Serious question for JREF truthers

[sylvan8798]

In recent weeks, we've seen orchestrated and spontaneous "health care reform" protesters practically take over town hall meetings being held by our various senators and congressmen, yelling and screaming and making their voices heard.

Why is it that the Truth Movement has not managed to garner similar attention by organizing their believers to protest and speak out en masse at these meetings? Sure, over the years, we've seen the occasional "9/11 was an inside job" yelled out by some dolt in the back, or a lone one or two people nervously approaching some alleged perp with a question or "evidence", but in general not the loud, demanding, expressions of mass public outrage that one might expect.

[BigAl]

In recent weeks, we've seen orchestrated and spontaneous "health care reform" protesters practically take over town hall meetings being held by our various senators and congressmen, yelling and screaming and making their voices heard.

Why is it that the Truth Movement has not managed to garner similar attention by organizing their believers to protest and speak out en masse at these meetings? Sure, over the years, we've seen the occasional "9/11 was an inside job" yelled out by some dolt in the back, or a lone one or two people nervously approaching some alleged perp with a question or "evidence", but in general not the loud, demanding, expressions of mass public outrage that one might expect.

Per a post in the NYCCAN thread, the TM can't even round up 7 volunteers in NYC to work on checking the signatures that are necessary for their "New 9/11 Commission" proposal. They say they need 10x the manpower to meet the deadline.

[DGM]

In recent weeks, we've seen orchestrated and spontaneous "health care reform" protesters practically take over town hall meetings being held by our various senators and congressmen, yelling and screaming and making their voices heard.

Why is it that the Truth Movement has not managed to garner similar attention by organizing their believers to protest and speak out en masse at these meetings? Sure, over the years, we've seen the occasional "9/11 was an inside job" yelled out by some dolt in the back, or a lone one or two people nervously approaching some alleged perp with a question or "evidence", but in general not the loud, demanding, expressions of mass public outrage that one might expect.
I don't know why you ask a question you know the answer to (and they will never admit). I got more response to a school committee vote then the "truthers" have ever got. It's all about how big they perceive themselves to be by doing absolutely no research (or expending any effort). Reality has no home in their camp.

[T.A.M.]

The reason is simple.

APATHY. The truth movement is the MOST APATHETIC movement I have ever seen in my life. They like to sit at home, behind their computers, and whine and bitch about it being an inside job, but less that 0.1% of them actually have the motivation to remove their asses from their seats and do more.

TAM:)

[Longfellow]

The '9/11 truth movement' is made up of the fringe of the fringe of the fringe and is populated primarily by the willfully ignorant and charlatans. They have no cohesiveness whatsoever and in the years since 11 September, 2001, they have yet to come up with a coherent alternate narrative that fits the facts.

There is no doubt in my mind that what few 'truthers' there are have been watching these health care reformers with palpable envy.

[fourtoe]

I've only run into Truthers twice in the past 3 years. The first time there was only two and they were showing up to every Michael Shermer presentation (on his newest book, which as we all know has a lot of stuff about 911 in it).

The second time was at the Los Angeles Book Fair held at my school and I was a little more impressed because they had a lot of huge boards and things for sale.

I go to a pretty big school, I am a little bummed out that I don't see Truthers trying to recruit some more into their fringe movement because I LOVE going up to these types and arguing with them.

But sadly, they don't show up. I would really like to hear answer to the OP.

[alienentity]

Deleted. Wrong thread!

[Lupie]

The intellectually weak, and morally repugnant, often times only follow those who they are told are "Leaders of the Cause". Since these "people", these truthers, have no leadership whatsoever, they have no voice, and in my opinion, they never will. It's a game to them. They don't really care about anything, other than winning some internet "beef" with someone else. They only pretend to have a cause. They do not care enough to even learn the most basic facts of what they are claiming to be experts in. Why don't they show up? They don't show up because this is just some macabre hobby for them. They don't care about "the truth". They only care about looking cool on the internet to their so called friends. It's sad, and pathetic.

L.

[bill smith]

In recent weeks, we've seen orchestrated and spontaneous "health care reform" protesters practically take over town hall meetings being held by our various senators and congressmen, yelling and screaming and making their voices heard.

Why is it that the Truth Movement has not managed to garner similar attention by organizing their believers to protest and speak out en masse at these meetings? Sure, over the years, we've seen the occasional "9/11 was an inside job" yelled out by some dolt in the back, or a lone one or two people nervously approaching some alleged perp with a question or "evidence", but in general not the loud, demanding, expressions of mass public outrage that one might expect.

