What Is Wrong With The Human Body?

[Rodney]

And its removal in appendicitis has prevented it from killing thousands each year with no detrimental effect.
Can you cite a study that compared the health of individuals with and without appendixes?

[paximperium]

Can you cite a study that compared the health of individuals with and without appendixes?
So still no point? To humor you:
Williams, R. A. and Myers, P. (1994) Pathology of the appendix. Chapman and Hall Medical: New York, NY. pg. 57
Anyanwu, S. N. (1994) "Agenesis of the appendix--case report." West Afr J Med. 13: 66.[PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8080837&dopt=Abstract)
Chevre, F., Gillet, M., and Vuilleumier, H. (2000) "Agenesis of the vermiform appendix." Surg Laparosc Endosc Percutan Tech. 10: 110-112. [PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10789585&dopt=Abstract)
Collins, D.C. (1955) "A study of 50,000 specimens of the human vermiform appendix." Surg Gynecol Obstet. 101: 437-445. [PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=13256319&dopt=Abstract)
Hei, E. L. (2003) "Congenital absence of the vermiform appendix." ANZ J Surg. 73: 862. [PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14640145&dopt=Abstract)
Host, W. H., Rush, B., and Lazaro, E. J. (1972) "Congenital absence of the vermiform appendix." Am Surg. 38: 355-356. [PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=5025319&dopt=Abstract)
Iuchtman, M. (1993) "Autoamputation of appendix and the 'absent' appendix." Arch Surg. 128: 600. [PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8489396)
Kalyshev, I. G., Andreev, G. F., Kolenda, I. V., and Mustiatsa, V. I. (1995) "Absence of the appendix." Klin Khir. 7-8: 49. [PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8624948&dopt=Abstract)
Manoil, L. (1957) "Congenital absence of the appendix." Am J Surg. 93: 1040-1042. [PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=13424860&dopt=Abstract)
Pester, G.H. (1965) "Congenital absence of the vermiform appendix." Arch Surg. 91: 461-462. [PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14332402&dopt=Abstract)
Piquet, F., Elmale, C., and Elhadad, A. (1986) "Absence of the appendix. Apropos of a case." J Chir (Paris). 123 :117-8. [PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3700498&dopt=Abstract)
Ponomarenko, V. N., and Novikova, N. A. (1978) "Rare case of absence of the vermiform appendix." Vestn Khir Im I I Grek. 121: 54-55. [PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=695180&dopt=Abstract)
Rolff, M., Jepsen, L. V., and Hoffmann, J. (1992) "The 'absent' appendix." Arch Surg. 127: 992. [PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1642544&dopt=Abstract)
Saave, J. J. (1955) "Absence of the vermiform appendix; report of a case discovered at necropsy." Acta Anat (Basel). 23: 327-329. [PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14387408&dopt=Abstract)
Shperber, J., Halevy, A., Sayfan, J., and Oland, J. (1983) "Congenital absence of the vermiform appendix." Isr J Med Sci. 19: 214-215. [PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6841055&dopt=Abstract)
Tilson, M. D. and Touloukian, R. J. (1972) "Agenesis of the vermiform appendix." J Pediatr Surg. 7: 74. [PubMed] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=5013136&dopt=Abstract)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/vestiges/appendix.html#functionsHave fun reading and finding these papers.

[BenBurch]

Rodney, you are arguing with a medical doctor here, did you know that? He undoubtedly knows more about this subject than you ever could.

I do notice, however, that you aren't telling me that the Wisdom Tooth was a great design choice, or that the human eye is a paragon of optical design, or that the lumbar spine is what any sane engineer would choose to convert a four-footed animal into an upright one.

If your designer is anything, he is LAZY, he does not invent new things that would suit the purpose at hand, he changes what already exists in some fairly dubious ways into something that just works well enough to allow us to survive.

Funny that, its just what the Blind Watchmaker of Natural Selection does...

