Woowoo saves her baby's life

[Deetee]

There's a lot of junk around on the web, especially on the MMR vaccine. (I just can't wait for the fall out from the TV drama tonight) One site I have seen publishes medical "horror stories" or errors, with the expressed intention of scaring people away from medicine altogether.


"I knew they were wrong. It saved my tiny boy's life"
http://www.wddty.co.uk/healthstories/Whooping%20Cough/index.asp (http://)

"My third child was born in March this year. After a wonderful uncomplicated staff in life, he contracted whooping cough at eight weeks. It as the worst nightmare of my life.

I went to the surgery three times in a week telling each different doctor I saw that my baby had whooping cough. They preferred to diagnose a virus and kept sending me home. On the fourth visit, I finally saw my own doctor. She knows I am very alternative and don't seek medical help often. She witnessed him having a coughing fit and turning blue. She was on the phone to the hospital before the fit was over.

For five hours I sat in a dirty, cold ward room waiting for our baby to be examined. When the doctor finally came, I was in tears and decided to go home. She said I couldn't do that as she had brought a cannula to put a drip in him and some antibiotics. When I refused, hospital staff suddenly turned up in larger numbers waving Medical Advice Waivers in my face. I went home in tears with her voice ringing in my ears that he could suffer a cerebral hemorrhage from coughing and that I shouldn't be taking him home.

It was hard for me to carry on completely alone. I just knew that this tiny baby surely would have a better chance of surviving always being in his mother's arms and constantly breastfed, than being put in a dirty hospital cot, hooked up to all number of things, unable to be near me.

For the next two weeks, I did nothing but sit in a kitchen full of steam. I was always feeding him. A dear friend would creep in the backdoor and most lovingly administer acupuncture to him. My homeopath sent drosera. I think I must have cried every day from exhaustion, fear and lonliness.

Well, I don't need to tell you my son made a full recovery. He was slow to put back on the weight he lost but he is now a roly-poly full-of-beans seven month old.

Thank you, WDDTY, for putting together so much information. It was you and your publication which put me on the path of being informed. I will be forever indebted."
JBP,
Cookham Dean, Berks


Several thoughts spring to mind. Firstly her doctors don't take things seriously enough, and it takes her own doc to refer her to hospital. But having got there she decides she doesn't want to stay, for what sounds like good, but what are completely spurious reasons.

Pertussis can cause pneumonia, brain damage, hypoxia etc and have nasty complications. Even if the environment is unsuitable, I would do anything to see my child was not denied monitoring, oxygen, antibiotics etc to help recovery.

No paediatric unit in the country would have denied this mum the right to stay with her child 24/7 if wished, and continue to breast feed as normal.

Instead we see that acupuncture and homeopathy apparently get this child better, the implication being that to have stayed in hospital would have killed her child, when in fact she has been quite fortunate that the opposite did not become the case.

I wonder if her children are immunised, or whether being "very alternative" they get some homeopathic vaccine or other. Just hope her baby doesn't now get measles (as the chance of her getting MMR will be zero)

[geni]

I think your link is broken.

Other than that welcome to britian in the 14th sorry no the 21st century.

[BillyJoe]

Just some points...

The child could easily have had croup rather than whooping cough.
It is possible (presuming a diagnosis of croup) that the first three doctors were entirely correct in their management of the baby.
By the time the parent's usual GP was consulted, the baby's condition might have deteriorated sufficiently to then require hospitalization.
Did the hospital really allow her child, if it was very unwell and turning blue, wait for five hours before being seen.
Would the staff really let the child wait five hours after the GP had actually rung them regarding the baby's condition
Why did she wait patiently for five hours and then, after the long wait was all over, then take him home.
If she didn't like the idea of drips and antibiotics why did she attend in the first place, Did she think they were going to treat him with homoeopathic drops or something.
Why did she think he would be placed in a dirty cot.
Did hospital staff really wave Medical Advice Waivers in her face? If the child was really unwell, they surely would not allow the child to be taken home.
Why does she complain about having to look after her child "completely alone" after she had rejected the help of hospital staff.
Why would the child be hooked up to a "number of things" - a single drip would siurely be sufficient
Why would her child not be able to hear her.
Why would her child not be able to breast feed in hospital.
She complains about having "cried every day from exhaustion, fear and lonliness" after rejecting help offered by hospital staff.
Well, her son survived and that was probably because he was not that unwell to begin with - after all she was feeding him all the time and a very sick infant stops feeding.
It is possible that the child was not really too unwell but that hospital staff were going to admit the child as a precaution. Other wise they would not have allowed the mother to take it home regardless of her objections.

