Atheists: What if you're wrong (not preaching, just hypothetical)

[X]

Mostly, I am making this thread because I think it will generate some interesting responses.

Let us assume, for the purposes of this thread, that the Christian god actually does exist.

Specifically, the more liberal interpretation.
That is, Jesus was a teacher and godly man, that being a good person is what counts, and that worshipping god is important, but not necessary for getting into heaven.

What would you say, as an atheist, upon arriving at the Pearly Gates (preferably backwards and on fire in a Koenigsegg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koenigsegg_CCX))?
(can you believe I actually spelled that right the first time around? I'm impressed with myself)



Again, for the sake of argument and interesting responses, just assume the liberal interpretation of Christianity.

[Monketey Ghost]

I'd say, "I'm glad this isn't the other place. I've always wanted to meet you. Do you answer questions?"

[Ryokan]

I think I would go with the classic. "Why didn't you give us more evidence?"

[Fiona]

Well I am a bit socially awkward so I think I would go with "'I've heard a lot about you"

[KingMerv00]

Looks like I got it wrong but I still think my position was the most reasonable one considering the circumstances. Did I miss any good clues to your existence?

*God points out the best clues*

Whoops! My mistake!

[sasquatchx]

How about "Crap, you are reeeeally big, aren't you."

[Withnail]

I thought you'd be taller.

[gnome]

"Well, I'm startled to find I was mistaken, but it's good news I'm not automatically screwed for my beliefs. So, gimme the score, did I make the list? If I didn't, what are my options? Now that I know that it's not just a story someone made up to control people politically, in fact I'm extremely grateful for Jesus's sacrifice. Would you really say that's an unreasonable position?"

[Sun Countess]

I'd also have a lot of questions, not just about why god chose to deliver his message in the way he chose through the people that he chose, but what the heck he was thinking across most of the old testament. Face it; god was a major dick. I would also wonder about some of the logistics of life in the afterlife:

Can I see what's happening on earth?
How long does it feel like you're waiting for your children to die so they can join you?
Do we eat? Can we have sex?
Do I have to stay married to my same husband?
Can I talk to some of the famous people up here or is the line 150,000,000 long?
Is there a special landing for the tens of thousands of innocent children who die of starvation and disease every day?
Can we have pets?
Can we visit some of the other galaxies to see other life, if you really made the entire universe just for us?
Do I have to worship you now?
Are women equal to men?
Where did you come from?

And lots more.....

[Yoink]

Yeah, I think, after the initial surprise, my first questions would be along the "what the hell was the point of all that then"? I mean, why all the pain and suffering and misery and the complete lack of valid evidence for God's existence or the existence of the afterlife etc? I'd be happy to suddenly discover I got into the bonus-round, certainly, but pissed off that God had made us all suffer through mortal existence for no reason.

That said, I don't see why believers shouldn't play this game too. I mean, I assume the first thing they'd say when they got to the Pearly Gates was "yes, yes, just as I expected" but I'm more wondering what they think they do next? What do people imagine life in heaven to consist of, and what do they think the subjective experience of that life will be like?

I ask because there are usually two versions of heavenly existence offered to us. In one of them, heaven is essentially an endless summer camp. We walk through the doors of the pearly gates and then we go off and find all our loved ones and hang out with them and then we go and find Famous People of History and hang with them for a bit and so on. O.K., then what? I mean, after you've had a million years of conversation with every single person in heaven (literally), aren't you bored rigid? I mean, if you're not bored rigid by that point ("Oh god, Napoleon's telling us about that time at Austerlitz again!") you'd have to be constructed very differently from the way you are now, wouldn't you? In that case, what's the continuity of "self" from world to heaven? If you aren't really "you" anymore in heaven, in what sense is heaven a reward for you? Isn't it more that someone rather similar to you gets to lead a heavenly life as a reward for the life you lead down here?

This strikes me as an even more pressing problem in the other main version of heavenly existence that one encounters, which is the more ineffable idea of bathing in God's love and singing his praises. Again, the mind that one can imagine not going crazy after a few years (let alone millions upon millions upon millions of years) of singing "holy holy holy, yes you're very very very holy, gosh you're the holiest, I mean you're just the best, the toppingest holiest, holy thing that ever was etc. etc. ad infinitum" is simply not imaginable as a version of the self as we now experience it.

