Beliefs vs Behaviour

[UndercoverElephant]

What matters?

If we are going to judge, then what matter most - what a person believes, or how they behave?

I am asking this because of Lifegazer, of course. The genius philosopher among us tells me that all that matters for the solution to the worlds problems is that everybody believes that all is one and all is God. He tells us that it does not matter if we behave badly, indeed it is better that he is an arrogant w*****r, despised by the world, because then nobody will worship him.

Personally, I DO NOT CARE what people choose to believe, provided they do not try to impose their beliefs on me.

Personally, all I care about is the way people BEHAVE. The world will only get better when more people BEHAVE better. If they behave towards others with love, respect and humility then I what they choose to believe is entirely up to them. If they behave like Lifegazer, i.e. like an arrogant, egotistical 3-year-old, then I think this matters a great deal. What he actually BELIEVES is of no relevance to me.

So which matters most? Belief? or Behaviour?

[The Don]

I don't really mind either too much. I don't mind how irrational someone's belief system is - I'm sure they consider mine to be just as ridiculous. I don't even mind how ropey their reasoning is they've used to get to their belief system - I'm sure my reasoning looks just as strange to them.

I don't mind if they shout, scream insult whatever, all this is fine

the one thing THAT ANNOYS ME,

THAT REALLY, REALLY ANNOYS ME !!

is when they don't even seem able to state succinctly their beliefs and then when they go though theargument they dissemble.


I'm happy to argue until I'm blue in the face with someone who
- States a point of view
- Is consistent or at least acknowledges when they change postion
- Addresses direct points directly

Take Shanek, clearly loopy, often rude but his arguments are consistent, clearly stated, well (though in my case ineffectively) argued

[whitefork]

Talk is cheap. Sometimes it has no value. Actions have consequences.

It does appear that you do care what lifegazer says he believes, since you're clearly offended by it, but perhaps I put too fine a point on it.

[UndercoverElephant]

Originally posted by Kullervo
Talk is cheap. Sometimes it has no value. Actions have consequences.

It does appear that you do care what lifegazer says he believes, since you're clearly offended by it, but perhaps I put too fine a point on it.

I truly do not care what he believes. I care if there is a dangerous gap between what he claims to believe and the way he behaves.

In this world, the freedom to believe whatever you want to believe is paramount. Anything else is attempted mind-control. But there cannot be freedom to behave however you want to behave, because that is called anarchy.

[UndercoverElephant]

I suppose it is just a simple observation that other peoples beliefs do not affect the quality of my own life, but other peoples behaviour does affect the quality of my life.

If Lifegazer treated other people with respect, rather than assuming everybody was stupider than he, then I would not mind what he says. What I cannot stomach is a person who preaches about "Unity" all the time, but behaves as if HE is the only thing on the planet that matters. He is displaying the exact sort of BEHAVIOUR that has caused all the worlds problems -> arrogance, selfishness, egotism, wanton ignorance.

I suppose the bottom line is that if you are going to preach about "Unity" you behaviour must be appropriate for a person who chooses to preach this message.

Lifegazer behaves in the opposite manner to the way he is telling everybody else to behave.

[lifegazer]

Originally posted by JustGeoff
He tells us that it does not matter if we behave badly

That's a lie.
Otherwise, proceed with your insults.

[UndercoverElephant]

Originally posted by lifegazer

That's a lie.
Otherwise, proceed with your insults.

OK Lifegazer I will correct myself.

You tell us it does matter if WE behave badly, but it doesn't matter if YOU behave badly, because, as a prophet, you need to ensure that nobody will worship you.

Is that correct?

I call that massive hypocrisy in the name of God. And it is precisely this that has caused so much problem in the past :

"DO AS WE SAY, NOT AS WE DO" is the primary mistake of so many religious leaders of the past, and you are doing exactly the same thing. When asked to justify this you come up with EXCUSES so lame they defy belief.

[Disbeliever]

I personally choose behavior, because I believe as few things as possible.

If you'd like to know why, click on this link:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/beliefs.htm

If not, I accept your behavior. :D

[hammegk]

I thought this had been answered:

Understanding
Purpose
Speech
Conduct
Vocation
Effort
Mindfulness
Meditation

Even speech is a valued commodity, contingent of course on ones' understanding and purpose leading to the ongoing vocation & effort. Observance & meditation is the feedback device.

Doing the same things expecting different results is insanity.


