Joe Biden gives firm answer to annoying "twoofer".

[Ragnarok]

skip to 3.28 approx. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW9sesBESSs)

here's what he was handed (pdf) (http://www.bentham-open.org/images/download.gif)

So the question is, not how did this stuff get into the tower's dust, but, does this product they are suggesting actually exist and what would its properties and capabilities be if it does?

[Dave Rogers]

skip to 3.28 approx. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW9sesBESSs)

here's what he was handed (pdf) (http://www.bentham-open.org/images/download.gif)

So the question is, not how did this stuff get into the tower's dust, but, does this product they are suggesting actually exist and what would its properties and capabilities be if it does?

Your link goes to a "Download" icon.

If you're talking about nanothermite, it probably does exist but nobody seems too certain. It's been calculated that the amount extrapolated from Harrit et al's findings would have been sufficient, given ideal conditions, to raise the temperature of the beams it was applied to by about 4ºC. Yes, four. And finally, its maximum possible energy density would be less than was measured by Harrit et al on a sample consisting partly of other material, demonstrating beyond a shadow of doubt that what Harrit et al found cannot possibly be nanothermite.

For more information, there are at least three recent threads focusing specifically on nanothermite and Harrit et al's analysis.

Dave

[dtugg]

I'm surprised they let twoofer whackjobs get that close to him.

[Ragnarok]

Your link goes to a "Download" icon.

Dave

I'll try again. (http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM)

[Dave Rogers]

I'll try again. (http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM)

OK. See my earlier response. So summarise, it can't possibly be what they say it is, and if it were, it couldn't possibly have been responsible for the collapse of the towers.

Dave

[Blender Head]

So is it still conventional explosives planted in key locations or is it unconventional nano-therm*te planted in key locations?

:confused:

[beachnut]

skip to 3.28 approx. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW9sesBESSs)

here's what he was handed (pdf) (http://www.bentham-open.org/images/download.gif)

So the question is, not how did this stuff get into the tower's dust, but, does this product they are suggesting actually exist and what would its properties and capabilities be if it does?
A nut case paper in a vanity journal is going to get the VP to do what? Laugh at the idiots who believe the lies? You have exposed the the gullibility of a few people unable to think for themselves. Good job

[Ragnarok]

I suppose he has just brainwashed the other people who are involved with this paper, or are they just "twoofer dupes"?

[dtugg]

I suppose he has just brainwashed the other people who are involved with this paper, or are they just "twoofer dupes"?

They are all crazy.

[Ragnarok]

beachnut's post didn't actually contain any grammatical errors, so your off-topic cheapshot was a bit misguided.

Hey, there was only two lines. Don't make me fetch examples of his annoying gibberish!

[johnny karate]

I suppose he has just brainwashed the other people who are involved with this paper, or are they just "twoofer dupes"?

If you're going to start playing the numbers game, you might want to start a head count of the people who haven't bought into this nanothermite nonsense.

[~enigma~]

I suppose he has just brainwashed the other people who are involved with this paper, or are they just "twoofer dupes"?
Some are dups and the others are just plain stupid and following a proven scientific fraud and all around idiot in Jones.

[Grizzly Bear]

Biden looked like he had a "WTF" expression when they brought up the thermite debate to him and I don't blame him :dl:

[johnny karate]

Hey, there was only two lines. Don't make me fetch examples of his annoying gibberish!

I won't. But since you quoted a specific post and mocked it for grammatical errors, when it didn't actually contain any, it wouldn't be fair or relevant to have you go on a scavenger hunt through beachnut's entire posting history, now would it?

[Ragnarok]

They are all crazy.

The laws of statistical averages would say it was highly unlikely that all debunkers were right on the money, and every 'non-OT' believer was either a USA hater or severely psychotic and delusional, don't you think?

[Josarhus]

So is it still conventional explosives planted in key locations or is it unconventional nano-therm*te planted in key locations?

:confused:

It looks like that both Niels Harrit and Jones are moving away from their own nano claim and back to conventional explosives, perhaps with nano thermite as the fuse.

[Ragnarok]

I won't. But since you quoted a specific post and mocked it for grammatical errors, when it didn't actually contain any, it wouldn't be fair or relevant to have you go on a scavenger hunt through beachnut's entire posting history, now would it?

Well, I wouldn't have done anyway, but if you've been around long, you'll know what I am saying is fair comment.

