Let's say the Holocaust did not happen

[Thunder]

OK, lets play a little game of historical revision.

The Holocaust never occured. The 6 million or so Jews is really a horrible math and census error. Only 250,000 Jews died from starvation, typhus, and other diseases.

That said....we still DO know that millions of Jews lost their jobs, their homes, their property. And not JUST rich Jews.....but mostly middle class and poor Jews.

These Jews lost all they had, were often murdered, raped, attacked by raging mobs. They were put into slave labor camps (along with non-Jews).

And millions if not hundreds of thousands were forced into concentration camps in Poland and elsewhere.

Women, children, elderly...folks who were never tried for a crime..never convicted of wrong doing..were treated horribly.

My question to those of you who say this is what indeed happened: was it justified? Did these millions of Jews deserve to be treated this way?

Did they deserve to have their stores and homes and farms and synagogues burnt down? Did they deserve to lose all their civil and political rights?

Did every single Jew in Europe deserve to be treated the way they were?

This is not a question about Dresden, or Nagasaki, this is a question about the horrible treatment the Jews of Europe suffered during WW2 in Germany and all German occupied lands.

Did they deserve this?

If you say "yes. the millions of Jews of Europe got just what they deserved", I'd like some rational and logical reasons for such a conclusion.

[SpitfireIX]

Tu quoque fallacy about Japanese-Americans in 3, 2, 1 . . .

[ddt]

Zero!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/A6M3_Munda_1943.jpg

[Skeptic]

Once you deny the holocaust, the next step would be to claim no Jews lost their homes or lives or anything else.

More to the point: what has Nazism achieved? Forget the holocaust for a moment. Let's assume it never happened. Can anybody point out to any positive achievement of Nazis? The art-deco uniform?!

[Thunder]

I'd really like to focus on getting a response from our resident Holocaust-deniers/Nazi apologists.

What say you? Did the Jews deserve violence, rape, loss of property, loss of jobs, starvation, and deportation?

Did millions of Jews deserve such punishment..without a trial or even accusation of specific crimes?

[ddt]

And now for a serious reaction to the OP. This thread either gets no traction at all, or turns into a train wreck. No civilized person answers "yes" to your question. The Holocaust deniers won't be so dumb to immediately blow their cover. What's the point of this Gedankenexperiment?

[grunion]

Regardless of your intent, I think these kinds of intellectual games just turn into denier celebrations. Let's say it didn't happen? No, I won't. It happened.

[Delscottio]

Does anyone ever deserve violence, rape, loss of property, loss of jobs, starvation, and deportation?

[Nick Terry]

There are other counterfactuals which are perhaps more interesting, but along the same lines.

One I have asked before is this: if the Nazis had killed only 2M Jews, what difference would this have made in real terms? Meaning, what real world consequences to the post-1945 order would this have had, in terms of international relations, US-German-EU-Israeli-East Bloc relations, reparations, postwar Displaced Persons problems, and the memory of the war?

[Stray Cat]

More to the point: what has Nazism achieved? Forget the holocaust for a moment. Let's assume it never happened. Can anybody point out to any positive achievement of Nazis? The art-deco uniform?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZ8EkK3eWY

[Simon39759]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZ8EkK3eWY


Ok, funny videos.

But still cool looking uniforms.

[Old Bob]

Rough numbers 80 million lives lost in the 2WW, why bleat over a few? is a Jew more important than a Goyim? Question - does a Jew except Goyim body parts and still be a Jew.?

[Simon39759]

WTF?


First of all, WWII losses are more in the 50 to 70 million range.

Then, nobody is pretending that the Holocaust is only about the Jews, gipsies, homosexuals, Jehovah witnesses, among other, were targeted too.

Then, the Holocaust is different from the other deaths of WWII because they were the products of a deliberate attempts.
They were not the side effect of the war or a death deemed acceptable in order to reach strategical or political objectives, they were the goal onto themselves, and, indeed, cost the Reisch many ressources it could ill afford.

[Thunder]

Rough numbers 80 million lives lost in the 2WW, why bleat over a few? is a Jew more important than a Goyim? Question - does a Jew except Goyim body parts and still be a Jew.?

do you hate Jews?

