JREF and Notable Skeptics financial and gov. ties

[Sunray Breaker]

Hello...I have a silly but important question that may help shut a lot of CT's up about JREF...

I was wondering what you folks could tell me about who funds things like JREF, Michael Shermer, Penn and Teller and other notable skeptics...

Also perhaps a bit about their political affiliations, think tanks, etc. I know the CATO institute is a big one...What else though?

I always get these BS accusations that JREF is a corporate shill site and so are the skeptics and I need some ammo to combat it. I already can tell by the way they operate that they most likely are not.

But I'd like to have this info handy for when this crap gets brought up...

Any good sources or info you could help me with on this would be greatly appreciated.

I think this could clear up a lot about people who don't consider this site trustworthy. Because that's the first thing CT's attack once they've been proven wrong at anything else...

HELP PLEASE!!!

Thanx

[Childlike Empress]

What, the Cato Institute is funding organised skepticism? Evidence?

[Ducky]

Obviously we're funded by Obama's Pot and Jizz Emporium's generous donations to ensure we keep the world socialized and subjugated so the NWO can carry out their death panels and false flag ops.

[Hokulele]

Anyone who thinks Penn Jillette is a government/corporate shill needs to be laughing dogged senseless.

Warning - Some language and content is NSFW. The posts from February includes a good collection of rebuttals to this particular argument.

http://www.crackle.com/c/Penn_Says

[Drudgewire]

I was wondering what you folks could tell me about who funds things like... Penn and Teller


Well, I own seasons 1-3 of ************! and bought "Penn and Teller Get Killed" on VHS years ago...

...so I guess I do. vhttp://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/shobon.gifv

[Hokulele]

Hey, cool! I was investigoogling around looking the tax records for the JREF (being a non-profit, those are public, but may have to be requested or something), and found this article from this week. Somewhat off topic but page 4 does discuss the sources of funding for the JREF, as well as what Randi makes.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2009-08-27/news/james-randi-the-god-of-skeptics/1

[Childlike Empress]

But Randi still has loyal followers who revere him like a religious leader.


Tsk tsk. ;) Interesting article, reading now.

[Hokulele]

Tsk tsk. ;) Interesting article, reading now.


Yes, I found the whole religious/God/cult theme amusing. But it does seem to be a fairly balanced article about the Foundation.

[boloboffin]

Doesn't someone need to demonstrate organization around here before going on about who's funding it?

[LightinDarkness]

I'm pretty sure JREF, like most non-profits, is funded by private donations. And since JREF is a non-profit, its tax documents should be available - you can find major funding sources there.

There are no political groups funding skeptic organizations that I am aware of. Think tanks like CATO or Brookings usually don't fund other non-profits either, unless its for a political cause they support. JREF is politically neutral, although I believe James Randi and quite a few of the staff are left-wing in their personal politics from reading the swift blog. However, they really try to make the foundation a-political, and such wouldn't get any funding from any political group.

The "corporate shill" CT accusation is a classic that they turn to when they know they have been debunking. As with all CT, their is no evidence for it nor does it make any sense. And people like Penn and Teller don't get paid by any corporation, they do shows and people pay to see them.

[Childlike Empress]

Hey, cool! I was investigoogling around looking the tax records for the JREF (being a non-profit, those are public, but may have to be requested or something), and found this article from this week. Somewhat off topic but page 4 does discuss the sources of funding for the JREF, as well as what Randi makes.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2009-08-27/news/james-randi-the-god-of-skeptics/1


Here's the relevant (vague) quote:

Like many nonprofits, the James Randi Educational Foundation has taken a severe financial hit over the past year. The foundation is funded through sales of books and DVDs, grants, conferences, donations from wealthy friends, and Randi's speaking engagements, which command as much as $30,000.

According to tax records, Randi's organization lost nearly a quarter of its $2 million overall worth last year. (The $1 million for the challenge is held in a separate, Goldman Sachs account.) Randi takes an annual salary of about $200,000, which he justifies by saying it's in line with what he was making as an entertainer and hasn't been adjusted much in the 13 years since the foundation was started.

[Sunray Breaker]

In reference to CATO I was refferring to a couple of Skeptics that contribute their ideas to the institute...Not necessarily being funded by it.

Teller and Radley Balko to be more specific. I really don't know much else...But I'm going to look into it some more. I'll read that Randi paperwork when I get a few minutes...

I didn't think they we're funded by any governmental think tank or body...I just knew they we're associated with them in some way.

Basically I want to know what pitfalls might be brought up by CT's so I'll be prepared to defend against them, when it comes to this sort of thing.

[Childlike Empress]

In reference to CATO I was refferring to a couple of Skeptics that contribute their ideas to the institute...Not necessarily being funded by it.

Teller and Radley Balko to be more specific. I really don't know much else...But I'm going to look into it some more.


Drop a link if you've found it. Amusing and interesting article Hokulele posted. I LOLed several times (in a sympathetic but distanced manner). One more quote from it that could be relevant to the thread:

Dr. Yaron Brook, president of the think tank Ayn Rand Institute in Irvine, California, says Randi has been a prominent promoter of reason and scientific method. "Part of his legacy will be the resurgence in atheism and all the debunking he's done, but one of his greatest achievements has been the reassertion of one objective truth," Brook says. "So many of those influenced by him just want to debunk for the sake of debunking, but Randi is better. He is a defender of the truth."