[dtugg]

The laws of statistical averages would say it was highly unlikely that all debunkers were right on the money, and every 'non-OT' believer was either a USA hater or severely psychotic and delusional, don't you think?

No. Twoofers believe what they believe because they are stupid and/or crazy and hate the USA.

[Sunray Breaker]

The twoofers still don't answer the important questions:

Why fly planes into the building if you're just gonna blow it up and make it look like a controlled demolition anyway?

They could've just collapsed the building with explosives and blamed it on Osama and Hussein at the same time and we would've been in Iraq in less than a week.

Why would they do this in such a half assed, poorly executed way?
Not exactly the fingerprint of conspiracy Illjoominati masterminds, huh?

Why is the "controlled demolition" such a botched mess after the collapse?

Who are your suspects that you have evidence of guilt for?

Have you presented any of this to a court of law?

Hows that peer review process comin' along?

Out of 139,000 Architects and Engineers, why do only 800(all with shoddy track records) agree with you?

How much money has Alex Jones, Jason Bermas and Dylan Avery donated to a reinvestigation? They should have plenty of money to get started, what with all those dvd sales and all...

[Ragnarok]

If you're going to start playing the numbers game, you might want to start a head count of the people who haven't bought into this nanothermite nonsense.

I'd be interested to hear of those who'd investigated the allegations and STILL hadn't bought into it. Got any of them?

[fourtoe]

The twoofers still don't answer the important questions:

Why fly planes into the building if you're just gonna blow it up and make it look like a controlled demolition anyway?

They could've just collapsed the building with explosives and blamed it on Osama and Hussein at the same time and we would've been in Iraq in less than a week.

Why would they do this in such a half assed, poorly executed way?
Not exactly the fingerprint of conspiracy Illjoominati masterminds, huh?

Why is the "controlled demolition" such a botched mess after the collapse?

Who are your suspects that you have evidence of guilt for?

Have you presented any of this to a court of law?

Hows that peer review process comin' along?

Out of 139,000 Architects and Engineers, why do only 800(all with shoddy track records) agree with you?

How much money has Alex Jones, Jason Bermas and Dylan Avery donated to a reinvestigation? They should have plenty of money to get started, what with all those dvd sales and all...

Look. All that stuff is unnecessary. You just have to go and get the attention of the VP. Don't have to answer any questions.

[~enigma~]

I'd be interested to hear of those who'd investigated the allegations and STILL hadn't bought into it.
Why is investigating the claim of a proven scientific fraud necessary? That is stupider than applying for a patent on a perpetual motion machine.

[Ragnarok]

The twoofers still don't answer the important questions:

Why fly planes into the building if you're just gonna blow it up and make it look like a controlled demolition anyway?

They could've just collapsed the building with explosives and blamed it on Osama and Hussein at the same time and we would've been in Iraq in less than a week.

It'd be far harder to explain how Islamic terrorists gained access to 3 of NY's most important buildings, don't you think?

Why would they do this in such a half assed, poorly executed way?
Not exactly the fingerprint of conspiracy Illjoominati masterminds, huh?

If the intent was mainly to make the world an even more uncertain place, it worked perfectly. And Plausible Deniability leaves a lot of room for manoeuvre.

Why is the "controlled demolition" such a botched mess after the collapse?
Because it wasn't "controlled", it was "initiated".

Who are your suspects that you have evidence of guilt for?
None, but if you wanted to find them, I guess you'd be looking among the higher echelons of the military-industrial complex and the oil barons.

Have you presented any of this to a court of law?
Any of what? Unsubstantiated supposition that some won't even countenance?

Hows that peer review process comin' along?
Ask a peer.

Out of 139,000 Architects and Engineers, why do only 800(all with shoddy track records) agree with you?
Does this mean there are 138,200 architects in a group called Architects For The Official Truth, or are they too busy chuckling at the ridiculousness of it all?

How much money has Alex Jones, Jason Bermas and Dylan Avery donated to a reinvestigation? They should have plenty of money to get started, what with all those dvd sales and all...
Haven't a clue, and why should he chip in when his own govt doesn't seem interested?

[Ragnarok]

Why is investigating the claim of a proven scientific fraud necessary? That is stupider than applying for a patent on a perpetual motion machine.

And how is it a proven scientific fraud if no-one but Jones and his cohorts are investigating it?