[Thunder]

Ok, funny videos.

But still cool looking uniforms.

rat's anus. hahahaha!!!

[gtc]

Rough numbers 80 million lives lost in the 2WW, why bleat over a few? is a Jew more important than a Goyim? Question - does a Jew except Goyim body parts and still be a Jew.?

At least this Queenslander knows that the word is accept not except.

[Ryokan]

More to the point: what has Nazism achieved? Forget the holocaust for a moment. Let's assume it never happened. Can anybody point out to any positive achievement of Nazis? The art-deco uniform?!

The aqueduct?

Oh, wait.... That was the Romans.

[DuckOnWarpath]

Does anyone ever deserve violence, rape, loss of property, loss of jobs, starvation, and deportation?

Thinking about it rationally and presumably indoors while safely browsing the internet, you would conclude that no one deserves such treatment.

Now forget that and try telling that to anyone that has ever committed a murder to protect his/her property. Or try it on the Bush administration and all the supporters of such practices against "terrorists". Hey, say that to the convicts that gangraped and killed one of the most publicized pederasts in Greece, who frequently raped his children. I could go on but you get the picture.

The rational and humane answer is no ~ however people are often convinced to commit such atrocities.

[SezMe]

No civilized person answers "yes" to your question. The Holocaust deniers won't be so dumb to immediately blow their cover. What's the point of this Gedankenexperiment?
Exactly. Why even entertain the premise which is just plain ludicrous. Doing so only gives a platform for the nutters.

[SezMe]

Rough numbers 80 million lives lost in the 2WW, why bleat over a few?
Right. Why concern yourself with a human being. Why does it matter that a young boy had his dreams crushed. Why does it matter that a young girl cannot grow up to be a famous doctor. Why does it matter that a mother cannot raise her children because she is dead ... and so are her children. Trifles all.

There are times when I wish JREF had a despicable turd policy...this is one.

[LONGTABBER PE]

Thinking about it rationally and presumably indoors while safely browsing the internet, you would conclude that no one deserves such treatment.

Now forget that and try telling that to anyone that has ever committed a murder to protect his/her property. Or try it on the Bush administration and all the supporters of such practices against "terrorists". Hey, say that to the convicts that gangraped and killed one of the most publicized pederasts in Greece, who frequently raped his children. I could go on but you get the picture.

The rational and humane answer is no ~ however people are often convinced to commit such atrocities.

I find that so ironic

[DuckOnWarpath]

I find that so ironic
Assuming you're talking about the bolded part, I really don't get it... What I meant was that in a safe environment and without any kind of personal/emotional bias the answer is simple. I emphasize the "safe environment" clause, because in more stressful circumstances, instinctual, gut reactions tend to take the place of reasoning.

EDIT: However people often conform to the values of the group they belong to and when a new idea is carefully marketed, it can easily be accepted by most ~ in my mind that's exactly how various groups of people are demonized.

But I still don't get the irony...

[Old Bob]

do you hate Jews?

No, only the ones that kill, lie, cheat, steal and harvest body parts. And don't forget who is behind the global meltdown that will cause death to millions, SezMe, seems you can't see the trees for the leaves,as for the despicable turd comment, blow it out your nose. Your twisting of words that I don't care about a few, a bit rude. As for the weekly holocaust bleat, they are not the only ones to get hurt and to say that's differant to just being shot or hung?

[DC]

Once you deny the holocaust, the next step would be to claim no Jews lost their homes or lives or anything else.

More to the point: what has Nazism achieved? Forget the holocaust for a moment. Let's assume it never happened. Can anybody point out to any positive achievement of Nazis? The art-deco uniform?!
http://www.fermodes.de/pictures/autonews/01127-gross.jpg

[timhau]

More to the point: what has Nazism achieved? Forget the holocaust for a moment. Let's assume it never happened. Can anybody point out to any positive achievement of Nazis? The art-deco uniform?!

Public spectacles? The Nuremberg party rallies look like a heck of a show. Rotten to the core, but a good show.