Unfortunately -- if it can be taught, it is not the path -- also seems to be True.

[jimlintott]

Judge people by what they do, not what they say they believe.

This has been a personal mantra of mine for probably twenty years now. It serves me well.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by hammegk



Doing the same things expecting different results is insanity.




I like that... It reminds me of..

" If you keep finding the expected results, you might be wasting a lot of time..."

[lifegazer]

We've already done this in the flamewar forum, Geoff. All that happens is that you end up swearing and ranting like a demented lunatic. I'm getting bored of it.
I have presented original and sensible arguments within these forums. If you think those arguments are rubbish then refute them. But how many times do you want these members to hear you call me "a tosser"?
It's bordering on pathetic Geoffrey. And if you think I'm going to participate in two threads with the same content, then you're mistaken.

[Zero]

Sometimes, I like to kick dogs...not for teh pleasure of the injury to the dog, but for the comfort I get, knowing that no one will worship me if I keep punting terriers across the room. :D

Generally, if someone believes something strongly, the don't feel the need to be rude in convincing other people they are right. The ones who are always arguing(especially when they are obviously lacking logical support for their beliefs) are the ones who are looking for attention and validation for their nonsense.

[wollery]

Originally posted by lifegazer
I have presented original and sensible arguments within these forums. If you think those arguments are rubbish then refute them. But how many times do you want these members to hear you call me "a tosser"?
It's bordering on pathetic Geoffrey. And if you think I'm going to participate in two threads with the same content, then you're mistaken.

Original? No
Sensible? Not even close!
Refute your arguments? He has. several of us have, but you keep altering your stance (or wording) or just tell us that we haven't a clue what we're talking about. If, when your arguments are refuted and your logic shown to be flawed you just say "But I'm right" then what's the point?

And now getting back to the topic of the thread (which isn't the same as the other thread) behaviour is far more important. I personally don't care two hoots what anyone believes provided that they don't use those beliefs to justify discrimination or violence.

A simple philosophy - Do as you would be done by.
Covers all eventualities (unless of course you're a masochist!) :D

[c4ts]

Behavior. Someone can behave unjustly while believing he is doing the right thing. Hitler, for example, did just that.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by JustGeoff

If we are going to judge, then what matter most - what a person believes, or how they behave? [/B]The worth of a person should determined by that person's actions.

A person, through no fault of their own, can be tricked into believing something that is not true and further could be given no reason to think that it is not true. How then can we judge someone for something that is not of their own doing? Their behavior, on the other hand (barring drugs or some sort of blow to the head), is entirely the responsibility of that person.

If we are to judge the worth of a person, it should be based on their actions.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by JustGeoff
What matters?

If we are going to judge, then what matter most - what a person believes, or how they behave?

I am asking this because of Lifegazer, of course. The genius philosopher among us tells me that all that matters for the solution to the worlds problems is that everybody believes that all is one and all is God. He tells us that it does not matter if we behave badly, indeed it is better that he is an arrogant w*****r, despised by the world, because then nobody will worship him.

Personally, I DO NOT CARE what people choose to believe, provided they do not try to impose their beliefs on me.

Personally, all I care about is the way people BEHAVE. The world will only get better when more people BEHAVE better. If they behave towards others with love, respect and humility then I what they choose to believe is entirely up to them. If they behave like Lifegazer, i.e. like an arrogant, egotistical 3-year-old, then I think this matters a great deal. What he actually BELIEVES is of no relevance to me.

So which matters most? Belief? or Behaviour?

I'm in complete agreement with you. What a person believes is irrelevent, but how they behave is what affects the world (and me) the most.

[lifegazer]

Originally posted by Upchurch
A person, through no fault of their own, can be tricked into believing something that is not true and further could be given no reason to think that it is not true.

Such that there is an external realm?

Their behavior, on the other hand (barring drugs or some sort of blow to the head), is entirely the responsibility of that person.

All you need to do to give any sort of substance to this statement, is prove that a human being has absolute free will.

[Disbeliever]

A man is an end to himself; no genes nor instinct nor any other factor will solely determine his fate.

Or would you like to fight against Objectivism, too?

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by lifegazer

Such that there is an external realm?

Or that there isn't and that the world will unite because all is god, same sword cuts both ways. yes, it slices and dices.

All you need to do to give any sort of substance to this statement, is prove that a human being has absolute free will.

All you need to do is prove that they don't and then I can go back to flaming god for the existance of evil!

:P