In summary. I don't think this story rings true. At the very least if has been embellished and dramatised. It might even be completely untrue for all we know.

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
Well, her son survived and that was probably because he was not that unwell to begin with - after all she was feeding him all the time and a very sick infant stops feeding.
Yup. This is one of the first things I noticed about the tale. With pertussis, infants usually can't stop coughing long enough to feed. The sniff test meter isn't happy.

[Deetee]

Originally posted by geni
I think your link is broken.




Not sure why that happens - I pasted it into the hyperlink box as usual. If you copy the url and paste it into your address line it will work.....

And BillyJoe - I agree with your points entirely. I would have pointed out more inconsistencies in my original post, but didn't want to make it too long.

The one thing that annoys me is the presumption in a lot of these cases that the medical fraternity would somehow have killed the victim if they had followed orthodox medical advice. These people got better despite the lack of medical care, not because of the lack of medical interference.

Another story on the same page shows how a woman's life "was saved" because she eventually decided her vague neurological symptoms were due to the pill, and not MS which her doctors were (appropriately) investigating her for. Was a diagnosis of MS going to kill her? (its not as though they were about to do anything to her like a brain transplant or lifethreatening chemtherapy)
(although the brain transplant might be a good idea...)

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by Deetee
Not sure why that happens - I pasted it into the hyperlink box as usual.

The syntax is messed up. Here it is, corrected:

http://www.wddty.co.uk/healthstories/Whooping%20Cough/index.asp

[BillHoyt]

You should probably cut back the length of your quote here. You copied the entire web page in your post.

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by Deetee
(snipped introduction)

"My third child was born in March this year. After a wonderful uncomplicated staff in life, he contracted whooping cough at eight weeks. It as the worst nightmare of my life.
this kid is less than a 1 year old, if the baby's 7 months by the time he "got better"

I went to the surgery three times in a week telling each different doctor I saw that my baby had whooping cough. They preferred to diagnose a virus and kept sending me home. On the fourth visit, I finally saw my own doctor. She knows I am very alternative and don't seek medical help often. (snipped)
so she didn't wait to see if the medication worked, if she went 3 times in a week. Assuming she got the med at all. She's so alternative she won't go to a doctor or trust them for a correct diagnosis; she without any proper medical training has decided the kid has whooping cough. Great. just great.

For five hours I sat in a dirty, cold ward room waiting for our baby to be examined. When the doctor finally came, I was in tears and decided to go home. She said I couldn't do that as she had brought a cannula to put a drip in him and some antibiotics. When I refused, hospital staff suddenly turned up in larger numbers waving Medical Advice Waivers in my face. I went home in tears with her voice ringing in my ears that he could suffer a cerebral hemorrhage from coughing and that I shouldn't be taking him home. Dirty? Hospital rooms need to conform to certain government standards of cleanliness. I'm betting her own "steam filled kitchen" that she sat in for two weeks was grimier. And then when the kid was going to be treated, she refused the treatment, and went home in tears. Poor mommy.

It was hard for me to carry on completely alone. I just knew that this tiny baby surely would have a better chance of surviving always being in his mother's arms and constantly breastfed, than being put in a dirty hospital cot, hooked up to all number of things, unable to be near me.
now she's just making things up; her own fears voiced. Again the imaginary fear of dirty environment , isolated and alone. Poor thing. And she "knew" it! She "knew"!

For the next two weeks, I did nothing but sit in a kitchen full of steam. I was always feeding him. A dear friend would creep in the backdoor and most lovingly administer acupuncture to him. (snipped)

Now that's dirty and grimy. Grimy grimy grimy! Sitting in a kitchen full of steam for 2 weeks? A friend coming in and sticking (most likely) unsterile needles in a kid? This gets better and better.

Is this for real? I'm thinking it was greatly embellished, too.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
Just some points...

[snip]

In summary. I don't think this story rings true. At the very least if has been embellished and dramatised. It might even be completely untrue for all we know.