So, I guess along with my "what the **** was the point of all that" question would be a follow up: "and is there any way out of this place once I start to go crazy with boredom"?

[Achán hiNidráne]

"Can I speak with your manager, please? I have some complaints about how this sorry excuse for a universe is being run."

[JenseitsDavon]

"What, really? Um . . . . ok. So where am I headed? All right, that kind of sucks, but ok. By the way, your PR department REALLY sucks. Bit of a failure there, mate. And what's with all the weird rules? I mean, not mixing fabrics? How's that a moral issue again? And why didn't you just bloody TELL me what the deal is yourself, huh?"

*Cue trapdoor*

"BECAUSE."

[Yeah_Right]

I'd go, whoops!

[Ryokan]

There's one thing I'd need to know to try to set myself in the frame of mind I would be in.

Does he look like he does in the Chick tracts?

[Monketey Ghost]

Would you like some M&M's? I've got some. Hold out your hand.

[JimBenArm]

"Yeah. Uhm. Well, boy is my face red! You know all those things I said were just a joke, right? Well, of course you do, you know everything. So, glad to meet you and all, and I'm so happy you really do exist. No hard feelings, right? Right?" >turns and runs<

[Eyeron]

Considering I'm an atheist, I know where I'm going because only proper Christians who believe and worship God get to go to heaven.

Which means that almost 6 billion people will be going to hell.

And maybe only a few million Christians will be in heaven.

And it don't matter if you're a person who's saved hundreds or thousands of lives and wouldn't hurt a fly. Only proper Christians, whatever that means, get to go to heaven and nobody else need apply.

[Piggy]

What would you say, as an atheist, upon arriving at the Pearly Gates

Wow. Nice place. Hey, I'm really glad about the whole final judgment thing where even people who denied Jesus get a second chance, cause, you know what... I'd say I'm pretty convinced at this point.

[Nosi]

I believe there is 'something' other than us that perhaps created us. I do not believe that it is something we can as yet comprehend. God? Aliens? Over-soul perhaps? Gods & Goddesses? Or pure mathematics, which to some is a deity of it's own right. To all these, there is at least one believer.

The Human Animal is as yet a small, very primitive being in a very big often scary universe. As said animal evolves, the belief system will also evolve, perhaps to reach that which is the Other. Jesus knew this, as a further evolved Human if you will, and spoke in a language his fellow Earth dwellers could comprehend.

At his time, we were past worshiping fire; we could make it, yet before IVF. Thus, the 'virgin birth' which could possibly have been explained by advanced form of IVF, matter transportation, and a native egg from Mother Mary... a theory pulled out of Science Fiction admittedly. Or, it could have been as those who believe claim, a simple miracle.

Judea Christian belief is just that, belief. It stands along side other noble beliefs regarding that which is outside our Understanding. Atheists are those who do not believe in a sentient rule-maker running their lives. Their belief system is not of a piece, there are almost as many different beliefs or theories about why things are as there are Atheists who believe them. The same goes for Agnostics and every other stripe of Human being.

Personally, I don't believe I will see pearly gates at my death. Nor do I believe I will meet a man with a long white beard. I am a believer in the Over-soul. Over-souls are the super-soul. Like a beehive, it holds many related souls within like sister bees. The souls/bees incarnate. When a soul dies, it returns home to regenerate. When two souls from the same over-soul meet, they are soul mates.

My two cents.

[Magyar]

Let us assume, for the purposes of this thread, that the Christian god actually does exist.


What would you say, as an atheist, upon arriving at the Pearly Gates

You've been served! You are being sued, by BILLIONS of people for allowing vicious psychopaths to mutilate, murder, torture and rape in your name, for malpractice, because you SUCK at your job.

[Piggy]

You've been served! You are being sued, by BILLIONS of people for allowing vicious psychopaths to mutilate, murder, torture and rape in your name, for malpractice, because you SUCK at your job.

<holds elevator door for Magyar>

[Hokulele]

What would you say, as an atheist, upon arriving at the Pearly Gates (preferably backwards and on fire in a Koenigsegg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koenigsegg_CCX))?


