Zeitgeist Debunked - Cut Column

[Edx]

Again nothing astonishing for you guys but heres another video from if in case any of you are interested. :)

ii9KoYNBEx8

[ElMondoHummus]

YouTube link isn't working.

[Grizzly Bear]

Again nothing astonishing for you guys but heres another video from if in case any of you are interested. :)

ii9KoYNBEx8

fixed

EDIT: Some of your text is still difficult to read where it's dark against dark. I would fix that to make it easier to read where applicable

[ElMondoHummus]

Some other still pics of cleanup workers cutting the columns with torches are available at http://samhollenshead.com/. Under "Projects", click "WTC" and leaf through them.

I don't know what permissions someone would need to get in order to put them in a video or website, but his contact information is available at that site. I won't speak for him. Anyway, if others simply want to see more images of cutting, they're available at that page.

[Edx]

Thanks Grizzly! I just fixed it as well.

Some other still pics of cleanup workers cutting the columns with torches are available at http://samhollenshead.com/. Under "Projects", click "WTC" and leaf through them.

I don't know what permissions someone would need to get in order to put them in a video or website, but his contact information is available at that site. I won't speak for him. Anyway, if others simply want to see more images of cutting, they're available at that page.

Those are good pics! I think what I used is enough though for this particular vid

[TruthersLie]

I think your debunking video is well done...

but the scale is way off on the linear thermite cutter... it is cutting a piece of rebar... the thickness of your thumb. That device is smaller than a 2 liter bottle of coke.

or they were also cut by thermic lances. Which is what you show at the 310 minute mark. Those were NOT oxy torches, but thermic lances.

Oxy torches and thermic lances are different, but they both were used at ground zero.

[Edx]

I think your debunking video is well done...

but the scale is way off on the linear thermite cutter... it is cutting a piece of rebar... the thickness of your thumb. That device is smaller than a 2 liter bottle of coke.

Maybe, but its cutting a piece of steel (presumably) so if we scale it up to fit the approximate size of a column then the size of the device increases as well.

Im simply saying they didnt find any such devices and the only thing truthers have come up with is a device thats huge compared to what it was cutting.

or they were also cut by thermic lances. Which is what you show at the 310 minute mark. Those were NOT oxy torches, but thermic lances.

Oxy torches and thermic lances are different, but they both were used at ground zero.

Meh, its correct enough. Maybe I'll put in an annotation.

[TruthersLie]

Edx

I wasn't trying to nitpick.. but I can just hear da twoofs...

they weren't oxy torches, oxy torches don't do that. (which in some instances they are correct... they take longer to cut large steel beams)

Thermic lances are much faster for larger steel and cut directly through the beam.
The italian debunker (I can't remember his blog site... he is listed in the debunking information at the top of the page) has GREAT information on thermic lances being used, and with great video.

[Edx]

Grr, ok I wil add an annotation

[TruthersLie]

Hey Edx.

Here are the links for the italian debunker
http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/2007/12/molten-metal-pools-may-have-simple.html

http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/2007/04/real-world-tests-cut-through-steel.html

and this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzlb1nTnaKM

ETA
here is oxy torches from wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxy-fuel_welding_and_cutting
and
thermic lance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermic_lance

in this video it shows them using an oxy torch to light the thermic lance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EHK4-XVT1c

[Edx]

crap. well I put an annotation up. Thanks for point it out! :D

[TruthersLie]

No problem.

I have used them both (though the thermic lance was only 1x), which is why I mentioned it.

You can tell they are seperate, and both were used on site.

If it had the LONG Lance... it was a thermic lance, if it was with a 90 degree turn it was an oxy cutting torch.

[Edx]

Ok cool thanks for the information!

I have added some annotations but will probably make an updated version like I did with the Flight Manifests video.

[Hourglassmemory]

Lol once you show your videos to this community, you almost surely will have to make a new version.
But it always makes the videos much more informed and better supported.

[lightfire22000]

There was a Youtube poster who was well versed in Egyptian mythology, Yitzhak Khofeir(I'm not sure on the spelling) who made a great video in debunking the first part of Zeitgeist. I think the makers of Zeitgeist took some of their info from an episode of Star Trek.

[Hourglassmemory]

People constantly say "the makers of Zeitgeist"...when it was just one person who made the film. He's called Peter Joseph.

[Senenmut]

simple question. were thermite lances used at ground zero?

[Justin39640]

simple question. were thermite lances used at ground zero?

you mean a thermal lance?
or were they welding train tracks down there?

[Senenmut]

you mean a thermal lance?
or were they welding train tracks down there?

my bad, thermic lance.

"A thermal lance, thermic lance or burning bar is a tool that burns iron in an oxygen-rich environment (not thermite) to create very high temperatures for cutting. It consists of a long iron tube packed with iron rods, sometimes mixed with aluminum or magnesium rods to increase the heat output. One end of the tube is placed in a holder and oxygen is fed through the tube."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_lance

were they using them?

[ElMondoHummus]

Thermal lance steel cutting at Ground Zero? Who knows?
http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1413

I mean, it's not like there's any evidence or anything like that.
http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1414

I mean, having some sort of evidence would be nice, wouldn't it?

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1415


:rolleyes:

[TruthersLie]

simple question. were thermite lances used at ground zero?

simple answer.
Yes they were.


There are dozens of photos showing them in use. Look at the sources which were provided earlier in the thread in post 10.

[Senenmut]

simple answer.
Yes they were.


There are dozens of photos showing them in use. Look at the sources which were provided earlier in the thread in post 10.

ive never read where any worker stated that thermic lances were used at groundzero.

