Debunker Strikes Back: The Alex Jones Deception

[Brainster]

Some of the later videos in this series contain profanity, although I don't recall any in the initial portion. But beware, this may be NSFW:

TzHtUrQyLjc

Former JREF member Troy from WV has put together a video documentary on Alex Jones that is quite entertaining and devastating to old leatherlungs. You can see additional parts of the video (there are 13 in all) at his YouTube site (http://www.youtube.com/user/MrAlexjonesdeception).

My take? Troy did an excellent production job on this. I've watched the first three parts so far, which mainly concern Alex railing against fluoride while his dentist father offers fluoride treatments to his patients, the Sean Fitzgerald murder case and the Michelle Malkin/Alex Jones confrontation at the Denver Mint. While nobody would consider Troy an objective person about Alex (he refers to Jones as a "raving lunatic"), I haven't seen anything that seems unfair, and so far none of the wince-worthy moments that sometimes appear in Troy's phone call videos.

ETA: Relistened to the first part and there is no profanity there, but there certainly is in later segments.

[Bosozoku]

I watched the first two YouTube videos, and that's about all I could take.

The narrator's insistence on saying "troofers" comes across as incredibly awkward, especially when he is trying level legitimate criticism at Jones.

Let me preface this next point by saying that I am no fan of Alex Jones. In fact, I think I can say with certainty that I disagree with all of his core beliefs. However, it is incredibly unfair to imply that he had any role whatsoever in the Sean Fitzpatrick tragedy. It's as spurious a claim as blaming the cereal he ate for breakfast that morning.

What point was he making by exposing the shocking fact that Alex Jones' dad uses fluoride? How do we know that Alex Jones doesn't disagree vehemently with what his father does?

This video reaches Truth Movement-esque levels of using logical fallacy to make its arguments.

[Brainster]

If one of the mods could change my OP to reflect that Troy is a former JREF Forum member not a former JREF member, I would sure appreciate it.

[Walter Ego]

I watched the first two YouTube videos, and that's about all I could take.

The narrator's insistence on saying "troofers" comes across as incredibly awkward, especially when he is trying level legitimate criticism at Jones.

Let me preface this next point by saying that I am no fan of Alex Jones. In fact, I think I can say with certainty that I disagree with all of his core beliefs. However, it is incredibly unfair to imply that he had any role whatsoever in the Sean Fitzpatrick tragedy. It's as spurious a claim as blaming the cereal he ate for breakfast that morning.

What point was he making by exposing the shocking fact that Alex Jones' dad uses fluoride? How do we know that Alex Jones doesn't disagree vehemently with what his father does?

This video reaches Truth Movement-esque levels of using logical fallacy to make its arguments.

Troy wrote me a while back asking if he could use parts of my Sean Fitzpatrick video in his upcoming epic. I did grant him permission but in my video I avoided editorializing. (You can the original video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tmLZRFXQ48).)

Troy's effort is hit or miss judging by what I've watched so far. Troy might have been more effective using a less (dare I say Jones'-like?) hyperbolic style. A more sober approach might have worked better.

Your opinion of Troy's video is probably predetermined on your existing opinion of Troy and/or Jones. I don't think any minds will be changed either way by what I've viewed up to this point.

[Edx]

Some parts of the video are awesome a couple of parts are hit and miss.over all a good job. would be good for more videos of this kind. certianly not for lack of material!

[zaphod2016]

A few points:

1.) I agree with Walter Ego when he says:

Troy's effort is hit or miss judging by what I've watched so far. Troy might have been more effective using a less (dare I say Jones'-like?) hyperbolic style. A more sober approach might have worked better.

2.) The pacing is a bit slow; less montage, more meat-and-potatoes please.

3.) The documentary buries the best stuff in the later chapters, which is a shame. The first "evidence" against Jones is that his father, a dentist, does fluoride treatments. What does that prove, exactly? Ben Franklin's son fought for the British; would anyone claim Ben was really a red coat?

Had the director interviewed Dr. Jones, and first established that he agreed with his son's view on fluoride, then this hypocrisy would be damning. Contrarily, if Dr. Jones said these fluoride theories were junk, that would be excellent material also. As-is, this comes across as "ambush journalism", against a family member, no less.

Brainster: is this the director's YouTube account? I'd like to contact him. I'd like to try an edit myself, but I'd like permission first.