I agree completely with your assessment. Especially regarding her complaint of not being allowed near her child if he were hospitalized. As the mother of an infant who had heart surgery, there were very few times I was not permitted access to my child. I even helped to remove his chest tubes. The only time I was kept from my child was during the actual surgery and for a short time after the surgery while he was in immediate recovery. I was with him every second other than that. The hospital even had a setup so I could sleep near him. I didn't leave the hospital for 2 weeks. Also, when my daughter was ill a few years ago and ended up hospitalized for pneumonia, I was not absent from her side at all. I sat in her bed and held her.

[reprise]

Just a couple of things I'd like to address. It is possible to test for pertussis - there is no need for it to be diagnosed clinically. The results can take a while to come back, but most doctors will work on a presumptive diagnosis of pertussis and commence treatment accordingly while they wait for confirmation - especially in a child so young who is at very real risk if their infection is pertussis.

Taking the child back to the doctor repeatedly if their condition was not improving was the right thing to do. You don't mess around with infants, and especially where respiratory illness is concerned. "Wait and see" is not an appropriate method of dealing with respiratory illness in anyone, let alone in an infant.

I have done the "many hours at the hospital" thing waiting for a child with acute respiratory distress to be seen by a doctor. Not once has nothing been done during the time I have been waiting. Generally, saturated oxygen levels are done immediately as these are the best indication of how urgently the condition needs further treatment. Often, by the time my child actually sees the doctor they have already been given bronchodilators and had x-rays taken as well. No mention is made of the child having been placed on a nebuliser and I find that quite extraordinary.

Whle I know from personal experience that it can be difficult to get doctors to take a child's ill health seriously if they have already made up their mind that it is "illness X", I suspect that we're getting a very selected range of facts in this story. Whether this child's condition was croup, pertussis, asthma, or something else entirely, it clearly needed proper medical evaluation and management and the mother was irresponsible to leave the hospital without getting a proper diagnosis and care plan. She is lucky that her child recovered without proper treatment this time. Next time she might not be so lucky.

And I agree with the previous posters who have pointed out that not only are parents "allowed" to be with their children 24/7, they are actively encouraged to do so if at all possible.

[Eos of the Eons]

That so called story is typical of all stories on that site.

So a guarded welcome is due to the news that the American drug regulator, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), has approved a clinical trial of Kanglaite, a drug based on a herb from Traditional Chinese Medicine.

Kanglaite is now the major cancer treatment in China following a host of successful trials. Admittedly, a lot of research from China tends to be glowing, and suspect, but the results have been so overwhelmingly positive that to continue to ignore it is almost a crime against humanity...


In clinical trials, it was found to be as effective as chemotherapy among lung cancer sufferers, but without any of the nasty side effects. When it was used with chemotherapy, it was twice as effective as chemotherapy on its own.
.


http://www.wddty.co.uk/archive/e-news%20No%2007%20-%2018%20Oct%202002.html

That whole site is full of bogus claims, hyped stories (probably untrue) and stuff to sell you.

It's a typical disgusting scene of wooism that makes me want to retch.

If anything, this site you dragged onto this thread should be seen as one of the worst examples of filth on the net.

To find out more about a range of alternative cancer treatments, read our Cancer Handbook. Visit: http://www.wddty.co.uk to order your copy.

Want to see more hype for their wares?

http://www.wddty.co.uk/healthstories/Saved%20My%20Life/index.asp

Typical scare tactics to make you think that 'mainstream' is evil.

[Eos of the Eons]

Oh, I loooooove what their take is on the human genome project

Ready for the Cosmic Joke? The results of the Genome project reveal that there are only about 34,000 genes in the human genome. Two thirds of the anticipated genes do not exist! How can we account for the complexity of a genetically-controlled human when there are not even enough genes to code just for the proteins?

Liars liars liars. That story you posted, I am totally willing to believe it is as bogus as everything else on that site.

http://www.wddty.co.uk/thefield/board/mw_main.asp?GroupID=9&Groupname=DNA


I really ought to check if this site has be ripped apart by quackwatch.


The "failure" of the genome results to conform to our expectations reveals that our expectations of how biology "works" are clearly based upon incorrect assumptions or information. Our "belief" in the concept of genetic determinism is fundamentally…flawed! We can not truly attribute the character of our lives to be the consequence of genetic "programming." The genome results force us to reconsider the question: "From whence do we acquire our biological complexity?"

