Smokers are growing their own tobacco.

[Cainkane1]

To avoid the high price of tobacco related products some smokers have resorted to growing and curing their own tobacco. Why don't they get the hint and quit smoking?

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

I reckon it's some combination of stubborn and stupid that keeps them puffing away.

[HansMustermann]

You do know it causes actual physiological addiction, right?

[gtc]

I don't know if it is the same in the US but there is quite a big market for under the counter illegal tobacco in Australia known as 'chop chop (http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/177_11_021202/bittoun_021202.html)'. Some apparently smoke it because it is cheaper, others think that it is somehow healthier than legal tobacco.

[Cainkane1]

I don't know if it is the same in the US but there is quite a big market for under the counter illegal tobacco in Australia known as 'chop chop (http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/177_11_021202/bittoun_021202.html)'. Some apparently smoke it because it is cheaper, others think that it is somehow healthier than legal tobacco.
It might be healthier. Some of the additives in cigarets are as harmful as the tobacco itself.

[gtc]

It might be healthier. Some of the additives in cigarets are as harmful as the tobacco itself.

It might be but there is, obviously, no regulation of what goes into chop chop it could have any number of harmful additives.

[ChrisC]

I'm not about to defend the practice of smoking, but I'm all for gardening. If you're going to smoke, why not grow your own? Sounds like a good, practical hobby like growing other plants or brewing. Just make sure you keep your TMV ridden tobacco plants the hell away from my food plants. ;)

[FlamingMoe]

To avoid the high price of tobacco related products some smokers have resorted to growing and curing their own tobacco. Why don't they get the hint and quit smoking?
One could turn the question and ask legislators why they don't get the hint and stop piling tax upon tax on a disliked group of people.

[AJM8125]

One could turn the question and ask legislators why they don't get the hint and stop piling tax upon tax on a disliked group of people.

Heh.

[casebro]

I'm not about to defend the practice of smoking, but I'm all for gardening. If you're going to smoke, why not grow your own? Sounds like a good, practical hobby like growing other plants or brewing. Just make sure you keep your TMV ridden tobacco plants the hell away from my food plants. ;)

I'm all for growing your own.

It takes two kinds, they both grow on the side of the roads around here in Southern California. I guess they are from spitting chew.

The one is a broader leaf, it has the nicotine.

The other is "tree tobacco", it is more like a small sapling, and has no nicotine.

Shread and blend the two (the fact that there are two kinds does prove that Big Tobacco does adjust the nicotine levels) with 10% glycerine, to keep it lit, and 15% Maple syrup, to sweeten it. (Tobacco is the biggest user of maple syrup. Seems it's grown anywhere there are maple trees, but the consumer never hears about Pennsylvania Maple Syrup, which goes south to the cigarette mills.)

Anyhow, I don't smoke, never have. But I am in favor of d-i-y everything.

I don't know about the laws regarding taxes, whether you would supposedly owe tax on your own consumption. Or if growing your own is totally illegal, if for your own consumption?

Maybe a micro-brew style rebellion is on the horizon? Like my homebrew beer and wine, I'll bet you could make awesome varietals of tobacco.

[FlamingMoe]

Like my homebrew beer and wine, I'll bet you could make awesome varietals of tobacco.
Hell, you could bring back the flavored smokes that have been effectively banned by California's (I think it's Cali) settlement with manufacturers.

Vanilla cigarettes, citrus cigarettes, licorice cigarettes... call 'em "candy cigarettes" all you want, but they taste good. I want them back.

[theprestige]

One could turn the question and ask legislators why they don't get the hint and stop piling tax upon tax on a disliked group of people.
On could even turn the question all the way around and ask Cainkane1 why he doesn't get the hint and stop supporting anti-smoker policies...

[Minadin]

Hell, you could bring back the flavored smokes that have been effectively banned by California's (I think it's Cali) settlement with manufacturers.

Vanilla cigarettes, citrus cigarettes, licorice cigarettes... call 'em "candy cigarettes" all you want, but they taste good. I want them back.

Those have been discontinued across the USA when the FDA gained control (http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/pa07_sestak/090612_tobacco.shtml) over the tobbacco industry, finally.

This legislation prohibits the use of any constituent or additive that causes a cigarette or its smoke to have a characterizing flavor other than tobacco. The measure exempts menthol-flavored cigarettes, however, from this prohibition. The restriction would apply to such flavors as “Mandalay Lime,” “Warm Winter Toffee,” “Mocha Taboo,” and “Midnight Berry.”

[ImaginalDisc]

Those have been discontinued across the USA when the FDA gained control (http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/pa07_sestak/090612_tobacco.shtml) over the tobbacco industry, finally.

Flavoring alcoholic beverages, however, remains a lucrative business and a viable way to pay your college.

:boggled:

[KingMerv00]

Why don't they get the hint and quit smoking?

OMG! Why didn't they think of that? Spread the word!!!


Sorry I couldn't resist. :D

[FlamingMoe]

Flavoring alcoholic beverages, however, remains a lucrative business and a viable way to pay your college.

:boggled:
Well yes, if we decide we would like to imbibe intoxicating liquors, we should of course have to drink it in its natural state: pure ethyl alcohol. No mixers. No chasers. No variety.

