of FAIL.
Driver! Please take me to my pad,
I’m full of FAIL and feeling sad.
As up the brownstone steps I trudge.
My dose of FAIL just will not budge.
Oh! FAIL apartment, let me weep,
Fall on my bed of FAIL and sleep."

[Comsat Angel]

More seriously, last month (IIRC), an Anonymous poster over at Screw Loose Change claimed to have been involved with the ballot initiative at the beginning, but bailed out when Les Jamieson became involved, due to Les's patent inability.

Also, isn't NYCCAN the result of two different groups who were both pursuing a ballot initiative and who combined? If so, expect a split along these lines, with lots of finger-pointing and accusations of shillery.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

There are "Truthers" like Victronix (aka Victoria Ashley, wife of Jim Hoffman), who have noted that disclosure was severely lacking by the NYC-CAN group, and bemoaned that they had to go to sites like SLC to find out the real scoop:


Heh. She had to go to a "debunker" website to find out the whole truth? *gasp* Horror of horrors!

[Mr.Herbert]

Heh. She had to go to a "debunker" website to find out the whole truth? *gasp* Horror of horrors!

Later on in the blog she said this:

The JREfers and SLCers are to be ignored.

Wee bit of a contradiction here?

[jhunter1163]

So it's NYCCA*N. The New York City Coalition for Accountability* Now.

* - Except when being accountable is inconvenient to our delusions/cash flow.

[pgimeno]

Heh. She had to go to a "debunker" website to find out the whole truth? *gasp* Horror of horrors!

Sweet irony.

[W.D.Clinger]

I know it's not supposed to be nice to dance on people's graves, but is this too much to hope for? Not only does their noisiest effort of the past year go down in flames, but before the wax is dry on the notary seal, they start cannibalizing the movement?

Be still, my heart!

That's been going on for quite a while, hasn't it?

Victoria Ashley called out CIT (and PfT) in "To Con a Movement". In "Discrediting by Association: Undermining the Case for Patriots Who Question 9/11", she tried to distance the truth movement(s) from Morgan Reynolds, David Shayler, Judy Wood, and James Fetzer.

The truthers are a mixed bag. Some of them admit it.

Will

[LashL]

Sweet irony.


Indeed. I find it most amusing to keep seeing the link to Justice Lehner's decision being a link to the document uploaded to my site. :p

[Sam.I.Am]

Indeed. I find it most amusing to keep seeing the link to Justice Lehner's decision being a link to the document uploaded to my site. :p

Oh the evil things you could do to someone who hotlinks to your site...

Not that I'm suggesting that you do anything of course.:D

[LashL]

There are "Truthers" like Victronix (aka Victoria Ashley, wife of Jim Hoffman), who have noted that disclosure was severely lacking by the NYC-CAN group, and bemoaned that they had to go to sites like SLC to find out the real scoop

Indeed, and although Ms. Ashley appears to be in the minority, it is good that at least some of them question the lack of transparency and accountability by a group purporting to be all about transparency and accountability. As jhunter noted, NYCCANT needs an asterisk in its name next to the A.

Also, several of the "truthers" over there appear to be wholly astounded by the decision, and do not seem to know how to find the materials submitted by counsel for the City Clerk, nor the Referee's report and recommendation, which was ultimately adopted in full by Justice Lehner.

Perhaps they missed them when they were posted here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5142681&postcount=601) and here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5144785&postcount=614), or maybe they do not wish to sully their beautiful minds with *gasp* information, preferring to maintain their ignorance and engage in perpetual uninformed speculation. Hmm, that's a tough one. ;)

[~enigma~]

Oh the evil things you could do to someone who hotlinks to your site...

Not that I'm suggesting that you do anything of course.:D
Now that would be cute. At the link they are using put a PDF by the same name of 100 fail pictures. Then put a new link to the real PDF :)

[Hokulele]

Now that would be cute. At the link they are using put a PDF by the same name of 100 fail pictures. Then put a new link to the real PDF :)


As far as I am concerned, the current PDF is the equivalent of 100 fail pictures. ;)

[~enigma~]

As far as I am concerned, the current PDF is the equivalent of 100 fail pictures. ;)
Count again...it is worth 100 Ameros :)

[Hokulele]

Ah crap, I was off by 90 Ameros.

[Orphia Nay]

More seriously, last month (IIRC), an Anonymous poster over at Screw Loose Change claimed to have been involved with the ballot initiative at the beginning, but bailed out when Les Jamieson became involved, due to Les's patent inability.

Also, isn't NYCCAN the result of two different groups who were both pursuing a ballot initiative and who combined? If so, expect a split along these lines, with lots of finger-pointing and accusations of shillery.

Yes, as FMW (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5161772&postcount=725) pointed out to me, NYCCANT merged with the 9/11 Ballot Initiative (http://www.911realinvestigation.org/) earlier this year.

Someone called "rm" at 9/11 Blogger (I quoted him earlier (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5161639&postcount=723)) says 9/11 Ballot Initiative founder Carl Person helped write NYCANT's original petition, and rm now says:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/21583
I don't think it's fair or accurate to generalize in this way about those involved in drafting the petition, as if there were no differences among them. Carl Person did endeavor to anticipate objections, and included provisions to have the investigation placed under the charge of a newly created public office. And it was Pepper who later wanted to remove those provisions, and Les went along with him. Those provisions were removed from the language of the petition, and Carl Person had no further involvement.

Discussed here:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/21515#comment-218563


ETA: So it seems 'rm' was saying the petition was good because Carl Person was involved, and now he's saying the petition is bad because Carl Person wasn't involved. :D

[jhunter1163]

Apparently, someone associated with "NYCCA*N'T" (think it was Jon Gold, wouldn't swear to it) identified most of the legal flaws in the petition last year, but was ignored. Jamieson and crew went on their merry way and put out the hopelessly flawed pile of fail that the judge recently and summarily dismissed.

* - "Accountability for other people, not for us"

[LashL]

Now that would be cute. At the link they are using put a PDF by the same name of 100 fail pictures. Then put a new link to the real PDF


Heh - that is so tempting. Must...restrain...self.

As far as I am concerned, the current PDF is the equivalent of 100 fail pictures. ;)


Indeed. Self...restrained. :D

[LashL]

- with a decaff latte fail and some fail-flavoured mints, and a doggy-bag for any left-over fail.

Sorry, couldn't resist:

"Waiter! Could you please hail
My homebound yellow cab of FAIL.
Driver! Please take me to my pad,
I’m full of FAIL and feeling sad.
As up the brownstone steps I trudge.
My dose of FAIL just will not budge.
Oh! FAIL apartment, let me weep,
Fall on my bed of FAIL and sleep."


Your muse is most amusing. :D

[dudalb]

ANd our old friend Bill Smith Finally comments on the NYCCAN'T fiasco....in another thread and it is pretty much what we expected:

Let's face it....we all knew that there is no way that the authorities in New York or anywhere in America for that matter could ever allow an investigation like this. It could be (possibly even literally) the end of them.

But maybe the citizenry do not like to be slappd in the face ? There may be a more profound effect from this that has not yet bitten deep. There are now at least 100,000 joined-up citizens in New York who have ' gotten it '. We will have to see how it plays out.

