Go to the Gym, lose fat, gain lead.

[Steelmage]

There is about up to 5 people dead in this tragedy, according to the police, the man killed himself but they are not sure. Okay, he goes into a room full of women, turns off the light, shots up the place; so if all his victims are women, then if he killed himself, wouldn't the police know that by identifing if the body is male or female?
Still he may have killed himself in another location. This is kind of ridiculous, it almost seems anywhere you go, you can get shot at.

Links:

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/20283352/detail.html

http://abcnews.go.com/us/story?id=8253125&page=1

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_636758.html

[Oliver]

As long there is no evidence that the dead man killed himself, the Police making a statement that they don't know that for a fact is a pretty common and wise step to avoid false reports.

And where did he get the 2 guns being found in the first place anyway?

[ponderingturtle]

Gun control bebate starting in

5.




4.




3.



2...

[Oliver]

Gun control debate starting in

5.




4.




3.



2...


Wrong, the Gun control debate started when the OP-guy used a gun in the first place. Where did he get it - obviously being a psycho?

[slingblade]

And where did he get the 2 guns being found in the first place anyway?

Are you serious?

[Careyp74]

I wonder if the guy had a membership? The workers said they didn't recognize him, did they just let him walk past the desk without checking ID? Not a common practice at the LA Fitness I used to go to.

It is possible also that one of the women who were shot killed him before she died (or someone that is alive doesn't want to admit it for some reason) so they are going to have to wait for forensics, before making a statement.

[Oliver]

Are you serious?


Yes, how do psychos get guns in the first place? - And I don't consider "Well, we have a second amendment allowing every psycho to own guns" as a serious answer.

[Fishstick]

I wonder if the guy had a membership? The workers said they didn't recognize him, did they just let him walk past the desk without checking ID? Not a common practice at the LA Fitness I used to go to.

It is possible also that one of the women who were shot killed him before she died (or someone that is alive doesn't want to admit it for some reason) so they are going to have to wait for forensics, before making a statement.

He certainly went to the gym on more than one occasion, and had the whole thing planned out almost a year beforehand. You can read his -very sad- diary going back to nov 2008 mirrored here: fishstick.eu/george.htm .

[Reeco]

See, there just aren't enough guns in America. If everyone in the gym class had been armed fewer innocent people would have died.

[Oliver]

See, there just aren't enough guns in America. If everyone in the gym class had been armed fewer innocent people would have died.


In a dimmed room? :boxedin:

[Soapy Sam]

If everyone in the gym class had been armed fewer innocent people would have died.

Unless they were armed with nukes.
For defensive purposes only.

[Drudgewire]

See, there just aren't enough guns in America. If everyone in the gym class had been armed fewer innocent people would have died.


This is why I only do squats with a cannon.

[Cleon]

This happened right by where I went to high school; my first job, when I was 16, was in the Great Southern Shopping Center, where the LA Fitness is. :(

No familiar names have appeared, but the shooter lived close to where I grew up. Freaky.

[Cicero]

Yes, how do psychos get guns in the first place? - And I don't consider "Well, we have a second amendment allowing every psycho to own guns" as a serious answer.

NRA / ILA Firearms Laws for
A synopsis of state laws on purchase,
possession and carrying of firearms.
Compiled by:
NRA-Institute for Legislative Action


"It is unlawful for anyone convicted of a felony, or
who is a drug addict, present or former mental patient,
ever committed for mental observation, or acquitted by
reason of insanity to own or possess any firearm. People
with certain misdemeanor convictions involving force or
violence may not possess or own any firearm within 10
years of the conviction. A person who has been adjudicated
as a juvenile offender or delinquent for any offense which
would be classified as a felony or misdemeanor involving
force or violence if committed by an adult may not own or
possess any firearm until age 30."

[Bikewer]

Most gun purchasers don't walk into the shop in the middle of a full-blown psychotic episode.
Since episodes of "rage killing" appear for the most part to be the end point of a rather gradually-increasing mental deterioration, it might be safe to assume that the individual obtained his weapons while he was still "normal".