Booze with flavor really :boggled: you?

:boggled:

[Epok]

To avoid the high price of tobacco related products some smokers have resorted to growing and curing their own tobacco. Why don't they get the hint and quit smoking?


Why are there so many people intent on passing a fascist law against smoking? They have already passed laws on smoking in public places. So why do you seem so intent of forcing your beliefs on others? I don't care if I get cancer from smoking. I don't plan on living forever. I'm a Hedonist and I'm gonna enjoy life to its fullest. And don't give me that spiel on how smoking can't be enjoyable for me. If its not enjoyable for you then you don't have to do it. Noone is forcing you to smoke.

[Silly Green Monkey]

Those who smoke in the air I must breathe are essentially forcing me to smoke. I can't choose to stop breathing.

Might be nice if instead of incinerating plant leaves, people after nicotine could use an inhaler device?

[autumn1971]

Epok, you do realize that "fascist" does not mean "anything which may inconvienience me in some way", do you not?
How about "needlessly Puritanical" instead?

[ChrisC]

Anyone reading this thread ever/currently grow their own tobacco? How'd it work out?

[ImaginalDisc]

Well yes, if we decide we would like to imbibe intoxicating liquors, we should of course have to drink it in its natural state: pure ethyl alcohol. No mixers. No chasers. No variety.

Booze with flavor really :boggled: you?

:boggled:

Alcohol is, like tobacco, much more dangerous than many illegal substances, yet I don't see any lobbies allegedly representing concerned mothers asking congress to ban creme de menthe because its sweet minty flavor appeals to kids, or Frangelico because it features a cute character on the bottle designed to lure children into Satan's embrace. Yet similar arguments were made about "Candy" cigarettes and Joe Camel. Are cigarettes especially evil, or are those marketing techniques only an cynical attempt to hook kids young when they're used for tobacco?

[Epok]

Those who smoke in the air I must breathe are essentially forcing me to smoke. I can't choose to stop breathing.

Might be nice if instead of incinerating plant leaves, people after nicotine could use an inhaler device?


How many times has that actually been a problem? Like I said in my post they have made it illegal to smoke in most public places. So the problem should be resolved right there. It seems like people wanna make it illegal to smoke in your own home and even in your own car. I know of a few college campuses where they will stop you from smoking in your own car. If I'm outside and I'm not smoking near anyone who isn't a smoker then it shouldn't be a problem. Its ridiculous how people still complain about others smoking. You don't hear people complaining about breathing gas emissions the same way people complain about smoking. And I'm sure thats much worse for your health.

Quote by autumn1971
Epok, you do realize that "fascist" does not mean "anything which may inconvienience me in some way", do you not?
How about "needlessly Puritanical" instead?

Yes I do realize that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
I mean Fascist because its trying to push a belief on others. But we can go with needlessly Puritanical also but I'll still use the term Fascist because it sounds like people are trying to push laws to ban smoking everywhere with a Totalitarian mentality.

[proudnonbbeliever]

Im pro-choice.

If an individual wants to ingest potentially harmful chemicals I should be able to.
:P
Smoking, drinking, recreational pharmaceuticals, all the same.

[FlamingMoe]

Yet similar arguments were made about "Candy" cigarettes and Joe Camel. Are cigarettes especially evil, or are those marketing techniques only an cynical attempt to hook kids young when they're used for tobacco?
Neither. Cigarettes are used by a despised minority and it's easier to turn them into pariahs than the entire drinking population.

[Mitchell314]

How many times has that actually been a problem? Like I said in my post they have made it illegal to smoke in most public places. So the problem should be resolved right there. It seems like people wanna make it illegal to smoke in your own home and even in your own car. I know of a few college campuses where they will stop you from smoking in your own car. If I'm outside and I'm not smoking near anyone who isn't a smoker then it shouldn't be a problem. Its ridiculous how people still complain about others smoking.

Illegal in most public places? There must be a lot of illegal smokers then, or there's a conflicting definition of 'most'. You do what you want to yourself. But you do not have the right to impose it on others who may not like it. Plain and simple.

[Ladewig]

Those have been discontinued across the USA when the FDA gained control (http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/pa07_sestak/090612_tobacco.shtml) over the tobbacco industry, finally.

So why are cigar manufacturers such Swisher Sweets allowed to make strawberry, grape, peach, and chocolate flavored cigars?

[Minadin]

I guess because they're not considered cigarettes? Or perhaps it's in the language in the bill that only bans it if it's a 'characterizing' flavor. I am not sure. Are you sure they are still making them?

You won't be seeing the 'Kiwi Lime Sunday' or 'Orange Burst' flavored cigarettes at the 7-11 any more, though.

[Ladewig]

I guess because they're not considered cigarettes? Or perhaps it's in the language in the bill that only bans it if it's a 'characterizing' flavor. I am not sure. Are you sure they are still making them?

Yes, I went to the Swisher Sweet site and saw that these are still being offered for sale.

My question is why does the law's language refer only to cigarettes?

[casebro]

I don't know about different areas, but a few years ago pipe tobacco was non-taxed. So a couple guys I knew bought pipe tobacco and roller their own cigarettes. I'm not sure if that loop hole was changed. I think the latest spate of taxes extended to cigars, but I'm not sure about pipe tobacco. It's small part of the market.