[Dave Rogers]

I suppose he has just brainwashed the other people who are involved with this paper, or are they just "twoofer dupes"?

Appeal to motive. Harrit et al's paper draws conclusions that contradict the evidence it presents to support those conclusions. I know this; I've read the paper, and I'm competent to understand it. Any discussion as to why the paper was produced is irrelevant to the objective assessment that the paper is self-contradictory.

The laws of statistical averages would say it was highly unlikely that all debunkers were right on the money, and every 'non-OT' believer was either a USA hater or severely psychotic and delusional, don't you think?

Appeal to probability. But in fact it's irrelevant, because you're dealing with a self-selecting sample. Being psychotic, or hating the USA, is not an independent condition from believing unfounded conspiracy theories; there is a causal connection. If conditions A and B are the sole causes of condition C, it is not improbable that conditions A and B are well correlated to condition C; it is, in fact, certain.

Dave

[~enigma~]

And how is it a proven scientific fraud if no-one but Jones and his cohorts are investigating it?
Apparently you only read what you want. Go check his DVD thread and maybe you will understand but I doubt it.

ETA - In case you didn't understand I was referring to Jones as being a proven scientific fraud for the last 20 years.

[johnny karate]

I'd be interested to hear of those who'd investigated the allegations and STILL hadn't bought into it. Got any of them?

This tired refrain of implying silence equals consent is transparently dishonest in the face of the Truth Movement's conscious effort to avoid legitimate scrutiny.

It's not my fault if intellectually dishonest Truthers hide their "science" from the world. And it's certainly not my responsibility to promote their nonsense. Any legitimate scientist would make their test samples available to other scientists to establish the veracity of their findings. Any legitimate scientist would actively promote their work in a forum other than those that cater to conspiracy theorists and ideologues.

If the Truth Movement were genuinely interested in the opinion of relevant experts, they'd ask them. But for the most part they don't. Why do you suppose that is?

[Brainster]

Moral of the story: Never ask a politician a five-paragraph question that he can answer with a simple, "Yes."

[Björn Toulouse]

No. Twoofers believe what they believe because they are stupid and/or crazy.


A good example of the stupid and crazy is around 3:42 on the video when the guy tells Biden that the "scientific paper" is continuing to be the very highest news story right now.


He stumbled over the words "should have been" (the highest news story right now) which would have been an accurate expression of his own wishes (yet, stupid and crazy) before going with "continuing to be" which prompted Biden to smirk and give a little "O RLY?" glance at someone nearby.

As long as those guys dwell in the world of conspiracies, they will never catch up with the real one.

[tfk]

The laws of statistical averages would say it was highly unlikely that all debunkers were right on the money, and every 'non-OT' believer was either a USA hater or severely psychotic and delusional, don't you think?
.
Not all truthers are US haters or psychotic or delusional. (In order to cover the major categories, you need to throw in shysters, Jew haters & Angry Young Boys. There's probably a few more that I've overlooking.)

Lots are. A disturbing percent.

What makes you think that "statistical averages" play a role in determining into which category people place themselves? There is a lot of self-selection going on here.

The evidence is clear: The more you know about any specific field, the less likely you are to accept any truther fantasy associated with that field.

All debunkers are not "right on the money".

Very few of the non-truthers are debunkers.

One does not have to understand the details of the "Official Story" in order to accept that the experts have likely gotten it right.

One does not have to understand the details of the "Official Story" in order to reject CD, LIHOP or MIHOP.

Just a couple of general points.

Tom

[T.A.M.]

See if you understand this.

Nutcase ranter who know everything but bad is it his grammar still convince me not much. But I be twoofer idiot not know science and gravity's laws, so me not judge best.

I agree with your second sentence.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

I suppose he has just brainwashed the other people who are involved with this paper, or are they just "twoofer dupes"?

yup...everyone of them are truther nutters.

TAM:)

[twinstead]

The world is flat because there isn't a "Geologists for a Round Earth" organization. You saw it here first folks.

[beachnut]

skip to 3.28 approx. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW9sesBESSs)

here's what he was handed (pdf) (http://www.bentham-open.org/images/download.gif)

So the question is, not how did this stuff get into the tower's dust, but, does this product they are suggesting actually exist and what would its properties and capabilities be if it does? Got chemistry?