As well, even with mandatory record-checking...Our current privacy laws are such that a police record check would show no evidence of mental illness unless the individual had been committed by court action and flagged as such.

[ponderingturtle]

Gun control bebate starting in

5.




4.




3.



2...

So do I win anything?

[Cicero]

Most gun purchasers don't walk into the shop in the middle of a full-blown psychotic episode.
Since episodes of "rage killing" appear for the most part to be the end point of a rather gradually-increasing mental deterioration, it might be safe to assume that the individual obtained his weapons while he was still "normal".

As well, even with mandatory record-checking...Our current privacy laws are such that a police record check would show no evidence of mental illness unless the individual had been committed by court action and flagged as such.

That seems to be changing on the state level.

New York State: S.8478.

"The new law will significantly improve the State's ability to submit mental health records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) index by amending the state law that mandated those records remain confidential."

Naturally, the shrinks don't dig it.


Mental Health Association In New York State (MHANY)

"The Legislature and Governor reached an agreement on gun legislation today largely focused on allowing creation of greater background checks for individuals with psychiatric disabilities to own or posses a firearm if they have meet certain criteria. The press release is listed below. We wholeheartedly agree that no one with a history of violence should have access to firearms. However, among the core groups of individuals who would be unable to own guns are individuals who had been involuntary committed in a hospital and have been a danger to themselves or others in the past twenty years. Many of those individuals have never had a history of violence."

http://www.mhanys.org/publications/mhupdate/update080623a.htm

[billydkid]

Okay, I saw the picture of this guy and read some of his blog stuff (or whatever it was). His big complaint was that he didn't have a girlfriend. In the picture I saw he looked like a good looking investment banker. I have to think that he gave off some vibe that drove women away or something, because he certainly looked "desirable" to me - and I don't mean this in a gay way. He is certainly better looking than me and I certainly have a not very typical personality (some who don't know me well would say "off putting". Those who do know me and understand me, get me, if you will, find me relatively charming, in my way. I think those who find me repulsive in here, just have not managed to understand me yet.) and somehow I have managed to have a half a dozen girlfriends and have had intimate encounters with at least a dozen different women - excluding hookers and my wife. So, go figure.

[Skeptic]

The word "lead" having two meanings, I was sure that this thread is about a politician who gained the lead in a political race by getting in shape...

[Steelmage]

More information on the situation:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=8255530&page=1


The Pennsylvania gunman who killed three women and injured nine others when he opened fire in a fitness center Wednesday before taking his own life made two "practice runs" just hours before the massacre, investigators said today.



Police also said the gunman, 48-year-old George Sodini, also made a phone call to an unidentified person and "had a conversation" before he slipped into a dance class at the LA Fitness club with four handguns and began shooting.

Police say he used two 9-millimeter automatic pistols and fired 36 shots inside the class of around 30 women. He then used a .45 caliber revolver to take his own life. An unused .32 caliber semi-automatic pistol was later found in Sodini's pocket, police said.



Police found two typed notes in Sodini's bag at the scene, each reflecting his extreme frustration and depression with women. He complained of "never having spent a weekend with a woman" -- a theme shared in chilling blog posts reportedly written by the shooter.



Sodini entered the gym using his membership card around 11 a.m. Tuesday and then left, Moffatt said. He came back around 7:40 p.m. and left again. He returned at 7:56 p.m. and began shooting.



His blog (on ABC news website):

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=8258001&page=1

[Psi Baba]

This happened right by where I went to high school; my first job, when I was 16, was in the Great Southern Shopping Center, where the LA Fitness is. :(

No familiar names have appeared, but the shooter lived close to where I grew up. Freaky.
Cleon, I didn't know you were from Pittsburgh. When did you move away? The building where this wacko worked is two blocks from my building and is also on the street where I catch my bus every day. He could have walked past me a hundred times for all I know.