Because 9/11 is being turned into a taboo subject. This is a skeleton that most people are reluctant to let out of the cupboard or even to acknowledge..

Who would want to admit that their own government is implicated in so many deaths at home and abroad ? No, most people just want this to go away.

At the same time they can be forced out of this position of moral cowardice and if they are they will explode with outrage and anger, as much at themselves for ever outting up with it as at the perps for committing the crime of the century.

Mike Rivero put it best...

"Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

[Foolmewunz]

Because 9/11 is being turned into a taboo subject. This is a skeleton that most people are reluctant to let out of the cupboard or even to acknowledge..

Make up your mind, Bill. You're always telling us how the movement is growing and growing and will soon have the massive support to get that new investigation.
Do I see a crack in the facade? Events in NYC getting you down a bit, are they?


Who would want to admit that their own government is implicated in so many deaths at home and abroad ? No, most people just want this to go away.

The minute one of you shows up with any evidence that is credible, you'll see a whole different world out there, Bill. Alas, there is no such evidence, so what you're hearing is those same people who tell Lucy the Duck Girl to "Ahhhh Shutup!" when she starts going on about how her refrigerator is being controlled by a Venusian Warlord who is using Rocky Road flavor ice cream to corrupt our youth.


At the same time they can be forced out of this position of maral cowardice and if they are they will explode with outrage and anger, as much at themselves for ever outting up with it as at the perps for committing the crime of the century.

You joining Jihad Jane in the "poop will hit the fan" Nostradamus 2009 betting pool? Where are these outraged and angry masses that you expect to storm the halls of government in D.C., the UN, and the EU? So far I see a couple of posters on internet forums.


Mike Rivero put it best...

"Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

Interesting that you trudge this out regularly. Must be one of your favorite quotes, eh? Is this how you justify being a do-nothing public whiner spending your time trolling canvassing the internet? Afraid you'll get gunned down if you were to take your convictions to the streets, are you?
I don't get this. I'll ask you what I asked Metamars in a Sybil Emonds thread:

"You'd go to jail for your convictions, wouldn't you?" I mean, you're a truther and The TruthTM is the most important thing to you guys. What's a little jail term in exchange for bringing all those evildoers to justice?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Mike Rivero put it best...

Mike Rivero is a Holocaust denier.

[AJM8125]

In recent weeks, we've seen orchestrated and spontaneous "health care reform" protesters practically take over town hall meetings being held by our various senators and congressmen, yelling and screaming and making their voices heard.

Why is it that the Truth Movement has not managed to garner similar attention by organizing their believers to protest and speak out en masse at these meetings? Sure, over the years, we've seen the occasional "9/11 was an inside job" yelled out by some dolt in the back, or a lone one or two people nervously approaching some alleged perp with a question or "evidence", but in general not the loud, demanding, expressions of mass public outrage that one might expect.

A very good friend of mine is a 100%, card carrying Reaganomic Republican and he's actually been contacted by the Contra Costa Republican Party to enquire if he'd be interested in raising a ruckus at any future "town hall" meetings. I'll post the videos when he appears on Fox.

There's the answer to the OP: whereas the Republicans are determined to voice their opinion on subjects they're passionate about, 9/11 troof can't even agree upon a narrative, let alone be trusted to oranize themselves into any kind of political force. One only needs to look at NYCCAN to see the truth of that. The whole damned effort steered right into the swamp before it even left the ground and most of them don't realize it.

[Dave Rogers]

Mike Rivero is a Holocaust denier.

Can you give examples? I've seen him called a Zionist agent specifically for not denying the Holocaust.

Dave

[sylvan8798]

Some good responses. I was hoping for more from the TM club, but at least BS weighed in. My thinking is that most of these people are socially inept loners living in their mom's basements.

On the internets, they are anonymous and can find like-minded type groups where they can appear to be "in the know" about something - anything will do. But in general, they are not leaders, and they have no real leader, so they can't muster themselves to do much beyond posting on internet forums.

They also know that they have no real background to evaluate whether what they are saying is crap or crayola. If faced with someone who challenges their idiocy, they either run away or continue to spout idiocy, Stundie fashion, thereby making for good contest material. In person, it's more challenging to have someone tell you that you are way off base, so to speak.

Of course, this doesn't explain people like Craig Ranke and Aldo, who have broken out of their basements in an apparent attempt to make money or something.