[Brainster]

A few points:

1.) I agree with Walter Ego when he says:



2.) The pacing is a bit slow; less montage, more meat-and-potatoes please.

3.) The documentary buries the best stuff in the later chapters, which is a shame. The first "evidence" against Jones is that his father, a dentist, does fluoride treatments. What does that prove, exactly? Ben Franklin's son fought for the British; would anyone claim Ben was really a red coat?

Had the director interviewed Dr. Jones, and first established that he agreed with his son's view on fluoride, then this hypocrisy would be damning. Contrarily, if Dr. Jones said these fluoride theories were junk, that would be excellent material also. As-is, this comes across as "ambush journalism", against a family member, no less.

Brainster: is this the director's YouTube account? I'd like to contact him. I'd like to try an edit myself, but I'd like permission first.

Yes, that's his YT account. So far I've seen valid criticisms of the video here.

[zaphod2016]

A question to fellow viewers: what were the best (most convincing) sections of this video series?

My picks:

- The "Alive" Hijackers

- The FEMA Camps

- Mike the EMT

- Steel-frame buildings collapsing from fire

- The Unsecured Coins RFID hoax (my fav- ten bonus points for the Magnum PI theme :cool:)

- The Y2K Broadcast

Your thoughts?

[Brainster]

A question to fellow viewers: what were the best (most convincing) sections of this video series?

My picks:

- The "Alive" Hijackers

- The FEMA Camps

- Mike the EMT

- Steel-frame buildings collapsing from fire

- The Unsecured Coins RFID hoax (my fav- ten bonus points for the Magnum PI theme :cool:)

- The Y2K Broadcast

Your thoughts?

I can appreciate that conservatives would probably like it better than liberals, but that section #3 on Michelle Malkin versus Alex was particularly good. Regardless of politics, you can see that Alex was trying to stir up the crowd against Malkin, who was there as a legitimate journalist covering a story, and that Alex tried to provoke attacks from her apparent bodyguards in order to get some better footage (a la Bart Sibrel)

I enjoyed the section on the FEMA camp that Alex highlighted on his site but predicted would be debunked by Beck.

I loved the background music; Troy did a good job of picking tunes that fit the mood of the piece.

Of course, I enjoyed the several bits about Screw Loose Change, although I must admit that:

a) the first bit was the time somebody started a fake SLC Exposed blog. As it happened they picked a perfect time because I was out of town on business and James, that owl's pet, was lapping up pina coladas in Hawaii. So for about 10 hours or so it looked like this NWO operative had turned down all the Ameros to reveal all about the SLC blog. Not surprisingly, Jones bought the hoax (by some Troofer, and not us) and one of his toadies (https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6672545486512599710&postID=8324613747142044275) offered the fake "me" a chance to appear as a guest on his radio show. Jones even suggested that I should call in to protect myself; as I joked at the time, apparently calling into the Alex Jones show is like wearing a condom. Unfortunately, I didn't play along this time, and just put up a post laughing (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/03/blogger-is-always-last-to-know.html) at the whole controversy.

I myself got punk'd on the Unsecured Coins story. I saw the post here at JREF, bought it and posted it over at SLC. About a half hour later someone here notified me that it was all a gag. Now I will emphasize that I would never have posted it at SLC if I'd known it wasn't true. But as it happened I had recently discovered that I'd been wrong on something about Korey Rowe, and this was another thing, so I put up a post noting that now I'd been wrong about two things Korey Rowe had claimed, RFID chips being the second.

Now I was stuck. Did I undo the post at SLC? This dilemma may sound silly, but I really do not like having any false information up at SLC, because all any blogger has to sell is his credibility regarding the topic he blogs on. At the same time, I could see the story had good potential to catch on with the kooks; crap it fooled me, didn't it?

I let the post stand, Bermas apparently found it and pointed it out to Jones, and the rest was history.

[zaphod2016]

To state a clear goal: convert as many Jonesians as possible away from their false messiah.

I can appreciate that conservatives would probably like it better than liberals, but that section #3 on Michelle Malkin versus Alex was particularly good. Regardless of politics, you can see that Alex was trying to stir up the crowd against Malkin

I agree, but if I were to make a similar film I would try to strip out anything partisan. And I say this as a conservative: some of the film came across as very "over the top" to me. Phrases like "America Hater", or the end with the "God Bless the USA" soundtrack, can undermine the film's objective by giving people an easy excuse to dismiss it.