THe Mind truly boggles.

[Horatius]

I sincerely appreciate all of the thank you posts, but really, the thanks should rightly go to my contact, who provided the documents on such a timely basis. Had it not been for the fact that they were being posted here, the conspiracy fantasists behind NYCCANT would never have posted anything except their own propaganda for as long as they could string their gullible followers along, and I think that we collectively did a good job here at the JREF forums to force them to acknowledge reality, at least temporarily, as a direct result of the documents being posted here so that the NYCCANT conspiracy fantasists were forced into posting them after we did so here.

I am not going to publicly disclose the name of the person who made this all come together, but to "you know who you are": Thank you!

Cheers,
Lash

Yes, thanks NWO Secret Agent #357! :cheerleader2 :clap:



http://static.stripgenerator.com/generated/horatius/strip/2009/10/11/a-job-well-done.png

[Comsat Angel]

Your muse is most amusing. :D

Thank you! Sometimes it strikes, sometimes not.

[TjW]

Heh - that is so tempting. Must...restrain...self.




Indeed. Self...restrained. :D

I hate to mess with your self control, but why not just put a fail picture or two before and after the text ... in another pdf of the same name, at the same location.

[LashL]

http://static.stripgenerator.com/generated/horatius/strip/2009/10/11/a-job-well-done.png


Bwahahahaha. Good one (as usual) Horatius!

[LashL]

I guess this would be a good time to add that NYCCANT did actually consult a real election lawyer (an experienced and well respected one) after they submitted their horrifically doomed-to-fail petition, but the real lawyer told them that their petition could not and would not possibly succeed.

So, NYCCANT carried on with its doomed-to-fail petition and its doomed-to-fail non-practicing lawyer, Dennis Whatsisname, instead of retaining the real lawyer, and instead of telling its membership that the petition could not possibly succeed.

NYCCANT chose to fleece as many naive truthers as possible for a few more dollars before it went down in flames, as it knew would happen.

Normally, one would say "good on ya" to NYCCANT for actually consulting a legitimate lawyer with legitimate experience (unlike that Dennis fellow), but NYCCANT never once told its gaggle of naive morons that it had received legal advice indicating that the petition was destined to fail, and NYCCANT knew that it was going to fail spectacularly but remained silent about that. Instead, NYCCANT strung its gaggle of "truther" lemmings along for as long as it could, right up to the enbarrassing failure that iresulted.

How frigging sad is that? Very, very sad.

[Hokulele]

How frigging sad is that? Very, very sad.


What is truly sad is that the people who could most benefit from this lesson, won't.

[Foolmewunz]

Last edited by LashL; Today at 01:22 PM. Reason: blabbedy blah, edited for alcohol and such :)





Bolding mine.


Ooh, I love it when you talk all that legal mumbo jumbo and go all lawyerly and stuff, but I'm at work. Now I have to go take a cold shower.

[jhunter1163]

Wow. Just... wow. If I was a Truther and found this out, I would exit the movement forthwith. The fraudulence of these people truly boggles the mind.

[Foolmewunz]

I missed this entirely. In the comments to the article on 911Blogger, Jon Gold posts that he's thinking of giving up his job and his apartment to move to DC (that part's implied) and chain himself to the White House fence every day with Cindy Sheehan.

I may be... Participating in this(see link below). It all depends on whether or not I decide to give up my job, my apt, etc... If you don't care about those things, then I recommend you participate.

Edit: I would just like to say thank you to everyone that helped with this effort.

Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 10/09/2009 - 2:29pm.

(Parenthetical statement mine - FMW.)


http://cindysheehanssoapbox.blogspot.com/2009/10/peace-of-action-by-cindy-sheehan.html


So Cindy's giving up everything, moving to Washington DC and trying to get 5000 dedicated volunteers to agree to daily civil disobedience. There's apparently no plugging of 911 Conspiradroid crud - just an old fashioned peacenik action? And Jon Gold's thinking of joining her.

Is this yet another indication that the TM has essentially shot its wad? The career counter-culturists are moving on to fields that offer more permanent opportunities? (There's always a good war to protest, somewhere.)

Is Jon really capable of climbing up out of the rabbit hole and chucking 911 conspiracies to go all monkish on us and work for peace?

((I have many OTHER reasons to dislike Cindy and Jon - I have nothing against peace protesters, as such, having spent a number of years doing similar acts.))

[Orphia Nay]

I guess this would be a good time to add that NYCCANT did actually consult a real election lawyer (an experienced and well respected one) after they submitted their horrifically doomed-to-fail petition, but the real lawyer told them that their petition could not and would not possibly succeed.

So, NYCCANT carried on with its doomed-to-fail petition and its doomed-to-fail non-practicing lawyer, Dennis Whatsisname, instead of retaining the real lawyer, and instead of telling its membership that the petition could not possibly succeed.

NYCCANT chose to fleece as many naive truthers as possible for a few more dollars before it went down in flames, as it knew would happen.

Normally, one would say "good on ya" to NYCCANT for actually consulting a legitimate lawyer with legitimate experience (unlike that Dennis fellow), but NYCCANT never once told its gaggle of naive morons that it had received legal advice indicating that the petition was destined to fail, and NYCCANT knew that it was going to fail spectacularly but remained silent about that. Instead, NYCCANT strung its gaggle of "truther" lemmings along for as long as it could, right up to the enbarrassing failure that iresulted.

How frigging sad is that? Very, very sad.

Sad, pathetic, and despicable.

Who was the real election lawyer?

[Comsat Angel]

Sad, pathetic, and despicable.

Who was the real election lawyer?

Hmmm! If Lash hasn't given it already, then I suspect she's not going to at all. One reason being that the Twoof kooks might decide to harrass them.

[TjW]

How frigging sad is that? Very, very sad.

But hardly unexpected, considering Twoofers' relationship with reality.
Obviously, any lawyer that tells them they can't do what they want to do is in on it.

[CHF]

Normally, one would say "good on ya" to NYCCANT for actually consulting a legitimate lawyer with legitimate experience (unlike that Dennis fellow), but NYCCANT never once told its gaggle of naive morons that it had received legal advice indicating that the petition was destined to fail, and NYCCANT knew that it was going to fail spectacularly but remained silent about that. Instead, NYCCANT strung its gaggle of "truther" lemmings along for as long as it could, right up to the enbarrassing failure that iresulted.

How frigging sad is that? Very, very sad.

It would be sad if rational people were dumb enough to fall for it.

Seeing how only truthers fell for it, I'd say the whole things is downright hilarious. :D

[Orphia Nay]

Hmmm! If Lash hasn't given it already, then I suspect she's not going to at all. One reason being that the Twoof kooks might decide to harrass them.

Yes.

On a different note... more twoofer fail.

Only 2 news agencies have reported this news (according to a Google News search).

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/october132009/911_review_10-13-09.php
(Basically just paraphrasing NYCCAN'T's press release.)