[Seymour Butz]

The intellectually weak, and morally repugnant, often times only follow those who they are told are "Leaders of the Cause". Since these "people", these truthers, have no leadership whatsoever, they have no voice, and in my opinion, they never will. It's a game to them. They don't really care about anything, other than winning some internet "beef" with someone else. They only pretend to have a cause. They do not care enough to even learn the most basic facts of what they are claiming to be experts in. Why don't they show up? They don't show up because this is just some macabre hobby for them. They don't care about "the truth". They only care about looking cool on the internet to their so called friends. It's sad, and pathetic.

L.


I agree.

It's all about looking cool in their black tee, and hopefully getting to touch some booby with some nutty chick.

[The Platypus]

Because 9/11 is being turned into a taboo subject. This is a skeleton that most people are reluctant to let out of the cupboard or even to acknowledge..

Who would want to admit that their own government is implicated in so many deaths at home and abroad ? No, most people just want this to go away.

At the same time they can be forced out of this position of moral cowardice and if they are they will explode with outrage and anger, as much at themselves for ever outting up with it as at the perps for committing the crime of the century.

Mike Rivero put it best...

"Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."


Standard cult minion delusions...

1st)
Pretending people are somehow scared to play your little cult minions game and because they don't buy your nonsense, is a childhood school yard tactic.

This is reminiscent of when i was a little kid hanging out with my friends, trying to decide what to do that day. One kid wanted us to play a game were we pretended to be our favorite imaginary superheros in the park and I thought we should all go swimming instead. He started calling me a "stupidhead" and a "chicken", as he was trying to convince the others to go along with his idea instead of going swimming.

2nd)
I would love to know, who are these people that think the gov't never lies and has no corruption? Everyone i know has some complaints about the gov't on some issue. Everyone i know, knows that all politicians lie. Everyone i know, knows there is too much corruption. I have never seen anyone running around believing absolutely everything "the gov't" says or does, or thinks that the gov't or any politician is totally right and totally honest all the time. Come to think of it, there is one exception! The only people i have ever seen that totally believe a politician to be completely honest and uncorruptable, are the extreme political cult wackos like the Ron Paul nut jobs, a large number of which also are 911 traitors.

In order to buy that 911 was and inside job, one has to believe the gov't is far more intelligent and competent than anyone i know.

[sylvan8798]

Of course, there is this: http://www.rr.com/news/news/article/1110/8608147/Officials_see_rise_in_militia_groups_across_US

You have to know that many of these people espouse the 9/11 ct's. All they need is a spark and a leader, and Bill could be right.

[alienentity]

I think 9/11 truth is truly a fringe issue in America currently. It cannot get past that point for a number of reasons, including the fact (noted above in other posts) that it has no cohesive narrative. But also it offers no tangible solution to Americans; no immediate closure or resolution of the alleged crimes. After almost 8 years (next month will mark that anniversary) it can offer no real prime suspects for the alleged crimes.

I think that would change immediately if a few credible whistleblowers emerged from the 'conspiracy' with detailed proof of a government plot. It would be the story of the century in American media - a sensation far greater than the Iran/Contra scandal, the Watergate Scandal, the infamous traitors Klaus Fuchs, the Rosenbergs or terrorists like Timothy McVeigh.

But that hasn't happened, of course. Not one person of consequence has stepped forward in an act of patriotism to expose the alleged conspiracy. There are only two conclusions to draw from this fact:

1) the thousands of co-conspirators in American military, various government administration, police, firemen and emergency workers etc... have remained completely silent, and anyone else who has discovered the crime has been silenced by hush money or intimidation (by the men in black, one supposes)

2) 9/11 was NOT an inside job, and there was no vast American conspiracy to carry it out.

[Scott Sommers]

I have a somewhat different view on 911 Truth, In the process of trying to understand this, I joined at least a dozen on-line 911 Truth forums. These groups have never been heterogeneous. Some of them seemed quite large and composed of people of legitimate background, but most of these people would have been there as a protest against the Bush Administration. Perhaps they were concerned with 911 related issues like military accountability or corruption in government.

The 'inside job' people have always been only a fraction of the 911 Truth Movement. My guess is that the 'military accountablity' people, for example, really want nothing to do with a typical 'inside job' advocate. Because of this strange interpretation of solidarity that's emerged on the political left, there's not much talk about this, but I suspect most ordinary people trying to find solidarity on the left think a one your statistically ordinary 'inside jobbers' is creepy.