[Minadin]

I don't know about different areas, but a few years ago pipe tobacco was non-taxed. So a couple guys I knew bought pipe tobacco and roller their own cigarettes. I'm not sure if that loop hole was changed. I think the latest spate of taxes extended to cigars, but I'm not sure about pipe tobacco. It's small part of the market.

I did that in college. I was a founding member of a student-run organization called F.A.T.A.L. (the Fine Alcohol and Tobacco Association of Lawrence)

[Epok]

Illegal in most public places? There must be a lot of illegal smokers then, or there's a conflicting definition of 'most'. You do what you want to yourself. But you do not have the right to impose it on others who may not like it. Plain and simple.


I agree with that. I'm just saying it should work both ways because from the OP and some responses it seems like a few people are for laws that force people to quit smoking.

[Beanbag]

Why does this surprise you? It's a plant. All you have to do (theoretically) is plant the seeds, water, and tend. About the only reason tobacco diseases became prevalent is due to the wide-spread monoculture growth practices. And unlike pot, growing tobacco for your own use is legal. Considering the level of technology I've seen at the local smoke (read that "head") shoppe for "indoor hydroponics," it shouldn't be any more of a challenge to grow a few healthy tobacco plants in, say, a closet or garage. The literature is available, paid for mostly by state and federal programs back when smoking was fashionable (and profitable). A LOT of university research went into tobacco production. I sorta look at it like microbrewing: SOMEBODY's gonna take up the hobby and try their own local variant.

Beanbag

[LTC8K6]

Soon you won't be able to smoke tobacco anywhere at all, let alone grow it...

[arthwollipot]

Illegal in most public places? There must be a lot of illegal smokers then, or there's a conflicting definition of 'most'. You do what you want to yourself. But you do not have the right to impose it on others who may not like it. Plain and simple."Public places" has a specific definition where anti-smoking legislation is concerned. It doesn't (usually) refer to outdoor spaces like parks and gardens, but only to indoor public areas like restaurants, hotels, clubs, bars, etc. Australia has pretty strict anti-smoking legislation nationwide, and the only indoor place that you are allowed to smoke is your own home.

[HansMustermann]

One could turn the question and ask legislators why they don't get the hint and stop piling tax upon tax on a disliked group of people.

Pretty much because it's an easy tax to justify. It's for your health, see? ;)

Hike the tax on anything else and you'd see a lot of grumbling. But smokers are the kind of kid that'll give you their lunch money quietly if you just mention it's for their own good.

IIRC a politician here actually went on record after the last tax hike on cigarettes -- which was publicly justified as doing something for the public good, and maybe now they'll get the hint and quit -- actually caused a bunch of people to quit instead of bringing in extra tax money, saying something to the effect of, "crap, we didn't think they'd actually quit, now we'll have to tax something else." Not the exact words, but the general gist of it. Kinda removed any doubt as to what the actual purpose of that tax hike was.

[FlamingMoe]

Pretty much because it's an easy tax to justify. It's for your health, see? ;)
You've already made the point, but if it was really our health they were concerned about they'd just ban it outright.

Frickin' lying sacks of crap.

[arthwollipot]

No, they're concerned about your freedoms as well. That's why they don't just ban the stuff.

[Policenaut]

Growing your own tobacco? I guess it's better than making your own meth.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32542373/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

[HansMustermann]

You've already made the point, but if it was really our health they were concerned about they'd just ban it outright.

Frickin' lying sacks of crap.

Bingo. I was saying it's an easy justification for a tax hike, not that they actually care about your health :p

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

Did you ever notice smokers get upset if you bend over and fart directly in their faces?

[ponderingturtle]

Those who smoke in the air I must breathe are essentially forcing me to smoke. I can't choose to stop breathing.

Might be nice if instead of incinerating plant leaves, people after nicotine could use an inhaler device?

Or just chew the stuff.

[ponderingturtle]

So why are cigar manufacturers such Swisher Sweets allowed to make strawberry, grape, peach, and chocolate flavored cigars?

They no longer will be able too. All the pot heads are going to be upset.

[Ladewig]

They no longer will be able to.

But the language of the bill refers only to cigarettes, why are you saying that cigar manufacturers will no longer be able to make these flavored cigars?

[Marquis de Carabas]

Cigar makers will still be able to make flavored cigars. In fact, some of the current flavored cigarettes are being remade as cigars so they can continue to sell them. This is the case, I know, for Djarum cloves. And the cigar versions suck.

[FlamingMoe]

No, they're concerned about your freedoms as well. That's why they don't just ban the stuff.
Oh, well that must be why they haven't also banned cocaine, marijuana, heroin, meth... oh wait.

[Minadin]

Did you ever notice smokers get upset if you bend over and fart directly in their faces?

I actually hadn't noticed.

I know smoking is said to stunt growth, but exactly how short are the smokers in your area?