[Skeptic]

You know, I almost feel sorry for him. When you read his blog you don't get the idea of a misanthropic evil man -- only of a really sad one. The blog just screams, "Clinical Depression" -- especially the parts where he convinces himself his entire life will be worthless and pointless and that there is no point to continue. "A life of quiet desperation", indeed.

The sad thing is, had he called a mental health help line, let alone visited a psychiatrist, it is likely he would still be alive and so would his victims.

[Cleon]

Cleon, I didn't know you were from Pittsburgh. When did you move away? The building where this wacko worked is two blocks from my building and is also on the street where I catch my bus every day. He could have walked past me a hundred times for all I know.

I graduated from Chartiers Valley in 95, then went off to Penn State (two years in Erie, the rest at University Park). Then in 2000 I moved here to Atlanta.

I used to go back up there a couple times a year, but my Dad moved out to Gettysburg a couple years ago, so I really don't get back to the old neighborhood anymore. :(

[Cicero]

You know, I almost feel sorry for him. When you read his blog you don't get the idea of a misanthropic evil man -- only of a really sad one. The blog just screams, "Clinical Depression" -- especially the parts where he convinces himself his entire life will be worthless and pointless and that there is no point to continue. "A life of quiet desperation", indeed.

The sad thing is, had he called a mental health help line, let alone visited a psychiatrist, it is likely he would still be alive and so would his victims.

Psychopaths do not seek help since they do not recognize that they are screwed up. Serial killer Kenneth Bianchi actually bamboozled shrinks into believing he suffered from multiple personality disorder. The only suffering taking place was that of his victims.

[geni]

Psychopaths do not seek help since they do not recognize that they are screwed up. Serial killer Kenneth Bianchi actually bamboozled shrinks into believing he suffered from multiple personality disorder. The only suffering taking place was that of his victims.

In this case however there is little evidence for the guy being a psychopaths.

[I Ratant]

What does blaming women for his problems with women indicate?

[Skeptic]

Probably the same that blaming the boss for getting fired or blaming one's spouse for the divorce. It shows he found it hard to see his own faults, not exactly a pathological condition per se.

[geni]

What does blaming women for his problems with women indicate?

That would be a matter for a trained psychologist. And he didn't consistently do so:


July 20, 2009:

....

I guess some of us were simply meant to walk a lonely path. I have slept alone for over 20 years. Last time I slept all night with a girlfriend it was 1982. Proof I am a total malfunction. Girls and women don't even give me a second look ANYWHERE. There is something BLATANTLY wrong with me that NO goddam person will tell me what it is. Every person just wants to be *********** nice and say nice things to me. Flattery. Oh yeah, I am sure you can get a date anytime. You look good, etc. Pussies.
Awwww, wait. I can just start being self-righteous and say I live a good, clean life. I am holy, that's all Rick Knapp stuff. Hear that you mother f*****: I Am Just Good!

[Cicero]

In this case however there is little evidence for the guy being a psychopaths.

The three women he killed won't give you an argument. However, the nine women he wounded would say you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

[geni]

The three women he killed won't give you an argument. However, the nine women he wounded would say you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

Psychopathy is a specific mental condition. On it's own killing people or even a large number of them doesn't make you a psychopath.

Unlawfuly killing a number of people during a single attack doesn't make you a psychopath.

Multiple attacks might point in that dirrection but that didn't happen in this case.

The attack attempts he was unable to go through with would not be consistent with the actions of a psychopath.

Major depressive disorder would seem more likely and is consistent with the unfortunate murder-suicide outcome.