[Hokulele]

I live to amuse.

[Sunray Breaker]

I just looked up their members list on wikipedia and found it. If I wasn't in an insane rush out the door while typing this, I'd find the link...Be back soon....

It's not like JREF is going anywhere...

LOL

[Childlike Empress]

I live to amuse.


Don't let the god of skeptics hear that! You live for no reason but random chance! :p

[Sunray Breaker]

An Atheist Prayer...

"Everything is random, there is no plan, good luck!!!"

[Childlike Empress]

"I used to be an atheist, until I realized I had nothing to shout during blowjobs. 'Oh Random Chance! Oh Random Chance!' just doesn't cut it..." - Robert Anton Wilson

[Pardalis]

That's because Wilson had to pay for every one he got.

[Hokulele]

"I used to be an atheist, until I realized I had nothing to shout during blowjobs. 'Oh Random Chance! Oh Random Chance!' just doesn't cut it..." - Robert Anton Wilson


I can see how this addresses the OP. :rolleyes:

[Childlike Empress]

Reporting me for it wouldn't be amusing! ;)

[Sunray Breaker]

Hmm...
Atheism = Godless BJ's
Godless BJ's = Apathy to superstition
Apathy to superstition = JREF
JREF = Skeptics
Skeptics = CATO?

Wait what?

I couldn't even pretend that was connected...

I'm confused...

But seriously though...I looked around and I really can't find any dirt on the skeptics.

There's GOTTA be something.

C'mon guys, gimme some self inflicted wounds. I know how critical you are...I want to know what you're critiques would be of the skeptics...So I know what to look out for when A CT starts rambling.

[Childlike Empress]

Before we play devils advocate, you should come up with some beef, me thinks. I've read some very uncharming articles about organised skepticism that i partly agree with, some random dirt on Randi i'm in no position to verify, but you are not talking about worldview but "shilling". Sorry, nothing to contribute.

[Sunray Breaker]

Not really shilling per say...I'm just interested in the dirt.

I know there was that issue Randi had once regarding accusing that guy of being a pedo (which he pretty much was) and then getting sued for defamation. A few random articles like that.

I've read one about the million dollar challenge being unfair (I thought it was total hogwash)...But just find it interesting. JREF is awesome at nailing people on their BS, but there's gotta be SOMETHING BS about the skeptics community.

The less I find, the more I like this place.

[Stellafane]

I am personally funded by the U.S. Department of Energy, the U.S. National Institutes of Health, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the U.S. National Science Foundation, and the Oak Ridge National Laboratories. And here's the punch line: Everything I just said is absolutely true. So I guess as far as CTers are concerned, I must be Mr. Shillton S. Schilling, and I get paid in shillings.

[jaydeehess]

gov't ties: 25 years ago I used to work for Transport Canada

financial ties to gov't: I pay my taxes

political affiliation: I have voted for either the Liberal Party or the Conservatives at various times in my life as a voter in Canada.

Other: I at one time owned my own retail store.
I now work at a TV station

[Childlike Empress]

Folks, you are completely off-topic. He talks about Randi and notable skeptics.

[jaydeehess]

Folks, you are completely off-topic. He talks about Randi and notable skeptics.

You are correct.

He also did not speak about atheist blowjobs.

Furthermore, who funds Robert Anton Wilson ?:D

[JoeyDonuts]

Besides, who funds the blowjobs around here?!?

Crivvens, I think I just figured out why TAM's are held in Las Vegas.

[Caustic Logic]

But seriously though...I looked around and I really can't find any dirt on the skeptics.

There's GOTTA be something.

C'mon guys, gimme some self inflicted wounds. I know how critical you are...I want to know what you're critiques would be of the skeptics...So I know what to look out for when A CT starts rambling.

They kill the magic. End of story. Evil.

Paid first and foremost by the US Department of Evil and Spiritual Atrophy. Anything else is a smokescreen.

What the hell is that avatar anyway? I keep thinking Aphex Twin and maybe just saw the logo in there...

[Matthew Cline]

Hello...I have a silly but important question that may help shut a lot of CT's up about JREF...

It won't shut them up, since they'll just think that the information is faked/cooked, or that JREF/skeptics are being given cash under-the-table that wouldn't show up on official records, or something. So trying to find anything like that is a waste of time.

[CptColumbo]

I'm sorry I came into this thread late. How do I get in on the BJ action? I was unaware that this was a perk of being a shill.

Seriously, as you wrote earlier Sunray "JREF is awesome at nailing people on their BS." When someone doesn't have a counter arguement they will resort to poisoning the well. A couple of years ago Randi appeared on CNN opposite a representative of Sylvia Brown and the only thing the rep could say to counter Randi's arguments was that he was an atheist.

This mesage brought to you by the Guild of Calamitous Intent.

[RedIbis]

Before he graduated high school, Randi left town with the carnival, performing as "Prince Ibis."

I knew we were kindred spirits.