[Epok]

There is no evidence to back up the statement that it stunts your growth. I think thats one of the scare tactics they use on schoolchildren to turn them away from smoking. And on the comment of Did you ever notice smokers get upset if you bend over and fart directly in their faces? by Sir Robin Goodfellow is a ridiculous argument. No one is saying that blowing smoke in someone's face isn't rude or wrong. But smoking is illegal in most public buildings even some outside spots. If its outside then the smoke will dissipate rather quickly. So why are people still complaining about it? There is not really any harm being done to you health-wise. I think its just an excuse for non-smokers to complain.

Just to be silly I'd like to point out that smoking makes me less vulnerable to most smells so farting in my face isn't gonna bother me as much as it will bother you Mwahahaha :p

[HansMustermann]

I guess it's like that scare story that you'll go blind if you, you know, play with yourself. I think I had disproved that experimentally by the time I got out of teenage years. Quite thoroughly, I might add :p

[Cainkane1]

I guess it's like that scare story that you'll go blind if you, you know, play with yourself. I think I had disproved that experimentally by the time I got out of teenage years. Quite thoroughly, I might add :p
Me too.

[Ferguson]

You do what you want to yourself. But you do not have the right to impose it on others who may not like it. Plain and simple.

Does this also apply to car drivers? Why do they have the right to force car exhaust down my throat?

[Mitchell314]

Does this also apply to car drivers? Why do they have the right to force car exhaust down my throat?

I'll humor the poor comparison.

No, that would kill you. As a pedestrian, (1) you generally go closer to smokers than the tail pipes of a car (unless you like being run over), (2) statistically, smokers usually walk (or stand/sit) slower than most cars go, perhaps on an order of magnitude slower and thus cause smoke to dissipate in a local region, while that's not true for cars. While car emissions do leave much to be desired - although they have made much improvement and there are some pretty strict regulations on them - the comparison between that and smoking is tenuous.

[Ferguson]

I'll humor the poor comparison.

No, that would kill you. As a pedestrian, (1) you generally go closer to smokers than the tail pipes of a car (unless you like being run over), (2) statistically, smokers usually walk (or stand/sit) slower than most cars go, perhaps on an order of magnitude slower and thus cause smoke to dissipate in a local region, while that's not true for cars. While car emissions do leave much to be desired - although they have made much improvement and there are some pretty strict regulations on them - the comparison between that and smoking is tenuous.

Statistically, pedestrians don't generally walk on highways, as a pedestrian, most cars I walk by are sitting stationary in traffic, with dozens of cars in front of and behind them. If a light turns green, yes some will roll forward, perhaps up to 15-25 mph before stopping at another light, but I have to breathe the fuel smell, whether I want to or not. I generally don't hunt out the one smoker standing outside a bus stop to huff his smoke before it dissipates into the sky, but I have no choice but to walk by dozens or hundreds of exhaust belching vehicles if I want to use a public sidewalk.

[Mitchell314]

Statistically, pedestrians don't generally walk on highways, as a pedestrian, most cars I walk by are sitting stationary in traffic, with dozens of cars in front of and behind them. If a light turns green, yes some will roll forward, perhaps up to 15-25 mph before stopping at another light, but I have to breathe the fuel smell, whether I want to or not. I generally don't hunt out the one smoker standing outside a bus stop to huff his smoke before it dissipates into the sky, but I have no choice but to walk by dozens or hundreds of exhaust belching vehicles if I want to use a public sidewalk.

Agreed. If the fuel smell is stronger than than the smell of smokers taking up a sidewalk, then there's a problem. Though my problem is with the smoker(s) standing on the sidewalk, and there is no way around the reeking cloud, and that has nothing to do with cars, except for the fact that they're half the reason why you can't conveniently side step the situation.

But if you think your gotcha point (if it's even worthy of that) has merit, then have at yourself. I could very well counter that I should be able to poke people on the streets with sticks, if I cared for such trivial nonsense.

[HansMustermann]

You know, while we're at it, we should be able to poke with sticks:

- women who stink like they've been dunked in a barrel of cheap perfume or deodorant. I swear some can stink up a whole bus or train car

- people reeking of perspiration (I'm closer to them than to those tail pipes after all.) Yes, those jogging too.

- people whose dogs crap on the sidewalk. Even if they pick it up and dump it in a garbage bin, now both the spot and the bin stink of dog crap.

- people with ipods and whatnot set too loud. Sorry, if I can hear the songs from more than 1m, **** you. That goes for people with loud car stereos too. I can't turn off my hearing any more than you can turn off your sense of smell, you know.

- people with loud cars or motorcycles, especially if they modded the muffler so their 1.1 litre Peugeot farter sounds like a jackhammer. (Sorry, junior, regardless of what the nice conman may have told you, it does not add another 20 BHP.)

- people having loud conversations in public

- doubly so the idiots who scream into their cell phones, as if it improved reception somehow

- idiots who go catatonic at the supermarket, blocking a whole aisle or access to the shopping cart

Etc, etc, etc.

But then I realize that, sadly, life doesn't revolve only around what _I_ like, and life in society means giving each other some leaway. They tollerate some stuff I do, and I tollerate some stuff they do.

If that's not the case with you, then that's your shortcoming, not the smokers'. Sad to break it to you, but the world doesn't revolve around you. If you can't live in society, **** off and live in a cave for all I care, but kindly stop acting as if everyone should change whatever they're doing to suit your ideas.