Cool!

First round is on me. :)



(You see, it really doesn't bother me to learn that I have been wrong about something. It happens all the time.)

[NobbyNobbs]

"ok, wtf is the deal with the platypus?"

[Akhenaten]

Thanks for keeping the seat warm, Dude. You can toddle off now and grab a latte and some doughnuts if you like.

[PixyMisa]

I'd say g'day. ;)

[bjornart]

Huh. For an hallucination brought on by hypoxia this is mighty convincing.

[Safe-Keeper]

And what's with all the weird rules? I mean, not mixing fabrics? How's that a moral issue again?That is a weird rule. How did it come about?

[RoboTimbo]

"Did you really make bananas like that on purpose?"

[Fiona]

That is a weird rule. How did it come about?


I am so glad you asked that question: I have had an entertaining half hour culminating in this:

http://www.opentheword.org/bible-verified/213-dont-mix-wool-with-linen

It has been proven scientifically that "wool, when combined with linen, increases its power of passing off the electricity from the body. In hot climates, it brings on malignant fevers and exhausts the strength; and when passing off from the body, it meets with the heated air, the skin inflames and excoriates like a blister." (1)

This is because wool readily sheds electrons. Anyone who has ever walked across a carpet with wool socks and touched a door knob has experienced this phenomenon. However, linen will not accept the electrons that are handed to it by the wool, its molecules push the electrons away. The wool then tries to hand them back and the cycle continues and begins to amplify itself.

As this cycle continues it draws electricity out of your body in order to feed itself. The more electricity it draws, the weaker your body becomes. Our bodies are delicate precision creations that run on electricity. If you upset that balance you are in trouble.

If you were to wear a garment mixed with linen and wool in a hot climate, the first thing you would notice is an increasing tiredness as your energy gets zapped, then your internal organs would begin to fail as the electricity needed to run their various functions is depleted.

So there you have it: it is a health measure !

[Twiler]

'Who are you?'

'Who?'

'No, seriously, who?'

'No, I never read that.'

'You know I'm lying because you're omniscient? That's ridiculous. Why would I lie?'

'I'm a jackass? But that would imply an imperfect creator, wouldn't it?'

[Rrose Selavy]

I'd say - didn't someone already just ask that question ? :
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=150121

[I Ratant]

My response would be violate the rules here.
But somewhere along the lines of:
"You ***************, ***********, ****** it ****** badly!"

[bokonon]

after you've had a million years of conversation with every single person in heaven (literally), aren't you bored rigid? I mean, if you're not bored rigid by that point ("Oh god, Napoleon's telling us about that time at Austerlitz again!") you'd have to be constructed very differently from the way you are now, wouldn't you?
Probably not.

I don't think eternal life is plausible, but if it did turn out to be true, and I was exactly the kind of being I am now, I don't think it would be boring after the first hundred billion years.

The reason? I forget stuff. I can entertain myself by going through photos that are mere decades old, and while they're not exactly "new," they're refreshing memories that haven't been part of my consciousness for years.

I have hundreds of books on my own bookshelves that I either haven't read, or could read again and find that at least half of the material in them seemed new and fresh. And I'm not even a hundred years old.

With the limited capacity of the human mind, I think I could be quite happy living forever with a thousand-year window of memory. Assuming I'd be able to remember that far back...

[catbasket]

":rule10!"

[Third Eye Open]

Since heaven is usually described to me as "worshiping god", I think I'd respectfully decline. Spending eternity stuck in one place would be bad enough, doing it while required to praise and serve someone, hell no. Oblivion for me, please.

[brodski]

I would get sent to hell, deny that i was really in hell, claiming it to be all some hallucination, make Friends with Satan and a Psychotic chairman of a privatised waterbaord and a daemon called Garry and have a series of wacky and slightly satirical adventures.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Harry's_Game

[shandyjan]

I love this answer from a previous thread, bears repeating :)

pgwenthold
Philosopher


A religious person would say that they took a chance. They believed in one god and if they were wrong then they're no worse off than an atheist. But if they're right then they win big.
Then again, maybe God doesn't reward gamblers? Or people who abandon the gifts of logic and reason "just to be on the safe side"? Maybe I die and God says, "Congratulations, you passed the test. You used the brains I gave you the right way. Personally, I thought it was obvious that it was all nonsense, but those believers, nothing you could do could change their blinkin minds."