And:

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_5196.shtml

which is full of appeals to emotion and false dichotomies, and a suggestion that Justice Lehner was threatened:

"Were you, too, “doomed to failure” by any visible or invisible “arm twisting,” the phone call, the voice in the night whispering “no,” the threat of a curtailed career? Could that possibly be? Or do you from the bottom of your heart agree that the 3,000 souls that perished at the World Trade Center did not merit another investigation, that their lives were expendable, the fatalities of an unpleasant inciting incident for a War on Terror very much like Pearl Harbor, which all of America had to suck up in 1941, in order to facilitate a late entry into a World War against the Axis?"

The author is a "freelance writer" and poet. Poets for 9/11 Truth, anyone?

[TruthersLie]

Hey I'm sure they will soon have
sk8ers for 9/11 truth
douchbags for 9/11 truth
and
dropouts for 9/11 truth

[Foolmewunz]

Hey I'm sure they will soon have
sk8ers for 9/11 truth
douchbags for 9/11 truth
and
dropouts for 9/11 truth

That doesn't rhyme.

[Mr.Herbert]

The author is a "freelance writer" and poet. Poets for 9/11 Truth, anyone?

This dolt can start it up:

http://www.myspace.com/911poet

[Fjolle]

How frigging sad is that? Very, very sad.

So. NYCCAN was... Set up to fail?

[Thunder]

So. NYCCAN was... Set up to fail?

are some Truthers actually suggesting that??

lol

[NoZed Avenger]

I guess this would be a good time to add that NYCCANT did actually consult a real election lawyer (an experienced and well respected one) after they submitted their horrifically doomed-to-fail petition, but the real lawyer told them that their petition could not and would not possibly succeed.


That looks like fraud to the extent the organization withheld that data to procure donations.

Intentional. Material facts.

Discovery would be a hoot.

[Thunder]

That looks like fraud to the extent the organization withheld that data to procure donations.

Intentional. Material facts.

Discovery would be a hoot.

lawsuit time?

[NoZed Avenger]

lawsuit time?

Well, they probably don't have enough assets to go after, and the funds for the petition may well have already spent on gin and hookers, so unlikely.

[twinstead]

mmmmmmm. Gin......

[ElMondoHummus]

I guess this would be a good time to add that NYCCANT did actually consult a real election lawyer (an experienced and well respected one) after they submitted their horrifically doomed-to-fail petition, but the real lawyer told them that their petition could not and would not possibly succeed.

So, NYCCANT carried on with its doomed-to-fail petition and its doomed-to-fail non-practicing lawyer, Dennis Whatsisname, instead of retaining the real lawyer, and instead of telling its membership that the petition could not possibly succeed.

NYCCANT chose to fleece as many naive truthers as possible for a few more dollars before it went down in flames, as it knew would happen.

Normally, one would say "good on ya" to NYCCANT for actually consulting a legitimate lawyer with legitimate experience (unlike that Dennis fellow), but NYCCANT never once told its gaggle of naive morons that it had received legal advice indicating that the petition was destined to fail, and NYCCANT knew that it was going to fail spectacularly but remained silent about that. Instead, NYCCANT strung its gaggle of "truther" lemmings along for as long as it could, right up to the enbarrassing failure that iresulted.

How frigging sad is that? Very, very sad.

Seriously?? :eye-poppi They were told that it had no chance of succeeding, and they went ahead and did it anyway?

How close is that to actual, literal fraud? How close? There comes a point where their acts can no longer be attributed to incompetence.

ETA: Just out of curiosity, how did you find this out? I don't think names or any other revealing information is necessary - obviously, where obsessives like conspiracy addicts are concerned, you really, really want to maintain net anonymity - but still, it'd be informative to know this.

[rwguinn]

http://static.stripgenerator.com/generated/horatius/strip/2009/10/11/a-job-well-done.png
At least he's not wearing a red shirt...

[Thunder]

Well, they probably don't have enough assets to go after, and the funds for the petition may well have already spent on gin and hookers, so unlikely.

how about contacting the New York AG, or the NYC Public Advocate?

[Lupie]

Not nice? To paraphrase Megadeth, someday I will dance on their grave even if their buried at sea. As I once said so eloquently and truthfully, the truthotards are a bunch of impotent failures.

Since I am loaded up on coffee, and have two left feet, I'm afraid I'll have to do something else on their grave.

As far as the impotence goes, I don't think there are enough little blue pills in the entire world that would help these limp noodle truther frauds. This has to be one of the all time greatest fiasco's in the entire sordid history of trooferdom.

L.

[CORed]

mmmmmmm. Hookers......

Fixed it.

[deep]

how about contacting the New York AG, or the NYC Public Advocate?


..and tell them what, exactly? What real evidence do you have?

[HannibalGroup]

..and tell them what, exactly? What real evidence do you have?

Oh, the irony of that statement.

How about a Real Investigation into NYCCAN?

[LashL]

How close is that to actual, literal fraud? How close? There comes a point where their acts can no longer be attributed to incompetence.


Nah, it does not rise to the level of fraud. Two lawyers differ in opinions. One says X, the other says Y, the client chooses to go with the one saying X instead of the one saying Y because the client really wants X to be the answer, and it turns out that the one saying Y was correct. That does not amount to fraud. Plus, there was no legal obligation on NYCCANT to tell its lemmings anything that it did not want to tell them. The moral obligation is, perhaps, another matter, but there is no "fraud" involved here, as a matter of law.


Just out of curiosity, how did you find this out?


The NWO works in mysterious ways. Beyond that, sorry, but I am not at liberty to say.

[jhunter1163]

Perhaps the NWO has... a MOLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvxe04wGmTw

[Mince]

It's interesting to see the truthers demonstrate their utter ignorance of the body and procedure of law. I thought 84% of Americans supported the truthers. That's 6,972,000 New Yorkers (based on an estimated population of 8.3 million). They couldn't get more than 26,000 signatures!?

[Leviath]

Seriously?? :eye-poppi They were told that it had no chance of succeeding, and they went ahead and did it anyway?


It's a good example of how the truther mind works. They get two very different opinion on a subject from professionals. Now a good skeptic would seek out at least one more opinion, but the truther just goes with the one that supports their own wishful thinking. Same old, same old.

[funk de fino]

..and tell them what, exactly? What real evidence do you have?

What is your take on this epic bunch of fail you were so enthusiastic about?

[Alt+F4]

..and tell them what, exactly? What real evidence do you have?

The New York City Charter is a public document that anyone can read. Why would the truthers put a provision in their petition stating that commissioners could live outside of NYC when the Charter specifically says they can't?

[BigAl]

..and tell them what, exactly? What real evidence do you have?

Ask about the law related to the money that NYCCAN raised and continues to ask for and ask if NYCCAN has complied with the law.

Nobody can collect money without reporting it, somehow.

[Brainster]

ETA: Just out of curiosity, how did you find this out? I don't think names or any other revealing information is necessary - obviously, where obsessives like conspiracy addicts are concerned, you really, really want to maintain net anonymity - but still, it'd be informative to know this.