There are many who will refuse to see Malkin in a sympathetic light, who will mock the phrase "America Hater" and who will dismiss the film's points because of the strong nationalism of its narrator. The point of the film is greater than partisanship; I see no reason to forfeit half the potential audience.

I myself got punk'd on the Unsecured Coins story [...] Now I was stuck. Did I undo the post at SLC? This dilemma may sound silly, but I really do not like having any false information up at SLC.

That was actually the last episode of Jones' show I ever listened to. I had already convinced myself I was listening "ironically" by that point, but that event, and the pathetic attempt at backpedaling, really cemented for me what a lame charlatan this guy really is. For the first time I saw him as a con-man praying on the mentally ill, rather than a harmless, entertaining, lunatic.

I really need to get back into video editing. There is so much great material here, and so many good people being taken by this fool.

EDIT: Where can I find more information regarding the Jones / Dylan Avery falling-out?

[Ohnoes]

Troy's effort is hit or miss judging by what I've watched so far. Troy might have been more effective using a less (dare I say Jones'-like?) hyperbolic style. A more sober approach might have worked better.

This is right on the money. I felt a sort of cringe every time he would refer to Alex as a "Douchebag" or "Bitch" knowing that it would lessen the impact of his argument.

So far I'm on video 4 and minus the above issue I am enjoying it. I caught the "Naruto" music in the 4th video as well and it made me chuckle. One thing that also makes me chuckle is Jones $10,000 camera...I didn't know the "Truth" required so much money!:D

[Galileo]

Some of the later videos in this series contain profanity, although I don't recall any in the initial portion. But beware, this may be NSFW:

TzHtUrQyLjc

Former JREF member Troy from WV has put together a video documentary on Alex Jones that is quite entertaining and devastating to old leatherlungs. You can see additional parts of the video (there are 13 in all) at his YouTube site (http://www.youtube.com/user/MrAlexjonesdeception).

My take? Troy did an excellent production job on this. I've watched the first three parts so far, which mainly concern Alex railing against fluoride while his dentist father offers fluoride treatments to his patients, the Sean Fitzgerald murder case and the Michelle Malkin/Alex Jones confrontation at the Denver Mint. While nobody would consider Troy an objective person about Alex (he refers to Jones as a "raving lunatic"), I haven't seen anything that seems unfair, and so far none of the wince-worthy moments that sometimes appear in Troy's phone call videos.

ETA: Relistened to the first part and there is no profanity there, but there certainly is in later segments.

I'll bet Alex Jones gets more downloads than this copycat.

[dudalb]

This is right on the money. I felt a sort of cringe every time he would refer to Alex as a "Douchebag" or "Bitch" knowing that it would lessen the impact of his argument.

So far I'm on video 4 and minus the above issue I am enjoying it. I caught the "Naruto" music in the 4th video as well and it made me chuckle. One thing that also makes me chuckle is Jones $10,000 camera...I didn't know the "Truth" required so much money!:D


Agreed that the narration is over the top and hurts. All Troy needed to do was just show footage Alex and his antics with maybe a comment here or there when ALex tells a whopper. Name calling is not a good idea, when the foorage clearly shows by itself what a piece of work that Alex is.

[Childlike Empress]

(he refers to Jones as a "raving lunatic")


Wednesday August 12, 2009 (http://www.dailymail.com/policebrfs/200908120411)

Troy Palmer Sexton, 36, of Summit Ridge Road, Hurricane, is facing domestic battery charges after carrying his 6-year-old son across a field by one ankle and allowing the child's helmeted head to hit the ground "more than once," according to a criminal complaint filed in Putnam Magistrate Court. [...]

A witness told Mick she saw Sexton leave his seat, cross the field and lift one of his sons above his head and slam him to the ground.

Another witness told police the father had approached the coaching staff and told them his sons were disappointing to him, he was ashamed of their performance on the field and he was taking them home, the patrolman said. [...]

The man was arrested at the field without incident and charged with two counts of domestic battery, misdemeanors. He was released on $20,000 bond Friday.

The children are in the custody of their mother, who was at work when the incident occurred, at their Hurricane home. Mick said the father was ordered to have no contact with the children until the charges are resolved and he is living elsewhere.


Nice company you still keep, Mr. Curley. I have a hard time believing that this insane scumbag hillbilly is able to use VideoEditing-Software the way it was used to produce this video (i watched part one).