[I Ratant]

There's a lot of things I can't do well or at all, but I don't hate the folks that do them.
It must be some manner of mental aberration that attributes one's failures to others, if not a full blown psychosis.
"Poor, poor pitiful me" isn't rare, but it's hardly worth going to that extreme.
I wonder had his blog actually been read by anyone what would have occurred?
Or would the reader drop it like a hot potato on seeing the sadness and mental situation there?
I think I'd take that bookmark off my list and do nothing.
Out back on the bike yesterday morning I encountered a scavenger who told me his entire life history, while we were admiring the stuff he'd picked up that someone had just tossed out in the desert. (3 possibly good cell phones!)
Sometimes talking to someone else helps them, and shows you there's people a lot worse off than you.
But you have to let them talk.
I could barely get a word in edgewise.
If you're the babbler, you might get frustrated at their failure to understand the seriousness of -your- problems, while they're prattling on about theirs. :)

[Cicero]

Psychopathy is a specific mental condition. On it's own killing people or even a large number of them doesn't make you a psychopath.

Unlawfuly killing a number of people during a single attack doesn't make you a psychopath.

Multiple attacks might point in that dirrection but that didn't happen in this case.

The attack attempts he was unable to go through with would not be consistent with the actions of a psychopath.

Major depressive disorder would seem more likely and is consistent with the unfortunate murder-suicide outcome.

I have yet to hear any pyschiatrist/psychologist associate George Sodini's actions with clinical depression. This article mentions Sodini as another example of psychopathic behavior.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/277162

[geni]

I have yet to hear any pyschiatrist/psychologist associate George Sodini's actions with clinical depression.

It's a bit hard to diagnose someone when they have just shot themselves dead. And I said depression seemed more likely not that the guy was suffering from it for certian. It would be a better fit than psychopathy though.

Some of the reports mention depression of course.


This article mentions Sodini as another example of psychopathic behavior.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/277162

It doesn't. It mentions his name as a hook then goes onto some largly unrelated research. Carol Forsloff is not in any case a psychologist. You note that all the cases listed at the end are serial killers (well Charles Manson may not be depending how you want to classify him) who killed over a period of time. Not single event murder-suicide.

[Ranb]

CNN is making sure we all know that this murderer and a few other killers bought gun accessaries from the same place. http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/07/gym.shooting.merchandise/index.html

I can see the company having to defend themselves in court in the near furture for doing nothing wrong. But I do not think I am going to win anything.

Ranb

[Holler Hoojer]

This has brought out many of the "same ole" responses, both from second amendment advocates and from gun control advocates. Several pundits here in Pittsburgh were even calling for the ladies in the class to have been armed (I have no idea where in those leotards they'd stash a gun.). This is our second multiple shooting this year and all we're doing is repeating empty platitudes over and over.

We genuinely need some dialogue in the US about gun rights, regulation, mental health rights, and mechanisms for detecting mental illness (I've no idea if Sodini was a sociopath, a psychopath, or just creepy, but he sure as hell was nuts). The present situation is just not working very well.

And, I have to point out that violence near this level goes on fairly regularly in places like Northview Heights - a pretty rough housing project - except spread over a whole weekend, not in two minutes. We have gotten so desensitized to sprees of violence that it only shocks when it's someplace incongrous like a health club.

A reasonable estimate might be that, at any given time, one out of twenty adults on the streets of Pittsburgh are carrying guns. Nobody has the slightest clue which of these folks are nuts and, realistically, no way to find out. We've got two rights in conflict and, in this instance, a dozen innocent people paid the price for that conflict.

[Steelmage]

This has brought out many of the "same ole" responses, both from second amendment advocates and from gun control advocates. Several pundits here in Pittsburgh were even calling for the ladies in the class to have been armed (I have no idea where in those leotards they'd stash a gun.).

Oh, I think you would know where if you think hard about it. ;)

[Cleon]

This has brought out many of the "same ole" responses, both from second amendment advocates and from gun control advocates. Several pundits here in Pittsburgh were even calling for the ladies in the class to have been armed (I have no idea where in those leotards they'd stash a gun.). This is our second multiple shooting this year and all we're doing is repeating empty platitudes over and over.


Lemme guess...Fred Hanzburger (sp) is still at it? Pittsburgh's very own Rush Limbaugh wannabe.