[LONGTABBER PE]

No, only the ones that kill, lie, cheat, steal and harvest body parts. And don't forget who is behind the global meltdown that will cause death to millions, SezMe, seems you can't see the trees for the leaves,as for the despicable turd comment, blow it out your nose. Your twisting of words that I don't care about a few, a bit rude. As for the weekly holocaust bleat, they are not the only ones to get hurt and to say that's differant to just being shot or hung?

Oh Well, I guess as long as there are people like you, there will have to be people like me

DE OPPRESSO LIBER

[Blackadder]

the AutoBahn system.

[Shrike]

More to the point: what has Nazism achieved? Forget the holocaust for a moment. Let's assume it never happened. Can anybody point out to any positive achievement of Nazis? The art-deco uniform?!

It has given internet users worldwide a reference to pure evil. Or put another way, what would Godwin have done? :jaw-dropp
Oh, an what DC said :D

[Shrike]

the AutoBahn system.

I was going to say that, but apparently the plans were already made by the previous government.
But seriously, our (Dutch) 'child support'.

[Simon39759]

http://www.fermodes.de/pictures/autonews/01127-gross.jpg


In fact, the beetle had been in the work since before, and the first prototype appeared in 1931.

[ddt]

But seriously, our (Dutch) 'child support'.

Modelled on the German child support. Which was basically a breeding premium to get more Aryan babies.

The Nazis also copied the German UHC system to the Netherlands. They didn't invent it - that honour goes to Bismarck.

You have to give it to them that they understood the propaganda value of modern media, and made effective use of it.

[Soapy Sam]

Here's what Naziism should have done.

It should have taught mankind that no nation and no people- however superb their record in culture and science- can be considered safe from a return to barbarism.

The Nazis were not the shame of Germany. They were the shame of humanity.

To date...

[Stray Cat]

I think that the Nazi's were also the first counterculture Goths because they loved the long black leather coat and Hitler was a pallid faced, black haired miserable looking git.

[quarky]

Imagine if the nazis had won the war. Such law and order! And more uniforms! And no gay agenda! No Seinfeld!

[ddt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland_(novel)

[Simon39759]

The man in the high castle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_man_in_the_high_castle)

[Safe-Keeper]

More to the point: what has Nazism achieved? Forget the holocaust for a moment. Let's assume it never happened. Can anybody point out to any positive achievement of Nazis? The art-deco uniform?! Scientific advancement. For instance, the V-1 buzzbomb led to the V-2 rocket, which led to...

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0309/aldrinswc_apollo11.jpg
Picture courtesy of NASA

ETA: If you mean Nazism as an ideology, damned if I know.

Rough numbers 80 million lives lost in the 2WW, why bleat over a few? is a Jew more important than a Goyim? Question - does a Jew except Goyim body parts and still be a Jew.?Did you write this frothing at the mouth?

ETA2:
Does anyone ever deserve violence, rape, loss of property, loss of jobs, starvation, and deportation? No. Not the gypsies, not the Jews killed by Nazis, not the German civilians treated horribly by the advancing Soviets, not the Kurds, not the peoples exterminated in Jewish mythology - no one.

[Chaos]

the AutoBahn system.

That wasn´t their idea. They simply took it and inflated it to megalomaniac proportions.

[timhau]

I think that the Nazi's were also the first counterculture Goths because they loved the long black leather coat and Hitler was a pallid faced, black haired miserable looking git.

http://www.digitalvomiting.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/emo_hitler-4.jpg

[dafydd]

A despicable turd policy here will get my vote.

[quarky]

Its human nature to exterminate the perceived hated minorities. The Nazis were in the right place at the right time to go so far with it, and have it so well remembered.

Its slightly worrisome that the holocaust is seen as something so utterly mad; so removed from normalcy; such an aberration; so totally yesterday; an event from which the world has finally learned its lesson.

Its what people do. We digest the available propaganda, and then we kill a bunch of people that don't look or talk like us.

Not everyday, of course. But in general.

[Old Bob]

Seeing this thread is all about "what if's", lets get to the crux of the matter. WW2 was started by England and America in 1926 by a declaration of war and Germany was pushed into it. Seeing the "City of London" is the money center run mainly by Masons and Jews perhaps people are blaming the wrong one's. It was the answer to a money crash, any eyebrows rising? The Nazi's got a lot of bad press and still do and they wern't saints, but no worse than what's happening now in Iraq, Afghanistan and don't forget Palestine. Both Jews and westerners should hang there heads in shame. If you still think there is a good reason like 911 do a bit of research.