"Researcher Michael Berger checked with a number of steel-cutters and workers at Ground Zero. They reported that oxy-acetylene torches were used to cut the steel members."


http://www.911myths.com/html/traces_of_thermate_at_the_wtc.html

[funk de fino]

ive never read where any worker stated that thermic lances were used at groundzero.

"Researcher Michael Berger checked with a number of steel-cutters and workers at Ground Zero. They reported that oxy-acetylene torches were used to cut the steel members."


http://www.911myths.com/html/traces_of_thermate_at_the_wtc.html

That was a claim from the dishonest Jones. Forgive us if we do not take it too seriously.

[BigAl]

ive never read where any worker stated that thermic lances were used at groundzero.

So what? What significant point are you trying to make?

[Dave Rogers]

ive never read where any worker stated that thermic lances were used at groundzero.

Since you've no doubt seen the pictures, above, of workers using thermic lances at ground zero, then in the absence of an authoritative statement to the effect thet no thermic lances could possibly have been used at ground zero, it appears that the preponderance of evidence is in favour of thermic lances having been used at ground zero.

Can we therefore tentatively conclude that thermic lances were used at ground zero?

Dave

[Justin39640]

Since you've no doubt seen the pictures, above, of workers using thermic lances at ground zero, then in the absence of an authoritative statement to the effect thet no thermic lances could possibly have been used at ground zero, it appears that the preponderance of evidence is in favour of thermic lances having been used at ground zero.

Can we therefore tentatively conclude that thermic lances were used at ground zero?

Dave

i would think they would have used every tool available to them at the time

[A W Smith]

they use oxygen lances. Its not filled with iron or thermatic material. You preheat the steel with an acetylene torch to cherry red then use the oxy lance to burn through. The oxy lance uses/carries no flame. it uses the heat of the steel itself and oxygen to cut


http://www.welding-technology-machines.info/thermal-cutting-of-metals/oxygen-lance-cutting.htm
Oxygen Lance Cutting - It is an oxygen cutting process where in the severing or removal of metals is effected by oxygen supplied through a consumable lance and the preheat is obtained by other means.Oxygen lance is a length of steel pipe (3 to 6 mm internal diameter) used to convey oxygen to the point of cutting.
Purpose of Lance Cutting
It is used to cut heavy thick sections which are not possible to be cut by oxy acetylene flame cutting described earlier. Whereas an oxy acetylene torch can cut steel thickness up to 60 cm, the oxygen lance cutting can cut steel up to 240 cm.here is a thermic lance. note the blowback of thermic material and lack of an oxygen source on the back end of the lance, also note the assistant actually lighting the end of the thermic lance

7EHK4-XVT1c


an oxygen lance

XJlexccXJx0

[ElMondoHummus]

Oh. My mistake, then.

Well, regardless... whether by oxygen or thermal lance, the fact remains that those angle cuts were not made until after the collapses, and were done in order to aid cleanup operations. Not in order to demolish the towers to begin with. The fact that the tools used at the trade center were not what some of us originally thought does not change the fact that those cuts on the WTC columns have nothing to do with controlled demolition.

[A W Smith]

Oh. My mistake, then.

Well, regardless... whether by oxygen or thermal lance, the fact remains that those angle cuts were not made until after the collapses, and were done in order to aid cleanup operations. Not in order to demolish the towers to begin with. The fact that the tools used at the trade center were not what some of us originally thought does not change the fact that those cuts on the WTC columns have nothing to do with controlled demolition.


not saying they didn't use them. They could have. in fact that second photo could be one as i cannot see a regulator on the back end of the pipe. tough to tell without a video. You would see the shower of sparks. I would think most of the lances seen were oxygen as a thermic lance has a short life and cannot be turned off. not very safe in those conditions

[Senenmut]

not saying they didn't use them. They could have. in fact that second photo could be one as i cannot see a regulator on the back end of the pipe. tough to tell without a video. You would see the shower of sparks. I would think most of the lances seen were oxygen as a thermic lance has a short life and cannot be turned off. not very safe in those conditions

thanks for clearing that up. do you think the author of the vid should delete the reference to thermic lances in his vid?

how did they lift these beams out. i would assume the beam would be attached to a crane somehow while it was being cut so it wouldnt fall over. that would seem like a huge danger risk to let beams fall over?

[tsig]

thanks for clearing that up. do you think the author of the vid should delete the reference to thermic lances in his vid?

how did they lift these beams out. i would assume the beam would be attached to a crane somehow while it was being cut so it wouldnt fall over. that would seem like a huge danger risk to let beams fall over?

Sometimes you just let them fall. It was a demolition site.

[A W Smith]

thanks for clearing that up. do you think the author of the vid should delete the reference to thermic lances in his vid?

how did they lift these beams out. i would assume the beam would be attached to a crane somehow while it was being cut so it wouldnt fall over. that would seem like a huge danger risk to let beams fall over?


many of the cranes they used were so large they were out of view in most photos showing them cutting columns.

http://www.cranestodaymagazine.com/story.asp?storycode=2010840

[BigAl]

thanks for clearing that up. do you think the author of the vid should delete the reference to thermic lances in his vid?

how did they lift these beams out. i would assume the beam would be attached to a crane somehow while it was being cut so it wouldnt fall over. that would seem like a huge danger risk to let beams fall over?

The scale of WTC was so large that any close-up picture, such as your torch operator, leaves out everything that is going on around him, such as some of the largest cranes in the world, built on-site. One could lift 800 tons, another 500 tons, and several "smaller" cranes. (I saw Ground Zero.)

Source: 9 Months at Ground Zero (Highly recommended)
Page 53; here's a link.

http://snurl.com/pjjy0