I can't speak about LashL's source (because I don't know it), but you would be surprised at some of the people who have fed me information over the last three years--very surprised. Remember, there are factions within the movement that cannot stand other factions, because they believe the other guys are disinformation operatives or on the wrong track or they were drummed out of the clubhouse. Of course I have to verify this much more carefully than I would something else, but many of the claims have checked out, and some have led to pretty substantial changes in the movement.

[Orphia Nay]

The latest from NYCCAN'T:

http://www.nyccan.org/The_Turning_Point.php

"While the petition had its flaws, it was secure enough to be implemented if the City and the Supreme Court were so inclined. It took the petition and legal processes to realize that the current City administration will stop at nothing to keep 9/11 in the rear view mirror. Our best and current expert legal advice indicates that no petition of this kind, however framed, can ever be assured success in New York City. Hence, no more time, energy, or money will be spent on this court action or a new petition effort."


So what will they do with the money they've fleeced from the twoofy sheeple?


"Our goal is now multimedia saturation – a consistent stream of stories through a cross-section of print media, regional, network and cable news outlets and their Internet counterparts."

"We know many of you, like us, see our marginalized movement’s stalled momentum as a call to effective action – a call to take the fight to our detractors by using the very tools they employ to promote their own agenda. We must use these same time-tested tools to elevate our own search for answers with a campaign directed at the hearts and minds of the American people:


• a professional rollout of a national public relations campaign and trusted spokespeople to reshape image and regain momentum in order to broaden our reach

• a uniform and coordinated methodology for regional action feeding off and feeding into that campaign nationwide

• a disciplined Internet presence structured in content and tone to reshape public perception and create reasonable doubt

Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. As we see ourselves in no position to argue, we would urge all who share our simple goal – truthful answers to reasonable questions – to abandon those methodologies which have proven, over and over again, not to work and come together in support of the time-tested strategies that will."



Is this really what people have donated money for? I'd be pretty annoyed if I gave money for a new investigation and it was spent on PR, pathetic twoof protests and more twoofy web pages.

Good luck finding "trusted spokespeople". :newlol

[Lupie]

The latest from NYCCAN'T:

http://www.nyccan.org/The_Turning_Point.php

"While the petition had its flaws, it was secure enough to be implemented if the City and the Supreme Court were so inclined. It took the petition and legal processes to realize that the current City administration will stop at nothing to keep 9/11 in the rear view mirror. Our best and current expert legal advice indicates that no petition of this kind, however framed, can ever be assured success in New York City. Hence, no more time, energy, or money will be spent on this court action or a new petition effort."



In other words, this is a monumental failure, but they are keeping the money anyway. I don't know what's more pathetic, these lame excuses for total failure, or the fact that nobody is going to ask for their money back. And they have the gall to call other people "sheeple".

L.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

"a consistent stream of stories"

And that's all they are, STORIES.

[Thunder]

The latest from NYCCAN'T:

http://www.nyccan.org/The_Turning_Point.php

"While the petition had its flaws, it was secure enough to be implemented if the City and the Supreme Court were so inclined. It took the petition and legal processes to realize that the current City administration will stop at nothing to keep 9/11 in the rear view mirror. Our best and current expert legal advice indicates that no petition of this kind, however framed, can ever be assured success in New York City. Hence, no more time, energy, or money will be spent on this court action or a new petition effort."


I just read a good portion of this new article at NYCCAN.

It basically says that they give up. They now understand that they can never achieve their goals through legitimate, legal, professional, and sophisticated means.

All they can ever hope to do is convince like minded nuts, fools, paranoid-schizophrenics, snake-oil salesmen, and others emotionally vulnerable folks looking for a purpose in life.

The only way they can ever achieve anything is through the mob.

Or, in laymens terms, da Twoof lost again!!!!!!! hahahaaha!!!

Sad, though. Even the Nazis, with all their paranoia and insanity, still were able to make use of the democratic process in a very effective manner.

Maybe the Truthers need to focus more on the Jews?

:(

[jhunter1163]

"While the petition had its flaws, it was secure enough to be implemented if the City and the Supreme Court were so inclined. It took the petition and legal processes to realize that the current City administration will stop at nothing to keep 9/11 in the rear view mirror. Our best and current expert legal advice indicates that no petition of this kind, however framed, can ever be assured success in New York City. Hence, no more time, energy, or money will be spent on this court action or a new petition effort."

Translation: When we showed this to a real lawyer, he showed us the door in between giggles.


"Our goal is now multimedia saturation – a consistent stream of stories through a cross-section of print media, regional, network and cable news outlets and their Internet counterparts."


Translation: We're going to keep on putting out press releases in the hope that someone somewhere might actually read one.

"We know many of you, like us, see our marginalized movement’s stalled momentum as a call to effective action – a call to take the fight to our detractors by using the very tools they employ to promote their own agenda. We must use these same time-tested tools to elevate our own search for answers with a campaign directed at the hearts and minds of the American people:


Begging for money in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

• a professional rollout of a national public relations campaign and trusted spokespeople to reshape image and regain momentum in order to broaden our reach


Translation: We're gonna ask Charlie Sheen to be our spokesguy. His agent will, of course, not let him touch it with the proverbial ten-foot pole.

• a uniform and coordinated methodology for regional action feeding off and feeding into that campaign nationwide

These are Twoofers we're talking about here. You could tell ten Twoofers to be at the post office at three o'clock and four of them might show up if it's not raining. They've never been able to coordinate anything; I don't see them starting now.

• a disciplined Internet presence structured in content and tone to reshape public perception and create reasonable doubt


Like that paragon of discipline and restraint, Alex Jones?

Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


Indeed.

As I've said before, if I was in charge of strategy for the Twoofies, I would lay low until maybe spring of 2011, and then start some programs to coincide with the spike of media coverage around the 10th anniversary. The leaders of the Twoofy movement, though, have bills to pay, so they'll keep on fleecing until there are no sheep left.

Wow. That was a lot of typing for me.

[LashL]

"While the petition had its flaws,


That might just be the understatement of the year.

it was secure enough to be implemented if the City and the Supreme Court were so inclined.
In what alternate universe?


our marginalized movement
stalled momentum
reshape image
regain momentum
a disciplined Internet presence
structured in content and tone
to reshape public perception

Heh. In other words, they recognize that they look like a bunch of loons and they are hoping to tone down the craziest of the crazies, in order to try to look half sane.

Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. As we see ourselves in no position to argue
That only took ... how many years for them to figure out?

Is this really what people have donated money for? I'd be pretty annoyed if I gave money for a new investigation and it was spent on PR, pathetic twoof protests and more twoofy web pages.


Indeed.

Good luck finding "trusted spokespeople". :newlol


Ditto! :D

[Thunder]

I know we can't really claim credit for this one, but in some ways, this is the greatest victory Debunkers have ever had!!!

go us!!! we did it!!! we're #1!!!

New York City 1: 9-11 Truth 0.

:)

[Hubbub]

As I've said before, if I was in charge of strategy for the Twoofies, I would lay low until maybe spring of 2011, and then start some programs to coincide with the spike of media coverage around the 10th anniversary.

I agree. It seems they got their biggest bump at the 5th anniversary. The 10th anniversary is going to be the last major "9/11 remembrance day" for a long time. I dare say that 2011 will be their last bump ever, if there is a bump there at all. More than ten years after an event, it starts to be regarded as "history" in the public consciousness.

