A Muslim Call for Ijtihad

[Skeptic]

No, that's not a typo. "Ijtihad" has nothing to do with "jihad"; it means "independent thought". Ineresting article in the jerusalem post:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull%26cid=1070942841818

You might have to register to see it, but don't worry, you won't be giving any money to the evil zionist occupiers by so doing; registration is free.

[Tony]

Can you please highlight the parts of the article you think are relevant?

[Skeptic]

Here are some:

Irshad Manji was nine when she began questioning her faith. First, she learned that girls weren't allowed to lead prayers at her local mosque. Then she was taught to hate Jews.

"When I heard my madrassah teacher ranting against Jews for worshiping moolah more than Allah, I thought, hang on a second, that doesn't make any sense," she explains.



She has received death threats and hate mail along with expressions of support from Muslims eager for change.

For Manji, though, change means action. "We can't simply chant 'Islam means peace, Islam is love, Islam leads to harmony' if all we're doing is chanting," she says.



Do you think a permanent peace treaty between Israel and the Palestinians would result in a decrease of anti-semitism?

A decrease, maybe, but not enough of a decrease. Proof positive that a political settlement won't curb Muslim Jew-hatred can be seen in Egypt and Jordan, the only two Arab Muslim states that have peace treaties with Israel. In both countries, Jew-bashing runs rampant. That's not to say I oppose peace talks. I passionately support a two-state solution. Still, I don't see this as the way to end Muslim Jew-hatred. Muslims began officially vilifying Jews and legalizing their second-class status centuries before the state of Israel existed.



What kinds of messages are you hearing these days in the mosques?

Not all mosques are political. Some are, and from those I'm hearing two main messages: that there is a Jewish-led Western conspiracy against Islam and, even more frightening, that Muslims in the West have a responsibility to support the jihadists, if not with their sons then at least with their money. Even in a public building here in Toronto, where Muslims gather to pray every Friday, I heard a young articulate imam scream into a microphone only a few months ago that the jihad starts here. Not over there, here. He was pointing to a room full of Muslim men and he said: "If you do not exercise your responsibility to fight the jihad, then make no mistake, your children will have to do it for you. One way or another, it will happen."


Ah, Islam, the religion of peace and progress. If by "progress" you mean 10th-century Arabia and by "peace" totalitarian rule over anybody who isn't Muslim.

[Ed]

Originally posted by Skeptic
No, that's not a typo. "Ijtihad" has nothing to do with "jihad"; it means "independent thought". Ineresting article in the jerusalem post:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull%26cid=1070942841818

You might have to register to see it, but don't worry, you won't be giving any money to the evil zionist occupiers by so doing; registration is free.

Evil zionist scheckel grubbers use your registration info to sell ad space. They are more cleverthan the average goy.

Bwahahahhahahahahahaah

[Tony]

Any info about a fatwa being issued for this woman's death Skeptic? I'd be surprised if there wasn't.

[Charlie Monoxide]

scheckel grubbers Isn't that the phonetic spelling of the surname of a famous German?

Charlie (mein chow mein) Monoxide

[Skeptic]

No info about a fatwa, but, of course, she DID recieve death threats. But then again, mere death threats from islamists (Amir Taheri's term for what we usually call "radical islam") is not news.

[The Fool]

What we really need is another forum called "What all muslims are like". Maybe we could have another called "what Americans believe" and "What all Jews think" It would give bigoted generalisations like


Ah, Islam, the religion of peace and progress. If by "progress" you mean 10th-century Arabia and by "peace" totalitarian rule over anybody who isn't Muslim.


a homeland of thier own.......

[Mr Manifesto]

Shooting at rock-throwers from an armoured bulldozer is so much more progressive, I say.

[Skeptic]

a homeland of thier own.......

...which is, of course, Judenrein and under Sharia law.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Skeptic


...which is, of course, Judenrein and under Sharia law.
so, do all muslims desire to live under sharia law? Is that one of the things we can add to the list of what "all muslims want" And while we are at it do all muslims desire to live in places where there are no Jews? Is this another thing we can add to the list of "what all muslims want"?

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by The Fool
so, do all muslims desire to live under sharia law? Is that one of the things we can add to the list of what "all muslims want" And while we are at it do all muslims desire to live in places where there are no Jews? Is this another thing we can add to the list of "what all muslims want"?

He posts an article about a Muslim dissident, and you accuse him of painting all Muslims with the same brush? How illogical.

Do you have any comment on the actual article, or are you content to just smear the messenger?

[Skeptic]

He posts an article about a Muslim dissident...

...which, in particular, makes clear that, apart from death threats, she got many calls from Muslims who agree with her...

and you accuse him of painting all Muslims with the same brush?

...not to menton my posts about Amir Taheri, for instance, who is of course a Muslim.

How illogical.