@zaphod: As far as i know there are only juvenile "debunker"-videos, focussing on the person Jones, and paranoid videos by fundie christian or jewsuit believers trying to expose Jones. Please go ahead, i would like to see something more serious, focussing on his continous use of out-of-context quotes like the JFK-speech allegedly warning about "secret societies".

[JihadJane]

I watched the first two YouTube videos, and that's about all I could take.

The narrator's insistence on saying "troofers" comes across as incredibly awkward, especially when he is trying level legitimate criticism at Jones.



Anti-twoofers have yet to cotton onto the fact that using baby language makes them sound like babies - slow learners apparently - or that impersonating people with speech impediments as way of inferring mental disability does not help the credibility of their presentations!

[Ohnoes]

I have a hard time believing that this insane scumbag hillbilly is able to use VideoEditing-Software the way it was used to produce this video (i watched part one).

If that's the case then you have never really watched much on youtube! about 90% of the videos there are made by people with little to no video editing knowledge. ;)

Aside from that I guess I'm not 100% surprised by this development. I appreciated his effort in exposing Jones, but as I said above I really think his use of language and treatment of the subject matter didn't help make his case...Well that and now everyone watching him drop his kids head onto the ground as that tends to affect your image in these matters!:boggled:

[Edx]

There was definitely a better way to do it.

But aside from that it is the best and most thorough destruction of AJ around. That may not be saying much but there we are.

I hope someone can make a better one

[zaphod2016]

I'll bet Alex Jones gets more downloads than this copycat.

And I would wager FOX News beat the other networks in ratings again tonight.

Point being?

@Childlike Empress: I certainly intend to try. This month I'm slammed with work (1:15am and my first break of the day). Hopefully in late September I'll find some more time. I've done some playing on YouTube before (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MU8pYIXI2Q), and even have some "CT creds" among our tinfoil wearing friends.

Truth be told, I feel sort of guilty for some of my own pro-woo propaganda. Perhaps a well-edited debunking of Jones can earn me some redemption.

Please help me- what do you feel is the strongest, most objective evidence against Jones?

[Tippit]

Had the director interviewed Dr. Jones, and first established that he agreed with his son's view on fluoride, then this hypocrisy would be damning. Contrarily, if Dr. Jones said these fluoride theories were junk, that would be excellent material also. As-is, this comes across as "ambush journalism", against a family member, no less.



First of all, there is a difference between ingesting fluoride in water on a daily basis and applying it topically at infrequent dental treatments. Second, even assuming there were no difference, this would establish Dr. Jones and not Alex Jones as the hypocrite, provided he agrees with his son. I don't see your point, or the point of the documentary.

[Childlike Empress]

@Childlike Empress: I certainly intend to try. This month I'm slammed with work (1:15am and my first break of the day). Hopefully in late September I'll find some more time. I've done some playing on YouTube before (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MU8pYIXI2Q), and even have some "CT creds" among our tinfoil wearing friends.

Truth be told, I feel sort of guilty for some of my own pro-woo propaganda. Perhaps a well-edited debunking of Jones can earn me some redemption.

Please help me- what do you feel is the strongest, most objective evidence against Jones?


I think it is in general a bad idea to attack him personally if you want to reach his followers. His fans love his style and you only reinforce their admiration of him, escpecially if it's coming from a low-life like Troy.

The best way to reach them is imo to calmly, without insults and condescendence, analyse the selective and often extremely misleading news coverage he does, one case after the other, and let the people decide for themselves. I remember doing that several times years ago on the Loose Change Board, not without reasonable success.

And the last time i did it here was only a few days ago (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=151209).

[Sabrina]

A question to fellow viewers: what were the best (most convincing) sections of this video series?

My picks:

- The "Alive" Hijackers

- The FEMA Camps

- Mike the EMT

- Steel-frame buildings collapsing from fire

- The Unsecured Coins RFID hoax (my fav- ten bonus points for the Magnum PI theme :cool:)

- The Y2K Broadcast

Your thoughts?

Yay I'm (sorta) famous!

That RFID hoax was partially my idea. :D

[zaphod2016]

Yay I'm (sorta) famous!

That RFID hoax was partially my idea. :D

Well I guess I owe you a thank you.

Thank you.

[Sabrina]

Well I guess I owe you a thank you.

Thank you.

You are welcome, sir.

I'm thinking I should dig up that thread and bump it for the sake of reminiscing...