[Corsair 115]

The incident mentioned in the OP reminded me of the infamous École Polytechnique massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/École_Polytechnique_massacre) which took place in Montreal in 1989. There, the gunman, blaming "feminists" for his problems in life, specifically targetted women. He killed fourteen women, and wounded ten more women and four men, before killing himself.

The incident sparked a number of debates, most notably on the issue of violence against women, but also on gun control and police procedures.

I wonder if the U.S. incident will result in similar debates there...

[Ysidro]

This happened right by where I went to high school; my first job, when I was 16, was in the Great Southern Shopping Center, where the LA Fitness is. :(

No familiar names have appeared, but the shooter lived close to where I grew up. Freaky.

I'm getting really tired of multiple shootings happening in my hometown. :mad:

In other news, there's been some talk that he got his guns from the same online shop certain other killers got their firearms from. I'm trying to find confirmation but I'm coming up short at the moment. Don't even know how accurate that statment is anyway.

[Drudgewire]

CNN is making sure we all know that this murderer and a few other killers bought gun accessaries from the same place. http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/07/gym.shooting.merchandise/index.html

I can see the company having to defend themselves in court in the near furture for doing nothing wrong. But I do not think I am going to win anything.


Anyone who checks eBay or googles Glock accessories is going to find TopGlock.com pretty quick. Curse them and their reasonable prices and good customer service which will make them appealing to those who have the dangerous habit of looking at seller ratings. :rolleyes:

[Drudgewire]

Anyone who checks eBay or googles Glock accessories is going to find TopGlock.com pretty quick. Curse them and their reasonable prices and good customer service which will make them appealing to those who have the dangerous habit of looking at seller ratings. :rolleyes:


Oh, and even if it turns out they bought the guns from TG or other similar sites it isn't the website's responsibility to check out the buyer. When you make an online purpose, you go through a third party with a Federal Firearms License who is responsible for running the background check. The gun is then shipped to them.

Therefore it's irrelevant whether they all bought guns from GunsAmerica, TopGlock, Gunbroker or whoever... except for the purpose of sensationalism.

[Steelmage]

Oh, and even if it turns out they bought the guns from TG or other similar sites it isn't the website's responsibility to check out the buyer. When you make an online purpose, you go through a third party with a Federal Firearms License who is responsible for running the background check. The gun is then shipped to them.

Therefore it's irrelevant whether they all bought guns from GunsAmerica, TopGlock, Gunbroker or whoever... except for the purpose of sensationalism.

I take it that you have ordered from them before, so you bought firearms online.

[Drudgewire]

I take it that you have ordered from them before, so you bought firearms online.


No. I ordered a +2 magazine and a shirt from them. I'd be very hard-pressed to buy a gun online. To me it's like a car, you can't be sure it's for you until you've stepped behind the wheel.

But I have bid on a few from Gunbroker so I went through the process of finding an FFL in case I won the auction.

Hehe, I love the shirt (http://www.topglock.com/item/59981_Glock_Clothing_GLOCK_T-SHIRT.aspx). :D

[PogoPedant]

No. I ordered a +2 magazine and a shirt from them.

You can get +2 stuff online?!

*scampers off to get a Cloak of Protection Against Missiles +2*

[Drudgewire]

You can get +2 stuff online?!

*scampers off to get a Cloak of Protection Against Missiles +2*


:D

But for the record I meant one of these (http://www.topglock.com/category/1669-Glock_Magazine_Extensions.aspx). In addition to providing two extra rounds they make the grip on a subcompact much more comfortable.