[lionking]

From a post in another thread:

No, no Old Bob actually believes in his abilities. Just as he believes in God; that jews are responsible for many of the worlds ills; that the Port Arthur massacre was a government plot; that homosexuals spread disease and depravity; ley lines; and other things I cannot recall at the moment. Dowsing is just one of his beliefs.

He is a true omni-woo.

Should have added Holocaust denial and 9/11 CT. What about the moon landing Old Bob?
If anyone can come up with a more amazing set of beliefs, I'd like to know.

[gtc]

The Dow Jones Average was still rising in 1926 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DJIA_historical_graph_to_jan09_(log).svg). So that blows that theory out of the water.

[Retrograde]

WW2 was started by England and America in 1926 by a declaration of war and Germany was pushed into it

Huh? Now I grew up in an area that was mostly populated by 1st and 2nd generation Polish-Americans, so this might be biased or slanted, but I was taught that the German invasion of Poland on September 1, 1939 had a hand in starting WWII. I want to know more about this 1926 declaration: it might change my opinion of Calvin Coolidge over on the "Greatest President" thread.

[LONGTABBER PE]

Seeing this thread is all about "what if's", lets get to the crux of the matter. WW2 was started by England and America in 1926 by a declaration of war and Germany was pushed into it. Seeing the "City of London" is the money center run mainly by Masons and Jews perhaps people are blaming the wrong one's. It was the answer to a money crash, any eyebrows rising? The Nazi's got a lot of bad press and still do and they wern't saints, but no worse than what's happening now in Iraq, Afghanistan and don't forget Palestine. Both Jews and westerners should hang there heads in shame. If you still think there is a good reason like 911 do a bit of research.
Yeah, lets get to the crux

Explain this war in 1926 and how ( and who) pushed Germany into what

[Old Bob]

Huh? Now I grew up in an area that was mostly populated by 1st and 2nd generation Polish-Americans, so this might be biased or slanted, but I was taught that the German invasion of Poland on September 1, 1939 had a hand in starting WWII. I want to know more about this 1926 declaration: it might change my opinion of Calvin Coolidge over on the "Greatest President" thread.

In 1926 Uk and the USA signed a declaration of war on Germany, sanctions and embargo's were inplemented. I have seen a copy of the doc and it surprised me too. It was signed by King George the fifth and the president of America. Question for Lionking- how much do you get from ASIO for watching and reporting the forum?

[lionking]

In 1926 Uk and the USA signed a declaration of war on Germany, sanctions and embargo's were inplemented. I have seen a copy of the doc and it surprised me too. It was signed by King George the fifth and the president of America. Question for Lionking- how much do you get from ASIO for watching and reporting the forum?
*Sigh*

This is a skeptics forum. Post some evidence or withdraw.

[LONGTABBER PE]

In 1926 Uk and the USA signed a declaration of war on Germany, sanctions and embargo's were inplemented. I have seen a copy of the doc and it surprised me too. It was signed by King George the fifth and the president of America. Question for Lionking- how much do you get from ASIO for watching and reporting the forum?

Your statements are more FOS than a Christmas Turkey.

When in the US did the President get the authority to declare war without Congress?

Where is this "declaration"? When did Congress do it?

How was it hidden from the general press?

Where did you see it at? The National Archives? Library of Congress?

Let me guess- the Internet

[Cainkane1]

They didn't deserve that. I believe the holocost did happen.

[paximperium]

In 1926 Uk and the USA signed a declaration of war on Germany, sanctions and embargo's were inplemented. I have seen a copy of the doc and it surprised me too. It was signed by King George the fifth and the president of America. Question for Lionking- how much do you get from ASIO for watching and reporting the forum?
I love this story. Did the Martians attack the Galactic Persian Empire after this declaration of war? Why didn't the German Space Monkeys fight back? Tell us more.