[Mitchell314]

Why does somebody's right to smoke trump others' rights to breath clean air? Does the world revolve around them?

For those of you who like bad analogies:
Why isn't it somebody's right to bash other people with sticks?

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

There's no harm being done to you physically if someone farts in your face. Why would anyone get upset about it?

[HansMustermann]

Why does somebody's right to smoke trump others' rights to breath clean air? Does the world revolve around them?

Why does someone's "right" to dunk herself in bad perfume trump _my_ "right" to breathe clean air? Why does someone's "right" to have a dog trump _my_ "right" to breathe clean air?

For those of you who like bad analogies:

Oh, I see, the exact same issue, "breathing clean air", is a bad analogy when it's someone else's problem instead of yours. Self-centered much?

[Mitchell314]

Why does someone's "right" to dunk herself in bad perfume trump _my_ "right" to breathe clean air? Why does someone's "right" to have a dog trump _my_ "right" to breathe clean air?



Oh, I see, the exact same issue, "breathing clean air", is a bad analogy when it's someone else's problem instead of yours. Self-centered much?

Good job on evading the question.

[Epok]

Why does somebody's right to smoke trump others' rights to breath clean air? Does the world revolve around them?

There is plenty of clean air to go around, and if you pass a group of smokers on the sidewalk........then duck.

[Epok]

There's no harm being done to you physically if someone farts in your face. Why would anyone get upset about it?

There is not much harm done to you by cigarette smoke so why get upset about it?

[Mitchell314]

There is plenty of clean air to go around, and if you pass a group of smokers on the sidewalk........then duck.

Duck, what does that mean? Smoke is neither aesthetically pleasing nor beneficiary or neutral to ones health. If they are by themselves and there's a great big open space to go around, fine. But side walks have the nasty habit of being bounded by cars moving on one side and walls/buildings on another. Since most people can't walk through walls, and walking in line with moving cars will drop your life expectancy much quicker that breathing smoke, there may often be no alternative.

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

Actually, cigarette smoke gives me a terrible headache. I know smokers don't give a damn about me, so I've decided not to give a damn about them either. If someone smokes around me, especially if it is somewhere where it is specifically forbidden, I want to punch them until they stop moving. And a lot of the smokers I see don't seem to give a crap about smoking where it is not allowed.

[Rat]

...I know smokers don't give a damn about me, so I've decided not to give a damn about them either....
Have you really met all of us? Or are you, in fact, generalizing about a group from a fairly small and biased sample?

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

Yes. I'm talking about the ones I've met, including relatives who have since quit. Their actions when they know I can't tolerate smoke indicate to me that they don't give a damn if it makes me sick. I've had customers come into work (where smoking is prohibited) and fire up their smokes beside me while I'm changing a fuel filter. They know they're not supposed to smoke inside, but they don't care, their idiotic habit is more important than my personal safety. I can remember telling my parents as a child that I couldn't breathe in the car and the smoke gave me a headache, and they were unimpressed. Just because your tobacco habit is making your child sick is no reason to stop, or even alter your habits. Even after my parents quit smoking, I was shocked at how many visitors they had that would just light up without even asking. Now that I have my own house, I can say that if someone lit up a cigarette in my home, I'd rip the damn thing out of their hand and put it out on their eyeball.

Now, I don't care if people want to smoke outside, or in their own homes. I hold my breath and walk through it. But lots of smokers I see don't seem to care about who they make sick with their nonsensical habit.

I cannot even describe the headache I get from tobacco smoke. Even thinking about it makes me angry.

[Rat]

I really don't know any smokers who would behave like that. I wouldn't smoke in someone else's house without asking, and I wouldn't ask unless I knew they were smokers. In fact I generally don't ask, and just ask whether I should smoke out front or out back. It seems to be that you're confusing the idiots, who smoke when they shouldn't, with all smokers, since you don't see the courteous smokers at all in most circumstances.

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

Okay, well, let me explain. I know a couple guys at work who are great people, who also smoke. They wouldn't smoke in my house or vehicle. But, one night I was working overtime, and I felt a little off. I wasn't sure why, but I was sure I could smell smoke. I thought I was all alone in the building, so I thought it was my imagination. Besides, smoking at work is prohibited (and illegal), so who could be smoking? Well, when it was time to go home, I went upstairs to shut the lights off, and there these two were, sitting in the coffee room, smoking. I flipped out on them, because by now I had a miserable headache, and my temper was short. They were shocked that I was so angry. They knew I was downstairs working (they had to have heard me down there), and in their minds it was somehow okay to smoke because it was after five. These are people who would swear that they are courteous smokers (they have told me so), and they didn't care about workplace rules, the law, or the health of a co-worker. Smoking without being inconvenienced was more important. Smokers (that I have met, anyway) don't even realise how much they bother others. They seem to be completely oblivious.

I can remember going to my grandmother's house for Christmas years ago, after my parents had quit smoking. It was like torture, because there was only one smoker left in the family, but she just kept right on smoking in a house filled with non-smokers. But she was courteous, because she blew the smoke away from you, and would move the ashtray to the other side of the table. I can remember begging my parents to take me home because my head hurt so much I couldn't stand up anymore. Once, the pain was so bad that when I got home, I vomited immediately, and showered for an hour, trying to wash the stink of smoke off of me. I took my clothes outside and threw them away, because I couldn't chance smelling that odour and getting sick again. I cannot describe how terrible I feel when I am exposed to tobacco smoke. Before smoking was banned in restaurants, I could not enjoy a meal because it meant that the night was shot, I'd have to shower and try to sleep because of an intense headache. Smokers cannot relate.