[JoeyDonuts]

You are welcome, sir.

I'm thinking I should dig up that thread and bump it for the sake of reminiscing...

You do that and enjoy it.

Don't anybody DARE go near the Flight 93 Critic thread. Not even to bump it to see if 16.5's gotten anything yet.

As far as the video, I managed to catch a few minutes. While I agree with a lot of what Troy says, his manner of saying it is pretty reprehensible. What's wrong with at least trying to take some kind of calm high ground? I don't think this video was about trying to reach Alex Jones' followers. This video was all about Troy.

The man's an ass. I commend him for compiling and presenting the information - but I really wish he'd have left the presentation to somebody less vitriolic.

[Sabrina]

You do that and enjoy it.

Don't anybody DARE go near the Flight 93 Critic thread. Not even to bump it to see if 16.5's gotten anything yet.

You're not the boss of me! :p

In fact, if memory serves... I'd be your boss.

I'll PM him instead though. *LOL*

[JoeyDonuts]

You're not the boss of me! :p

In fact, if memory serves... I'd be your boss.

Har har.

I'm insubordinate and don't get haircuts.

[Klimax]

Don't anybody DARE go near the Flight 93 Critic thread. Not even to bump it to see if 16.5's gotten anything yet.


Hm. Why not?

[Sabrina]

Hm. Why not?

Baaaaaaaaaad juju.

Last time we bumped it, it went off on a tangent that had nothing to do with the OP (again) and they had to send a bunch of posts to AAH. Happens pretty much every time we bump it.

[JoeyDonuts]

Any thread that ULTIMA1 got involved in is a barren and scorched wasteland.

[NWO Sentryman]

he should have included the rant after the chomsky interview.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Nice company you still keep, Mr. Curley.

9/11 truthers and/or Alex Jones fans have murdered six people since November of last year.

Nice company you keep there, Childlike Empress.

[Klimax]

Baaaaaaaaaad juju.

Last time we bumped it, it went off on a tangent that had nothing to do with the OP (again) and they had to send a bunch of posts to AAH. Happens pretty much every time we bump it.

Could survive... so long as mods don't send it all right away.

Any thread that ULTIMA1 got involved in is a barren and scorched wasteland.

He is no longer...

[zaphod2016]

he should have included the rant after the chomsky interview.

Link?

9/11 truthers and/or Alex Jones fans have murdered six people since November of last year.

Link? Are you referring to the Holocaust museum shooter, or something else?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Link?



Link? Are you referring to the Holocaust museum shooter, or something else?

Twoofer Sean Fitzgerald (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2008/11/wac-job-murders-own-father.html) stabbed his father to death, that's one.

The killer of three Pittsburgh police officers (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09095/960750-53.stm) in April of this year was an Alex Jones fan and 9/11 twoofer.

The killer of Dr. George Tiller fell for nearly every nutty theory under the sun according to his wikipedia page. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_George_Tiller#Anti-government_activism) Though not fully confirmed, I would mark him down as a probable twoofer.

And of course, the aforementioned Holocaust museum killer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Von_Brunn#James_von_Brunn).

For the sake of expediency, let's leave out the Tiller assassin until he opens his mouth in front of a camera next. That's 5 people who have died at the hands of 9/11 truthers and/or Alex Jones fans in less than a year.




And oh yeah.... in August of 2009, a man described by most JREFers as one who pushes the envelope a little too far bonked his son on the head while the kid was wearing a helmet.

Somebody get a rope. :p

[NWO Sentryman]

Link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0APTn1EPg9E&feature=related

[mythstifieD]

A question to fellow viewers: what were the best (most convincing) sections of this video series?

My picks:

- The "Alive" Hijackers

- The FEMA Camps

- Mike the EMT

- Steel-frame buildings collapsing from fire

- The Unsecured Coins RFID hoax (my fav- ten bonus points for the Magnum PI theme :cool:)

- The Y2K Broadcast

Your thoughts?

I love the part where he says, "Yeah, that's right, some fat **** and his paranoid schizophrenic followers in Texas stopped another 9/11 thanks to some unknown Fox news anchor exposing it."

Alex Jones can't lose! If he was right about an attack in Oct 2006, well, whoa? And if he's wrong? Then he succeeded in thrwarting it!

Hey...doesn't he accuse the Gov of the same dance? ie. When Bush said they thwarted an attack in L.A.?