www.whoslying.org

[Memekiller]

I've started up a Web site that's supposed to expose blatant attempts to mislead/lie called www.whoslying.org (http://www.whoslying.org) . Right now, it's a bit heavy on the politics, and I'm looking to beef up the pseudoscience section. Anyone who can lead me to any great fabrications that can be backed up by mainstream legitimate sources, I'd appreciate it. Even better, I'm looking for die-hard debunkers to register on my site, and I'll set you up as an editor so you can submit goodies regularly.

I have a special section devoted to checking out the background of "experts" and "scientists", so journalists have an easy resource to check out the background of someone before they write a story about them. Fake degrees, hyped up credentials/publications, that sort of thing.

Thanks!

[geni]

Would this (http://www.pbase.com/8w/8thwonder) be of any interest to you? I don't think I can find any main stream souces attacing it but it should be fairly obvious why it is bunk (think ship in a bottle).The guy behind it is DR Mas. As you can see from the article he has some impresive conections.

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

I'm too rational to lie!:r: :crazy: :h1: :dl: :wow2: :tr:

[corplinx]

Originally posted by Memekiller
I've started up a Web site that's supposed to expose blatant attempts to mislead/lie called www.whoslying.org (http://www.whoslying.org) . Right now, it's a bit heavy on the politics

I think I like the spinsanity approach. The very title for "Spin Sanity" is more diplomatic than "Who's Lying".

As far as going into paranormal claims and such, I think Penn and Teller had to call their show BullSh*t because using Liar/Fake/Charlatan opened the avenue for legal recourse.

[xouper]

Memekiller: I have a special section devoted to checking out the background of "experts" and "scientists", so journalists have an easy resource to check out the background of someone before they write a story about them. Fake degrees, hyped up credentials/publications, that sort of thing. Richard Hoagland should probably be on that list somewhere. In addition to his lack of any formal education beyond high school, other relevant issues to include would be the controversy surrounding his medal, his false claim to have been a consultant for NASA, his misprepresentations regarding life on Europa and the Pioneer 10 plaque, and various other exaggerated claims he's made about himself. Hoagland's bio page (http://www.enterprisemission.com/hoagland.html) is a real piece of comedy.

Cites:
http://home.teleport.com/~photoget/angstrom.htm
http://members.aol.com/garypos2/Hoagland.html
http://www.math.washington.edu/%7Egreenber/FaxBack.html
http://www.rense.com/ufo2/remedy.htm

[Memekiller]

This is all good stuff. Thanks for the response. I'll put these up as soon as I get a chance. If I use something you tipped me off about, I'm willing to credit you as one of my official tattle tales using whatever name you want. I'll e-mail you individuallyto get your permission (there's also a tattle tale page to submit directly to the site in the future).

Corplinx... yes, some good friends of mine have given similar reservations about my site being "undiplomatic". I understand those concerns, but I eventually decided diplomacy is not really what I'm after. There's no diplomatic way to point out when people blatantly engage in attemtps to deceive. In fact, setting up this site was sort of a reaction to news stories that report on someone who purposely and shamelessly engages in acts of deception. For instance, during the Republican campaign for President, some unnamed special interest group spread fliers throughout the South that claimed McCain sired an illigitimate black child. This was false. The reason they said this was that McCain had ADOPTED a black child, and they showed pictures of them together. And I'm quite sure the people who spread this rumor knew that -- at least, they couldn't show any evidence to the contrary.

In the face of such stories, the news usually calls this sort of thing a "misstatement", "inaccuracy", or "untruth". That's nice of them. Much nicer than they were to McCain. But it's a lie, plain and simple. Regardless of what you think of McCain's politics, you ought to be able to run against him based on his politics, or by harping on something nefarious he's actually done. I see no reason why we should be so concerned with being polite to someone who engages in that kind of sleaze. And I'm not really looking to be their friend.

By the same token, people who fake their resumes, claim to be scientists when they're not, set up fake universities to grant themselves fake degrees so they can put themselves on equal standing with someone who actually did homework and research and puts their thesis up for peer review -- I see no problem with branding them exactly what they are: liars. Not to be mean, but because it's the most accurate term to describe them.

[espritch]

Here's one for you. The Charlotte Observer (Charlotte NC) included a first page story into today's issue about what you can do to avoid the flu if you couldn't get an inoculation. It starts off with the usual: wash your hands, avoid sick people, get plenty of rest.

It then moves into less certain ground with a recommendation for zinc, vitamin C, garlic, and echinacea. From there is goes down hill. We get a recommendation for Chinese herbs like astragalus, medicinal mushrooms, and yin chiao from an acupuncturist. Acupuncture gets a node, not a flu cure but to boost immunity by unblocking chi. It includes the requisite anecdotal story of the man who hasn't had any colds since he started getting regular acupuncture treatments.