[Old Bob]

Longtabber pe, your wrong. I could make a phone call and get a copy sent but I know a number of posters would say "fake" so you believe what you like, I know it's real. The management of the human race is very interesting when you can see, it's bigger than "Ben Hur"

[paximperium]

Longtabber pe, your wrong. I could make a phone call and get a copy sent but I know a number of posters would say "fake" so you believe what you like, I know it's real. The management of the human race is very interesting when you can see, it's bigger than "Ben Hur"
So that's a big NO for producing evidence?

Please tell us more about your fictional war. Were there reptoids and UFO's involved with fighting the Morlocks and dinosaurs?

[Foolmewunz]

Longtabber pe, your wrong. I could make a phone call and get a copy sent but I know a number of posters would say "fake" so you believe what you like, I know it's real. The management of the human race is very interesting when you can see, it's bigger than "Ben Hur"

Old Bob,
This is not the first time you've trotted out this nonsense. It was ripped to shreds the last time it happened, so we're going to call summary B.S. on this claim.

There is no such document. Period.

Are you conflating its existence with that headline that anti-semites like to drag out proving that "Jewry" declared war on Germany before Germany attacked anyone?

@Lionking,
Congrats! I didn't know you'd been promoted to paid shill.

[ddt]

Longtabber pe, your wrong. I could make a phone call and get a copy sent but I know a number of posters would say "fake" so you believe what you like, I know it's real. The management of the human race is very interesting when you can see, it's bigger than "Ben Hur"

You could also just point us to the minutes of the US Congress and the British House of Commons where they vote in favour of this war. They're both on-line. You know, King George didn't have the authority to declare war on his own either.

But you won't because you can't because it's all a big lie.

[paximperium]

You could also just point us to the minutes of the US Congress and the British House of Commons where they vote in favour of this war. They're both on-line. You know, King George didn't have the authority to declare war on his own either. You must not be familiar with the the soooper secret Masonic Jew Temple Council of Mars who actually controlled the robot King George and the entire world to declare war on Germans who are the one true saviors of mankind against the Jewish Reptoid threat.

It's real, Old Bob read it somewhere.

[ddt]

You must not be familiar with the the soooper secret Masonic Jew Temple Council of Mars <snip>
Tell me more about that! Where can I apply? What do I have to do to get admitted? Build an Ark out of candy bars?

[LONGTABBER PE]

Longtabber pe, your wrong. I could make a phone call and get a copy sent but I know a number of posters would say "fake" so you believe what you like, I know it's real. The management of the human race is very interesting when you can see, it's bigger than "Ben Hur"

You need to peddle your crap somewhere that people are stupid enough to believe it.

You "know" its real? Theres a laugh.

Make your phone call and post it- your bluff is called.

[lionking]

Old Bob,

@Lionking,
Congrats! I didn't know you'd been promoted to paid shill.
Shhh. My masters will not be amused if too many people realise this. Let's just keep it to you and Old Bob.

[Old Bob]

You lot are not worth the trouble of asking a old man to dig up the copy, in fact your not even worth talking to.

[lionking]

You lot are not worth the trouble of asking a old man to dig up the copy, in fact your not even worth talking to.
Using your age (only 10 years older than me) as an excuse is pathetic. My 90 year old mother has more energy than you.

Anyway, see ya. You certainly won't be missed.

[LONGTABBER PE]

You lot are not worth the trouble of asking a old man to dig up the copy, in fact your not even worth talking to.

Standard ploy of those who willingly and knowingly present false information to support a personal agenda is to run when caught in an obvious lie.

Run along and hide- truth is waiting on you.

Wait a sec, it looks like somebody got tripped up in a lie

call the WAAAAAAAAmbulance

[timhau]

You lot are not worth the trouble of asking a old man to dig up the copy, in fact your not even worth talking to.

Is that a promise?

[Slayhamlet]

You lot are not worth the trouble of asking a old man to dig up the copy, in fact your not even worth talking to.

And you're not worth listening to. Win-win opportunity here, Old Bob.

[Foolmewunz]

Yeah, lets get to the crux

Explain this war in 1926 and how ( and who) pushed Germany into what

I'm curious how that evil Masonic genius, George V, convinced a borderline isolationist like Silent Cal Coolidge to ink an agreement to fight the Weimar Republic, which was in one of the few stable years it had ever had.