Did you know they found paper in the WTC dust and it has more heat energy than thermite. Paper? Jones made up the thermite scenario and it is pure stupid. Why do you think he had to pay to have his paper published?

[T.A.M.]

Did you know they found paper in the WTC dust and it has more heat energy than thermite. Paper? Jones made up the thermite scenario and it is pure stupid. Why do you think he had to pay to have his paper published?

because of the NWO controlled media man!

Dude, you can't get anything published in the mainstream that is real man! You have to go for the alternative media if you wanna get the truth out man!

TAM;)

[~enigma~]

Why do you think he had to pay to have his paper published?
Think it might have to do with the idiot blacklisting himself by committing scientific fraud back in 1989. Notice that he has not had a scientific paper published in a credible scientific journal since 1989.

[T.A.M.]

Think it might have to do with the idiot blacklisting himself by committing scientific fraud back in 1989. Notice that he has not had a scientific paper published in a credible scientific journal since 1989.

perhaps it played a role, but I suspect the #1 reason he cannot get it published anywhere, is that it is BUNK PSEUDOSCIENCE.

TAM:)

[~enigma~]

perhaps it played a role, but I suspect the #1 reason he cannot get it published anywhere, is that it is BUNK PSEUDOSCIENCE.

TAM:)
No perhaps TAM. How quickly do you think a credible scientific journal would publish a paper from Joe Newman after his known fraud?

[tfk]

I do wish that Biden, Obama et al would put together a definitive, one sentence summation.

"The country's best engineering minds have looked at this and find your assertions to be contradicted by all the evidence."

Rather than simply walking away.

It seems cowardly to me to not simply settle it from this administration's POV.

Tom

[~enigma~]

I do wish that Biden, Obama et al would put together a definitive, one sentence summation.

"The country's best engineering minds have looked at this and find your assertions to be contradicted by all the evidence."

Rather than simply walking away.

It seems cowardly to me to not simply settle it from this administration's POV.

Tom
And you think that will pacify the unhuman humanoid looking creatures in the TM?

[FineWine]

The laws of statistical averages would say it was highly unlikely that all debunkers were right on the money, and every 'non-OT' believer was either a USA hater or severely psychotic and delusional, don't you think?


I happen to believe that there isn't a single "truther" who could be described as "normal." To swallow the prepsoterous collection of idiocies and outright falsehoods peddled by this insane movement requires stupidity and insanity. The hook, the underlying premise that makes people act so bizarrely, is hatred of America. Nobody sane can take seriously the pathetic nonsense endlessly recyled by cynical charlatans and certifiable loons.

When will Jones and his accomplices submit their work to an uindependent lab? (We all know the answer, but it's fun to make the bad guys squirm.)

[tfk]

And you think that will pacify the unhuman humanoid looking creatures in the TM?
.
It absolutely wil not pacify those folks.

But a definitive answer is better for the public at large, rather than simply walking away. I am in favor of politicians speaking plainly. (Yeah, keep dreaming...)

And it might even get across the message that "your nonsense isn't welcome here" to some of the truthers.

Of course, this'll make them act more like spoiled children right off the bat. Which is probably not a bad thing.

Tom

[~enigma~]

.
It absolutely wil not pacify those folks.

But a definitive answer is better for the public at large, rather than simply walking away. I am in favor of politicians speaking plainly. (Yeah, keep dreaming...)

And it might even get across the message that "your nonsense isn't welcome here" to some of the truthers.

Of course, this'll make them act more like spoiled children right off the bat. Which is probably not a bad thing.

Tom
Would a debate or even a scientific acknowledgment mean anything? The reason why most scientists refuse to debate idiocy like perpetual motion is because debate (and in alot of respects acknowledgment) raises the issue to one between scientific and intellectual equals. TM is not a scientific nor intellectual equal to anything other than an amoeba.

[Scott Sommers]

I happen to believe that there isn't a single "truther" who could be described as "normal." To swallow the prepsoterous collection of idiocies and outright falsehoods peddled by this insane movement requires stupidity and insanity. The hook, the underlying premise that makes people act so bizarrely, is hatred of America. Nobody sane can take seriously the pathetic nonsense endlessly recyled by cynical charlatans and certifiable loons.

When will Jones and his accomplices submit their work to an uindependent lab? (We all know the answer, but it's fun to make the bad guys squirm.)