Of course if you are taking herbs and getting regular acupuncture treatments and you still get the flu, you could try antiviral drugs like Tamiflu, but there are cheaper alternatives like elderberry extract and a homeopathic remedy called oscillococcinum.

I just love the way the article mixes sound practical advice with woo woo alternative medicine without even the slightest hint that some of these alternative treatments might be somewhat lacking in clinical evidence of efficacy.

[espritch]

I decided to send the Observer an Email response to that article.
Don't know if they'll print it, but one can only try. My response:

I started reading the morning’s addition of the Observer, and there on the front cover was a story about what you can do avoid the flu if you missed out on the vaccine. Since I haven’t had a vaccination, I started reading it. It started off the reasonable if rather obvious advice; wash your hand regularly, get plenty of rest, avoid sick people - so far so good. But things quickly went down hill. First there’s the standard litany of herbal remedies: zinc, vitamin C, garlic, echinicia. Then we get a nod to acupuncture to unblock chi, and finally, a recommendation for a homeopathic remedy.

Herbal remedies are generally sold as dietary supplements exactly because such supplements aren’t required to prove their claims of efficacy. There is some evidence that zinc, vitamin C, and possibly garlic may have health benefits, there is no clear evidence supporting the usefulness of echinicia. In fact, recent studies have shown it had no beneficial effect in treating colds and in some cases, produced skin rashes.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/parenting/12/02/echinacea.children.ap/index.html

Acupuncture, while it may be a very ancient practice, has little clinical evidence to support its claims. No one has ever shown that chi exists, much less that sticking needles in your skin can unblock it, requisite anecdotal accounts notwithstanding.

As for homeopathy, it’s pure nonsense. Homeopaths start will a small amount of a substance supposed to produce effects similar to those of the condition it is supposed to treat. They then repeatedly dilute it to the point where virtually nothing remains but water. When you buy a homeopathic remedy, you are buying an expensive bottle of water. No properly controlled test of homeopathic remedies has ever demonstrated any measurable effect from these bottles of magic water.

Passing off this kind of alternative nonsense as legitimate health advice borders on criminal negligence.

[Doubt]

Memekiller,

Found your site by accident last month. I only passed on word of it to Subgenius, however.

Great site so far. Keep it up.

One thing though. The people at spinsanity did state their political biases as a matter of full disclosure. It would be nice if you did the same. Or are you apolitical?

But as already stated, so far, so good.

Any chance that you will eventually start an update section? Eventually some of the liars may need their own pages just for you to keep up. But I won’t mention any names. * cough * Ann C. * cough *

[Memekiller]

Originally posted by Doubt
Memekiller,

Found your site by accident last month. I only passed on word of it to Subgenius, however.

Great site so far. Keep it up.

One thing though. The people at spinsanity did state their political biases as a matter of full disclosure. It would be nice if you did the same. Or are you apolitical?

But as already stated, so far, so good.

Any chance that you will eventually start an update section? Eventually some of the liars may need their own pages just for you to keep up. But I won’t mention any names. * cough * Ann C. * cough *

Thanks! Glad you like the site. Anytime I come across exculpatory or incriminating evidence, I'll update the lies. As for whether I'm apolitical or not, this is run out of my home out of my own pocket and I'm not affiliated with anybody. And I'll run any lie someone can back up with reliable mainstream sources.

As for political opinions, I have them, and there are certainly people who show up quite frequently because I keep tabs on them more than others. That would be the current administration, especially concerning issues of science or the war, Ann C., O'Reilly, folks like that. In case it's not obvious, I won't be voting to return the present guys to office, if that's what you mean. Not a big fan.

But it's not Bushlies, where I'm only after one party. I have a weekly column by Daniel Borchers, founder of Brother Watch and Citizens for Principled Conservatism. He's a conservative Christian, so he's got very distinct, deeply held political beliefs as well. What we share, however, is a belief that we should do everything we can to force our politicians to debate the issues on the facts as they see them, and to hold them accountable for their deceptions.

As I said above about McCain -- it's okay to be against campaign finance reform. You can make honest arguments on both sides. What you can't do is say he had an illegitimate black daughter when he didn't. That's all we're about. Objective people, left or right, ought to be for that.

AND keep in mind, politics is only one aspect of the site. I want commercial fraud, misleading advertising, pseudoscience, front organizations, celebrities who claim not to have had breast implants or to be addicted to "backpain" medication. Whatever. It's all about the lies, man!

[Eos of the Eons]

I applaud your efforts. Go for it full throttle.

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

I don't have to be a psychic (they don't exist) to conclude as a fact that all believers are lying!