[Childlike Empress]

Furthermore, who funds Robert Anton Wilson ?:D


He's dead. :(

Months before he died, his family and friends had to ask for donations on the internet, because he was bankrupt, in danger of loosing his house and unable to finance further medical treatments. They collected over $50000 in literally a few days and told us to stop sending money, it was more than enough to finance the rest of his days. Impressive reaction and i've spread the word to several forums including this, so i helped funding him myself!

His last blog entry, five days before he died:

"I love you all and I deeply implore you to keep the lasagna flying. Please pardon my levity, I don't see how to take death seriously. It seems absurd."
----Robert Anton Wilson, 1/6/07

[Sunray Breaker]

What the hell is that avatar anyway? I keep thinking Aphex Twin and maybe just saw the logo in there...

The poster in the backgroung IS an Aphex Twin poster my friend Chris made for me when I was complaining about how hard it is to find Aphex merch in my town.

It's a picture of myself with a photoshopped monster mask on.

I have others...I like to do zombies, murder scenes and alien scenes (in photoshop of course) if anyone wants a catchier Avatar...But you guys have pretty awesome ones already.

I agree with most people in this post. The dirt that is there I'd have to dig really hard for and it's not even really worth it.

When you see what little they actually have against the skeptics it's rather refreshing.

Skeptics have a tendency to leave it all out there, so that there's no confusion (just an opinion, I could be wrong).

As my crazy but smart ex girlfriend once said:

"Defenselessness is the best defense".

If that makes sense? Probably Not

[Childlike Empress]

Meh. Nothing at all? How boring. I've found (http://tfcny.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/650/650649443/650649443_200712_990.pdf) the "990" tax form for the JREF in 2007, perhaps something shilly in there?

[ktesibios]

As for me,

Previous financial ties to gummint/evil corporations: after my father, a research chemist for Esso (now Exxon) died, my mom and i were supported by a combination of Social Security survivor benefits and dividends from the Esso stock he had acquired while working there.

So, I was, essentially, raised by Big Gummint and Big Oil.

I also attended public (i.e., government) schools.

Current financial ties to gummint/evil corporations: there is a gummint conspiracy that mysteriously removes money from my paychecks every week. In addition, I was recently paid by the government for two days of jury service.

Of course, 17 bucks isn't two days worth of lunch money in this burg, but hey- I don't set the Faceless Evil Minion rates- that's the Faceless Evil Minion's Union, and a fine CF of a contract they got us, too.

I now work in the recording industry, where I'm in charge of inserting the backwards subliminal mind-control messages into pop music records. :D

[oldhat]

Meh. Nothing at all? How boring. I've found (http://tfcny.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/650/650649443/650649443_200712_990.pdf) the "990" tax form for the JREF in 2007, perhaps something shilly in there?

Page 22:

US and State Government Bonds

:eek:

[Childlike Empress]

Why do you omit the blacked-out corner on page 8, eh? eh?

Very suspicious. That's PART X, you know what that means? The three sentences end on "with the NWO", "from the NWO" and "to the NWO". Ha!

[Klimax]

Ties with gov? Besides public education system and healthcare,none so far.(Private schools have truly bad rep.)

But soon I might be there...

[zaphod2016]

organised skepticism?

:confused:

How do I get my taste of the action? I wanna earn!

[boloboffin]

I got to vote three times for Barack Obama here in Texas, twice on the same day. Does that count?

[releaseeabode]

..."It's the skeptics' willingness to say "I don't know" that makes them a mostly libertarian bunch. "We don't trust anything or anyone," a science teacher from Texas explains, "least of all the government."..."

Fantastic quote from the article.

[Mojo]

He's dead. :(

Months before he died, his family and friends had to ask for donations on the internet, because he was bankrupt, in danger of loosing his house and unable to finance further medical treatments.


Damn that evil socialised medicine!

[Liszt]

Hey, cool! I was investigoogling around looking the tax records for the JREF (being a non-profit, those are public, but may have to be requested or something), and found this article from this week. Somewhat off topic but page 4 does discuss the sources of funding for the JREF, as well as what Randi makes.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2009-08-27/news/james-randi-the-god-of-skeptics/1

this article is great, but can anyone who has been to TAM explain this?

"A booth sells little James Randi dolls with glasses, bushy white beards, and tiny handcuffs."

Handcuffs?

[kookbreaker]

this article is great, but can anyone who has been to TAM explain this?

"A booth sells little James Randi dolls with glasses, bushy white beards, and tiny handcuffs."

Handcuffs?

Maybe you heard: James Randi was a magician specializing in escape artistry.

[jaydeehess]

I got to vote three times for Barack Obama here in Texas, twice on the same day. Does that count?

Gotcha beat. I voted for him three times all on the same day, in two separate CANADIAN provinces:D

[jaydeehess]

He's dead. :(



But you quote him concerning recent events?

Come on, he isn't really dead is he? He's actually pumping gas at the station Elvis owns.

[Liszt]

Maybe you heard: James Randi was a magician specializing in escape artistry.

right, thanks.


For a minute, I thought it was supposed to imply that he might be breaking the law with his athiest stance. But that's just stupid.