Even if there IS a God, there is no reason to think that he would reward "faith." Or be anything like the God described in the bible.

Finally, to add my usual explanation: If God exists, he created me as a thinking being and gave me the gift of reason and rational thought. Meanwhile, he did not provide any evidence for his existence, which means that in order to believe in him, I would have to not use my god-given gift and resort to faith. However, not using my god-given gift would be an affront to my creator, and would be a sin. Thus, I conclude (and no one has yet challenged this) that, if God exists, it would be a sin for me to believe in him.

[I Ratant]

I love this answer from a previous thread, bears repeating :)

pgwenthold
Philosopher

...
But if they're right then they win big.
...
.
Win what big?
The requirement to praise to the heavens for eternity an egotistic monster that might need more praise as time passes?
The guy IS crazy, you know.

[shandyjan]

Sorry...IIRC yhe win big bit was what he was responding to....... the rest was his take on it. That part I enjoyed. Anyway the point isnt to argue about if they win or...but what if youre wrong?.

[Ladewig]

Would you like some M&M's? I've got some. Hold out your hand.

I haven't heard that joke in 30 years.

[vitamin]

"Can you point a guy to the can? I've got to take a nasty growler"

[Meadmaker]

I would say, "About those things I said on JREF....."

As a more serious answer, I would fall back on something I learned from Buddhist teachings. Your mind is finite. You cannot understand even the concept of an infinite being. Therefore, you cannot even figure out what such a being wants. Just because he tells you to worship him, does he really want that? So, no matter what you do, there isn't any "good" answer. Such a being will do what it wants to, and there's no way for you to figure out what that is.

On a different, but still serious, note, we often wonder what we will do in situations we haven't encountered, and we often make up answers of the form, "I would...." In reality, when dealing with situations that are unique and challenging, we don't know what we will do until we are in them. When the chips are down, how will we really react? No one knows until reality confronts them.

That is a weird rule. How did it come about?

I've heard two versions. Maimonides, revered Jewish writer that he is, says that pagan priests wore such garments, and so they were forbidden to Jews. That's how some of the other weird rules came about, so it seems reasonable speculation, but it's still speculation. Maimonides wrote many centuries after the events in question, so it's unlikely he had access to authoritative sources.

The other version I've heard is that somewhere it was mentioned that certain garments worn by one sort of people were to be made of wool, and that garments worn by a different sort of people were to be made of linen, and so mixing the two would be a sort of "uniform violation". (i.e. If a priest were supposed to wear linen, and the non-priest was supposed to wear wool, then who the heck is that guy wearing linen and wool? It's too confusing. Best just to stone him to death and then it won't matter.)

[Phase Inverter]

That is a weird rule. How did it come about?

I've heard two versions. Maimonides, revered Jewish writer that he is, says that pagan priests wore such garments, and so they were forbidden to Jews. That's how some of the other weird rules came about, so it seems reasonable speculation, but it's still speculation. Maimonides wrote many centuries after the events in question, so it's unlikely he had access to authoritative sources.

The other version I've heard is that somewhere it was mentioned that certain garments worn by one sort of people were to be made of wool, and that garments worn by a different sort of people were to be made of linen, and so mixing the two would be a sort of "uniform violation".


I always thought it was a metaphor for keeping the Jewish bloodline pure and not mixing with other tribes. There are several: no mixed fiber clothing, no planting two different crops in the same field, no yoking an ox and an ass together. There are probably more but I can't think of any right now.

[Robin]

What would you say, as an atheist, upon arriving at the Pearly Gates (preferably backwards and on fire in a Koenigsegg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koenigsegg_CCX))?
Say I hope I wasn't out of line with that "doesn't exist" crack.

[alfster]

'Hi, yes, um, nice place you've got here. Er, just so I know what grisly fate awaits me as a 'non-believer'...which god are you exactly?...there's quite a list you know'

...

'You're the One-True God? Ah, I bet that's what they all say.'