[Psi Baba]

And, I have to point out that violence near this level goes on fairly regularly in places like Northview Heights - a pretty rough housing project - except spread over a whole weekend, not in two minutes.
I recently served on a jury for a shooting in Northview Heights. Gruesome. Guy had his eyes shot out and survived. This case didn't even make the news. There was no evidence to convict the accused, however. The tipstaff later told us that he (the accused) would probably be dead in a month. :eye-poppi

I'm getting really tired of multiple shootings happening in my hometown. :mad:

In other news, there's been some talk that he got his guns from the same online shop certain other killers got their firearms from. I'm trying to find confirmation but I'm coming up short at the moment. Don't even know how accurate that statment is anyway.
I hear ya. One thing about part of one of his blogs that struck me as odd seemed to indicate that he was trying to disguise what state he lived in. When he posted that he would need alcohol to go through with his plan, he said "I stopped at Shop N Save and bought a fifth of vodka and a small bottle of Jack Daniels." Not in Pennsylvania, buddy!

[Ranb]

I bought a rifle online; won an auction on gunbroker. But one has to be careful. I searched gunbroker for 1895 Nagant revolvers, found some in the local area, but the dealer would not let me buy in person. As I needed to examine the cylinder and barrel seal, this was a deal breaker.

Ranb

[Cicero]

I bought a rifle online; won an auction on gunbroker. But one has to be careful. I searched gunbroker for 1895 Nagant revolvers, found some in the local area, but the dealer would not let me buy in person. As I needed to examine the cylinder and barrel seal, this was a deal breaker.

Ranb

Looking for the only revolver that would work with a silencer?

[Drudgewire]

Looking for the only revolver that would work with a silencer?


We prefer "suppressor." http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/clint.gif

[Cicero]

We prefer "suppressor." http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/clint.gif

How about can? But who is "we?"

[Drudgewire]

But who is "we?"


Those of us who want one. :D

[Cicero]

Those of us who want one. :D

I prefer NFA items that cost more than the $200 tax.

[Drudgewire]

I prefer NFA items that cost more than the $200 tax.


Yeah, that's why I don't have one. :(

[Ranb]

Looking for the only revolver that would work with a silencer?

It caught my eye a few months after I first heard about them. I was able to fit my 9mm silencer to it, but it covers the sights.

I prefer to use the word silencer. It leaves no doubt as to what is being referred to as it is a legal term and has been used as a marketing gimmick for gun mufflers for over one hundred years. The word suppressor is also used to describe flash suppressors. I know some people get really upset when I use the word silencer, but they are usually the same ones who think they are illegal in the entire USA or that a license is required to own or make one.

Ranb

[Ranb]

I prefer NFA items that cost more than the $200 tax.

What title 2 items you own? All of the NFA items I own cost less than the $200 tax. I make my own silencers for about $20-60 in material. My time is priceless, but I prefer not to include it in the cost. :) I still feel like I am being ripped off everytime I write a $200 check to the US Treasury though.

Ranb

[Cicero]

What title 2 items you own? All of the NFA items I own cost less than the $200 tax. I make my own silencers for about $20-60 in material. My time is priceless, but I prefer not to include it in the cost. :) I still feel like I am being ripped off everytime I write a $200 check to the US Treasury though.

Ranb

Colt TSMG
S&W 76
Mini Tippman .30

[Ranb]

Colt Thompson SMG 1921?
Swedish K clone?
The only tippman I have heard of is the little 22lr beltfed and the paint ball guns.

Ranb

[Cicero]

Colt Thompson SMG 1921?
Swedish K clone?
The only tippman I have heard of is the little 22lr beltfed and the paint ball guns.

Ranb

Yes.
Yes.
Yes, the original Tippman belt fed in 22 and 22 magnum. They were made in semi and full auto 1/2 scale models of the 1917, 1919 and Ma Deuce Brownings.

[Ranb]

What is the longest belt you put through it without a malfunction? When you said .30, you meant yours is a 22lr version of the 1917 water cooled or the 1919 air cooled?

Ranb

[Cicero]

What is the longest belt you put through it without a malfunction? When you said .30, you meant yours is a 22lr version of the 1917 water cooled or the 1919 air cooled?

Ranb

100 rds. 1919. I'm not trying to melt the barrel. Mine is an early example of Dennis Tippman's creations from Fort Wayne, Indiana. It isn't one of the much later Lakeside productions that moved from Wisconsin to Arkansas.