Not too big of a movement to redo the Warren commission nowadays...

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

I agree. It seems they got their biggest bump at the 5th anniversary. The 10th anniversary is going to be the last major "9/11 remembrance day" for a long time. I dare say that 2011 will be their last bump ever, if there is a bump there at all. More than ten years after an event, it starts to be regarded as "history" in the public consciousness.

Not too big of a movement to redo the Warren commission nowadays...

The last bump they'll have is when we all stop playing whack a mole with those ingrates.

[Hubbub]

The last bump they'll have is when we all stop playing whack a mole with those ingrates.

Duly noted. :D

[Orphia Nay]

Translation: When we showed this to a real lawyer, he showed us the door in between giggles.




Translation: We're going to keep on putting out press releases in the hope that someone somewhere might actually read one.



Begging for money in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...



Translation: We're gonna ask Charlie Sheen to be our spokesguy. His agent will, of course, not let him touch it with the proverbial ten-foot pole.



These are Twoofers we're talking about here. You could tell ten Twoofers to be at the post office at three o'clock and four of them might show up if it's not raining. They've never been able to coordinate anything; I don't see them starting now.



Like that paragon of discipline and restraint, Alex Jones?



Indeed.

As I've said before, if I was in charge of strategy for the Twoofies, I would lay low until maybe spring of 2011, and then start some programs to coincide with the spike of media coverage around the 10th anniversary. The leaders of the Twoofy movement, though, have bills to pay, so they'll keep on fleecing until there are no sheep left.

Wow. That was a lot of typing for me.

:big:

[Brainster]

Jon Gold claims that Ted Walter claims that ... aw heck, read it yourself (http://www.truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5964):


JREFers have said that a lawyer looked at the petition and said it wasn't viable, so a new lawyer was consulted who said it was, and they went with him. Is there any truth to that? Just wondering. How do JREFers know?

I was told that the SLC/JREF story wasn't true by Ted Walter. I gave you his email address before. Please use it.

I certainly don't think that Victoria is about to turn debunker, but it's interesting that she's starting to realize that we're not the people who are lying here. Of course, that's a bridge too far for Jon Gold right now. Ted Walter himself is still a complete cypher to me; the tone of that article from NYCCAN is hilarious; oh, the secret is educating the sheeple? Like that hadn't been the focus of the movement until... oh, I don't know, until NYCCAN came around?

[Orphia Nay]

Jon Gold posted the text of the new NYCAN'T article at 9/11 Blogger earlier today, and there were a number of comments (of the splitter variety, naturally). Now that page says "Access Denied".

http://www.911blogger.com/node/21649

[Travis]

Why am I not surprised?

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Jon Gold posted the text of the new NYCAN'T article at 9/11 Blogger earlier today, and there were a number of comments (of the splitter variety, naturally). Now that page says "Access Denied".

http://www.911blogger.com/node/21649

You might not have permission to view this directory or page using the credentials you supplied.

I smell a conspiracy to hide the truth. Truthers are behind it all!

[Alt+F4]

"Our goal is now multimedia saturation – a consistent stream of stories through a cross-section of print media, regional, network and cable news outlets and their Internet counterparts."[/I]

To what purpose? To get the public to demand a new investigation, something they said could only be done outside the confines of government? What hypocrites.

I guess YouTube, Stormfront and Infowars will see a bit more business but that's about it.

[jhunter1163]

I certainly don't think that Victoria is about to turn debunker, but it's interesting that she's starting to realize that we're not the people who are lying here.


I've noticed this too. I think Victoria could be turned if someone wanted to put a little effort into it. She's realizing that all is not as it seems with NYCCAN'T, and maybe by extension with the whole Twoofy movement.

[Comrade Raptor]

As frustrating as truthers stuck in their wild and wooly nutjobbery can be, I'm always happy to welcome one back from the brink into the warm embrace of sanity.

[Brainster]

I've noticed this too. I think Victoria could be turned if someone wanted to put a little effort into it. She's realizing that all is not as it seems with NYCCAN'T, and maybe by extension with the whole Twoofy movement.

Remember, she's Jim Hoffman's wife.:D

[jhunter1163]

Remember, she's Jim Hoffman's wife.:D

Well, yes, but she's been sounding some discordant notes for a while now. It would be quite a blow to Hoffman if we could say "even your own wife doesn't believe your stuff!"

[Cl1mh4224rd]

• a disciplined Internet presence structured in content and tone to reshape public perception and create reasonable doubt


And the 9/11 Truth Movement retreats one more step.

They've gone from demanding their alleged-yet-ill-defined perpetrators be incarcerated or even executed, to demanding a new investigation into the events, to merely attempting to "create reasonable doubt"... on the Internet.

ETA:

Jon Gold posted the text of the new NYCAN'T article at 9/11 Blogger earlier today, and there were a number of comments (of the splitter variety, naturally). Now that page says "Access Denied".

http://www.911blogger.com/node/21649
You might not have permission to view this directory or page using the credentials you supplied.

I smell a conspiracy to hide the truth. Truthers are behind it all!


It's seems to be working again.

[Leviath]

"Our goal is now multimedia saturation – a consistent stream of stories through a cross-section of print media, regional, network and cable news outlets and their Internet counterparts."


Does anyone else think about creationists and the Dover trial when hey read this?

[Comsat Angel]

"We know many of you, like us, see our marginalized movement’s stalled momentum as a call to effective action"

I don't think so. I think many of this marginalized movement will be fed up to the back teeth with being associated with such a gigantic Fail and will bail. Either back to the Real World or to another, more relevant, Conspiracy Theory.

"Our best and current expert legal advice indicates that no petition of this kind, however framed, can ever be assured success in New York City"

I think LashL's Un-Named Source told them this way back at the beginning of their charade. Because it was utter nonsense. A prediction they then chose to ignore.

So. They are now back to being an annoying presence on the internet. How the mighty have fallen, eh?

[Thunder]

"Our best and current expert legal advice indicates that no petition of this kind, however framed, can ever be assured success in New York City"

how dare they waste the City of New York's time with this garbage if they were told long ago that their petition had no chance of success.

how dare they waste the money of their donators, who sincerely believed that the referendum would be put on the ballot.

who do these people think they are? are the Truthers, many of which I know do care about truth and honesty, gonna let this just fly by?

they got played..big time. if NYCCAN got good legal advice that the petition had zero chance, and NYCCAN instead chose to find another lawyer who disagreed, then NYCCAN is a fraud and should be investigated by the proper authorities.

I am not a fan of Truthers and their theories, but my fellow New Yorkers, regardless of their beliefs deserve better then this.

[Mr.Herbert]

Too Soon?

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/CameronFox/NYCCANT-1.jpg

Picture replaced with link. Please do not post copyrighted images in threads.

[Thunder]

I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr.Herbert]

I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:) I had to put it as my avatar for a while.

[Thunder]

:) I had to put it as my avatar for a while.

as they say in Bensonhurst, "dats a beeuutiful ting"

[Brainster]

Too Soon?