[I Ratant]

Sorry...IIRC yhe win big bit was what he was responding to....... the rest was his take on it. That part I enjoyed. Anyway the point isnt to argue about if they win or...but what if youre wrong?.
.
The line ahead of me yelling at the big guy with the ego problem and the bad PR is gonna be a long one.
It might take all eternity to get to me for my turn at yelling at the fool.

[RandFan]

What would you say, as an atheist, upon arriving at the Pearly Gates (preferably backwards and on fire in a Koenigsegg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koenigsegg_CCX))?
(can you believe I actually spelled that right the first time around? I'm impressed with myself).Why did you do such a lousy job?

[RandFan]

I'm sick and tired of all this mess
You foolin' around
And you haven't done nothing!

....And... you got it... rainin'
It's not a shower is it?
Ok Lord me and you right
'Cause I knew it all the time


--Bill Cosby - Noah's Ark

[Beerina]

What would you say, as an atheist, upon arriving at the Pearly Gates (preferably backwards and on fire in a Koenigsegg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koenigsegg_CCX))?
(can you believe I actually spelled that right the first time around? I'm impressed with myself)



Again, for the sake of argument and interesting responses, just assume the liberal interpretation of Christianity.





"Why did you let stuff like this happen wholesale, ass? (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/08/07/iraq.kidnapped.boy/index.html)"

[Beerina]

Oh, sorry, didn't realized the thread had reached the singing, mocking part so quickly. :o

[boloboffin]

The :rule10 watches while my scoutmaster and my father molests me? I spend my first decades of life trying to atone for being gay, something he made me? There had better be a few angels between me and the deity.

[The_Fire]

"Admit it: Earth was designed to be the insanity asylum of the universe, right? Otherwise you ********** up royally. "

[gentlehorse]

What would you say, as an atheist, upon arriving at the Pearly Gates

What's the deal with ticks?

[shandyjan]

.
The line ahead of me yelling at the big guy with the ego problem and the bad PR is gonna be a long one.
It might take all eternity to get to me for my turn at yelling at the fool.

lol, well patience is a virtue, so they say :)

[JoeTheJuggler]

Mostly, I am making this thread because I think it will generate some interesting responses.

Let us assume, for the purposes of this thread, that the Christian god actually does exist.
This is simply Pascal's Wager. The flaw in its approach is that of false dichotomy (either there is no god or there is your one specific god and not any others including a god who intended you use the brain it gave you to conclude that it doesn't exist).



What would you say, as an atheist, upon arriving at the Pearly Gates
I know 100% for sure that when I die my speech apparatus (language centers in the brain, the vocal cords, mouth, tongue, etc.) will cease to function. Your question is meaningless unless you assume "say" to mean something very very different than what it conventionally means.

ETA: The meaningless of the question isn't limited to the word "say" either. "You" is just as meaningless. So is "at". So I think you're making a number of assumptions that I refuse to accept before I could possibly respond to this "hypothetical". So, it's a meaningless question. It is just as meaningless as asking, "If squares only had 3 sides how many corners would they have?"

[Nosi]

"Can you point a guy to the can? I've got to take a nasty growler"

Presumably, such unpleasantnesses of mortality are no longer a factor once you hit 'afterlife'.
:dl:

[X]

I'd say - didn't someone already just ask that question ? :
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=150121



No.

So, to the religious folk who frequent this forum and believe atheists and agnostics will go to hell once they die:

What if you're wrong? What will you say to the real god when you face him/her/it in the after-life?


Relevant part highlighted.






Sun Countess: Why would a 150,000,000 person line matter if you had eternity?


For my part, I'd have two questions (after I finished screaming):

1) Did you (god/goddess/???) create everything to appear old, did you guide things, or did you just wait to see what happened?

2) Where's dinner?

[fuelair]

Problem of evil. I show up at a pearly gate, I am reaching for a weapon to off the murderous thug, slowly - a cut for every ruined life, every abused child, every tortured innocent.

Note, I do not believe any of us will or I would be trying to get to it now.

[Beerina]

Is it too late to change my answer? :)


I mean :mad:

[Robert Oz]

Far out! And I thought Randi's beard was cool.