[Rodney]

So still no point? To humor you:
Have fun reading and finding these papers.
Thanks, those papers sound like a barrel of laughs. ;) However, what I'm really interested in is a study tracking the health of individuals who have had their appendix surgically removed compared with individuals who still have their appendix.

[rjh01]

What use are the finger or toe nails? I know it is a small issue, but I sometimes wonder why they exist at all. About the only purpose is to scratch things. Yet they can break and cause pain and suffering.

[paximperium]

Thanks, those papers sound like a barrel of laughs. ;) However, what I'm really interested in is a study tracking the health of individuals who have had their appendix surgically removed compared with individuals who still have their appendix.
Why? Do you still have a point in this little chit chat at all?

[BenBurch]

Rodney, there are such studies. Go do a literature search, and I mean not Google.

BUT, here a choice fact for you;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8174886
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118937148/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Appendectomy PROTECTS against ulcerative colitis...

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An article from 1984 on the first century of appendectomy - not literally true as one was done in 1735, but it was in a hernia operation and so presented right under the skin;

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1250537

----

[paximperium]

Thanks Rodney for making me look for this literature which shows that the appendix is way more harmful and dangerous than I previously thoughtand that it should be removed even when not diseased.

Preventive appendectomy in gynecologic surgery. Report of 1,718 cases
Krone HA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Krone%20HA%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Sperke E (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Sperke%20E%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus).
In the period between 1965-1986 with a collective sum of 5369 gynecological laparotomies, the appendix was removed as a preventive measure in 1718 cases (32%). In all these cases, the recovery period proceeded without any complications. The results of the histological studies on the appendices showed an acute appendicitis in 136 cases (7.9%). In 1118 cases (65.1%) a chronic appendicitis was found, with differing severity of fibroid scarring, including total obliteration. In 96 cases (5.6%), there was evidence of carcinoid, mucocele, and endometriosis. Only 368 appendices (21.4%) were normal morphologically. The large percentage of histopathological findings confirms, that the appendix--being a rudimentary lymphatic organ--appears to be predestined for inflammatory changes. For this reason, the risk of illness and death from appendicitis remains, especially for older people. It is usually possible, to perform a prophylactic appendectomy under optimal conditions and we experienced, that this additional operation does not increase the risk to the patient. We consider, that the routine practice of the prophylactic simultaneous appendectomy during gynecological laparotomies is justified, providing, that the contra-indications mentioned are observed.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2612843
Appendectomy at the time of cesarean section. Kraus SF (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Kraus%20SF%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Abell RD (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Abell%20RD%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Schipul AH Jr (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Schipul%20AH%20Jr%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus).
Saint Anthony Hospital, 608 NW 9th St., Suite 1000 OKC, OK 73102, USA.
The current world literature estimates the incidence of appendicitis in pregnancy at approximately 1 case per 1500 normal deliveries. Observations of one physician and review of records from Saint Anthony Hospital in Oklahoma City have suggested potential benefit to routine examination of the appendix at the time of cesarean section and removal if it appears pathologic. The medical literature was reviewed regarding appendicitis in pregnancy and incidental or indicated appendectomy at the time of cesarean section. Many authors have described difficulties with diagnosis, as well as potential complications of appendicitis in pregnancy. Studies have confirmed the safety of performing incidental appendectomy at the time of cesarean section. The authors, therefore, propose that clinicians visualize and palpate the appendix at all cesarean sections, and remove those with evidence of inflammation or disease.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14520930?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed