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/CameronFox/NYCCANT-1.jpg

That's terrific! Can I post it at SLC?

[Orphia Nay]

Love it, Mr. Herbert! :newlol

To what purpose? To get the public to demand a new investigation, something they said could only be done outside the confines of government? What hypocrites.

Good point.

Their purpose is to get more people to confirm their delusions...

but as usual, they haven't thought things through, because if that happens, then they won't feel special anymore... ;)

[Travis]

I still think it's extremely odd they wanted a city commission to investigate the Federal Government. I mean what do they think would happen the first time they ask for classified documents?

Granted this is all moot since they even screwed up the process of just asking for an insane proposition.

[Thunder]

I still think it's extremely odd they wanted a city commission to investigate the Federal Government. .

it either shows one of two things:

a. the folks at NYCCAN are extremely stupid. Only an arrogant moron believes that a city can investigate Federal agencies.

b. the folks at NYCCAN knew that they would end up failing, and simply tried to get publicity for their ideas.

frankly, considering that they had an attorney tell them that their petition had no hope, I am starting to believe that the answer is b...and they knew they would fail.

[TjW]

Well, I'm perfectly willing to believe that they didn't go to the lawyer with a better grasp of reality first. But I'm also willing to believe that they would carry on even after they were told it was hopeless.
I mean, really, can you imagine a press release from them which said something like: "We've discovered that a city commission would in fact not be able to effectively investigate the federal government, so we're not wasting any more time and effort on this."
Has a twoofer ever turned loose of an idea?

[Mr.Herbert]

That's terrific! Can I post it at SLC?

Please do!

[Alt+F4]

I still think it's extremely odd they wanted a city commission to investigate the Federal Government. I mean what do they think would happen the first time they ask for classified documents?


They wouldn't even be able to ask for a classified document the way their "commission" was supposed to be set up. It called for no use, whatsoever of government resources. Who the heck did they think was going to supply them with the documents, a troofer fairy?

What would have been the penalty to persons who laughed then ripped up one of the "commission's" super-duper supoenas? 9/11 jail in Ed Asner's Malibu home?

[Thunder]

You know, in some strange, twisted way, part of me wishes that they actually were able to have their little investigation.

Not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:)

though, it does appear the Truthers have begun to learn a little:

"
A haphazard dissemination of everything under the 9/11 sun, from credible evidence to amateur analysis, and from half-baked theory to full-blown truth, is not the way to convert the pervasive skepticism we face today. When we learn to control the content, flow and presentation of information in a more simplified and direct fashion we will control its effect.
What is missing is one carefully vetted, content-controlled web presence – a virtual ‘Citizens’ Commission’ containing a professionally designed interactive catalogue of the most legally sound evidence and a video portal for expert testimony to be used in an eventual investigation or court action. Laid out in easy-to-navigate chapter and verse, casual inquiry moves efficiently from the center of the story outward. If executed properly, casual inquiry will work its way to responsible, civic-minded action. But we must begin with the basics."


this is clearly a huge rebuke of Alex Jones and his New World Order, chemtrails, Freemasons, Illuminati insanity.

[TjW]

You know, in some strange, twisted way, part of me wishes that they actually were able to have their little investigation.

Not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:)

though, it does appear the Truthers have begun to learn a little:

"
A haphazard dissemination of everything under the 9/11 sun, from credible evidence to amateur analysis, and from half-baked theory to full-blown truth, is not the way to convert the pervasive skepticism we face today. When we learn to control the content, flow and presentation of information in a more simplified and direct fashion we will control its effect.
What is missing is one carefully vetted, content-controlled web presence – a virtual ‘Citizens’ Commission’ containing a professionally designed interactive catalogue of the most legally sound evidence and a video portal for expert testimony to be used in an eventual investigation or court action. Laid out in easy-to-navigate chapter and verse, casual inquiry moves efficiently from the center of the story outward. If executed properly, casual inquiry will work its way to responsible, civic-minded action. But we must begin with the basics."


this is clearly a huge rebuke of Alex Jones and his New World Order, chemtrails, Freemasons, Illuminati insanity.

Still, I don't any mention of actual, verifiable facts being required: just "a carefully vetted, content-controlled web presence." If one were cynical enough, one could translate this as: "A web site with only our lies on it."

[Seymour Butz]

The New York City Charter is a public document that anyone can read. Why would the truthers put a provision in their petition stating that commissioners could live outside of NYC when the Charter specifically says they can't?


Now that WOULD be a good argument for fraud against these morons.

I'm no lawyer, but it doesn't seem open to debate or someone's opinion (like the godess stated) on this issue.

Similar to needing 30k signatures. Turning in 20k ain't gonna cut it, even if you ignore the eligibility issues.

[ZilchNix]

I guess this would be a good time to add that NYCCANT did actually consult a real election lawyer (an experienced and well respected one) after they submitted their horrifically doomed-to-fail petition, but the real lawyer told them that their petition could not and would not possibly succeed.

So, NYCCANT carried on with its doomed-to-fail petition and its doomed-to-fail non-practicing lawyer, Dennis Whatsisname, instead of retaining the real lawyer, and instead of telling its membership that the petition could not possibly succeed.

NYCCANT chose to fleece as many naive truthers as possible for a few more dollars before it went down in flames, as it knew would happen.

Normally, one would say "good on ya" to NYCCANT for actually consulting a legitimate lawyer with legitimate experience (unlike that Dennis fellow), but NYCCANT never once told its gaggle of naive morons that it had received legal advice indicating that the petition was destined to fail, and NYCCANT knew that it was going to fail spectacularly but remained silent about that. Instead, NYCCANT strung its gaggle of "truther" lemmings along for as long as it could, right up to the enbarrassing failure that iresulted.

How frigging sad is that? Very, very sad.

"Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus
Just out of curiosity, how did you find this out?"

The NWO works in mysterious ways. Beyond that, sorry, but I am not at liberty to say.

Fascinating. I'll speculate:

1. LashL is making this up (doubtful)

2. LashL is psychic (possible- but probably not the source of this info. Anyway, if she's psychic, how come she hasn't claimed the JREF award?)

3. The 'real' lawyer or someone on their staff leaked it to LashL, or told someone who told her (if this happened, it was probably the 'real' lawyer- however, that would mean they're a despicable lawyer- OK, this is possible; they're a lawyer, right? Still, I speculate this is probably not the source in this case)

4. Unless I've overlooked a possibility, it seems it's down to: Someone associated with NYCCAN leaked it to LashL (Most likely, imho- and I'm guessing they're also her source for the documents)

Can I buy you a drink, LashL?

[Brainache]

Fascinating. I'll speculate:

1. LashL is making this up (doubtful)

2. LashL is psychic (possible- but probably not the source of this info. Anyway, if she's psychic, how come she hasn't claimed the JREF award?)

3. The 'real' lawyer or someone on their staff leaked it to LashL, or told someone who told her (if this happened, it was probably the 'real' lawyer- however, that would mean they're a despicable lawyer- OK, this is possible; they're a lawyer, right? Still, I speculate this is probably not the source in this case)

4. Unless I've overlooked a possibility, it seems it's down to: Someone associated with NYCCAN leaked it to LashL (Most likely, imho- and I'm guessing they're also her source for the documents)

Can I buy you a drink, LashL?