[arthwollipot]

Actually, cigarette smoke gives me a terrible headache. I know smokers don't give a damn about me, so I've decided not to give a damn about them either. If someone smokes around me, especially if it is somewhere where it is specifically forbidden, I want to punch them until they stop moving. And a lot of the smokers I see don't seem to give a crap about smoking where it is not allowed.When I was a smoker (I'm not any more), I was very careful about where I smoked. I'd carefully put a considerable distance between me and any group of people. I wouldn't smoke in locations where the smoke would be taken into building air conditioning. And I always disposed of my butts in an appropriate receptacle instead of just throwing it on the ground. Damn, that annoyed me. If there was no appropriate receptacle, I'd carry it around in my cigarette case until I found one.

[fullflavormenthol]

I don't smoke in public, when I do occasionally smoke. Nevertheless anti-smokers get on my freakin nerves, which I will illustrate with two incidents.

Incident 1; When I was in college for undergrad work I lived in the residence halls. 50 ft away from the entrance was a gazebo set aside for smokers, but that didn't stop the occasional idiot from coming out there and coughing and complaining. So one night at about 1 am I get off work and go out to that area to have a smoke, and this one woman looks at me and says, "I'm going to have to kick someone's ***", and then proceeded to tell me I would have to go across the street to smoke.

So I did what any other reasonable person would have done. I sat on the bench near the gazebo and exhaled and let the wind carry it right towards her. She can have all the fresh air she wanted, the damn college was 3 square miles of it. I simply wanted to have a damn smoke in a 10x10 ft area set aside for that purpose, and to make sure no one would catch a stray wif of smoke.

Needless to say she left with her friends...oh and this is the funny part...who were actually smoking right next to her. I guess her "cigarette allergy" only activates when more than four people are smoking. They walked to a car in the darker section of the parking lot, and from the car an orange light would appear (similar to that of a cherry on a cigarette) and being down wind of their car I began to notice that the air took on a familiar smell that I remember from Phish concerts.

Incident 2; I had since moved on to the occasional smoke, and so when I was accepted to graduate school I went out on the balcony of my apartment (on the top floor/third story) with a beer in my hand and sat down for a cigarette. By now I wasn't living on campus anymore mind you, but some dude who was walking his dog started the fake coughing, I know it was fake because he was not coughing the whole time I had been smoking. It was only upon hearing the sound of a beer can opening that he looked up and suddenly developed his allergy, and then proceeded to shout up to me about how he could die from even a little bit of cigarette smoke.

THE POINT> I don't smoke in places that would expose non-smokers to my smoking, and for that reason I get a little angry at the people who want to take their "right" to clean air as a licensee to forbid me from using a tobacco product in my own space.

[Vim Razz]

Not mentioned yet -- and probably something people aren't aware of if you're not in the habbit of rolling your own smokes -- is that the major tobacco companaies took advantage of the economic crunch last winter to consolidate control over smaller companies and eliminate low-cost competition.

In particular, they knocked out nearly the entire roll-your-own tobacco industry. 8 months ago you could pick up a variety of mid/high end tobaccos and roll your own smokes for pennies campared to pre-rolled cigarettes. Nearly all the companies which used to provide roll-your own tobacco are now gone in the US (even in specialized tobacco shops) and what's left now costs $8-$10 per ounce (making it more expensive then pre-roll).

This means roll-your-own smokers now stuck with pre-roll (like myself) are now spending about five or ten times what we used to spend on smokes -- typicaly for much lower quality tobacco cigaretes then we've been in the habit of smoking. Which really sucks.

At this point, growing my own would be seriously tempting if I had a place to do it.

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

When I was a smoker (I'm not any more), I was very careful about where I smoked. I'd carefully put a considerable distance between me and any group of people. I wouldn't smoke in locations where the smoke would be taken into building air conditioning. And I always disposed of my butts in an appropriate receptacle instead of just throwing it on the ground. Damn, that annoyed me. If there was no appropriate receptacle, I'd carry it around in my cigarette case until I found one.


I think most smokers simply do not realise how much their habit can bother non-smokers. My co-workers were shocked that I was bothered by their smoking, because they felt that since they were twenty metres away, there was no way that it could bother me. I recall several times where someone would enter the ATM vestibule at the bank and ignore the big no smoking sign, because they were "only in there for a minute". My aunt would have sworn she was a courteous smoker, because she always used an ashtray in other people's homes, and she never would have stubbed out her smoke on someone's floor or table, and if she borrowed someone's vehicle, she'd bring her own ashtray, so she wouldn't get any butts in the vehicle's ashtray. She'd even open a window a little while she drove, so you wouldn't even be able to tell she'd been smoking.

[casebro]

At this point, growing my own would be seriously tempting if I had a place to do it.

Learn what it looks like, and harvest it wild, or the volunteer plants roadside. One vacant patch/island near the road near me has a veritable plantation of the stuff.