Appendectomy in Patients Undergoing Laparoscopic Surgery for Pelvic Pain
Dr.Thomas L. Lyons M.D.a (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7W6G-4GBW3M0-H&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=994592003&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c6850018af7e328ec95695dee1bed544#aff1), b (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7W6G-4GBW3M0-H&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=994592003&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c6850018af7e328ec95695dee1bed544#aff2), http://www.sciencedirect.com/scidirimg/entities/REcor.gif (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7W6G-4GBW3M0-H&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=994592003&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c6850018af7e328ec95695dee1bed544#cor1), Wendy K. Winer R.N., B.S.N., CNORa (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7W6G-4GBW3M0-H&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=994592003&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c6850018af7e328ec95695dee1bed544#aff1), b (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7W6G-4GBW3M0-H&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=994592003&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c6850018af7e328ec95695dee1bed544#aff2) and Ann Woo M.D.a (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7W6G-4GBW3M0-H&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=994592003&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c6850018af7e328ec95695dee1bed544#aff1), b (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7W6G-4GBW3M0-H&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=994592003&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c6850018af7e328ec95695dee1bed544#aff2)

aDepartment of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Emory University Medical Center, Atlanta, Georgia
bCenter for Women's Care and Reproductive Surgery, Atlanta, Georgia
Accepted 26 April 2001.
Available online 8 June 2005.
Abstract
Study Objective
To evaluate pathologic findings in appendixes of women undergoing laparoscopic surgery for pelvic pain.
Design
Retrospective study (Canadian Task Force classification II-2).
Setting
Private practice specializing in gynecologic endoscopic surgery.
Patients
One hundred ninety women.
Intervention
Prophylactic appendectomy
Measurements and Main Results
On pathologic evaluation, 154 appendixes were diagnosed as having one or more abnormal findings, such as endometriosis, carcinoid, chronic appendicitis, periappendicitis, fibrous obliteration, and lymphoid hyperplasia.
Conclusion
Women undergoing laparoscopic surgery for pelvic pain should be counseled on the high frequency of abnormal findings in the appendix, including endometriosis. Prophylactic appendectomy appears to be a worthwhile consideration in these patients.http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7W6G-4GBW3M0-H&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=994592003&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c6850018af7e328ec95695dee1bed544

[Rrose Selavy]

What use are the finger or toe nails? I know it is a small issue, but I sometimes wonder why they exist at all. About the only purpose is to scratch things. Yet they can break and cause pain and suffering.

Hmm. They're made of the same stuff ( keratin) as hoofs so maybe they're a throwback to some common ancestor.
Wiki says they aid fingertip sensitivity and references another article that says:


"The nail is a structure of keratinized squamous cells that acts as a protective plate and enhances sensation of the fingertip. Two-point discrimination decreases if the nail is not present to act as a counterforce to the tip of the finger when an object is touched."

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20010515/1961.html

[rjh01]

That is odd. Would have thought the bone would have served that function.

[Rodney]

Thanks Rodney for making me look for this literature which shows that the appendix is way more harmful and dangerous than I previously thought and that it should be removed even when not diseased.
You're welcome, but how do the studies you cite show that? Again, the question is whether individuals who have had their appendix surgically removed have fewer, greater, or about the same health problems as individuals who still have their appendix.

[paximperium]

You're welcome, but how do the studies you cite show that? So you don't know how to read?

Again, the question is whether individuals who have had their appendix surgically removed have fewer, greater, or about the same health problems as individuals who still have their appendix.I don't care. Why do you?
I'm still waiting for some sort of point because meandering conversations with Creationist is about as amusing as kicking a retarded dog.

[arthwollipot]

Here's something...

17-year old boy dies of a ruptured appendix while his parents pray (http://wenatcheeworld.com/article/20090826/NEWS04/708269952/0/sports).

Situations like this make me want to vomit.

[Femke]

Why did this perfect designer put in tiny muscles for ear movement in some, but not in others? It is of no real use, and why in only a selection of us?
Now if we would've descended from animals that needed some way to direct their hearing it would have made sense...

Isn't it a nice idea to take the appendicitis discussion to a thread of its own?

[leftysergeant]

So, maybe He meant it as a challenge, perhaps to toughen us up or to tenderize us for whatever He has in mind for us in the next iteration of our existance, in some higher plane of existance. Or perhaps we are just temporary sensory pseudopoda of the Great Uncreated, sent out to view the results of this vast chemistry/physics experiment that is the physical universe.