1st post and already you're trying to hit on LashL?
Good luck getting past her army of legally leather-bound acolytes...

Oh, and welcome to the forum Zilchnix.

[AJM8125]

Fascinating. I'll speculate:

1. LashL is making this up (doubtful)

2. LashL is psychic (possible- but probably not the source of this info. Anyway, if she's psychic, how come she hasn't claimed the JREF award?)

3. The 'real' lawyer or someone on their staff leaked it to LashL, or told someone who told her (if this happened, it was probably the 'real' lawyer- however, that would mean they're a despicable lawyer- OK, this is possible; they're a lawyer, right? Still, I speculate this is probably not the source in this case)

4. Unless I've overlooked a possibility, it seems it's down to: Someone associated with NYCCAN leaked it to LashL (Most likely, imho- and I'm guessing they're also her source for the documents)

Can I buy you a drink, LashL?

Dude.

5. Yes, she's that good.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Fascinating. I'll speculate:

1. LashL is making this up (doubtful)

2. LashL is psychic (possible- but probably not the source of this info. Anyway, if she's psychic, how come she hasn't claimed the JREF award?)

3. The 'real' lawyer or someone on their staff leaked it to LashL, or told someone who told her (if this happened, it was probably the 'real' lawyer- however, that would mean they're a despicable lawyer- OK, this is possible; they're a lawyer, right? Still, I speculate this is probably not the source in this case)

4. Unless I've overlooked a possibility, it seems it's down to: Someone associated with NYCCAN leaked it to LashL (Most likely, imho- and I'm guessing they're also her source for the documents)

Can I buy you a drink, LashL?

OMG! It's a "conspiracy"!! :wide-eyed :jaw-dropp :yikes: :shocked:

[Hokulele]

Fascinating. I'll speculate:


Yes, yes you will.

[Brainster]

Unless I've overlooked a possibility, it seems it's down to: Someone associated with NYCCAN leaked it to LashL (Most likely, imho- and I'm guessing they're also her source for the documents)

Like I said earlier in the thread, you'd be surprised at the Truthers who have contacted me to feed me information about other Truthers. Very surprised. I know I was.

[jhunter1163]

Welcome to the forum, ZilchNix.

As long as you're speculating, maybe you could speculate as to why, even though they knew the petition was doomed to fail as early as July, the powers that be at NYCCAN'T charged ahead anyway and wasted a whole lot of scarce Truthy resources. Seems to me that's a better use of your time than speculating about who leaked what to whom.

[ZilchNix]

Thx for the welcomes, Brainache and jhunter1163. I realized I overlooked a couple possibilities for LashL's source:

4a) Dennis McMahon or someone from his office.

5) NYCCAN was being wiretapped, and someone involved passed the info to LashL. (I'm judging this unlikely, but what do I know- I'm not 'in the know'- LashL is)

Brainster- I'm intrigued, and I would be surprised- if the names are other than those who have a history of sowing discord and promoting bogus info.

jmhunter1163- OK, I'll indulge you: speculation as to why NYCCAN might proceed with a petition that qualified counsel informed them "could not and would not possibly succeed."

1) The current NYCCAN organizers meant well, were overly optimistic and did the best they could with a poorly-drafted petition, but didn't think things through properly. Info was suppressed because it was judged to be potentially 'discouraging', and ignored the fact that it's hypocritical to advocate for disclosure and accountability while not practicing it.

2) The original and current organizers were in it only for the money, suppressed pertinent information that might depress fundraising efforts/truther support, shamelessly milked well-meaning but gullible supporters for everything they could get, and will now continue to do so with another venture.

3) NYCCAN was set up to fail from the beginning. It's clear from the Petition's text, the Clerk's 9/8 and 9/24 Memos and the NYCCAN 9/21 Memo that the Petition was flawed in numerous ways. It should have been obvious to experienced attorneys like William Pepper and Carl Person- and especially Person, as he has experience with NYC initiatives- that it would be disallowed by the Clerk/Court, and that if by some odd twist of fate it was passed into law, that its structure would compromise any investigation. Les Jamieson was also one of the petition drafters and original organizers; this raised red flags for many at the time, given his history of promoting bogus info and associating with disreputable characters.

4) Some combination of the above, or something else.

"I sincerely appreciate all of the thank you posts, but really, the thanks should rightly go to my contact, who provided the documents on such a timely basis. Had it not been for the fact that they were being posted here, the conspiracy fantasists behind NYCCANT would never have posted anything except their own propaganda for as long as they could string their gullible followers along, and I think that we collectively did a good job here at the JREF forums to force them to acknowledge reality, at least temporarily, as a direct result of the documents being posted here so that the NYCCANT conspiracy fantasists were forced into posting them after we did so here.

I am not going to publicly disclose the name of the person who made this all come together, but to "you know who you are":*Thank you!

Cheers,
Lash"

It still seems most probable that LashL's source is someone associated w/ NYCCAN. If that's the case, it might be that someone at NYCCAN figured out the initiative was not what it was being sold as and decided (perhaps in the interest of transparency and justice) to make info public that was being suppressed. However, some obvious questions are:

1) Why were the docs and the info about the 'real' attorney only given to LashL/JREF, and why LashL/JREF?

2) LashL- "I guess this would be a good time to add that NYCCANT did actually consult a real election lawyer" LashL, when did you first receive this info, and why did you decide that "a good time" was not until after Lehner ruled?

The name of your source is not necessarily important, but, imho, the answers to the above questions would be helpful in understanding what happened with NYCCAN, and what's going on in the so-called '9/11 Truth' and 'Debunker' movements.

[Mr.D]

'Debunker' movements.

There's a debunker "movement?"

A JREF/debunker "online-community," fursure, but "movement?"

Really.

[Hokulele]

There's a debunker "movement?"

A JREF/debunker "online-community," fursure, but "movement?"

Really.


Maybe we should start one. We could have cool t-shirts, refreshments, and PowerPoint presenta...

Hmm, never mind.

[Travis]

Maybe we should start one. We could have cool t-shirts, refreshments, and PowerPoint presenta...

Hmm, never mind.

Well, we already have a mascot.

[AJM8125]

:popcorn1

[Brainache]

Well, we already have a mascot.

I can see someone in a big NWO Kitty suit marching at the head of huge crowd of JREFers all waving placards saying stuff like: "Evidence?", "Vote For Planet X!", "Don't Parrot Stupid Truther Lies!", "Care To Answer, RedIbis?". The JREFers would all be singing our stirring Debunker anthem: "All We Are Saying, Is Give Brains A Chance". Or chanting: "Debunkers United, Will never be Refuted!".

We could hand out copies of the 10,000 page NIST report to confused onlookers and stage a public peer review of Steven Jones, Neils Harrit, Richard Gage etc.

That will make those Shills in the lunatic fringe media take notice of us!!!!


or not.

[jhunter1163]

ZilchNix:

Thank you for your indulgence. I think that the petition drafters probably meant well, and wanted to create something that would have a chance of passage; but once they got the bit in their teeth, they ran with it and ignored some pretty plain warnings that the petition as written was legally inadequate.