I suppose in Old Bob World, he could be thinking of a twisted version of the Kellogg-Briand Pact? That was 1928 (hey, close enough, you lot!!), and was largely fruitless in preventing war, but here's the kicker, of course,.... it was later used to establish charges at Nuremberg, so I'm sure there are some screeds about it out there in broadhseetville.

[Simon39759]

I'm curious how that evil Masonic genius, George V, convinced a borderline isolationist like Silent Cal Coolidge to ink an agreement to fight the Weimar Republic, which was in one of the few stable years it had ever had.

I suppose in Old Bob World, he could be thinking of a twisted version of the Kellogg-Briand Pact? That was 1928 (hey, close enough, you lot!!), and was largely fruitless in preventing war, but here's the kicker, of course,.... it was later used to establish charges at Nuremberg, so I'm sure there are some screeds about it out there in broadhseetville.


Never heard of it (so, obviously, it never happened?).

Anyway, TO THE WIKI MACHINE!

[ddt]

I suppose in Old Bob World, he could be thinking of a twisted version of the Kellogg-Briand Pact? That was 1928 (hey, close enough, you lot!!), and was largely fruitless in preventing war, but here's the kicker, of course,.... it was later used to establish charges at Nuremberg, so I'm sure there are some screeds about it out there in broadhseetville.

But that was the charge for crimes against peace. Where's the Joo angle? (Okay, I'm being way too rational here).

[Geezer]

Longtabber pe, your wrong. I could make a phone call and get a copy sent but I know a number of posters would say "fake" so you believe what you like, I know it's real. The management of the human race is very interesting when you can see, it's bigger than "Ben Hur"

How convenient for you.
Shows us the proof or bugger off

[Geezer]

Shhh. My masters will not be amused if too many people realise this. Let's just keep it to you and Old Bob.

Psst!Can I haz some o dat monies?

[Klimax]

This sort of error I have seen for the first time and last was during an oral exam in History by my schoolmate who sort of did it for fun. (Every time after his "performance" we were half dead from laughs...)

Anyway Bob is as wrong as he could get,since my country was to be free for next 12 years. Lookup Czechoslovakia (First republic)...

[Nick Terry]

This sort of error I have seen for the first time and last was during an oral exam in History by my schoolmate who sort of did it for fun. (Every time after his "performance" we were half dead from laughs...)

Anyway Bob is as wrong as he could get,since my country was to be free for next 12 years. Lookup Czechoslovakia (First republic)...

Even by student/schoolkid howler standards, the 1926 declaration of war on Germany takes the biscuit.

Normally students just prolong Stalin's life to some time in the 1960s, or have Hitler invading the USSR in 1942. Rarely anything Stundie-worthy.

[dudalb]

So that's a big NO for producing evidence?

Please tell us more about your fictional war. Were there reptoids and UFO's involved with fighting the Morlocks and dinosaurs?

Have you considered designing computer games as a sideline? That sounds like it would make one hell of a good one....

[dafydd]

Using your age (only 10 years older than me) as an excuse is pathetic. My 90 year old mother has more energy than you.

Anyway, see ya. You certainly won't be missed.

And she has more brains.

[Simon39759]

Have you considered designing computer games as a sideline? That sounds like it would make one hell of a good one....


Ok, here is my idea for table top RPG game. It's a steampunk setting.
I write up the players' character myself, they are all famous characters picked up from history. Jules Vernes, Tesla, Marie Curie, Sigmund Freud, Abraham Lincoln... And such.
They are recruited by a NPC to prevent a time travelling villain to rewrite history so that the third Reich wins.

The final battle at the end of the campaign happens on Normandy's beaches during D Day when the players must make their way to the villains bunker. There, they are ambushed by T-rex, wearing nazi arm-band and a machine gun on their back!
It will be awesome!

[lionking]

And she has more brains.

My kitchen sink does.

[dafydd]

Seeing this thread is all about "what if's", lets get to the crux of the matter. WW2 was started by England and America in 1926 by a declaration of war and Germany was pushed into it. Seeing the "City of London" is the money center run mainly by Masons and Jews perhaps people are blaming the wrong one's. It was the answer to a money crash, any eyebrows rising? The Nazi's got a lot of bad press and still do and they wern't saints, but no worse than what's happening now in Iraq, Afghanistan and don't forget Palestine. Both Jews and westerners should hang there heads in shame. If you still think there is a good reason like 911 do a bit of research.