This is a very interesting point to me. I have joined zillions of Internet 911 Truth groups. There is virtually no activity on most of these grooups anymore. My impression is there are many members of these groups who are 'normal' people but have lost interest in 911 since Obama got elected.

911 Truth means all kinds of things. It would include people who wonder why no military officials were disciplined. These folks would not necessarily believe in controlled demolition or any such nonsense and are more likely expressing solidarity with the Democrats. But as I said above, all of these people seem to have lost interest in 911.

The only people left now are a sub-group of 911 Truth that believes in some version of the inside job. This is a tiny minority of the original group. It is these folks we now see haunting our webforums. My impression from my short time on JREFF is that they are uniformly different from the vast majority of people in fundamental and important ways. I would hesitate to use the word 'crazy', but I suspect many of them are the colleagues and neighbors that are frightened by and frequently label as 'creeps'.

To be honest, I'm not even sure that Dylan was one of these guys originally, but he's been left with trying to live off this sad collection of unfortunate people.

[T.A.M.]

I do wish that Biden, Obama et al would put together a definitive, one sentence summation.

"The country's best engineering minds have looked at this and find your assertions to be contradicted by all the evidence."

Rather than simply walking away.

It seems cowardly to me to not simply settle it from this administration's POV.

Tom

Not really. I wouldn't expect them to answer the village idiot meanderings either. No different.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

Would a debate or even a scientific acknowledgment mean anything? The reason why most scientists refuse to debate idiocy like perpetual motion is because debate (and in alot of respects acknowledgment) raises the issue to one between scientific and intellectual equals. TM is not a scientific nor intellectual equal to anything other than an amoeba.

exactly. For someone like Obama or Biden to even entertain the truther bullcrap enough to formulate such a statement, is to raise their idiocy to a level it far from deserves.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

This is a very interesting point to me. I have joined zillions of Internet 911 Truth groups. There is virtually no activity on most of these grooups anymore. My impression is there are many members of these groups who are 'normal' people but have lost interest in 911 since Obama got elected.

911 Truth means all kinds of things. It would include people who wonder why no military officials were disciplined. These folks would not necessarily believe in controlled demolition or any such nonsense and are more likely expressing solidarity with the Democrats. But as I said above, all of these people seem to have lost interest in 911.

The only people left now are a sub-group of 911 Truth that believes in some version of the inside job. This is a tiny minority of the original group. It is these folks we now see haunting our webforums. My impression from my short time on JREFF is that they are uniformly different from the vast majority of people in fundamental and important ways. I would hesitate to use the word 'crazy', but I suspect many of them are the colleagues and neighbors that are frightened by and frequently label as 'creeps'.

To be honest, I'm not even sure that Dylan was one of these guys originally, but he's been left with trying to live off this sad collection of unfortunate people.

I agree. What is left of the TM are the crazy and the dumb. Everyone else was just fed up with Bush et al, and once that was put to rest, so was any sense of "inside job" or at least any desire to do anything about it or argue about it.

TAM:)

[Ragnarok]

What a load of unsubstantiated excrement!

[JoeyDonuts]

What a load of unsubstantiated excrement!

Introspection's a bitch, innit?

[Ragnarok]

Introspection's a bitch, innit?

I have my faults, but being dumb or crazy isn't one of them, alas. At times, I only wish it was. Life would be so much easier.

[T.A.M.]

What a load of unsubstantiated excrement!

Would you like me to add willfully ignorant or easily misled to the list?

TAM:)

[Ragnarok]

Would you like me to add willfully ignorant or easily misled to the list?

TAM:)

They'd both be equally wrong. Perhaps you are having some projection issues?

[T.A.M.]

They'd both be equally wrong. Perhaps you are having some projection issues?

lol...not likely, but nice try. I suppose I had that coming.

I do not really expect a member of the TM to see it as I do, so I am not surprised you do not find yourself in any of those categories.

TAM:)

[Scott Sommers]

What a load of unsubstantiated excrement!

I'm not sure if you're referring to my remarks. I could do a content analysis of the sites of TM groups and demonstration this. It's actually a pretty straightforward observation. But I do have a real life to live. The idea of dropping out of my career to demonstrate that space-based lasers or thermite destroyed the WTC complex seems bizarre to me. But then, I didn't discover cold fusion, either, so I'm obviously just not committed enough to truth and justice.