As you know if you have read the entire thread, LashL is herself an attorney and thus has contacts and access to documents that we mere mortals don't have. I don't think we can conclude that her source was necessarily within NYCCAN, although I agree that it's entirely possible and maybe even likely, given the source's apparent familiarity with the group's unpublicized contacts.

Speaking for myself only, I appreciate your civil tone. It's refreshing to deal with someone from the "other side", if you will, in a polite way.

[TjW]

There's a debunker "movement?"

A JREF/debunker "online-community," fursure, but "movement?"

Really.

Yes. It's kind of like the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacree Movement: all ya got to do to join is to point out a fact the next time a twoofer claim comes around. With feeling.

[Sam.I.Am]

Yes. It's kind of like the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacree Movement: all ya got to do to join is to point out a fact the next time a twoofer claim comes around. With feeling.

Don't forget the 8x10 glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back explaining what it was.

[jhunter1163]

You know there's all kinds of mean and nasty people in the debunker movement. Mother-rapers... father-stabbers... father-rapers...

[LashL]

I am vastly amused that someone signed up here for (apparently) the sole purpose of attempting to get me to divulge information that I have already said quite plainly that I will not divulge.

As I said before, the NWO works in mysterious ways.

Oh, and:

r9ObLGRq33o

[Brainster]

Brainster- I'm intrigued, and I would be surprised- if the names are other than those who have a history of sowing discord and promoting bogus info.

No, I'm not talking about David Ray Griffin.

You're approaching this from the wrong angle. The important thing is not who's leaking this information, it's who's not disclosing it, and indeed, actively hiding it, so that it can be leaked.

[LashL]

Tick tock, tick tock.

The time for NYCCAN'T to appeal is running out. I just thought I'd remind them that they still have time, though.

Personally, I would love to see them appeal this decision as I am always up for further and better Legaltainment™ and I am always up for more spectacular failures by the *cough* "Truth Movement" ;)

Tick tock, tick tock.

[Brainster]

Sorry, LashL, looks like they're going the PR route (http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/871/page/6#post-9017). Ted Walter says they're planning:

a nationwide campaign to pass local resolutions calling for a new investigation, either through local advisory ballot initiatives, or by lobbying supportive city councils where advisory initiatives are not allowed. Other causes like troop withdrawal and impeachment gained and manifested strength through this kind of coordinated national campaign.

a PR campaign employing former government, military and intelligence professionals and hiring a PR firm to ensure access to mainstream media and a perfectly crafted public image. Writing of grant proposals for this project, an for the nationwide ballot initiative campaign, is underway. We expect to raise significant sums of money to help make 2010 a watershed year for 9/11 accountability to fully enter the mainstream.

-sustained campaign lobbying new Manhattan DA to open an investigation into the destruction of the buildings.

-getting close to a civil suit brought by 9/11 families so that we will have court ordered subpoena power.

[Orphia Nay]

-getting close to a civil suit brought by 9/11 families so that we will have court ordered subpoena power.

That is sad in so many ways.

[Alt+F4]

-getting close to a civil suit brought by 9/11 families so that we will have court ordered subpoena power.

A civil suit against who?

[Alt+F4]

Sorry, LashL, looks like they're going the PR route (http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/871/page/6#post-9017). Ted Walter says they're planning:

So they have a conference call once a month...but then people miss it.

[Scott Sommers]

WAC is saying something about a state-wide initiative, "Similiar to what NYC CAN did". Does anyone have any information on this?

[Alt+F4]

In New York State?

[Mr.D]

"Similiar to what NYC CAN did"

Fail?

[Orphia Nay]

WAC is saying something about a state-wide initiative, "Similiar to what NYC CAN did". Does anyone have any information on this?

I had a look at the WAC site, but couldn't see anything. Where did you hear that?

[Sam.I.Am]

I had a look at the WAC site, but couldn't see anything. Where did you hear that?

Well if you look at... OH MY GOD!! YOUR HAIR IS ON FIRE!!

[Scott Sommers]

once again posted in the wrong place.

[Thunder]

WAC is saying something about a state-wide initiative, "Similiar to what NYC CAN did". Does anyone have any information on this?

they just had a New York City massive failure. do they now want a massively massive New York State failure?

are these guys masochists or what?

if City Council run 9-11 investigation won't pass, then a New York State Legislature 9-11 investigation will SURELY fail!!! the legislature has a lot more conservatives then the NYC Council.

[Horatius]

they just had a New York City massive failure. do they now want a massively massive New York State failure?




Have you ever heard the term "Failing upwards"?


Apparently, they think it's an actual game plan.

[bje]

Well if you look at... OH MY GOD!! YOUR HAIR IS ON FIRE!!

There's no one more beautiful than a flaming redhead.

[BigAl]

they just had a New York City massive failure. do they now want a massively massive New York State failure?

are these guys masochists or what?

if City Council run 9-11 investigation won't pass, then a New York State Legislature 9-11 investigation will SURELY fail!!! the legislature has a lot more conservatives then the NYC Council.

Gotta keep up some facade that allows for the ongoing requests for donations.

[dudalb]

It seems as though some people have an endless appetite for huge helpings of Fail.

[triforcharity]

Gotta keep up some facade that allows for the ongoing requests for donations.

DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! Wha'dda we have for him JJooohhhnnnyyyy???

That is the Truth Movement summed up in 13 words. Wait, do I see another conspiracy??

[Brainster]

Take this with more than the usual grain of salt, as it's originally from American Free Press, linked at a Troofer forum (http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/871/page/6#post-9023) to avoid sending them any traffic:

But this statement announcing the move to a “PR mode” did not sit well with all NYC CAN supporters. Kevin Barrett, a well-known lecturer on 9-11 issues, told AFP: “As a strong supporter of NYC CAN, I am disappointed by their decision to give up the legal fight. Their press release announcing that decision [not to appeal] was not very impressive. It was little more than a long-winded, repetitious diatribe about how the truth movement needs to improve its PR techniques. The thesis was that by abandoning the ballot initiative struggle, and issuing a poorly-written email urging us to get better at PR, NYC CAN was somehow taking the battle for 9/11 truth to the next level. I am baffled by this press release. I would have preferred a clear and concise explanation of precisely why they’re abandoning the project they’ve worked so hard on. ‘Because we ran out of money to pay the lawyers’ would have sufficed.”

Person disagrees with the city Law Department’s assessment [reported in AFP last week, No. 43, Oct. 26] that the special investigative commission that would have been created had the 9-11 ballot proposal been fully approved lacked legal authority to subpoena witnesses, etc.

“It was to be a government agency,” given authority by the voters, Person explained, adding, however, that the lack of a clear funding mechanism and the proposed commission’s make-up consisting of a lot of non-New Yorkers helped diminish the petition’s chances, in his view.

[grandmastershek]

WAC is saying something about a state-wide initiative, "Similiar to what NYC CAN did". Does anyone have any information on this?

Why don't they just start with Judge Judy and see how that goes first?

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a19/grnadmastershek/truther.jpg