[Epok]

I don't smoke in public, when I do occasionally smoke. Nevertheless anti-smokers get on my freakin nerves, which I will illustrate with two incidents.

Incident 1; When I was in college for undergrad work I lived in the residence halls. 50 ft away from the entrance was a gazebo set aside for smokers, but that didn't stop the occasional idiot from coming out there and coughing and complaining. So one night at about 1 am I get off work and go out to that area to have a smoke, and this one woman looks at me and says, "I'm going to have to kick someone's ***", and then proceeded to tell me I would have to go across the street to smoke.

So I did what any other reasonable person would have done. I sat on the bench near the gazebo and exhaled and let the wind carry it right towards her. She can have all the fresh air she wanted, the damn college was 3 square miles of it. I simply wanted to have a damn smoke in a 10x10 ft area set aside for that purpose, and to make sure no one would catch a stray wif of smoke.

Needless to say she left with her friends...oh and this is the funny part...who were actually smoking right next to her. I guess her "cigarette allergy" only activates when more than four people are smoking. They walked to a car in the darker section of the parking lot, and from the car an orange light would appear (similar to that of a cherry on a cigarette) and being down wind of their car I began to notice that the air took on a familiar smell that I remember from Phish concerts.

Incident 2; I had since moved on to the occasional smoke, and so when I was accepted to graduate school I went out on the balcony of my apartment (on the top floor/third story) with a beer in my hand and sat down for a cigarette. By now I wasn't living on campus anymore mind you, but some dude who was walking his dog started the fake coughing, I know it was fake because he was not coughing the whole time I had been smoking. It was only upon hearing the sound of a beer can opening that he looked up and suddenly developed his allergy, and then proceeded to shout up to me about how he could die from even a little bit of cigarette smoke.

THE POINT> I don't smoke in places that would expose non-smokers to my smoking, and for that reason I get a little angry at the people who want to take their "right" to clean air as a licensee to forbid me from using a tobacco product in my own space.


That's my beef as well. The fake coughing and people who just wanna complain. And a lot of people who quit smoking feel compelled to try to talk you into quitting. Its that holier than thou attitude that gives me a headache and makes me wanna puke. So should I be able to pass a law against that then? I mean, one person's discomfort should affect the lives of many right?

[Mitchell314]

As Methol said, if you are smoking in a designated place that is out of the way, like a Gazebo, then that's fine. I have no problem with those who take the effort to not impose their habit on others. But there seems to be a front of ignorance of some posts here about the effects that second hand smoke can have on some people. Some are more sensitive than others; and some are provoked with a response that may not be visible to you, or at least at the time of passing. And to get indignant, and accuse those of being self centered for pointing out the negative effects on non-smokers seems to me to be a sign of a coping mechanism so as to not feel guilty. And a sign of selfishness and unwillingness to reevaluate how the effects of the habit impact others who may not be as resilient as themselves. Again, I'm not saying this is of all smokers, or even most. Just the ones that can't be bothered to take the extra thirty seconds of their life to find a place further away than the minimum distance; like the front door.

[fullflavormenthol]

I don't fault non-smokers for not wanting to be around smoke, and for the most part I find that people really don't care if they can clearly see that you are trying to keep it away from them. When I quit, still allowing myself to have a smoke once in awhile, I became more sensitive to them. Even before if I were to smoke in public I would do so away from the entrance to buildings, generally being that scary person in the shadows that you really couldn't see smoking. That was a little funny to me, the people that I actually knew getting nervous because they couldn't tell who I was, and it was similar to a bad crime movie.

But...I completely understand the non-smoker. I was at an old restaurant in a small town in Kansas, and I had to leave the place because some guy started smoking and the smell was so strong that it made me sick. (Believe it or not as a person that only smokes occasionally the smell of people smoking actually does bother me...it is a weird contradiction)

I was at an Applebees in Missouri, and they had the smoking section right next to the non-smoking section. So while I was eating several people lit up and it was disgusting to me. Given that their table was right next to mine, because the divide was a wall with an opening; which the tables were right against.

As long as things don't get ridiculous, I don't see a problem with restricting smoking in most public places. (I will note that bars are my exception, not because I smoke in them anymore; but because upon seeing people taking that many shots at once I laugh at their concern about lung cancer...the liver is what I would be concerned about.) Still I really do keep away from non-smokers.

I will agree that I personally get really irritated at those smokers that congregate at the entrance to a building. I really hated taking the business classes at my college, because so many smokers and nursing students(WTF?) would smoke right up against the door. Many people I knew didn't care about the 2 to 3 people at other buildings, but you get 10+ smokers (conservative estimate) at an entrance and it really is a problem.

That and the disposal of cigarettes. Man that really gets to me. Stomping it out on the ground is fine, rain will wash that away for the most part, but at least place it in a trash can after. I have seen...far too often...smokers throw a cigarette in the grass when standing right next to a cigarette disposal.