...But unless the human genome contains a lot of genes that are opaque to our computers, it is clear that we do not gain our undoubted complexity over worms and plants by using more genes. Understanding what does give us our complexity-our enormous behavioral repertoire, ability to produce conscious action, remarkable physical coordination, precisely tuned alterations in response to external variations of the environment, learning, memory…need I go on?-remains a challenge for the future." (Nature 409:816, 2001)



I don't know whether I should laugh or barf.

[Eos of the Eons]

Yep, quackwatch has them on their list

http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/nonrecperiodical.html

I consider these publications untrustworthy because they promote misinformation, espouse unscientific theories, contain unsubstantiated advice, and/or fail to distinguish between reliable and unreliable sources of advice. The magazines and journals marked with an asterisk (*) also carry ads for questionable products, services, and/or publications. Few newsletters carry ads for products. Those marked with a double asterisk (**) have been accompanied by questionable solicitations.Those marked with a double asterisk (**) have been accompanied by questionable solicitations

Yep, they get double asterisks too.

[BillyJoe]

reprise,

Originally posted by reprise
Just a couple of things I'd like to address. It is possible to test for pertussis - there is no need for it to be diagnosed clinically. The results can take a while to come back, but most doctors will work on a presumptive diagnosis of pertussis and commence treatment accordingly while they wait for confirmation - especially in a child so young who is at very real risk if their infection is pertussis. I think you maybe contradicting yourself a bit here.
It is because of the fact that laboratory test for pertusis "take a while to come back" that the diagnosis in the initial phase has to be clinical. The doctor makes a clinical diagnosis based on the clinical picture and treats the patient on that basis. The results of laboratory test will either confirm or disconfirm the diagnosis a day or two later.

Originally posted by reprise
Taking the child back to the doctor repeatedly if their condition was not improving was the right thing to do. You don't mess around with infants, and especially where respiratory illness is concerned. I would agree and the younger the child the more important it is to seek medical advice earlier and to return if the condition of the child worsens.

Originally posted by reprise
"Wait and see" is not an appropriate method of dealing with respiratory illness in anyone, let alone in an infant. I think perhaps you overstep your advice here.
It would be appropriate, I think, to "wait and see" with most respiratory illnesses because most respiratory illnesses are mild self-limiting viral illnesses for which there is no treatment and no need for treatment

Originally posted by reprise
I have done the "many hours at the hospital" thing waiting for a child with acute respiratory distress to be seen by a doctor. Not once has nothing been done during the time I have been waiting. Generally, saturated oxygen levels are done immediately as these are the best indication of how urgently the condition needs further treatment. Often, by the time my child actually sees the doctor they have already been given bronchodilators and had x-rays taken as well. Sounds like you have access to excellent hospital services in your area. But I am unaware that medication and investigations can be ordered by some one other than a doctor??

Originally posted by reprise
No mention is made of the child having been placed on a nebuliser and I find that quite extraordinary. A nebulizer is for giving bronchodilators such as "Ventolin" which would be useful for asthma and perhaps also croup but not for pertusis. Again I am unaware that a nurse can administer medication before a doctor has seen the patient, made a diagnosis and ordered the treatment. I guess there are exceptions in urgent and obvious cases such as an acute asthma attack.

Originally posted by reprise
.....Whether this child's condition was croup, pertussis, asthma, or something else entirely, it clearly needed proper medical evaluation and management and the mother was irresponsible to leave the hospital without getting a proper diagnosis and care plan. She is lucky that her child recovered without proper treatment this time. Next time she might not be so lucky.And I don't think the medical staff would allow the mother to take the child out of the hospital if they felt she was putting the child's life at risk by doing so. As I said, perhaps the child was not nearly as sick as the mother would have us believe.

BillyJoe.

[Deetee]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons

If anything, this site you dragged onto this thread should be seen as one of the worst examples of filth on the net.


Humble apologies........
(I hate to alert anyone to anything filthy on the net)

Nice to know you all are sitting on the fence with this one....;)

[Eos of the Eons]

Originally posted by Deetee


Humble apologies........
(I hate to alert anyone to anything filthy on the net)

Nice to know you all are sitting on the fence with this one....;)


Well, at least you apologized ;) :D