Almost all of these groups have stopped functioning, particularly severe since Obama won. The result of this is that the only active people in these groups are the 'inside jobbers', particularly the racists. The TM is gradually being transformed into ranting looneys that you want you wouldn't let near your teenage children. Honestly, take a look at the people on this forum.

[DavidJames]

The TM is gradually being transformed into ranting looneys that you want you wouldn't let near your teenage children. Honestly, take a look at the people on this forum.My exposure to the TM has been limited to the original Loose Change forum and JREF. Once I got banned from LC, I've only been here. I see no real change in the "looneys" now and those 4 or 5 years ago. Different names, same crazy. Of course, that's based solely on my observations and could be proven wrong.

[Scott Sommers]

I agree with you, but in the past and on other forums, there have been many other different kinds of people. Some of the groups I belong to have tens of thousands of people - teenage kids in rock bands, college girls who talk about truth and justice, working-class people concerned about children in developing economies - but they're all silent now. The result is the 'Mossad did it' folks seems much more prominient.

[beachnut]

I agree with you, but in the past and on other forums, there have been many other different kinds of people. Some of the groups I belong to have tens of thousands of people - teenage kids in rock bands, college girls who talk about truth and justice, working-class people concerned about children in developing economies - but they're all silent now. The result is the 'Mossad did it' folks seems much more prominient.
There you go, they are bound by stupidity; they are neoNAZIs.

You can't put a label on the politics of the 911 failed liars movement; it is diverse. I think there was blind support from those against Bush and Obama became president the blind support, the apathetic I don't like Bush cause Thermite-Jones may have something support evaporates.

How many non Clinton supporters never spoke up against the idiotic conspiracy theories about Clintons. Both sides, the middle, and the extremes need to speak up against lies.

What is left are the completely clueless, can't think for themselves, paranoid against something spewing delusions mindlessly.

[Scott Sommers]

I don't know if they're neo-Nazi. Perhaps some of them are. I have read posts from people claiming that the Three Stooges of LC are part of a Jewish disinformation conspiracy.

Mark Roberts makes a big deal about how there seem to few or no truely mentally ill among the 'inside jobbers'. He misses the point - perhaps out of politeness. They're creepy people. They may be sane, but you don't want to be around them too long. You don't want them talking to the impressionable, the naive, or the mentally weak. And honestly, you wonder what they might do to teenagers and children if left alone.

[Hokulele]

I agree with you, but in the past and on other forums, there have been many other different kinds of people. Some of the groups I belong to have tens of thousands of people - teenage kids in rock bands, college girls who talk about truth and justice, working-class people concerned about children in developing economies - but they're all silent now. The result is the 'Mossad did it' folks seems much more prominient.


And many CTists have simply outgrown it. There have been at least three young men (under the age of 20) who have posted here just in the last month or so stating outright that they no longer believe in the bulk of the CT nonsense.

[Justin39640]

And many CTists have simply outgrown it. There have been at least three young men (under the age of 20) who have posted here just in the last month or so stating outright that they no longer believe in the bulk of the CT nonsense.

i think thats true
i also think guys join (which make up the majority of the TM) to be perceived as some sort rebel or intelligent by members of the opposite sex by working to expose an all powerful and dangerous enemy
(all us guys know weve done stupid stuff to impress girls when we were young. sometimes it worked sometimes it didnt lol)

after they realize its a huge sausage festival (cause no one is impressed for the most part), they move on to acting like a normal humans again

testosterone = inside job (or at least the belief in one lol)

[HyJinX]

testosterone = inside job

But it'll cost you a dinner and flowers. ;)

[Thunder]

Why is it that the Truth Movement has not managed to garner similar attention by organizing their believers to protest and speak out en masse at these meetings? .

Don't you understand???

Supporting 9-11 Truth can risk one's life!!!

Look at all the 9-11 Truthers that have been murdered for speaking da twoof!!

1. Dan Wallace.
2. the black guy from WTC 7.
3. ummmmmmmmmm......all those other people!!!

:)

[Bobert]

Where the hell is Red?

[alienentity]

Where the hell is Red?

Add him to the list - he asked too many questions..:D


You probably wouldn't be surprised how many people believe Barry Jennings testimony over that of Michael Hess, partly because Hess worked for Guiliani, but partly because Jennings has passed away.

There's 'something suspicious', they say....

I keep telling 'em. I believe both Jennings and Hess: they both state that there were burning buses and police vehicles when they broke a window (shortly after the stairwell collapse almost killed both men). That is clear evidence the towers had already fallen, by both men.