Here is a story about that. I started out at a junior college before going to the University, and while living in the dorms this one drinker would invite his friends over and they would smoke in his room and throw the butts out the window. They would often go outside and throw the butts in the grass. So we got a notice from the school that everyone in the house (the dorms were housing style with six rooms per house) would be fined $500 a piece if the cigarettes were not picked up. So me and one of my friends went out and cleaned everything, which sucked because we actually used the proper disposal. So as you can imagine I got more than a little p***** when this smoker looked at me, flicked his cigarette into the grass and said, "Opps" sarcastically as he was standing right next to a smokers station. Oh and the fact that they would also lift up the lid and throw garbage into it (which led to fires) all the damn time.

So even though I do smoke at times I consider myself in the middle. Most people are non-smokers, they are cool. Anti-smokers are the people that complain even about inhalers and would get mad if they saw me using nicotine gum in class (when I was quitting). Many smokers are aware of the situation and will go out of their way to not expose people to smoke, but there are also bad ones who don't care and consider it their "right" also.

I look at it like drinking. I can drink all I want, but I don't have a right to get up in someone's face and make them smell it on me. From my experience most people will not say a damn thing if they are exposed to a little smoke if they know you are actually trying to be out of the way.

[Beanbag]

For me, there's just something exceptionally pungent about cigarette smoke. Cigar and pipe tobacco smoke just doesn't impact me the same way. I just woke up this morning after doing a bar-band video shoot in a small club in downtown Fort Worth. I have a screaming headache, not unlike a bad hangover, which I can't attribute to anything other than being immersed in second-hand tobacco smoke from 7:30 PM to 2:30 AM (even if it was shot in a bar, I'm a non-drinker). It might partly be due to the DJ playing the house music between sets at the above-painful threshold. Some of the band members I was there to tape were laughing because I wore my unplugged over-the-ear headphones between sets.

I'm deliberately putting off opening the camcorder case because I know there will be a blast of nicotine-stained air that will come out of it (I've done this sort of thing many times, and almost always wonder on the following morning why I did it again -- the music, right, the music).

Beanbag

[Epok]

I don't fault non-smokers for not wanting to be around smoke, and for the most part I find that people really don't care if they can clearly see that you are trying to keep it away from them. When I quit, still allowing myself to have a smoke once in awhile, I became more sensitive to them. Even before if I were to smoke in public I would do so away from the entrance to buildings, generally being that scary person in the shadows that you really couldn't see smoking. That was a little funny to me, the people that I actually knew getting nervous because they couldn't tell who I was, and it was similar to a bad crime movie.

But...I completely understand the non-smoker. I was at an old restaurant in a small town in Kansas, and I had to leave the place because some guy started smoking and the smell was so strong that it made me sick. (Believe it or not as a person that only smokes occasionally the smell of people smoking actually does bother me...it is a weird contradiction)

I was at an Applebees in Missouri, and they had the smoking section right next to the non-smoking section. So while I was eating several people lit up and it was disgusting to me. Given that their table was right next to mine, because the divide was a wall with an opening; which the tables were right against.

As long as things don't get ridiculous, I don't see a problem with restricting smoking in most public places. (I will note that bars are my exception, not because I smoke in them anymore; but because upon seeing people taking that many shots at once I laugh at their concern about lung cancer...the liver is what I would be concerned about.) Still I really do keep away from non-smokers.

I will agree that I personally get really irritated at those smokers that congregate at the entrance to a building. I really hated taking the business classes at my college, because so many smokers and nursing students(WTF?) would smoke right up against the door. Many people I knew didn't care about the 2 to 3 people at other buildings, but you get 10+ smokers (conservative estimate) at an entrance and it really is a problem.

That and the disposal of cigarettes. Man that really gets to me. Stomping it out on the ground is fine, rain will wash that away for the most part, but at least place it in a trash can after. I have seen...far too often...smokers throw a cigarette in the grass when standing right next to a cigarette disposal.

Here is a story about that. I started out at a junior college before going to the University, and while living in the dorms this one drinker would invite his friends over and they would smoke in his room and throw the butts out the window. They would often go outside and throw the butts in the grass. So we got a notice from the school that everyone in the house (the dorms were housing style with six rooms per house) would be fined $500 a piece if the cigarettes were not picked up. So me and one of my friends went out and cleaned everything, which sucked because we actually used the proper disposal. So as you can imagine I got more than a little p***** when this smoker looked at me, flicked his cigarette into the grass and said, "Opps" sarcastically as he was standing right next to a smokers station. Oh and the fact that they would also lift up the lid and throw garbage into it (which led to fires) all the damn time.

So even though I do smoke at times I consider myself in the middle. Most people are non-smokers, they are cool. Anti-smokers are the people that complain even about inhalers and would get mad if they saw me using nicotine gum in class (when I was quitting). Many smokers are aware of the situation and will go out of their way to not expose people to smoke, but there are also bad ones who don't care and consider it their "right" also.

I look at it like drinking. I can drink all I want, but I don't have a right to get up in someone's face and make them smell it on me. From my experience most people will not say a damn thing if they are exposed to a little smoke if they know you are actually trying to be out of the way.

Sorry I haven't figured out how to separate quotes so I can comment on a specific point but I agree with a lot of what you are saying. If you smoke then show respect for the non-smokers but I get so tired of people who quit smoking trying to BS their way into it. Are we supposed to have some kinda Harrison Bergeron type of government? If you gotta handicap then don't hold others back.