Yup.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Mycroft


He posts an article about a Muslim dissident, and you accuse him of painting all Muslims with the same brush? How illogical.

Do you have any comment on the actual article, or are you content to just smear the messenger?

Yes, I accuse him of painting all Muslims with the same brush.


Thats the way he works........Maybe you have not read a lot of his stuff?

Its the simplistic answer to a complicated question, Its easier for "Skeptic" to proclaim"all muslims are...." than try to be part of the solution.

Why don't you ask him instead of me, he never grows weary of telling people about it..... All muslims are bloodthirsty...... All muslims want to butcher Jews, Its classic stuff and simply reduces any contribution of his to bigoted rants.

He cries antisemitism to any criticism of even the smallest fanatical fringe of Jews yet allows himself open slather at bigoted generalisations of all muslims...wtf is that about????

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by The Fool
Its the simplistic answer to a complicated question, Its easier for "Skeptic" to proclaim"all muslims are...." than try to be part of the solution.

And it’s easier for you to smear him than to deal with any substantive issue he brings up. Whatever he’s said in the past, he is not saying All muslims are anything in this thread.

Tell me, in what way are you a part of the solution?

Originally posted by The Fool
Why don't you ask him instead of me..?

Because you’re the one trying to derail actual discussion by smearing the messenger.
Originally posted by The Fool
He cries antisemitism to any criticism of even the smallest fanatical fringe of Jews yet allows himself open slather at bigoted generalisations of all muslims...wtf is that about????

You’re doing exactly what you accuse Skeptic of doing. How is calling someone a bigot for bringing up a criticisms of Islamic culture different from calling someone an anti-Semite for criticizing Jews? It’s not.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Mycroft


And it’s easier for you to smear him than to deal with any substantive issue he brings up. Whatever he’s said in the past, he is not saying All muslims are anything in this thread.

I have to assume you can't read



Tell me, in what way are you a part of the solution?

By pointing out bigotry where it occurs, bigotry is at the heart of most of these issues....on both sides funnily enough. But not according to some.....eh?



Because you’re the one trying to derail actual discussion by smearing the messenger.

Is that why "skeptic" ends all his article postings with bigoted rants about evil muslims? to avoid derailing of a rational discussion of the article?


You’re doing exactly what you accuse Skeptic of doing. How is calling someone a bigot for bringing up a criticisms of Islamic culture different from calling someone an anti-Semite for criticizing Jews? It’s not.

AAAAHHHH! the Tony defence...pointing out bigotry is bigotry itself? I'll tell you the difference son.... If I critisize or comment on the behavior of the Israeli government am I talking about all Jews? If I critisize hamas am I talking about all Muslims? If I made statements on what "all Jews" did or thought...then I would be guilty of bigotry.....do you understand any better now?

Why is it that the bigots always squeal when someone steps in and disrupts a good "all muslims are..." thread? For some strange reason they think everyone should think that way....

[specious_reasons]

Originally posted by Mycroft

And it’s easier for you to smear him than to deal with any substantive issue he brings up. Whatever he’s said in the past, he is not saying All muslims are anything in this thread.

(snip)

Hmmm...

Ah, Islam, the religion of peace and progress. If by "progress" you mean 10th-century Arabia and by "peace" totalitarian rule over anybody who isn't Muslim.

Right after posting quotes from a muslim dissident. What a conclusion to draw!

It's a fine distinction between all muslims and almost all muslims.

Skeptic has a clear anti-muslim bias, he believes that Islam is a corrupt religion at the core. Sometimes it's hard to get past that to the (sometimes) substansive issues he raises.

[epepke]

Originally posted by Mycroft


He posts an article about a Muslim dissident, and you accuse him of painting all Muslims with the same brush? How illogical.

Do you have any comment on the actual article, or are you content to just smear the messenger?

Since Edward Said published Orientalism, in US intellectual circles, you can't even say that many Muslims urinate when their bladders are full without being accused of painting Muslims with a broad brush.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by The Fool
What we really need is another forum called "What all muslims are like". Maybe we could have another called "what Americans believe" and "What all Jews think" It would give bigoted generalisations like


Ah, Islam, the religion of peace and progress. If by "progress" you mean 10th-century Arabia and by "peace" totalitarian rule over anybody who isn't Muslim.


a homeland of thier own.......

I thought Saudia Arabia was their homeland. Isn't that where Mecca is?

Obviously some Muslims are willing to change.

She has received death threats and hate mail along with expressions of support from Muslims eager for change.

Alas, like most religious extremists, some muslims do make death threats. And some muslims, like X-tians, Hindus, et, want to take us back to the middle ages. Just that it seems that Islamic extremists are willing to go farther than other religious extremists.

[TillEulenspiegel]

Knock.knock...who's there? ... jehad....jehad who?
AHHHHHHHrrrgggg diee infidel!!!

72 vergins? I'd rather have two experienced horney 36 yr olds.