That He is not utterly malevolent is apparent in His having given us a sense of humor.

(Or maybe He just figured we would all off ourselves or each other without it.)

[leftysergeant]

That is odd. Would have thought the bone would have served that function.Bone needs a blood supply. Thus it would need to be enclosed in skin. Skin is prone to injuries.

The scratching function has a definite survival value.

Just try to peel an orange after you have cut your nails to the quick.

[Rrose Selavy]

yeah we still need nails.
Can you imagine only being able to rub an itch?
Though nature hasn't given us the ability to reach "everywhere" .....

[BenBurch]

... Just try to peel an orange after you have cut your nails to the quick.

Sadist! ;)

[BenBurch]

... Isn't it a nice idea to take the appendicitis discussion to a thread of its own?

Done; http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=152540

[Alice Shortcake]

"The nail is a structure of keratinized squamous cells that acts as a protective plate and enhances sensation of the fingertip. Two-point discrimination decreases if the nail is not present to act as a counterforce to the tip of the finger when an object is touched."
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20010515/1961.html


Squamous? That may well be the first time I've seen that word used by someone other than H P Lovecraft!

[JoeTheJuggler]

Can you cite a study that compared the health of individuals with and without appendixes?
Why? For purposes of this thread, it's enough to know that you can live without one but having one can sometimes kill. That's why it's bad design.

If the human body were designed, it would be an incompetent designer who designed the appendix even if things were as you seem to think they are: that there is some minor health benefit to having an appendix (that people who've had appendectomies are missing out on some benefit).

Again, even if that were so, it's still bad design because it can kill you. The cost is disproportionate to the benefit.

Here's a good link on the history of appendicitis: http://www.innominatesociety.com/Articles/History%20of%20Appendicitis.htm

It was diagnosable by autopsy before there was a way to diagnose someone in time to consider surgery. Another reason we wouldn't have good prevalence numbers before modern surgery was that autopsies to determine cause of death from an unknown illness weren't routinely done.

[Paulhoff]

Can you cite a study that compared the health of individuals with and without appendixes?
Yes, when diseased ones are remove, people live, when not, they die.
Paul

:) :) :)

[Rrose Selavy]

On finding "abnormality " in organs - where they didn't exist - the cases of ptosis (organs slipping down) as a result of increased x ray exploration comes to mind:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=d_rFyCIJuEkC&pg=PA268&lpg=PA268&dq=unnecessary+surgery+organ+gravity&source=bl&ots=HaOORy3_AZ&sig=zdCNbftQHgROMIUxqaiwaxjDFWo&hl=en&ei=bOKaSrmmI9uMjAfyuqjBBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=unnecessary%20surgery%20organ%20gravity&f=false

Can anyone find any other sources for this phenomena other than the single Google book? I can seem to find anything else.

[Elizabeth I]

Aaah, mollusc evolution. A prof of mine used to give one lecture informally called "How to turn a lawnmower into a drag racer", showing how your basic snail got warped to become a squid. The lawnmower trundles along, being drip-fed fuel through a veritable capillary. When the ineffable decision was made to upgrade to high-speed hunter-killer, it was canted upright by 90 degrees and equipped with jet propulsion. But the drip feed was kept. Yep, your truck-size Architeuthis still has a garden snail-type radula to grind pieces of sperm whale into fine sludge, in order to force them through a gullet of a few mm radius. Through the middle of its brain.

Massively successful design in evolutionary terms, regardless.

"Architeuthis" is such a cool word.


The fertility years, they start too soon and end too late. I wish evolution would sort that, we dont need to get pregnant at 12 any more.

I have often thought that the ability to bear children at a young age, when you want to run around and have fun and learn things, is a pretty bad idea.
If you became fertile later in life, you might be more interested in settling down and paying attention to child-rearing.