The Nazi's weren't saints,that must be the understatement of the millenium! In which parallel universe was WW2 started by America and England in 1926? Can you feed yourself?

[linusrichard]

Wait, "Ben Hur"?

[LONGTABBER PE]

The Nazi's weren't saints,that must be the understatement of the millenium! In which parallel universe was WW2 started by America and England in 1926? Can you feed yourself?

I found it. They were caught on film

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/261034aa004875567d.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17453)

[dafydd]

I found it. They were caught on film

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/261034aa004875567d.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17453)

Ah,that's why Old Bob was confused.

[uruk]

More to the point: what has Nazism achieved? Forget the holocaust for a moment. Let's assume it never happened. Can anybody point out to any positive achievement of Nazis? The art-deco uniform?!

The Nazis brought Germany out of the abject poverty and economic collapse of post WWI to
the world's most powerful, technologicaly advanced country for one brief moment in history.
The cost was Jewish slave labor and "lebensraum".

The War caused by Hitler and the Nazis also left the U.S. as one of the most powerful countries on the planet with the atomic bomb and a fattened economy due to lend lease.

Then there's all that medical data we accumulated on the effects of starvation and altitude on the body. We still use that info today. All this at the price of millions of Jews.

Not to mention the work of Werner Von Braun without whom we never would have reached the moon.

[Moss]

Maybe Old Bob is speaking of Germany must Perish! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_Must_Perish)(which is way too late) or Judea declares War on Germany (http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar11.html) which is also too late.
And both are a negligible influences to both Allies and Nazis.

[ddt]

Maybe Old Bob is speaking of Germany must Perish! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_Must_Perish)(which is way too late) or Judea declares War on Germany (http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar11.html) which is also too late.
And both are a negligible influences to both Allies and Nazis.

Morgenthau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau_Plan) was a Jew too! (I know, also too late).

[McHrozni]

Can anybody point out to any positive achievement of Nazis?

VW Beetle? :)

McHrozni

[ddt]

Can anybody point out to any positive achievement of Nazis?

The tactical retreat? I guess it's time for the lame jokes...

What's the difference between Hitler and a clock?

The clock says tic-tac, tic-tac and runs forward.
Hitler says tactic, tactic and runs backward.

[fourtoe]

VW Beetle? :)

McHrozni

Nah, someone posted earlier in this thread that they had the idea before 1931.

ETA: here is the post:
In fact, the beetle had been in the work since before, and the first prototype appeared in 1931.

[Moss]

The tactical retreat? I guess it's time for the lame jokes...


The nazis or better Hitler didn't value the tactical retreat. On the contrary, he declared some cities to have the Festungs- or fortress status so that it should be defended to the last man. Talk about a waste of life and squandering of manpower.

[Doc Daneeka]

Can anybody point out to any positive achievement of Nazis?

They did provide one very important service. They gave us something concrete to point to whenever we need a gold standard for human evil.

Also, they finally put paid to the toothbrush mustache as a fashion accessory.

[CORed]

Once you deny the holocaust, the next step would be to claim no Jews lost their homes or lives or anything else.

More to the point: what has Nazism achieved? Forget the holocaust for a moment. Let's assume it never happened. Can anybody point out to any positive achievement of Nazis? The art-deco uniform?!

The VW Beetle. I can't think of anything else, though.

[zooterkin]

Also, they finally put paid to the toothbrush mustache as a fashion accessory.

Well, apart from Ron Mael of Sparks.

[dann]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland_(novel)
The man in the high castle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_man_in_the_high_castle)

The Iron Dream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Dream) (Norman Spinrad)

[Doc Daneeka]

Well, apart from Ron Mael of Sparks.

Huh. It takes a brave (or perhaps a stupid) man to wear such a thing these days.

[McHrozni]

Nah, someone posted earlier in this thread that they had the idea before 1931.

The Nazis finished the design and put forward the initial production. I'd say it was ~90% their achievement. Before I'm accused of being their supporter or something: they were at least 99% evil and nothing excuses their crimes.

McHrozni